General Cycling Discussion - got hit

Riding home down a nice street about a mile and a half to go when i see a kid,about 12 coming down his drivway,head down,full speed and looks up when he gets to me as i am trying to get out of the way.He hits me square in the rear derailleur.He goes down but is ok.I stay up and my wheel wont turn,brake is all the way on one side and the der is snaped of with part of the arm of the frame still bolted in.Stays might be bent to.We cant pay he says.We dont have any money.I say i dont either and now i dont have a bike so we need to do something.Grandma was nice and gave me his dads name and number and said call after 5pm.Should they pay?

i think so and give the kid a lesson on safety

Brendon

Bummer! I think they should pay!

Glad you and the kid aren't hurt. I'd definitely call the Dad with all the details. Not sure you can make them pay, so some personality might be your best plan.

Good luck...keep us posted.

Don't hold your breath awaiting payment. I'd start saving money toward a new bike. In the meantime, take the bike to your LBS and get an estimate of the damage. Maybe you can get it fixed well enough to get by until you can afford another bike.

You say that the rear der snapped off with part of the frame. Was that a replaceable der hanger? If so, you may have an easier repair.

Originally posted by shokhead
Should they pay?

In a word - yes.

Definately YES!!! If dad is in local area take him to small claims court it will cost you next to nothing. I agree take it to your LBS and get estimate, turned it into a fixed gear! No rear derailleur needed.

Yep, the snot should pay.

And his father should do it and make the kid do extra chores for the rest of the summer to make up the money paid for your bike.

It's irresponsibe of the kid, and since it belongs to his dad, his dad is responsible for paying for the kid.

Get your money, stand firm, and take it to court if you have to.

Koffee

Got off the phone with dad and said i ride at my own risk and he might consider paying half up to $100 bucks and i can take it or leave it.Said no one saw what happened and its his son's word against mine and some highschool kid isnt getting money out of him.I said mr -----------------,i'm 50 years old and live a mile from here with my wife of 27 years and two teenage daughters.What are you talking about.I'm going my what my mother said and saw as she talked to you.Your 50.Yes.Oh.Can i see the bike.Yes.He will come buy tomorrow.JERK

Sue him for all he's worth, what a piece of ****.

Get his name, number and address, and then go to small claims court and drop paperwork on him and sue him for the cost of fixing the bike. He should be paying the FULL cost of fixing or replacing the bike- any judge (even the clueles ones) knows that the child was irresponsible and the parent is financially responsible for repaying the debt that the child created.

Get the estimate for the repair or to get it replaced, stop by state court small claims court and fill out the necessary paperwork and the complaint, then pay the sheriff to serve the paperwork on the dumb bastard.

Name the kid in the complaint as a co-defendant.

The United States IS a litigious society- but look at the dumb ***** we have to put up with over here. :rolleyes:

When the guy comes over, btw, tell him if you'd been driving a car and hit the kid, is it the same stupid conclusion that if the kid gets hurt, killed, etc. that it's it's the kid's risk to be riding in his own neighborhood, and if no one saw you hit the kid, you're not responsible, take it or leave it?

Sometimes you have to use analogies as stupid as this for people as dumb as this guy obviously is.

Go outside right now and take as many pics of the bike as possible, and get a pic of the location of where you got hit when you were on your bike, and try to get as many different shots as possible. And if you have a camcorder, try to videotape the exchange between you and this stupid fool tomorrow (hide it someplace in the garage and have the dunce come to your garage to see the damage of the bike so you can get the reaction of the guy and any admission he may make).

Keep us updated.

K

Took pics and called him to set up a time.Lfet a message but no return call.I'm taking it in tomorrow no matter what.

Cool. Check with the police too and see if you can file a report against the kid. It's a vehicular accident as far as I'm concerned. If you can get the police to file a report on the incident, it will only help your case even more.

Good luck.

Koffee

It costs virtualy nothing to file a claim against him in small claims court.. and to serve him you can actualy have a friend do it. Anyone that is not related to you or him (if I remember correctly).. and he will be out full cost of the repair plus the court costs.

If he does not return your call or come see you're bike definately take it to court, if he does show up have a written estimate to show him, or if you do get it reparied take before pictures and keep copy of the receipt so you can show that to him and the court.

May not hurt to have two estimates. (Thinking I watch too much Judge Judy. :rolleyes: )

I'm not juding your decision to sue or otherwise, however from a completely foreign perspective the reaction from most people here is simply amazing for me (which is not necessarily a bad thing).

If riding home I ran into a kid who was behaving irresponsibly and it resulted in damage to the bike I would be damned glad that neither person was seriously hurt and think about being more careful in the future wherever I went.

I'd certainly discuss the matter with the parents and the kid from a safety perspective and get serious, imagine if it was a car etc etc...

Maybe its my innocence and lack of being in your environment and particular circumstances but I would be very surprised that an amiable and reasonable agreement couldn't be arranged with respects to costs.

If you had been driving a motorvehicle within the legal speed limits; and the child on the bicycle collided with the car in the situation you described above was seriously injured resulting in dented panelwork would you sue for the repair costs?

Anyhow, I wish you the best of luck however you proceed.

Come down to Australia, lay down your arms, leave your doors unlocked and hug a tree :)

Originally posted by AdrianB
Maybe its my innocence and lack of being in your environment and particular circumstances but I would be very surprised that an amiable and reasonable agreement couldn't be arranged with respects to costs.

Adrian, I think the best outcome for both parties is to reach an agreement without having to go any further. America is a sue-happy country, so it seems, but in this case, I believe if things can't be worked out amicably, court may be the way to go. This guy has already back-peddled (;) ) when he found out Shokhead wasn't in High School, so I bet they come to a reasonable agreement. I just thought having two estimates might make the Father more likely to understand that ONE isn't a rip-off from your bike friend that owns the shop (probably his next arguement). ;)

Personally, I'd weigh up the cost of repairs v. the potential revengy factor, heartache and antagonism of suing the kid and his folks that could result. The old man seems an aggro type - I'm not much into aggravating aggro types that drive when I'm a humble little bike rider just doing my thing to and from work. The kid might need a smack behind the ear - maybe its worth letting his karma sort him out.

I don't understand the father's point of view. As a parent, I would feel obligated to pay for anything my son did. It is part of being a responsible parent. Like everyone is saying, if he can't be a responsible parent, let the courts make him be a responsible parent. Good luck.

i guess some people need it in simpler terms, I mean look at it this way, lets say you were both in cars? and the kid had just gotten his learner's permit. What then? I mean really now.

If that was my kid, I would definitely feel responsible and obligated to take care of damages without being asked. Almost analogous to if my kid broke a neighbors window playing baseball. The parent needs to set a good example to the kid. What happened to personal responsibility.

Anyway, I'm in L.A..........so where exactly does this guy live???

The bike is going into the shop today,where i bought it.I'll try talking to the guy but either way it has to be fixed.There is good news.My wife say no small claims,thats stupit.Get him to pay or forget it.Then she made a BIG mistake.Maybe you should go down and go ahead and get your new bike.Does that mean when i have a new one in the garage,she cant give me ,well you know that married look.Well i guess she still could.She really would if she saw the bill but i'll pay cash and she doesnt need to know.Either way i am still upset about my bike and not being able to ride.

The thing that makes me so outraged is that the kid is actually LYING about what happened, not taking responsibility for what he's done, and his parents are coddling him and not taking responsibility for the kid's actions.

First and foremost, the kid needs to be held accountable for what he did- and that includes the lying. If we let these snot nosed brats run around destroying property and lying at will, what kind of future society are we creating? These brats are our future, and if they're gonna be in charge someday, I'd hate to see what our world is going to evolve into!

Second, the parent needs to punish the child- parents these days have so little regard for the world around them, and they bring kids into this world but do nothing to guide them or teach them right from wrong. And the parent needs to set an example for the kid so the kid can learn something about MORALITY- the parent should pay for the bike after looking at the damage and receiving an estimate.

Finally, the parent should make that kid APOLOGIZE for what he did- and the kid needs to do some additional penance while he's at it- extra chores around the house, grounding, etc. Bring it home for the kid so that he understands that what he did was wrong, and perhaps in the future, the kid won't do something stupid like... say... drink and drive and maybe kill someone while driving under the influence? I know this is a bit of a stretch for an example, but when kids are continually allowed to get away with things, it could snowball into something worse and worse until the kid grows up and ends up doing something really bad because they weren't taught right from wrong or punished when they did something wrong. :rolleyes:

Maybe in Australia they can hug a tree or something, but while they're hugging trees, we'll be disciplining kids so that they don't continue to repeat their mistakes.

Koffee

P.S. Get the old bike fixed anyway. I know I would be personally destroyed if my beater bike got banged up and was just sitting there, even if I got a shiny new racing bike. That bike is my baby!

be sure to tell his dad you could have been a car.

The kid did say how sorry he was and so did the grandma so it seems the dad is the hard case.

Well given the fact that the child's guardian will not take responsibility for the damages, I think you either eat the damage yourself or seek a legal remedy.

I would strongly suggest filing a claim in small claims court. It isn't hard to do. You just go down to your county court house and pick up the forms, fill em out and plunk down a small fee in the process about $50.

I did this once against a tenant who skipped out on me and owed some back rent and this was a commercial situation so I could go after the firm involved. They just did not WANT to pay the rent. And they had to cough it up.

Sounds to me that you have a very very similar situation here. I suppose that they could claim that the accident never happened and that you dreamed the whole thing up. But most people can not do a bald faced lie convincingly and I would think the judge would be mighty suspicious of such a "defense". Just have documentation on the damages involved on your bike and possibly a witnessed written statement from the LBS mechanic that the damages on the bike are consistent with your account of the accident.

Originally posted by AdrianB

If riding home I ran into a kid who was behaving irresponsibly and it resulted in damage to the bike I would be damned glad that neither person was seriously hurt and think about being more careful in the future wherever I went.


Well,

I agree with you that the most important thing is no-one was hurt, but I don't think you understood the situation presented.

Shokhead was riding along minding his own business and was hit from the side by an inattentive child. In other words, he didnt run into anybody, he was ran into.

Now, you may have a point that taking it further might be more headache than any money recovered is worth, but that doesn't get the kid or their parents out of a moral responsibility to be accountable for their negligent actions.

I guess maybe nobody takes responsibility for hurt they cause down there in AU, but I dont buy that, as I have a friend living in Denmark, Western AU, and he would have told me about something like that.

take care,

Jester

Originally posted by Aggressor
Or be sure to tell him that next time, you WILL be a car ;)

I know you put a smiley there, but don't even go there, threatening the life of someone is a good way to get in deep doo-doo. No bicycle is worth that.

Your joke wasn't even particularly funny to me, but maybe i'm a stick in the mud. Oh, and I don't even particularly like kids, so its not a "who will think of the children" kinda thing either.

peas,

Jester

I'm not out to rustle anyone's feathers. But the kid obviously wasnt looking, or in control, perhaps his feathers need to be rustled to realise the dangers of even running into another cyclist.

Your negative comments toward my obvious joke arent really neccessary.

Originally posted by Aggressor
I'm not out to rustle anyone's feathers. But the kid obviously wasnt looking, or in control, perhaps his feathers need to be rustled to realise the dangers of even running into another cyclist.

Your negative comments toward my obvious joke arent really neccessary.

You say my comments weren't neccecary, I say they were.

Rustling someones feathers by threatening to kill them, is a bad idea. If you want to joke like that thats your perogative, but its my perogative not to like it. I felt obliged to point out death threats are a bad idea in case anyone took you seriously. (Not at all likely, but hey its a free country and I'll say what I believe to be true here unless asked to chill by a moderator.)

anyhow, just MHO and i'll stick by it. You obviously have a different opinion and that is fine.

take care,

Jester

I didnt threaten to kill anyone, my comment was an obvious joke. I think you should heed your own advice and chill.

Peace.

It was an accident! Unlike cars, bikes are quiet. I still think the kid can learn a lesson without everyone involved being nasty. I believe that if you get nasty, threaten legal action and the like, the kid will learn the wrong lesson. The lesson should be to pay attention, take responsibility for your actions and resolve problems in a responsible manner. He may end up learning how to lie his way out of getting in trouble with his parents and the law, and continue to be a biking menace. A little personality goes a long way. People can make mistakes and learn from them. It often happens that good can come out of a bad situation...for all involved.

My parents would have made me drain my piggy bank, then made me work off the rest. When the kid across the street and I busted a bunch of glass down the street, I had to swallow my pride and take all my money with me to apologize and pay off the neighbor. It was hard, but I think it was good for me.

The father is the problem. But kids need to be more responsible.

Originally posted by Koffee Brown

Maybe in Australia they can hug a tree or something, but while they're hugging trees, we'll be disciplining kids so that they don't continue to repeat their mistakes.


I agree with your sentiments here Koffee completely. Discuss, discipline, etc. But where does the suing come into it? There's a way to ensure people learn from their mistakes and deception and the like without hiding video cameras and issuing papers.

However I'm sure you're just talking about standing up for your rights which is very important.

I'll go away now. :)

Sorry to hear about that my friend, and i hope all gets sorted, if this kid doesnt learn his lesson now, he certainly will some day.

:rolleyes: And people ask why i dont ever want children.

I'm glad to hear that the kid, and especially you are alright. I have been witness to many crashes in my local bike group (mostly dog related) and it always sucks for both the biker and the other participant in the crash.

The kid did the right thing by apologizing, however I can;t seem to think that <b>you</b> got the short end of the stick, when it seems to be more of the kids fault than yours. It certaintly isn't right for you to be stuck with a busted bike with no reparations, however I agree with your wife and just forget about the court. But if I were in your shoes, I would atleast let the Father have a piece of my mind.

Good luck with your new bike, and ride safely!

my two cents:

i don't understand how if the kid was going full speed, and hit you square in the rear derailluer, you didn't fall down too. the kid fell down, and obviously struck you with enough force to break your frame...that should have knocked you down, unless you slowed down enough that you could catch yourself, in which case, you made the wrong decision...anyway...

i think the kid should have been paying attention, and the parents should have to pay some of the cost, not all. if you saw the kid before you got to where he hit you, you could have avoided it, especially since he hit the rear end of your bike. i'm not saying you're in the wrong or not attentive, but it probably could have been avoided if you had anticipated a collision. it also would have been avoided if the little snot had been paying attention, but hey, the kid is 12, and kids screw up sometimes, it's not like he broke your leg or something...

if it was me, i'd be pissed, but i'd take it to a shop BEFORE calling the guy to make sure any repairs would be worth charging the family for. also so you can say to the guy positively what needs to happen. a broken derailluer hanger is not worth the hassle, and not really worth going to small claims court. if you have to get a new frame, then i'd say make them pay at least 3/4 of it for being neglegent parents, but don't blame the kid. if the derailuer isn't replacable, you can always get one of those stamped steel "feet" that attach via the QR (they used them a lot on cheap road bikes in the 70s and 80s) that will hold the rear derailluer just fine it might not be the coolest thing, but it'll work...of course you'll probably have to get a new dreailluer too, which i would make them pay for some of, and really drive it home that the kid shouldn't be out in the street and there should have been someone watching him. make them feel bad in their hearts, not in their wallets.

oh yeah, the comment "tell them next time you will be a car" wasn't funny to me either. there are some things you just don't joke about.

I'm riding down the street,about 10-12 mph and just as i get to a parked van on my right,i see this kid at the top of his drivway,head down on a bmx and starts going down the driveway as i reach the back of the parked van.Not being able to see him and not knowing if he saw me or is going onto the sidewalk or street,i start to coast and go a little to my left and like a bolt of lighting he comes blasting down from around the front of the van,looks up just as he is turning into me,about the middle of the road.His front wheel hits me in the rear der,snaps it off the hanger as i am brakeing and putting my feet down.He goes down but had lost most of the speed when he hit me.What did i do wrong?Anyway,the lbs said it looks like its just a turing of rim and replacing hanger,around 50-60 bucks but he still needed to check frame.Dad wont return and of my calls now and i havent gotten mad or said anything negitive.I'll just let it go and be happy i get of cheap.The question is do i still ride down the same block that i have been using and seeing the same people and saying hello to for 5 years?

If it were me, I'd continue riding down the street, but I wouldn't bother with them personally. They've proven that they're not good people, and folks like that I wouldn't waste the energy talking or acknowledging.

How they could feel comfortable looking you in the eye after that would surprise me.

I'd just get their address and send them a copy of the repair bill and your address. If they send you some reimbursement, be glad. If not, move on. Life's too short to argue over $50.00

I would continue to ride your route. Don't be uncomfortable, you're not the one in the wrong. The more they see you them more uncomfortable THEY should feel. Maybe to the point of sending you some money!

L8R

I agree, a2! Keep riding by the house after sending them a copy of the repair costs. Too bad the Father won't return your calls...what a wuss.

good show that it only ended up costing 50-60 buckeroonies. i'd keep riding the same route. if your first post you made it sound like he hit you at a 90 degree angle, which i guess he didn't. now i can understand why you didn't get knocked down.