Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Clipless - why?

I've trolled these forums off and on for about a year but I've never really had the urge to post before now. A couple of comments in other threads regarding clipless/cages did not sit entirely well with me, so I've decided to pick this fight.

I've owned my fixed bike for about year now. It has been my primary form of daily transportation during that time, except for in October (car hit me, took some time off), and January through March (weather).

When I bought this bike, I paid extra to get the clipless pedals instead of the "regular" ones. I also bought a pair of Shimano DX (that's what it says on them...) shoes to go with the pedals.

I never clip in.

I still wear the shoes. They don't look too ridiculous and the laces are nicely hidden under a velcroed flap. They let me do a nice little tap dance thing at work, too. However, when riding my bike, I use the "normal" side and not the clip side.

When the bike was relatively new, I did use the clips. I practiced engaging and disengaging and all that. I had one ugly spill because I didn't disengage my foot properly. That really hurt. Over time, I came to see them more as a nuisance than any sort of advantage. Over time, I gave up using them.

Why should I clip in?

I've only ever had my feet thrown from the pedals once. It was when the bike was new and I was going down a hill - I was not ready for having to pedal that fast. It has not happened since.

I lied above when I said a car hit me. I actually hit the car. He failed to yield to traffic (me) and took off from his stop sign right in front of me. I hit his right rear quarter-panel doing maybe 20-25 km/h. My bike bounced back while I flew over his trunk, landing in a roll on my shoulder and back. I was barely hurt, though perhaps more than slightly surprised. He got a $90 fine for it. Take THAT, creepy driver guy!

What would have happened if I had been clipped in? Would I have had my upper body whipped forward? Would I have somehow pulled the bike over the car with me? None of the physical scenarios I can think of sound as appealing as what actually happened when I was not anchored to my bike.

I accept the fact that I have only my own experience from which to draw conclusions, and that there are riders out there (and on here) who have more experience than me by far. So, what am I missing?

Why should I clip in?

It gives you a more efficient pedal stroke. You can produce power on the down and up stroke. It allows you to control speed with your legs as well.

your shoes would have popped out of the pedals. if you were in clips and straps, theres a better chance your feet would have been stuck, but that depends on how tight you like your straps.
none of the crashes ive been in were exacerbated by riding with clipless. i havent crashed with toe clips yet, for some strange reason, but ill let you know how that goes once it happens.

Clips and straps are sloppy and uncomfortable!

It gives you a more efficient pedal stroke. You can produce power on the down and up stroke. It allows you to control speed with your legs as well.

I won't argue that I could probably generate more power while clipped in. However, I can control speed with my legs right now, at least on the up stroke. If I require more stopping power than that, I have my brakes.


your shoes would have popped out of the pedals. if you were in clips and straps, theres a better chance your feet would have been stuck, but that depends on how tight you like your straps.
none of the crashes ive been in were exacerbated by riding with clipless. i havent crashed with toe clips yet, for some strange reason, but ill let you know how that goes once it happens.

Please do. :)

clipless pedals are just more efficient than toe clips.

it doesn't sound like you're using clips either. hopefully you're using a brake, if not you're probably constantly paranoid trying to figure out what other people are going to do, thus never really hitting your maximum speed/potential unless the streets are completely dead.

when you're on your upstroke, you have nothing to pull up on--that's the efficiency of toe clips and clipless pedals. as far as efficiency is concerned, unless your toe clips are clamped down as hard as possible on your foot, clipless will be more efficient because you're actually clipped in with clipless pedals (i always found this to be a funny statement). with clipless pedals, no matter how good of a cyclist you are, you're 100% efficient (theoretically, what you do with that efficiency is your choice) on your upstroke and downstroke.

OP needs to learn how to ride a bicycle.

clipless pedals are just more efficient than toe clips.

it doesn't sound like you're using clips either. hopefully you're using a brake, if not you're probably constantly paranoid trying to figure out what other people are going to do, thus never really hitting your maximum speed/potential unless the streets are completely dead.

when you're on your upstroke, you have nothing to pull up on--that's the efficiency of toe clips and clipless pedals. as far as efficiency is concerned, unless your toe clips are clamped down as hard as possible on your foot, clipless will be more efficient because you're actually clipped in with clipless pedals (i always found this to be a funny statement). with clipless pedals, no matter how good of a cyclist you are, you're 100% efficient (theoretically, what you do with that efficiency is your choice) on your upstroke and downstroke.

I suppose I was ambiguous in my original post - sorry for that. No, I don't use my clipless OR cages. Just regular shoe-on-pedal action.

But yes, I do have front and rear brakes. I trust them more than my feet acting on the rear wheel to stop myself in a hurry, anyway.

So, assuming I do not want to skip-stop, is efficiency the only reason I have to clip in to my clipless pedals?

Use whatever pedals you're happy with.

you dont need to skip/skid with the clips/clipless. but you can slow down better with them, by resisting the pedal rotation in both directions (pushing against and pulling against).

edit: btw roadfix is right. use whatever you want.

You obviously know you are right and will not listen to fact...therefore. Give up and go away? Ride whatever makes you feel more like a man.

You obviously know you are right and will not listen to fact...therefore. Give up and go away? Ride whatever makes you feel more like a man.

If I knew I was right, I would not have bothered to create an account and post the question in the first place.

What facts am I not listening to?

Feel like a man? Buh?

What's the point of this other than to get some kind of validation from an internet forum?

You don't use either clips or clipless. Wowie.

If you make plans and choices based on the fact that you may crash someday youre still just scared from your crash. Get over it.
Everyone crashes and your crash was nothing.

If you make plans and choices based on the fact that you may crash someday youre still just scared from your crash. Get over it.

That's great logic.

Why should I clip in?

so the next time your foot slips off the pedal you don't land really hard on the top tube. *crunch*

hopefully your cleats are embedded into you sole enough that there's not just metal-on-metal (it sounds like you have the double-sided kind of pedals at least).

also, re: "efficient pedal stroke" when you are clipped in, you use your hamstrings so that you both push and pull, which is easier on your knees and makes you accelerate faster.

Clipless pedals allow the rider to pull up on the pedal more than just a platform pedal.

There's almost 0% chance of your foot ever coming off (or out) with equipment that is in good condition.

Being "locked" to the bike allows you to have more control of the bike.

That's great logic.


Hey, at least its logic. The OP has none. :D

Sigh.


What's the point of this other than to get some kind of validation from an internet forum?

The point was to ask what I am missing by giving up on using my clipless. Ergo "Clipless - why?". The bulk of my original post was to provide a context for that question.

Efficiency has been brought up and is something I agree with. Skip-stops have been brought up, too, though they're something I choose not to do. More points such as these are both welcome and encouraged.

I really don't see why I'm being attacked for questioning clipless.

Wait, arent you questioning clipless AND clips?
Youre idea is just to ride with feet on platform pedals right?

You have front and rear brakes and you seem to be comfortable with your current setup. There's no real reason to change if you're happy with what you have.

My reasons for clipless are efficiency and, assuming the cleats are properly adjusted, foot position (which lends itself back to efficiency). I don't use them for braking reasons as I make good use of my hand brakes. It's also quite nice to have your foot securely connected to your pedal during a long and fast descent.

Sorry about the snark. That was uncalled for.

If you never clip in, you should just buy some touring pedals and use those.

But since you are riding clipless pedals and clipless shoes, why not just clip in? There are literally no drawbacks to that situation. In a crash your feet will unclip, trust me. And everyone has a 0mph fall or two while learning to ride clipped in, but you quickly adapt and after 2 weeks, tops, you'll never even think about it again.

After you get used to them, ride up a steep hill unclipped, then go back down, and ride up clipped and concentrate on making full circles with your pedaling stroke. You will never question clipless again.

Wait, arent you questioning clipless AND clips?
Youre idea is just to ride with feet on platform pedals right?

Correct. To phrase my question differently, it could go something like "What advantages am I missing out on by not attaching my feet to my pedals?"

My pedals are double-sided. One side clips to my shoe, the other side has a generic toothy platform that merely grips the tread of my shoe.

Having given both sides a chance, I found that the clipless (what a confusing term) side was more of a nuisance than an advantage.

And here I am.

It's completely a matter of your choice versus efficiency. If you want to tool around comfortably with a hand brake, go with the platforms. If you want to ride fast or race, with quick bursts of power and acceleration, or to climb real hills/mountains, you'll need to make a change. That's all. (don't forget to leave the kickstand and spoke reflectors on as well).

buy a freewheel

grips the tread of my shoe.


that's good at least. i was imagining roadie shoes with single-sided type pedals and all sorts of catastrophies :eek:

that's good at least. i was imagining roadie shoes with single-sided type pedals and all sorts of catastrophies :eek:
Here's a photograph of my shoes, courtesy Google image search:

http://www.stif.co.uk/images/products/1762_400.jpg

Pros of clipless over flat pedals:
* greater efficiency
* greater stopping power when using your legs to stop
* safer - your feet won't ever slip off the pedals

Cons:
*

And anyone who is afraid of crashing in clipless shoes/pedals has never really crashed.

It just takes some getting used to but once you are its just better I think. I've had two pairs of clipless pedals and fallen twice because of them. Once for each pair. I unclipped my right and fell left, I panic sometimes and can't unclip the left so I just have to roll it out. I have never been hurt on those falls though.

those shoes are kinda sweet. how much did you pay for them?

Also -- with clipless pedals you can pull on the upstroke, rather than only being able to push down. "Pedaling circles."

Also -- with clipless pedals you can pull on the upstroke, rather than only being able to push down. "Pedaling circles."

Of course, you can do that with clips too. :) Albeit, less effciently

If I knew I was right, I would not have bothered to create an account and post the question in the first place.

What facts am I not listening to?

Feel like a man? Buh?
All of them my friend. Look at people who race or ride alot. How many pro tour, pro/am track, serious amateur or Pro MTB riders (sans some DH, most stunt and a few 4X guys) use flats? There must be a reason for that? All those reasons have been brought forth in this thread thus far. if you want to really geek out on it (You did create this account after-all, all that effort it took) as this in the road forum and you'll get the bio-mechanic reasons why.

Just because "you" have no issue stopping or back pedalling in flats means squat. I know a messenger here in the city who rides a 48x15 fixie with old flats, which the cages fell off long ago, mostly not in flip flops now that the weather is hot....brakeless. He lives on the bike, 14+ hours a day mostly in traffic. He has amazing bike control and it works for him. But he will admit it's not for everyone. He claims he can't afford a brake or new pedals (which is true given his money goes into a needle mostly)....but if he could he would.

If it works for you go nuts. But don't come here expecting to have something handed to you on some baseless assumption you have with a few smartass replies when you are pressed on your inane question.

There are a few reasons people are using ridicule as a motivator.

1. You mentioned a crash due to lack of control. Had you been clipped in, you would have more control over your pedals, and thus your bicycle.
2. There is a wealth of information on the internet and this forum about clipless, advantages and disadvantages.
3. There are a couple opinions on whether or not clipless are worth the trouble.
4. Being at work sucks.

as a guy who has tried straight up platforms, toe-clips, and spd's, i gotta say that there's no reason for Wils to clip in, if he isn't comfortable with doing so. all 3 set-ups work well, and cyclists in general should choose their favorite, even if their favorite is sort of a 'default' favorite, due to some trepidation from a long-ago crash.

as for me, i prefer spd's with some shoes with a very recessed cleat. the shimano dx's are a nice example of this. i s'pose i'd do platforms with no clips again, in a pinch. but, toe-clips offend me deeply. that being said, a million ppl swear by 'em.

the point is, i guess, you gotta go with your gut. i suspect the OP is aware that the clipless would give him extra efficiency and control, but s/he doesn't think the incresed efficiency and control are worth the inconvenience/uncertainty that his(her?) early experiences gave him.

-rob

people talk about efficiency in pedal stroke with clipless but its kind of a bigger deal than you might think. when I changed to clipless I noticed *dramatic* and *immediate* increases in power and efficiency. Like hills I had struggled with before suddenly became a breeze in comparison. without something holding your feet to the pedals so you can push and pull throughout the rotation, you are probably only getting like 40% of your max power.

since you already have the setup, why not just give it a try for a while and decide for yourself if you think it's a good idea? if you ask a bunch of people you'll get an assortment of answers but I think most anyone who spends signifigant time on a bike is gonna agree that some sort of clipping mechanism is worthwhile.

I can see why someone would use clipless if they're just out for the exercise, but there's no way in hell I'd use anything but toe straps for commuting.

I can see why someone would use clipless if they're just out for the exercise, but there's no way in hell I'd use anything but toe straps for commuting.


Why? Toe-straps are the spawn of satan. And before you say walking it road shoes is gay. MTB shoes are very easy to walk in

those shoes are kinda sweet. how much did you pay for them?

Something like $130, I think. They were the only shoes I could find that could double as regular shoes and were black. I quite like them and have since I become used to their stiffness (relative to regular shoes).


There are a few reasons people are using ridicule as a motivator.

1. You mentioned a crash due to lack of control. Had you been clipped in, you would have more control over your pedals, and thus your bicycle.
2. There is a wealth of information on the internet and this forum about clipless, advantages and disadvantages.
3. There are a couple opinions on whether or not clipless are worth the trouble.
4. Being at work sucks.

1.) I mentioned a crash, but I'm pretty sure I did not mention lack of control. A car drove across my path and I hit it. My hand did not even reach for the brake, it happened so quickly. I mentioned it only to illustrate my question: would clips have made that crash worse?

2.) The advantage to a forum is that it is not static information presented "as is". I can't have a conversation with an essay posted on a website. That's all I wanted. A conversation with riders more experienced than myself on this subject.

3.) Why then am I being ridiculed if I'm not the only one questioning clipless?


i suspect the OP is aware that the clipless would give him extra efficiency and control, but s/he doesn't think the incresed efficiency and control are worth the inconvenience/uncertainty that his(her?) early experiences gave him.

If only to save you from pronoun hell: I'm a he. :)


since you already have the setup, why not just give it a try for a while and decide for yourself if you think it's a good idea?

Well, I did try it for a while, of course. However, it was when the bike was new (read: I was new to fixed). Perhaps I should simply give it another go.

amateurs, posers, n00bs.

3.) Why then am I being ridiculed if I'm not the only one questioning clipless?

wow...they really got on you, didn't they? welcome aboard! my (hopefully constructive) thoughts on clipless:

i started with cleats/straps/road shoes with my first 'real' road bike (~1987) and the efficiency was great, but i found them flat-out dangerous and uncomfortable. to have what i considered a secure enough connection they had to be tight to the point of discomfort, and release required reaching down, loosening the strap a lot, and wrenching your foot out. try that on a fixie (which mine was not)! i used them for a couple years, and even tried road cleats XC racing a couple times (ouch). admittedly, if you don't use the cleat (e.g.: commuting in street shoes) the release is greatly simplified...but so is the bond.

and that's at the heart of what's so magic about clipless i think...they allow the bond (unless you're an NYC junkie). you feel it as that fluid power on a fast uphill spin or an effortless rear-wheel flick, the no-doubt connection on the prime sprint or bombing down the rough stuff. i'm a big fan...an early adopter of both looks and spds.

they are also much safer, in that (like downhill ski bindings) they are designed to release under extreme load, helping prevent injury. that said, my not-so-diehard wife just got them and has skinned her knee already, practicing in the driveway. let me take this opportunity to echo the 'set 'em lose and practice on grass' suggestions (hers were lose anyway...). again, street shoes vs. cleats eliminates some of this advantage.

i have had nothing but clipless on my bicycles since ~1989, but last year put some cheapie flats and plastic clips on (guess what?) my commuter bike. under these circumstances, apparently i am willing to give up the bond. until recently, the only reason i rode bicycles was for the grace and the speed...and for that, you need the bond.

3.) Why then am I being ridiculed if I'm not the only one questioning clipless?

Well, I did try it for a while, of course. However, it was when the bike was new (read: I was new to fixed). Perhaps I should simply give it another go.
Most people who debate whether clipless is worth it are comparing it to toe clips and not flat pedals. Flat pedals are generally not a good idea to use on a fixed-gear bike.

I think you should definitely give it a try, especially in a hilly area. Going up you'll notice a dramatic increase in power output and efficiency and going down you'll notice a dramatic increase in control.

I use this setup.

Fixed
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/gbae007/crank-bros-yellow.jpg

Shoes: Sidi Dominator 5 Lorica
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/gbae007/sidis.jpg

Road:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/gbae007/eggbeaters-1.jpg

It gives you a more efficient pedal stroke. You can produce power on the down and up stroke. It allows you to control speed with your legs as well.
You can control your speed without clipless. The main advantage of clipless is that it keeps your feet on the pedals without having to think.

my eggbeaters balance my checkbook too

Min: is there a specific reason you use different pedals for the two bikes? (Just asking from curiosity; not attacking you; normally I wouldn't put a disclaimer like this, but this thread is full of people attacking for no reason. Seems to me like wils3005 just wanted to have a conversation, like he said, and a bunch of people jumped on him assuming he was out to prove something.)

My two cents: I use Power Grips. [ http://www.ekosport.com/pg_benefits.shtml ] I think they're a pretty good compromise: I get a nice locked-in feeling, which gives me more control throughout the pedal stroke, and they work with any kind of shoes (except sandals; in that case the strap cuts into my skin). They're easy to get in and out of, because you loosen/tighten the strap by changing the angle of your foot.

I tried some cheap clips/straps on my friend's fixie once. They felt really sloppy and it was a pain to get the pedal in the right position to slip in unless I was pedaling really slowly. I've never tried clipless before; I imagine that the "locked-in" feeling is much more pronounced, since the shoe-to-pedal connection is so much more solid, but I'm not so serious about riding that I care about that extra edge. (Yet.)

I second Yoshi. If I were you, I'd give it another try, since you have all the gear already.

If you're clipped in, either with click pedals, or cages and straps, you'll be faster, because of the greater efficiency, better able to slow down by resisting, better able to skip and skid, less likely to have your foot slip of the pedal and plant your nuts on the top tube, less likely to have your foot slip off, hit the road, the pedal to hit you in the calf on it's way round, digging your foot into the road, and fire you over the bars (this has happened to me).

That's what you're missing.

The downside is, you have to clip out when you stop. I'm struggling a bit with clipless, but I got used to clips and straps when I was 13, and never looked back. I run my straps a little loose, so that I can slip in and out without retensioning the straps. Technically, they should be cinched down tight, but I find I get enough of the advantages without making them quite that tight.

sorry for this but, if you really ride a bike, you would realise the advantages of clipless. I use LG Montahna XTs with eggbeaters for road and candies for mtb.

I can't believe people are even having this discussion in 2007.

one other factor is that properly used, eithe clipless or clips and straps puts yuour foot in the proper position on the pedals, so you don't end up screwing up your knees or hips because your feet aren't properly alligned. If all you do is short rides, it probably isn't an issue, but if you are doing long rides, your knees will suffer. Having ridden with clips and straps for years, I switched to clipless back when the first Look pedals came out-- The difference was immediately noticeable--also, I didn't have to reach down to loosen the clips as I approached a stop sign :) Clipless makes a lot of sense, especially the type of riding you are doing, where you use your brakes to stop. I have seen people get unclipped from clipless doing a skid--thankfully not me... I ride fixed with brakes. I only use the brakes when I have to, as I regulate my speed with my legs.

If you are young, get the clips and save your knees-- you will be happy in 20 years :)

train safe-