Classic & Vintage - Louison Bobet

My wife saved this from the crusher at our local community recycle day. I was working on getting pictures of something else together to post here, but this took precedent. There is a teaser of what I've been working on included in the gallery.

Any French experts give me some pointers on this bike?

http://www.gallery.unvoiced.com/main.php

Thanks,

John, The OFG

John, I know ZIP about french bikes, however, Eugene Sloane's "The Complete Book of Cycling" published in 1970 lists Louison Bobet Pro C-35 as "Highest Quality Deraileur Bicycles" along with the Schwinn Paramount P-13, Falcon and Frejus. He lists the Louison Bobet C-34 as a "Good Quality" Deraileur Bicycle along with the Raleigh "Carleton" DL-100. He lists the Louison Bobet "Sports" as a Low-Cost Quality Deraileur Bicycle along with the venerable Peugeot UO-8 and Raleigh Record. Thats all I've got to share.

Any French experts give me some pointers on this bike?I'm no expert, but I'll chime in. Bobets are rebadged Merciers. See the similarity in the headbadges here (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/French/Mercier/MercAhdL.jpg). Bobet rode a Mercier to a TdF win in '55. The models of both marques were pretty much in sync. This one is fairly low on the totem pole ...

A fun bike to play around with though. You gotta love a bike with a TdF winner's pic on it. Kinda like the Eddy Merckx by Falcon. Plus, everyone should have at least one French bike. :)

Bob

OFG,

Back in about 67/68 one of my older brothers bought a used Louison Bobet and it was a pretty big deal in the neighborhood as it was pre bike boom and there were not many "racing" bikes around. A couple of years later I slammed the seat down and would ride it around the block on my tip toes. I loved the metallic green paint and the decals.... your pics have really brought back some fond memories, thanks!

vjp

Here is mine,looks to be the same vintage.The man i bought it from said he bought it in the early 60's.I think he is likely correct about it's age.
About 20 years ago I stoped at a garage sale where there were two bikes for sale this bobet and a man's fiorelli,25 dollars each.I had enough for one only and bought the similar vintage fiorelli.I thought about going back for the bobet but did not.A couple of weeks later I regretted not going back for the bobet but it was too late to do anything about it at that time as the sellers were moving the week after the garage sale.
Forward two years and I stop at another garage sale in the same town.Leaning on some boxes on the side of the garage is a bobet.I ask how much,she says $10. and i buy it.The lady said it was given to her by a friend when she was moving.I get it home thinking it is the same bike I saw two years earlier,sure enough comparing the bikes both of them have the same out of state bicycle shop decal.

woops forgot the pictures.

schwinderella,

Yours looks remarkably similar to mine. I'm assuming mine is a 1973, since 73 is stamped on the seat lug.

BobHufford,

I'm not sure I really want to own an old French bike. I'll see if it cleans up and try to sell it, I take it the parts are low range items? The seat and saddle bag are kinda cool, and I do like the old fenders.

I take it a thorough cleaning and oxalic acid on the metal won't detract from the value, since it is not top flight to begin with?

Bobet also had a 15-speed touring version.
While yours is not a top-o-the-line, it still has some great nostalgic value!

I like it a lot, but I've always liked French bikes.

I'm assuming mine is a 1973, since 73 is stamped on the seat lug.

BobHufford,

I'm not sure I really want to own an old French bike. I'll see if it cleans up and try to sell it, I take it the parts are low range items? The seat and saddle bag are kinda cool, and I do like the old fenders.

I take it a thorough cleaning and oxalic acid on the metal won't detract from the value, since it is not top flight to begin with?The 73 is not a date stamp. It's either a lug angle or just a lug part number. These parts were fairly high end at one point in time (well, maybe not the brakes), but at the time this bike was built they had filtered down to the lower price tier. Cleaning and polishing won't hurt the value of these or higher end parts. The leather saddle always has value and the bag is way cool!

Bob

Bobet also had a 15-speed touring version.
While yours is not a top-o-the-line, it still has some great nostalgic value!This is a 15 speed.

The 73 is not a date stamp. It's either a lug angle or just a lug part number. These parts were fairly high end at one point in time (well, maybe not the brakes), but at the time this bike was built they had filtered down to the lower price tier. Cleaning and polishing won't hurt the value of these or higher end parts. The leather saddle always has value and the bag is way cool!

BobThanks Bob,

It has an old Detroit bicycle license dated 1972 & 1977, so I thought perhaps the 73 was a date. I will get a better look at it tomorrow, any ideas on how to date it? Will the dérailleurs or hubs have date codes somewhere? I can see that the hubs are Normandy.

Thanks for your help. I'll post more pictures as I clean it.

Here's the real deal a 1954 Stella. (http://www.theracingbicycle.com/Stella_1954.html) Yours looks like a cheaper copy of the same bike, obviously marketed to cash in on Louison Bobet's T de F victories in 1953, 1954, and 1955. Never-the-less an interesting find.

Here's the real deal a 1954 Stella. (http://www.theracingbicycle.com/Stella_1954.html) Yours looks like a cheaper copy of the same bike, obviously marketed to cash in on Louison Bobet's T de F victories in 1953, 1954, and 1955. Never-the-less an interesting find.Dave, It's an honor to have you comment on the crusher save.

I took it mostly apart today. I haven't tried the bottom bracket, though it is remarkably smooth as is.

I haven't been able to get the stem out. Everything else came apart nicely. Right now the stem has penetrating oil soaking into it. Since the stem has an opening in the rear, I dripped more Liquid Wrench down there. Do I recall something about lye with an alloy stem and steel frame?

It looks to me like the bike hasn't been ridden too much for awhile. The cable to the front dérailleur was broken and most of the wear is to the small ring because of that. There is basically no wear to the larger two rings.

The rear drop outs are crazy long. I hope to get the stem out tomorrow and give it a WD 40 bath and take some more pictures. There is very little rust, in spite of being in Michigan for most of its life.

Does anyone know if there is a source for the brake hoods used on the Mafac levers? I will take a picture tomorrow, but they are white rubber/plastic pieces that clip to the top of the lever, rather than a full hood. It appears as though the adjusting screws fit into them.


Thanks for the help so far,

John, The OFG


PS--I really don't want a French bike, someone please steal it from me.

John, yours looks like it's probably in the third category that Eugene Sloan (whom I've never heard of before, and who seems a bit addled from the cited quote) mentions. In this case, I think he's correct about it being about as good as a U-08. I wouldn't turn my nose up at a free U-08, and the Bobet is a lot less common. You and the lady done good. :)

Good luck finding those half hoods. I think that if you do find any, they'll either be in rotten shape, or cost a small fortune. I spent some time this past winter trying to track down the equivalent for GB SuperHood brakes, with no luck whatsoever.

Thanks Bob,

It has an old Detroit bicycle license dated 1972 & 1977, so I thought perhaps the 73 was a date. I will get a better look at it tomorrow, any ideas on how to date it? Will the dérailleurs or hubs have date codes somewhere? I can see that the hubs are Normandy.

Thanks for your help. I'll post more pictures as I clean it.

That's a 2nd genration Huret Allvit derailleur. Assuming it is original would place your model from 1961-1968.

You and the lady done good. :)+1

Thanks to her for saving it from the crusher. :eek:

I have finally gotten the stem off, and am now contemplating removing/rebuilding the bottom bracket. The dang thing spins silky smooth as is. Am I looking for more trouble than it is worth removing the cranks, etc?

(Sorry for the photo quality)

http://lh4.google.com/jhollosy/Ro1SmEPqC9I/AAAAAAAAADo/HYf06nC478I/s400/P7050655.JPG

Check out the rear drop outs, screams fixie
http://lh5.google.com/jhollosy/Ro1SmUPqC-I/AAAAAAAAADw/iSNBTC-D6j0/s400/P7050656.JPG

John, yours looks like it's probably in the third category that Eugene Sloan (whom I've never heard of before, and who seems a bit addled from the cited quote) mentions. In this case, I think he's correct about it being about as good as a U-08. I wouldn't turn my nose up at a free U-08, and the Bobet is a lot less common. You and the lady done good. :)

Good luck finding those half hoods. I think that if you do find any, they'll either be in rotten shape, or cost a small fortune. I spent some time this past winter trying to track down the equivalent for GB SuperHood brakes, with no luck whatsoever.Any suggestions as to what to use? The half hoods have the cable stops built into it. Anyone know a full cheapo brake hood that would cover the whole thing?

Any suggestions as to what to use? The half hoods have the cable stops built into it. Anyone know a full cheapo brake hood that would cover the whole thing?


That's going to depend on the shape of the metal. Perhaps Modolo's would work. They did make some half hoods, and I think those appear occasionally.

My Dad and Mom got new Louison Bobets back in the early 70s. Hers was an Emerald Green Mixte, and his was a Burgundy racer if I recall correctly. At the time they were some of the nicest road bikes you could buy in the U.S. I rember them riding them when I was a kid I especially remember them riding them around Mackinac Island. I think they told me it was a house brand of an importer in Michigan.

Maybe I can get my dad to chime in, and tell what he remembers about the importer and the bikes when they were new.

I have a 1970 "Cyclo-Pedia" catalog from Cadillac, Michigan, that features the Louison Bobet line. Yours looks to me like the "Sports" model, with 15 speeds. If you are interested, I'll try to scan a copy of the page for you.

David L

I just acquired a Louison Bobet today (sorry, no pictures yet). The bike has been sloppily repainted, so the multi-digit serial number on the bb is mostly unreadable, but the last 3 digits are clearly C35. I'm guessing this may correspond with the model designation. I bought this from the second owner, who thought it was from the 60's, but had been updated and raced by the original owner into the 80's. Judging by the ride quality and weight it certainly seems on a par with a French Reynolds 531 Dilecta touring bike that I have, and the componentry is mostly high end - Campy Nuevo Record, Cinelli Stem and Giro D'Italia bars, Campy rims (though the front is laced onto a Nashbar hub!) & shifters.

I have finally gotten the stem off, and am now contemplating removing/rebuilding the bottom bracket. The dang thing spins silky smooth as is. Am I looking for more trouble than it is worth removing the cranks, etc?

(Sorry for the photo quality)



John, you have a cotterred crankset. Undoing the nuts is trivial, getting the cotter pins out is not, and getting them back in is even less trivial. There are antique special tools, but I don't have them. Matt might.

The brakes sound like old Mafacs. The UO-8s that were around in the late '60s had that half hood. Same brake was often used on other entry-level French steel (carbon steel, not chome-moly or manganese-moly) bikes.

If you don't have to dink with the BB, maybe you shouldn't.

My first 10-speed was a Louison Bobet found in disrepair and rebuilt in the kitchen with my stepfather. Lasted me through most of my first year of college, but one day I came out from class and it was just gone, no longer in the bike rack even though it was locked.

Mine was your basic uneventful French bike, similar as you pictured but green. Nervex lugs as I recall.

Any suggestions as to what to use? The half hoods have the cable stops built into it. Anyone know a full cheapo brake hood that would cover the whole thing?

The half hoods are out there, and show up on ebay quite a bit, but they ain't cheap. I think any stepped down ferrule would serve as a cable stop for the lever. There were full gum hoods for Mafacs, but probably later 70s, also on ebay now and then. Not sure what else would work, Mafac lever bodies seem smaller than anything else.

At the time they were some of the nicest road bikes you could buy in the U.S.

Don't overrate them ;)

-Kurt

My Dad and Mom got new Louison Bobets back in the early 70s. Hers was an Emerald Green Mixte, and his was a Burgundy racer if I recall correctly. At the time they were some of the nicest road bikes you could buy in the U.S. I rember them riding them when I was a kid I especially remember them riding them around Mackinac Island. I think they told me it was a house brand of an importer in Michigan.

Maybe I can get my dad to chime in, and tell what he remembers about the importer and the bikes when they were new.

I have a 1970 "Cyclo-Pedia" catalog from Cadillac, Michigan, that features the Louison Bobet line. Yours looks to me like the "Sports" model, with 15 speeds. If you are interested, I'll try to scan a copy of the page for you.

David L
The importer of Louison Bobets was Gene Portuesi of Cadillac MI. The full line was comparable to Peugeots and Gitanes of the 60s and 70s but Mr. Portuesi put more emphasis on touring, hence the 15-speed cycles and braze-ons for fenders and racks. Great shop. And Mr. Portuesi was a fine gentleman and a good person with which to do business.

I never knew John had this thing....

Awesome old bike!!

I never knew John had this thing....

Awesome old bike!!Careful, you could own it in trade for some painting tutoring.

Just to bump up this thread, as I'm slowly waking up from my winter bicycle hibernation.

I ended up with the Bobet. I started it's refurbishment, but ran square into the fact that at some point before OFG's Mrs rescued it, some ham fisted mutilator managed to tear the steer tube on the fork. So It's on hold once again until I can find a workable substitute.

I did make great progress on another vintage project today, so it wasn't all bad. :D

Just to bump up this thread, as I'm slowly waking up from my winter bicycle hibernation.

I ended up with the Bobet. I started it's refurbishment, but ran square into the fact that at some point before OFG's Mrs rescued it, some ham fisted mutilator managed to tear the steer tube on the fork. So It's on hold once again until I can find a workable substitute.

I did make great progress on another vintage project today, so it wasn't all bad. :DHow is the steerer torn? Could you add a sleeve to it for reinforcement?

How is the steerer torn? Could you add a sleeve to it for reinforcement?

At the top, it's torn on the threads, and then it runs down the tube length ways, I'll get a pic. I might have a new steerer brazed on later. For now I'm going to swap in a chrome fork and an english threaded headset I guess to get it going.

At the top, it's torn on the threads, and then it runs down the tube length ways, I'll get a pic. I might have a new steerer brazed on later. For now I'm going to swap in a chrome fork and an english threaded headset I guess to get it going.That may be a better idea in the long run anyway.

On this second run through the thread, a few things. In the side view photo, the fork looks possibly bent. I think getting it looked at is a great idea. Plus try to match the fork rake, this has geometry similar to the old randonneur breed.

The cotterred crank is not of top quality, even for that day. High grade cotters, such as FB, Magistroni, or Stronglight, usually had three pins cast integral with the right side arm, and this one is pressed onto the arm. Plus the chainwheels were often aluminum on the steel crank pins, connected with the same sort of adapters this bike has. A classic pattern, but not the racing grade.

The "Juy Simplex" on the dropout should probably be checked out on CR, where the rabid Francophista seem to live. I suspect it is a mid-60s part. Overall parts quality seems to match a UO-8, although I've always regarded the Allvit as producing lower quality shifts than the Simplex.

Redneckwes, John may or may not agree, but I think we'll at least TRY to organize another vintage ride this summer, and it would be great to at least have a show and tell with that bike included.

Road Fan

On a second look at this thread, here are some more thoughts.

1. The crank is not top end of the day. Racing-grade cottered cranks had one piece (spider cast integral with the right arm and often aluminum rings. This doesn't.
2. The parts overall look like those on a UO-8. Not garbage at all, but not racing grade.
3. The dropout "Juy Simplex" is an old name. The Franconistas on CR may be able to clear up how old that frame is.

Redneckwes, I think your fork idea is good, but see if you can get the new fork adjusted (bent) to produce the same rake as that of the old fork. This bike has geometry very close to that of the classic French randonneuses, and that will be a major part of the experience. Probably Franklin Frames down near Columbus can do that.

I'd like to try to again organize a SE Michigan Vintage ride mid this summer, and if we have a show/tell afterwards, I'd really like to see that bike.

Road Fan

Sorry for the near-dual post, but my PC flaked and would not show me the updated BF screen -- grrr.

Here are all the pictures I have of it, the day it was saved from the crusher by Mrs OFG. It is, by no means, a high quality bike, but still kind of neat, if you are into 'ticky-tacky French'.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ypsibikes/LouisonBobet#

I always liked a bike where the "name" thought enough of it to put a picture of themselves on it!

I have a Raphael Gemniani...

3. The dropout "Juy Simplex" is an old name. The Franconistas on CR may be able to clear up how old that frame is.


I am by no means a Francophile or Franconista or a Francopistaphile but!

My 1975 (have original purchase receipt and bike tag) Jeunet has the same drop-outs and it has a 531 main frame.

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/Anthony+Bier/1975+Jeunet/

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/242620-1/jeunet+Rear+Do.jpg

Check out the rear drop outs, screams fixie
http://lh5.google.com/jhollosy/Ro1SmUPqC-I/AAAAAAAAADw/iSNBTC-D6j0/s400/P7050656.JPG

I answered that call with mine... indeed it is fixed.

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/315748-2/IMG_1501.JPG

Charges since photo:
Brooks pro re-mounted
longer SR plain seatpin swapped in
TA pro-5-vis cranks with 45T 1/8" ring 170mm
KMC Kool Chain 1/8"
17T unmarked vintage 1/8" cog
Phil wood high flange 36 hubs laced to Nisi Mixer clinchers.
Front Brake caliper Campy victory
Rear Brake suntour superbe

Having just examined various forks I have around here, RoadFan is correct, there is a serious rake to the Bobet's fork that will have to be duplicated, Now I have three or four options I suppose.

New Steerer brazed to the factory fork,

New fork from the bike shop, re-profiled, which I'm sure will destroy the chrome plating.

Or Replacement fork re-profiled and rechromed by a professional, which I really can't afford.

On top of that, I'm going to need some serious clearance for fenders and the Michelin World tours I have for it.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c263/cubtime100/IMGP0241.jpg

No Fixie here, it will probably be the closest to a real rando machine as I ever come.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_jfxGj3kcEHQ/SFvPlGJVySI/AAAAAAAAAf4/JVuOlYMsQ0Y/s640/P6300241.JPG

Having just examined various forks I have around here, RoadFan is correct, there is a serious rake to the Bobet's fork that will have to be duplicated, Now I have three or four options I suppose.

New Steerer brazed to the factory fork,

New fork from the bike shop, re-profiled, which I'm sure will destroy the chrome plating.

Or Replacement fork re-profiled and rechromed by a professional, which I really can't afford.

On top of that, I'm going to need some serious clearance for fenders and the Michelin World tours I have for it.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c263/cubtime100/IMGP0241.jpg

I don't see why a sleeve couldn't be inserted in that and just tacked in place.

I don't see why a sleeve couldn't be inserted in that and just tacked in place.
If you put a sleeve in there you wouldn't be able to install the stem.

You could get it tig welded, turned down and rethreaded, but finding another fork probably much easier. Just find another old one. The rake in those old forks is deceiving, they put all the bend in a tight circle near the dropout rather than gradually spreading it out over the lower half. Personally, I love the look of those old fork rakes.

If you put a sleeve in there you wouldn't be able to install the stem.Sometimes my brain doesn't work so good.:eek:

Redneckwes,

I wouldn't just assume that gentle bending will destroy your chrome, but maybe I'm just not that smart. I have had a painted Trek 531 fork bent around 3/8 inch by a frames fellow, with no marring to the paint. I'd just lay the question on your best local guys. Mine was done by Ron Boi in Kenilworth, Illinois. Even though I live in Michigan, he was in business when I was in college in Chicago, so from my point of view he's "local." But he did the job well, as I knew he would. Others in the area: Franklin, Doug Fattic (niles, MI), Assenmacher (Swartz Creek), and possible Chris Zias in Ann Arbor. I'm not sure how to contact Chris. I'm certain Ron Boi could replace the steer tube.

Maybe Redxj knows some other SE Michigan/N Ohio options, or maybe somewhere else nearby. There's a Canadian builder, True North in Guelph, Ontario.

I think there are three dimensions to fork matching (aside from steer tube): rake or offset, length (distance from hub centers to brake mount center or equivalent), and bend contour. Of the three, I'd vote their criticality as length, rake, and bend contour, least important last. The steer tube is left out because it is an absolute necessity, in lenth, diameter, and thread. Rake and length might actually be equal, but I'd hate to test ride that bike and not have the experience of the original trail. Just me ...

I am by no means a Francophile or Franconista or a Francopistaphile but!

My 1975 (have original purchase receipt and bike tag) Jeunet has the same drop-outs and it has a 531 main frame.



Well, my plan has succeeded! I really just wanted to raise the question and see if someone with a real example and the real answer spoke up. Thanks, 'Toine!

I really do want to match the fork as close as I can, I think the traditional bend is critical. I might take a junk fork out to the shop next week and see how well it will bend.