I was just reading the "No bikes" thread and it reminded me of a situation that has been bugging me for years.
It is no secret that pedestrians and cyclists are treated like second class citizens to cars. Nothing makes this clearer to me than a car park.
The car park is designed for cars and cars only. Once you get out of your car you are no longer catered for. There are rarely, almost never, footpaths to walk on. There is no room to walk between parked cars and moving traffic without being buzzed. High rise car parks are even worse. It make me wonder if the designers ever think where drivers go once they leave their car.
How hard would it be to put a footpath between rows of cars so people can walk more safely.
The fact that the people that design car parks don't cater for people once outside their cars, is it any wonder that pedestrians and cyclists are ignored in the planning of roads.
If designers can't plan a carpark, how could they possibly plan a city?
CHEERS.
Mark
Chris L
07-09-03, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by Dutchy
How hard would it be to put a footpath between rows of cars so people can walk more safely.
They tried that one at a shopping centre up here not far from where I live. It made not a whit of difference - the footpath was covered in parked cars. Now if we could just get the police to issue a few tickets and raise the fines to something meaningful...
Rowan
07-09-03, 08:46 PM
Actually, all said and done, they are *car* parks. Happily, I don't have to frequent them terribly often, and therefore the idea of peds and cyclists being second-class citizens in them doesn't worry me. Now I've seen photos of *bike* parking stations in Holland, and if you think car parks can be a bit overcrowded, they put a whole new dimension on things.
I'm still laughing my head off at mechBgon's observation on another thread:
"Yes indeed, these people are in such a hurry, but when they finally arrive at their destination, do they leap from their vehicle and SPRINT to the door of the building? Noooooo.... they circle the parking lot looking for the parking spot that will result in the least possible walking"
I have images since that post of everyone in a car park suddenly needing to be at work fast. All those bodies (cars and human) running around, into and over each other. Just like one of those ant farms.... but with much more chaos... much much more... can you imagine a carpark jam? Gridlocked and nowhere to go?
And your friendly commuter-cyclist just keeps on rocking up to work's front door without any fuss whatsoever or a care in the world.
R
Chris L
07-09-03, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Rowan
I have images since that post of everyone in a car park suddenly needing to be at work fast. All those bodies (cars and human) running around, into and over each other. Just like one of those ant farms.... but with much more chaos... much much more... can you imagine a carpark jam? Gridlocked and nowhere to go?
Just wait until the post-christmas shopping rush. 5 squillion people pushing and shoving, desperately trying to get the one bargain...
... when there really is only the one bargain.
Oxymoron
07-10-03, 10:36 AM
It is funny how parking lots aren't safe for pedestrians. Must be why drivers want to park so close - so they don't get run over by people like themselves.
Now an empty parking lot... That's what scares me. Ever find yourself in the middle of one on foot or bike with a car headed straight at you, diagonally across all the parking spaces, at 35mph? And then only to whiz by a few feet away obviously never having had seen you? My adrenaline was pumping so hard I almost puked. Now that's natural! Someone compared cars to sharks on the forums. They are more akin to large predatory cats in our uban jungle wilderness. I thought the point of civilization was to eliminate the freeze or flee need of our hunter/gatherer ancestors.
On a diff. note - can you imagine if people did walk like they drive. They would be stepping on each other's heels, pushing others off the sidewalk, yelling at old people for walking too slow and getting in their way. It would actually be a pretty funny image. Any film makers or animators out there?
Rowan
07-10-03, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Oxymoron
They are more akin to large predatory cats in our uban jungle wilderness. I thought the point of civilization was to eliminate the freeze or flee need of our hunter/gatherer ancestors.
I have very strong views on cats, the destruction they cause to our fragile Australian wildlife, and the depletion of our fish stock just to feed them.
Oxymoron's analogy is not that far wrong in both the destructive and environmental sense.
Originally posted by Oxymoron
On a diff. note - can you imagine if people did walk like they drive. They would be stepping on each other's heels, pushing others off the sidewalk, yelling at old people for walking too slow and getting in their way.
Don't they do that anyway? My experience in the "big cities" of Melbourne and Sydney at rush hour is: Don't stop walking or you'll get run over!;)
Chris L
07-10-03, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Rowan
Don't they do that anyway? My experience in the "big cities" of Melbourne and Sydney at rush hour is: Don't stop walking or you'll get run over!;)
Actually, I find the "big cities" like Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane to be relatively sane places. The one's you need to watch out for are the so-called "medium sized" cities like Geelong, the Gold Coast and Ipswich. For some reason, the people in these places still think they're living in a small town and have a heap of space to do whatever they like as fast as they like.
Dutchy
07-10-03, 09:43 PM
Ever find yourself in the middle of one on foot or bike with a car headed straight at you, diagonally across all the parking spaces, at 35mph?
I have seen this and it is very stupid. If there were footpaths between rows this would not happen. Unfortunately developers are only interested in getting as many cars as possible into that piece of land.
CHEERS.
Mark
JRA
07-11-03, 11:01 AM
It doesn't have anything to do with cycling advocacy, but a "car park" sounds like a place cars go to have a picnic.
But I guess that term makes a lot more sense than "pelican crossing", which really had me scratching my head trying to figure out WTF it was the first time I saw it on these forums.
Ah, you've gotta love it! :D
Rowan
07-13-03, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by JRA
It doesn't have anything to do with cycling advocacy, but a "car park" sounds like a place cars go to have a picnic.
:roflmao: :roflmao:
Feasting on grease, washing it down with fuel, casting aspersions at innocent pedestrians as they walk by, and pharting out noxious gases all over the place. Then fighting to get out of the park when it closes.
The images are... well... not hard to imagine.
Dahon.Steve
07-13-03, 10:40 PM
I hate to tell you guys but car parks are here to stay and are the furture of modern city planning. They are being used in in conjunction with railroad and lightrails as alternative means to stop the flood of cars going into the city.
The car parks near my home are charging the motorists $190.00 USD per month to park 1500 feet from the lightrail. My bicycle is free and I get to park 20 feet from the lightrail. :)
Rowan
07-14-03, 12:16 AM
Inner-city car parking may be a moot point, though. And institutions such as universities here are looking more seriously at the value of their excess real estate linked to their plans to expand... is it better to provide car-parks, or build a faculty? In one case (Perth WA) that was related to me, the learning facility came down the winner.
It's interesting to read of the contrasts between nations. Here (at least in Tasmania and some others I have experiened on the big island to the north), there is a slow (very slow) realisation that central business precincts are for people. Over there in the US, you portray modern city planning as very car-centric. Now, just who is the more advanced and enlightened?