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I usually go up to a stoplight, look and if nobody is coming I run it. I know a lot of other bikers do it too. It is technically illegal right? I've even done it right in front of cops (unknowingly, usually I wait if I see one) but they haven't stopped me, so maybe its just not enforced. Stop signs I usually roll through if no one is their just as I would in a car.
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I don't run reds. I wait for the green. Good trackstand practice.
No I don't, but I did almost run over a biker who was running a light, while I was drivng my car. He stopped hard and fell over when he didn't unclip. He said " I looked and didn't see anybody coming"
No here too. Our local bike/ped discussion group is talking about this subject right now too. I didn't know this until a few days ago, but Idaho has a law on the books effectively allowing cyclists to treat stop signs as yields and red lights as stop signs.
NC has no such law, just fyi.
Only once in awhile on a Sunday morning at 7:00a when there is no traffic. 98% of the time I stop, now stop signs, that is another story.
I've done it I think twice. I have seen lots of cyclists do it at this one intersection along my route. Usually no, though. I run stop SIGNS if there's no traffic.
I pretend to stop at all stop signs. The optics are good enough that I was unticketed when I pretended to stop directly in front of a cop doing a stopsign blitz this morning. The car behind me was dinged.
I find creative ways around red lights if delay is excessive, but I never *run* them really.
I stop or slow way down, make sure the coast is clear, then go. Much like we legally do when we "right turn on red after stop."
I don't. Rights and responsibilities.
If I need the light to cross, and it's obviously not triggering for me, then I'll go.
I usually go up to a stoplight, look and if nobody is coming I run it. I know a lot of other bikers do it too. It is technically illegal right? I've even done it right in front of cops (unknowingly, usually I wait if I see one) but they haven't stopped me, so maybe its just not enforced. Stop signs I usually roll through if no one is their just as I would in a car.
Do you do it in a car?
No.
Just last week a cyclist ran the red light from the x-street as I was making a left turn into same x-street. We nearly collided, I made a last second swerve to cut behind them.
I saw them approaching and slowing for the red light. I didn't expect them to continue and had put focus on potential oncoming traffic - they apparently expected me to wait even though there was no oncoming traffic for me to wait for or didn't 'see' me as they were looking for motor vehicles. While cycling I encounter more close calls with cyclists than with motorists running lights.
Al
Do you do it in a car?
I did stop and go's at no less than 10 red lights on my way to work this morning.
I stop and look ... if it is a big intersection on a busy road, I'll wait, no matter what. If it is on a country road, and have a clean view, and I am sure there is nothing coming, I'll roll through.
I was riding behind a friend, some years ago, and he blew through an intersection ... POW!! Bounced off the windshield and onto the sidewalk before my eyes ... luckily, all he had were some stitches and a mild concussion. I even slow down and look when I have the right-of-way at an intersection.
Red means 'stop if you feel like it', so do what you want, everyone else does, just don't complain when some driver does it and tags you.
I swear too many cyclists are no different than the drivers they gripe about...impatient, rude and incompetent.
I drive my bike the same way I drive my car.... under the speed limit, and stopping for all red lights...
I said I would never go through red lights. Then, one day, I went through two red lights after stopping and waiting for about 15 seconds. It felt really weird so I don't do it anymore.
I stop at all red lights. The only time I will run a light is if there is no traffic at all and I am stopped at a light that is actuated by sensors in the pavement that my bike will not activate. Nothing irritates other road users more than running stoplights. Everyone (motorists included) only make rolling stops at stopsigns but a traffic light is another thing entirely. In May, I got clobbered by a joker running a red on another bike who was too damned lazy to apply his brakes.
Red means 'stop if you feel like it', so do what you want, everyone else does, just don't complain when some driver does it and tags you.
I swear too many cyclists are no different than the drivers they gripe about...impatient, rude and incompetent.
I agree that most drivers and cyclists are equally indifferent of the law.
But in response to your first comment, "breaking the HTA" and "breaking the HTA and killing or maiming someone as a direct result" are not comparable offences. It might be the only difference is dumb luck, but not in the courtroom, and I think a 'right to complain' is the least of the things that are warranted.
I don't. Rights and responsibilities.
well said.
No way.
Stop at stop lights.
Stop or rolling stop at signs.
Never blow thru at full speed.
I only proceed after stopping at a red if I have given the signal plenty of time to cycle and am convinced that the signal sensor cannot detect me and no other drivers are around to trip it. In this case I treat it as a stop sign.
I don't assume that the signal is insensitive each time I return to the intersection. I've seen a number of insensitive sensors that have been readjusted to detect me. I always wait and give it a generous chance.
I ignore all intersection control devices and only go when it is safe and when doing so, I do not interfere at all with other traffic.
So, when I approach an interesction and the light for me is red, I look, if there is no traffic, I proceed without stopping.
Likewise, when I approach an intersection and the light for me is green, but there is traffic, I will very carefully guage the traffic and make sure I position myself so that no left turning or right turning traffic can hit me, and slow down or stop to avoid getting myself in a dangerous situation.
I think it's time for the joke again.
Two guys riding in a car. They approach a red light and the driver goes right thru without slowing down. The passenger thinks, "Maybe he didn't see it", and doesn't say anything.
They approach another red light and again go right thru. The passenger says, "Hey, you went right through that red light."
"My brother drives like this all the time", the driver says.
Now they approach a green light, and the driver slows and stops in front of it. "What are you doing?" asks the passenger. "The light's green!"
"My brother might be coming the other way."
I almost always stop. The once or twice I ran it was when I just couldn't trip the sensor on the road.
I almost always stop. The once or twice I ran it was when I just couldn't trip the sensor on the road.
the other day i was on a 2-lane street and approached a 4-lane busy state route; there was a light and i had the red.
i was first to the light, and did not trip the sensor. very aggravating to wait through to the next time around, when i got a green (either due to light programming or the car that pulled up and turned right from next to me, i don't know).
in some places there are laws that state you can proceed after x number of cycles if you don't get a green due to a sensor not sensing you. i've heard even motorcycles can experience this. i don't know CT laws on this one. in any case, no way i was going to cross that particular road with a red.
i generally obey lights, and even make a show of stopping at some stop signs; as has been stated, a good chance to do a track stand.
Red means 'stop if you feel like it', so do what you want, everyone else does, just don't complain when some driver does it and tags you.
I swear too many cyclists are no different than the drivers they gripe about...impatient, rude and incompetent.
150-300 pounds of bike and bicyclist are a minimum threat to the safety of automobiles at an intersection.
Do you ever right turn on red after stop? If so why?
Is it rude to stop or slow and go if nobody is coming?
I stop at all red lights. The only time I will run a light is if there is no traffic at all and I am stopped at a light that is actuated by sensors in the pavement that my bike will not activate. Nothing irritates other road users more than running stoplights. Everyone (motorists included) only make rolling stops at stopsigns but a traffic light is another thing entirely. In May, I got clobbered by a joker running a red on another bike who was too damned lazy to apply his brakes.
+1 - around here we have many lights that are activated by motion sensors mounted above the light itself and a cyclist sometimes isn't big enough to activate the change. On my Sunday morning ride there is one intersection I'll go through after I stop for the red (a left turn only lane) but only after completely stopping and seeing NO traffic in sight anywhere.
150-300 pounds of bike and bicyclist are a minimum threat to the safety of automobiles at an intersection.
That's a poor rationalization, and it only makes sense if all motorists will make no attempt to avoid you. The problem from the motorist's standpoint comes when he actually does try to avoid you and causes a wreck.
Many, many accidents occur when Party A does something stupid, causing Party B to swerve without having time to do anything but react, causing a chain reaction between Parties B, C, D....etc. Or sending the guy into a telephone pole. Often, Party A is completely unscathed, yet the damage is his fault.
I can't tell you how many cyclist injuries and fatalities we have around here from people who "thought" the intersection was clear.
150-300 pounds of bike and bicyclist are a minimum threat to the safety of automobiles at an intersection.
Do you ever right turn on red after stop? If so why?
Is it rude to stop or slow and go if nobody is coming?
How about peds, pets and critters? How about that motorist who hurts themselves or others avoiding you?
Right on red is legal...unless otherwise posted...at least here.
You are a vehicle on the road, thus you obey the same laws, rules and conventions. While we DO bend or break them for good reason...your convenience is not a good reason. If the red won't change and it's safe to do so, great...but otherwise, wait for the light, like a good citizen does. Do you understand the concept of respect for the law as it relates to civilized society...or are you of the 'monkey-see, monkey-do, what's good for me is all I do', crowd?
I can't tell you how many cyclist injuries and fatalities we have around here from people who "thought" the intersection was clear.
+1 Same goes for motorists and peds.
How about peds, pets and critters? How about that motorist who hurts themselves or others avoiding you?
Right on red is legal...unless otherwise posted...at least here.
You are a vehicle on the road, thus you obey the same laws, rules and conventions. While we DO bend or break them for good reason...your convenience is not a good reason. If the red won't change and it's safe to do so, great...but otherwise, wait for the light, like a good citizen does. Do you understand the concept of respect for the law as it relates to civilized society...or are you of the 'monkey-see, monkey-do, what's good for me is all I do', crowd?
For the same reason you feel safe taking a right turn on red after stop, I feel safe going straight or left after I stop. It's not that hard to look both ways and proceed when safe. I do that even when the light is green.
Unless you are Saint Chipcom, you are like 95% of the rest of society and are willing to creep above the speed limit and not come to a complete stop on a regular basis. If you are one of the very rare breed of people who never or even rarely ever infracts a law, please accept my apologies. And please keep right except to pass. Those slow movers in the left lane really get on my nerves.
For the same reason you feel safe taking a right turn on red after stop, I feel safe going straight or left after I stop. It's not that hard to look both ways and proceed when safe. I do that even when the light is green.
Unless you are Saint Chipcom, you are like 95% of the rest of society and are willing to creep above the speed limit and not come to a complete stop on a regular basis. If you are one of the very rare breed of people who never or even rarely ever infracts a law, please accept my apologies. And please keep right except to pass. Those slow movers in the left lane really get on my nerves.
So you don't understand the concept of law and it's relationship to a civilized society. A simple no would have sufficed, rather than a two paragraph dodge.
So you don't understand the concept of law and it's relationship to a civilized society. A simple no would have sufficed, rather than a two paragraph dodge.
Yes Saint chipcom I do understand the concept of law and its importance to a functional civilized society. I also know that when I am driving to work at 3:30 in the morning and there are no other cars for miles, that it's not going to make any difference whether or not I give my turn signal.
I live by the Golden Rule and it has served me well for a long time.
I stop at a redlight unless making a right in which case if I'm up front I'll slow to a crawl to see if there's any oncoming traffic from the left or ahead as well as any crazy that crossed over from the right into the oncomming lanes ;)
We can take a right on red here unless posted.
If I sat at a light a long time with zero traffic around... I'd probably just either ride on through or hop off and wall across using the cross walk. But most lights seem easy enough to trigger once you learn the sweet spots and look for the lines in the road. Even without the lines is usually a certain spot in the line for everywhere around here.
For the same reason you feel safe taking a right turn on red after stop, I feel safe going straight or left after I stop. It's not that hard to look both ways and proceed when safe. I do that even when the light is green.
If the local jurisdiction thought that was sufficient, I'm sure they would have put in a stop sign instead of a light, which is much more expensive. If the light's not working, that's another matter. If it is, you can wait 15 bleeping seconds.
Never, unless there are no cars around to set the light to turn green. Then I have to run a red; else I'd be stuck there all night; this usually happens past 10 or 11 or so. Riding when you're the only one out is awesome. :D
Do you run stoplights?
Never.
At stop signs, however, I tend to do a slow, rolling stop, because I perceive most motorsts can't detect such a small degree of rolling (I often stop pedaling, too, for effect.)
The bottom line is, does traffic understand your intentions? Do you flow with it? Do you yield properly? :)
At 4-ways, I "stop" early. As they see me "stop," as I anticipate my turn to go. As soon as my turn comes, I start pedaling again (from several feet behind the stop, as I'm slowly creeping towards the stop line) and everyone knows it's my turn. I think they get it that I can't balance very long without rolling a bit.
Working with everyone else is easy and most people know what your intentions are, if you make them clear.
Do you run stoplights?
Never.
Not anymore, at least.
Stop at stop lights.
Stop or rolling stop at signs.
Never blow thru at full speed.
+1
Only when it is legal to do so.
I don't "run" them, but there's 2 tight left turns on my commute home where I start out early when clear.
Both are on roads with 2 narrow lanes and by leaving early I don't have to take the lane and slow anyone down, nor do I have to watch for being squeezed.
I should clarify, by run I mean stop at the light, look both ways and if no one is in site go.
I don't. Rights and responsibilities.
If I need the light to cross, and it's obviously not triggering for me, then I'll go.
What about when its green, but not on the 'you may cross' light?
What about when its green, but not on the 'you may cross' light?
If the intersection is detecting me, I handle it just like I would in a car.
No here too. Our local bike/ped discussion group is talking about this subject right now too. I didn't know this until a few days ago, but Idaho has a law on the books effectively allowing cyclists to treat stop signs as yields and red lights as stop signs.
NC has no such law, just fyi.
I really wish this approach was national. It seems to be working for Idaho: http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/25/is-idaho-style-stop-sign-law-the-way-to-go/
Ugh.
Verrrry, very rarely - and only if I'm in extreme circumstances like in the middle of a torrential rainstorm/snowstorm and it's freaking bad out and I NEED to GET OFF THE road for my own safety. I'm the poster child of doing the right thing. This is an Advocacy post, right? We're supposed to be acting like a regular vehicle on the road, right? We need to act like a legal vehicle on the road (because we are) in order to be respected as one.
Generally, I use red lights as an opportunity to practice my track stand. I find it fun to see how long I can sit with my gaze upwards on the signal. You get pretty good at it with practice.
We have one intersection that is a T. The road is four lanes with a wide painted center turn only lane and the shoulder is wider than the width of a car. When I am proceeding along the top of the T so that the only other traffic possible is oncoming or from my left, I will sometimes run that red if there is no traffic coming into the intersection from my left.
But, those types of intersections are relatively rare. I stop for and observe all other red lights, and would generally do so at any time of day.
I am not, however, going to sit here and preach about how irreverent (or how low a citizen) another rider is if he/she chooses not to wait for a light at 3:00 AM when there is not another sound within earshot, let alone another car in sight.
Some of these sorts of discussions invoke my memories of those sci-fi flicks from yesteryear where some guy awakes to discover that he is the only surviving human for as far as the eye can see. I do believe there are "advocates" here who, in that situation, would move through town on foot or on bike, stopping and waiting for every light and observing every "walk/don't walk" sign in town.
I simply don't thump the rule book that hard, but, I also don't ride around thinking that my vision is so good, my awareness so keen, and my judgement so sound that I can circumvent traffic lights on a regular basis.
Caruso
We have one intersection that is a T. The road is four lanes with a wide painted center turn only lane and the shoulder is wider than the width of a car. When I am proceeding along the top of the T so that the only other traffic possible is oncoming or from my left, I will sometimes run that red if there is no traffic coming into the intersection from my left.
Caruso
Same here. I stop/slow, look left for cross traffic, and proceed if there is none (never know when some drunk is gonna come plowing straight through going too fast to turn). What's interesting is that there is a limit line across the left hand turn lane and both of the full sized through lanes, but it stops at the bike lane stripe, so the bike lane does not have a painted limit line. To me this implies bicycles are not required to stop, since there is no chance of a vehicle legally crossing the bike lane.
I have run a few after waiting patiently and trying to put my bike at different positions to trip the sensor. I see no moral problems with proceeding through a light that fails to sense my presence, especially in the middle of the night when there isn't a car in sight. Usually when there is enough traffic that it would be dangerous to cross on the red, there's a larger hunk of metal behind me that I can motion to pull onto the sensor and they'll trip it.
Just had a thought. A bicycle turning left could cross my path while turning left on the green light from the bottom of the T. I see so few bicyclists riding on the street here I didn't even think of that before composing my post. Stopping and looking for traffic still covers this, just my comment of no chance of a vehicle legally crossing into the bike lane was wrong since a left turning bicyclist would be merging into the bike lane.
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