Commuting - Go fast mods on commuter bikes?

Hi Everyone.

I started commuting on an old 35+ lb mountainbike with knobbies.

Then I got a 14 speed old steel frictionshifting road bike that fit me well.

Now I'm going somewhere inbetween with an Aurora + rack, fenders, Arkel Bug, etc.

I'm still learning about this, and for example, the difference between even 20 psi (90 to 110) or some skinnier tires, or just getting into the habbit of cleaning and lubing my drivetrain every week seems to make a noticable difference to me.

I keep looking around and seeing people pitching low resistance bearings, lighter wheelsets, supra dupra go fast bits etc.

Now, I'm not going to spend too much on loosing weight off the bike, as if it's that important to me, I'd just put less than the 20lbs of stuff that goes into my backpack currently, but for example bearings, do these type of things make a really noticable difference to an average commuter?

Thanks :)

-- James

I keep looking around and seeing people pitching low resistance bearings, lighter wheelsets, supra dupra go fast bits etc.

Now, I'm not going to spend too much on loosing weight off the bike, as if it's that important to me, I'd just put less than the 20lbs of stuff that goes into my backpack currently, but for example bearings, do these type of things make a really noticable difference to an average commuter?

-- James

Short answer:

NO!:D

you have the 2 big ones done: hi-pressure slicks and a clean drivetrain.
a light wheelset does make a noticeable difference but you're talking $250+++

20 pounds in your backpack? That seems to be the thing holding you back the most at this point. You might shave a part of a pound off here or there... like mentioned wheels would be the next thing... but beyond that lightening the load would give the best benefit....

or shifting the load a rack would improve things

you have the 2 big ones done: hi-pressure slicks and a clean drivetrain.
a light wheelset does make a noticeable difference but you're talking $250+++

To improve ineffeciencies, replacing any moving parts (wheels, drivetrain, etc.) is your best value but you are looking at spending some dough.

Another consideration is bike fit. An aggressive fit will likely prove more efficient than a lax, upright position. Of course, comfort is a huge consideration as well.

Reduce air drag.

Seriously.

Big honkin' quadriceps. Best 'go-fast' mod for any bike.

I've got a 38 pound MTB commuter rig, and I weigh 250 pounds. That's a lot of weight to get movin', but I can keep a 17mph average on my rolling commute, and 18-20mph on the flats.

If you're already keeping the hubs and drivetrain well serviced, then shaving off a couple grams here and there might not really add up to much of a total weight savings. You're already getting the benefit of clean, smooth running components. The next step in 'go-fast' technology is to beef up the engine.

There is a difference, but it's hard to quantify.

I had one fixed-gear bike - a Cannondale Capo with lower end parts. I have the gearing like I like it to stay in my comfortable cruising range on the flats.

I purchased a different bike with the same gearing but high-end parts. On this bike, my speed increased several mph and pushed me to the top of my comfortable cadence zone in the flats.

I can't pinpoint what, exactly did it. The hub bearings are definitely better, the drivetrain is slightly smoother, and the bars are slightly lower.

or shifting the load a rack would improve things

+1.

Once you've ditched the backpack for a light duty rack and a pair of small panniers you'll never go back.

If you consider how much cooler you will be, they probably won't slow you down at all.

Tires: 700x32 Randonneur Pro
Tubes: find some good 700x28-32's that weigh ~130g
Drivetrain: clean and properly lubricated with no rust whatsoever
Wheels: Cheaper than $250 is fine but make sure they're perfectly tensioned 32-spoke with double wall rims that are at or below about 470g each. CXP23's on Tiagra or Sora Hubs?

I see plenty of hybrids built up with poorly tensioned 36-spoke wheels and rims weighing 550g each. If properly tensioned, these wheels qualify for clydesdale or touring duty. As they come of the machine, they're no stronger than a much lighter, well tensioned, 32-spoke wheel. If you lose 100g of rim weight, another 100g of tire weight, 30g of spokes, and 30g of tube, you'll probably pick up almost 2 mph. The weight of the rest of the bike makes much less of a difference.

Big honkin' quadriceps. Best 'go-fast' mod for any bike.

I've got a 38 pound MTB commuter rig, and I weigh 250 pounds. That's a lot of weight to get movin', but I can keep a 17mph average on my rolling commute, and 18-20mph on the flats.

If you're already keeping the hubs and drivetrain well serviced, then shaving off a couple grams here and there might not really add up to much of a total weight savings. You're already getting the benefit of clean, smooth running components. The next step in 'go-fast' technology is to beef up the engine.


Guadrophenia! :lol:

http://www.modrevival.net/QuadropheniaSpecialEdition.JPG

There's nothing like new wheels. I wonder if more regular attention to hubs (like, uh, *any* attention...) would regenerate that new wheel feel.

+1.

Once you've ditched the backpack for a light duty rack and a pair of small panniers you'll never go back.

or just strap the backpack (if not overfilled) onto the light duty rack or get a more aero trunk and no panniers.

There's nothing like new wheels. I wonder if more regular attention to hubs (like, uh, *any* attention...) would regenerate that new wheel feel.

a lot of recent hubs have sealed bearings... what are you dealing with?

i generally poo-poo on fancy bearing claims, since those things spin slow. the wheel spins only once per second for every 5mph (approx), so even at like 20mph, the bearings are lazing along at 240-250rpm. that is ssssllloooowww. i'd love to see some quantization of how much if any extra drag there is from a bad vs good bearing, or standard vs ceramic, etc.

Get "Urban" Tires. Smoother, more efficient coasting

Try Drop Bars. I've seen commuter moutain bikes with drop bars before. Drop Bars allow you to lean and have less air resistance

Pedals w/ toe clips allow for more efficient pedaling.

If the bike has front shocks, get a new fork. Nothing kills efficiency like shocks

Get helmet if you dont have one, and a shirt that isn't loose. Both will slightly decrease your air resistance, and the helmet might save your life.

Well, I'm picking up my Arkel Bug today, so that will take care of getting the weight off my back and onto a rack.

I know I'm going to be in trouble for this one, a quick search on Sheldon's site yielded nothing... how do I do hub/wheel maintenance?

Thanks :)


-- James

a lot of recent hubs have sealed bearings... what are you dealing with?

i generally poo-poo on fancy bearing claims, since those things spin slow. the wheel spins only once per second for every 5mph (approx), so even at like 20mph, the bearings are lazing along at 240-250rpm. that is ssssllloooowww. i'd love to see some quantization of how much if any extra drag there is from a bad vs good bearing, or standard vs ceramic, etc.

Granted roller blade wheels are a LOT smaller and hence spin alot faster, but the difference between abec 1-3-5 bearings on those is amazing. That being said, those things spin REALLY fast for a given speed. Like you said, not so much with bicycle wheels, and it's $200+ to find out directly (at least for those ceramic ones)

-- James

Get "Urban" Tires. Smoother, more efficient coasting

Try Drop Bars. I've seen commuter moutain bikes with drop bars before. Drop Bars allow you to lean and have less air resistance

Pedals w/ toe clips allow for more efficient pedaling.

If the bike has front shocks, get a new fork. Nothing kills efficiency like shocks

Get helmet if you dont have one, and a shirt that isn't loose. Both will slightly decrease your air resistance, and the helmet might save your life.

well since the OP has an aurora, he has all of those by default. But that would still be good advice for the mountain bike commuters.

+1.

If you lose 100g of rim weight, another 100g of tire weight, 30g of spokes, and 30g of tube, you'll probably pick up almost 2 mph. The weight of the rest of the bike makes much less of a difference.

Does the weight of the wheels make a big difference once you're underway? I can see how it would affect accelerating and braking, but once you're at steady speed, is the spinning weight any different than weight on the rest of the bike?

Clips and straps or clipless pedals, study pedal technique and perfect it.

Proper fit. Seats you can sit on and bar grip that feels good lets you push harder, longer.


jim

Engine upgrades. It's like a video game. The more you play, the better engine you have. If you still have a mountain bike, take it out and do some really good technical singletrack and dirt hills with it on the weekends. Work on endurance during the week (maintain a little higher cadence than usual all the way home, for example) and don't worry about the bike for a bit.

Really, the human on the bike is almost always the cheapest to upgrade, but you have to do it over time. It also happens to be the weakest link most of the time. For instance, there's no sense in me worrying about the difference between a 7 pound madone and a 35 pound schwinn varsity when I'm still more than 40 pounds overweight. There's no sense in worrying about infinitesemal inefficiencies in bearings and drivertains when my lungs, heart, and legs are holding me back. There's no sense in going for aerodynamic wheels, bottle cages, or handlebars when my flabby belly and thick wasteline are acting like a barn door.

The way I figure it, work on the engine first.

For hub repair info check the Park Tool web site Repair Help section. They have good descriptions and you will discover it is pretty obvious once you get it apart.
Be sure to get cone wrenches before you try this out as you *need* wrenches that thin to do it correctly, there is no substitute that I am aware of. The wrenches are cheap and pay for themselves in a hurry.

Put 35 or larger cross tires on the Aurora.

Hit the trails to improve handling.

Out of laziness, don't take the cross tires off the bike for a week of pavement riding. Then put the 28 slicks back on. I guarantee the bike will feel faster, and your handling will be better to boot :D

Well, it worked for me.

Nothing kills efficiency like shocks



Only shocks that suck.....


Edit: Okay, let me expand on that. I think shocks designed for XC racing have very little impact on mountain bikes on the road. I had a XC fork with lockout, and I used to constantly be locking it out whenever I was on pavement under the impression that it was soaking effort. Then I began riding to work with and without it locked out, and found... no difference in time whatsoever.

Big DH and freeride shocks slow the bike down noticeably, but if a XC suspension is robbing you of more than a tiny bit of efficiency, it isn't set up right (or is too low-end TO set up right).

Only shocks that suck.....


Edit: Okay, let me expand on that. I think shocks designed for XC racing have very little impact on mountain bikes on the road. I had a XC fork with lockout, and I used to constantly be locking it out whenever I was on pavement under the impression that it was soaking effort. Then I began riding to work with and without it locked out, and found... no difference in time whatsoever.

Big DH and freeride shocks slow the bike down noticeably, but if a XC suspension is robbing you of more than a tiny bit of efficiency, it isn't set up right (or is too low-end TO set up right).

Your right, most people that "commute" on bicycles with shocks do it because that's their only bike. They are either poor, don't know better or don't care that much(they are not bike geeks like us). Which almost always means it's a cheap bike with really sorry dual suspension from walmart. I think the perception (for non-bike people) is that road bikes are for geeks that wear tights and mountain bikes are for tough X-games people. The more gadgets the better. Dual suspension, disc brakes, 27 gears...all for $199. I think we've all seen these people, we all probably know a few of these people and tried out their bikes at one point and developed a negative opinion of shocks.

To the OP: I'm upgrading my entire bike to dura-ace(from tiagra that came stock). To be honest, I'm doing it just because I find it fun and I can never leave anything alone. The only thing that'll really help me go fast is when I upgrade the wheels and maybe the crank. Not from weight savings so much but just because my stock wheels and crank seem to flex alot when really going up hills.

I can see how it would affect accelerating and braking, but once you're at steady speed, is the spinning weight any different than weight on the rest of the bike?

At constant speed on flat ground, bike weight barely matters at all.

At constant speed on an uphill, weight definitely matters but the difference between spinning weight and non-spinning weight does not matter.

Twenty pounds is a lot in a backpack. Leaving the whole thing home would help mpre than any conceivable bike upgrade.

Paul

Twenty pounds is a lot in a backpack. Leaving the whole thing home would help mpre than any conceivable bike upgrade.

Paul

Yeah, but if I didn't bring my gear in to work, my commute would get alot shorter, AND I'd have more time to ride, not having a job ;)

hrm... maybe you're onto something, especially now that my bicycle's paid off :)

-- James

Yeah, but if I didn't bring my gear in to work, my commute would get alot shorter, AND I'd have more time to ride, not having a job ;)

hrm... maybe you're onto something, especially now that my bicycle's paid off :)

-- James

Is there any place to store the stuff you carry at work? I have alot of storage available where I work so I usually drive once or twice a week to restock fresh cloths, food and drinks.

At constant speed on flat ground, bike weight barely matters at all.

I find this to be mostly true and the average gram counter needs to get a life. Static or non-spinning weight doesn't make that big of a difference. I do qualify as an ounce counter though. Shedding a few ounces from a few places adds up to 1 pound which adds in the neighborhood of 1% or 0.1 mph. There is a cost-benefit ratio to consider though. Shedding a pound from my 17.5 lb. Felt would cost about $60 per ounce. Is that extra 0.1 mph really worth $1000? And the next pound is even pricier! However, taking a pound off of a 28 lb. hybrid can often be done for less than $100 and taking a pound off of one's waistline can usually be done for free.


Does the weight of the wheels make a big difference once you're underway?

Even after you're underway, you are accelerating and decelerating every time you turn the pedal. Better spinners waste less energy here but everybody wastes at least a little. I spend a lot of time hiking and backpacking and it's said that a pound on the foot is worth five in the pack. It's even more true on a bicycle rim and this is the one and only place I look at grams. It would take some time for me to track it down, but a detailed analysis of the speed difference between otherwise identical wheels assembled with alloy nipples and brass nipples came up with 20g per rim equals a little over 1% or 0.1 mph. Lighter tires and tubes are generally more supple and absorb the slight imperfections in the road better as well.

I always run as light of a tire as I can without flatting more than a couple of times a year. I've yet to flat after 1000 miles of commuting on Vittoria Randonneur Pro's. After 1 road flat in 3000 miles, Michelin Krylion Carbons rule for the average group road or charity ride. I also build my own wheels and will often take an extra hour getting my spoke tension as close to perfect as possible. I've done plenty of curb hopping and lightly loaded touring on 32-spoke Open Pros on Ultegra Hubs and they've yet to go out of true on me.

Yeah, but if I didn't bring my gear in to work, my commute would get alot shorter, AND I'd have more time to ride, not having a job ;)

hrm... maybe you're onto something, especially now that my bicycle's paid off :)

-- James

Well, if you need to bring this stuff, I strongly recommend carrying it on the bike (pannier, rack, or basket) rather than on your back. It's a lot easier when the bike carries the load, not you. Twenty pounds of cargo on the bike or in a trailer is really no big deal except where it is very hilly.

Paul

Granted roller blade wheels are a LOT smaller and hence spin alot faster, but the difference between abec 1-3-5 bearings on those is amazing. That being said, those things spin REALLY fast for a given speed. Like you said, not so much with bicycle wheels, and it's $200+ to find out directly (at least for those ceramic ones)

-- James

EXCELLENT articel on ceramic bearings & bearing grades just came out in MBA - articel si worth the price of the mag. great read.

Only shocks that suck.....


Edit: Okay, let me expand on that. I think shocks designed for XC racing have very little impact on mountain bikes on the road. I had a XC fork with lockout, and I used to constantly be locking it out whenever I was on pavement under the impression that it was soaking effort. Then I began riding to work with and without it locked out, and found... no difference in time whatsoever.

Big DH and freeride shocks slow the bike down noticeably, but if a XC suspension is robbing you of more than a tiny bit of efficiency, it isn't set up right (or is too low-end TO set up right).

+1 - i've been riding a commuter w/4" front suspension for years. it has lockout. if i lock it out my average does not go up but comfort goes down. the suspension does encourage smooth pedaling tho! :)

cheers

Even after you're underway, you are accelerating and decelerating every time you turn the pedal.
Not completely true. If you are pedaling to maintain speed you are accelerating the wheel and the rest of the bike with each pedal stroke, but the deceleration happens because you don't spin smoothly and is undesirable. A heavier wheel makes it easier to maintain speed, hence the reason the recent hour track record attempt was attempted with a wheel that had extra weights attached to the rim.

Better spinners waste less energy here but everybody wastes at least a little. I spend a lot of time hiking and backpacking and it's said that a pound on the foot is worth five in the pack. It's even more true on a bicycle rim and this is the one and only place I look at grams.
Very true for hiking where your foot stops for every step but not for a wheel.

Lighter tires and tubes are generally more supple and absorb the slight imperfections in the road better as well.
This is very true and results in significant improvements in rolling resistance.

While my arguments above seem to indicate that a heavier wheel would be better the problem is that you are not trying to maintain a constant speed or traveling on flat roads on a commute. You are accelerating from intersections and climbing hills. In both cases weight takes energy from you to accelerate, however I'm not convinced that wheel weight is different from bike weight.
So in real world applications a lighter bike (including rider and load) is faster, and lighter tires are faster due to lower rolling resistance.

Craig

You need to upgrade to an aerogel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel) frame! And components and everything for that matter. Leave those wussy carbon fiber junkies lugging their 14 lb boat anchors in the dust!