I am wondering if anyone else has noticed that the strong gesture of a signal seems to draw the ire of overtaking motorists. Yesterday, as I finished the last leg of a short 35 mile workout, I am travelling east on Street Road in Bensalem, PA. This road is a major east/west surface street and, for most of its length, is four lanes wide with ample shoulders (wider than the width of one car).
At certain points, however, there are ramps and overpasses that interrupt the shoulder forcing you to "take the lane."
I don't know the speed limit on this stretch of the road, but know from driving it in a car that you may travel at 50-55 mph and not be concerned about receiving a speeding ticket.
Anyhow, I see an overpass ahead, and the shoulder narrows there from more than a car width to less than a foot, and that 12" is full of debris.
Fortunately, there was a break in the line of overtaking traffic in my lane just as I reach the spot where I need to take the lane in order to safely travel through this over pass.
As is my style, I give a bold signal to alert any drivers to my rear that I need to move left. I am watching the guy approaching in my rear view mirror. He's hauling a really big boat, and he's in the right lane. He's far enough behind me that I know I can take the lane, get through the over pass (actually, I guess it's an underpass for me), and assume my preferred position in the ample shoulder before he can even pull even with me (and, actually, that's exactly what happened).
Nevertheless, as soon as I give my signal, he starts leaning on his horn, frantically beeping at me to get out of his way. As he passes, he unloads a flurry of angry-toned verbal "somethings" out his open passenger side window. As is usually the case when we drivers try to yell at each other while moving along on the road, his verbal rantings were wasted on me, since I could not understand a single word of what he was saying.
I do wonder if the entire unpleasant encounter might have been avoided if I had simply taken the lane without signalling as though I was oblivious to the almost constant stream of traffic overtaking me as I ride this stretch of roadway.
I have had numerous similar reactions from drivers. To be fair, most of the time, drivers understand my intentions and react courteously to my signals.
Others, however, seem offended. Some will try to close up any openings in the line of cars to prevent you from making whatever move you need to make. Pretty pathetic, really.
Caruso
The BikeForums Team
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I have not noticed this being a pattern; more the opposite, in fact, as you also pointed out. I'm inclined to think you just got a bad one this time. He probably would have reacted the same way to your taking the lane without signalling. Who knows, maybe worse.
genec
Well motorists do it to each other... around here the common misconception is that you don't use turn signals on the freeway as it causes others to speed up and cut you off. It is easy to see how that can carry over to surface streets.
I find however that a well timed signal from a bike usually works.
Bekologist
I get some disaproving looks when I use a point and shoot, "I'm going there" hand signal.
like, if I'm riding along, past a car stopped at an stopsign, or a car waiting to turn left in front of me, and I 'point and shoot' my intent.
a lot of drivers screw their faces up as if to show disapproval along the lines of "where does that bicyclist get off, showing ME what he's doing?"
CommuterRun
My experience with signalling has been the same as John's. For me signalling is just part of road courtesy and helps eliminate guess work on the part of other road users. Which is why I also signal when driving the car.
The name of the guy you met up with is Moron Cager. We all see him or his wife from time to time.
Dchiefransom
If he was pulling a large boat, then he probably thought that any slowing down would result in him taking a while to get back up to speed with his underpowered two vehicle, or maybe he was just one of those people that is upset because someone else got in the way of his life.
Eli_Damon
My experience has been that cars rarely try to interfere with my signalled lane changes and when they do, they just speed up, making me wait for another gap. While I do get my share of nastiness from cars, it almost never happens in this type of situation. More often, it happens when the car either comes up right behind me or is trying move into my lane. Also, while it is polite in dense traffic to provide a gap for someone who is trying to get through, we should remember that there is no legal obligation to do so.
genec
Also, while it is polite in dense traffic to provide a gap for someone who is trying to get through, we should remember that there is no legal obligation to do so.
Have you noticed on the other hand that motorists seem to be closing gaps in general? I see "trains" of close spaced autos on the freeways. I notice that even on a quiet low traffic Sunday morning, motorists speed up to close the gap to the car in front of them, even if that means driving well over the speed limit to do so.
I need that gap... closing the gap means I have no room to signal (convey that signal to the next auto) or even to begin to move... and motorists seem to be erasing gaps everywhere...
What ever happened to the 3 second rule? Why must motorists speed up to fill up a gap that might otherwise be useful, if they only permitted that space to exist, rather than rush to fill it.
It is not like another gap won't come along... but somewhere behind that break is a motorist moving too fast to fill that gap, and that means my estimates of the size of the gap are wrong, as some motorist is speeding up, to close the gap.
Why not leave "fat gaps?" My son recently told me he leaves "fat gaps." I wasn't quite sure, until he took me out to dinner on father's day, what he meant by that... and it simply amounts to leaving better than the 3 second rule gap and not rushing (speeding) to fill the gap.
Let's be examples to others when we drive... leave "fat gaps."
Bekologist
This is off topic, but its smoother driving on the freeway if you stay in the gaps. you've all noticed how traffic runs in 'pods' on the freeway, right?
staying behind a pod, in the gap, allows smoother driving, better gas mileage, safer operating conditions, and a more relaxed drive.
Daily Commute
The honking driver may have had a valid point. According to a recent news article (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/tired_of_traffic_a_new_dot_report), government traffic people have determined that honking really does help you get through slow traffic more quickly.
My experience with signalling has been the same as John's. For me signalling is just part of road courtesy and helps eliminate guess work on the part of other road users. Which is why I also signal when driving the car. . . .
I find that drivers generally let me in when I signal. Signalling is part of being in traffic. Of course, there are both drivers and cyclists who think that anything in their way is where it doesn't belong.
Tom Stormcrowe
I prefer to move from gap to gap through or around the pods. Most of the pods that I see are left lane blockers that lack lane discipline.
So you likes to do the traffic dance, eh, Pete? It does make the drive or ride more interesting and if you read the next moves right from the clusters you can move through it quite efficiently. (See..... we don't always disagree!;) )
genec
I prefer to move from gap to gap through or around the pods. Most of the pods that I see are left lane blockers that lack lane discipline.
I agree... long trains of "pods" are usually seen in the left lane. The other thing I notice is that many people tailgate so they can use their cell phone... they focus only on the car right in front of them.
I'd hate to think that a "pod" was a whole bunch of people on cell phones. I have no idea... really.
Bekologist
continuing the off topic....
no, no, freeway traffic pools up in pods that entrench the entire row of lanes, faster traffic behind slower traffic. there's usually some slow drivers in the left lanes, preventing smooth passing of slower traffic, and truck traffic in the right lanes....
you'll notice significant congestion, and pools of vacant space ahead and behind pods on the freeway. its not just one lane dependant, its the entire freeway. look for them on your next long drive.
by getting ahead of one pod, and behind another, in the gaps, allows safer operating conditions with more open space around your vehicle, and a more relaxed drive. I'm not against shooting some gaps to get ahead of pods.
traffic congestion in pods is a significant traffic phenomenon and one that can be taken advantage of by a savvy driver.
CB HI
I get some disaproving looks when I use a point and shoot, "I'm going there" hand signal.
like, if I'm riding along, past a car stopped at an stopsign, or a car waiting to turn left in front of me, and I 'point and shoot' my intent.
a lot of drivers screw their faces up as if to show disapproval along the lines of "where does that bicyclist get off, showing ME what he's doing?"
And you think it is because of the hand signal rather than you butting in line ahead of a waiting motorist!
CB HI
This is off topic, but ...
Then why derail his thread?
Bekologist
i made no mention of filtering and using hand signals to cut in front, jackstrap.
and gene mentioned his son leaving fat gaps first.
my, your chamois are in a bunch this morning, CBHI.
tpelle
If the motorist was coming up behind you pulling a big boat, he may have been concerned about having to brake abruptly (you on your bicycle moving, presumably, so much slower than the traffic that he was speed-matched with) and possible having the boat start to "push" him.
Personally, I have not had problems like this. Just last week I had a situation on a narrow country road with limited visibility for passing, where one pickup truck was approaching from the opposite direction, and another was coming up behind me. It looked like the two trucks would meet just at about the point where the one approaching would be in position to make the pass. I was pretty sure that the truck approaching from behind could not see the other truck. I put my left arm out with the palm facing to the rear in a gesture that I hoped would be interpreted as a "hold up for a second". The truck approaching from the rear got the message, and when the other truck passed I waved the following truck around. As he passed he gave me a wave, so I think he appreciated my effort at "traffic control".
Mr. Underbridge
Well motorists do it to each other... around here the common misconception is that you don't use turn signals on the freeway as it causes others to speed up and cut you off. It is easy to see how that can carry over to surface streets.
I find however that a well timed signal from a bike usually works.
Don't know how liberally you define 'around here', but in the LA area that 'misconception' is absolutely true. I lived in LA for a few years, and I quickly learned of that effect the hard way (I'd never heard of it previously). In LA, If you put your turn signal on to indicate your desire to change lanes, people will speed up to close the gap more often than not. Where I grew up (midwest/south), this was not the case, so learning to drive in LA was interesting.
Fact is, most people drive like jackasses in areas where traffic is bad. I try to avoid it, but it's easy to see how you'd fall into it. Around here, the only people I'll *not* let over are people who try to pass in the turn lane or other idiotic things.
genec
Don't know how liberally you define 'around here', but in the LA area that 'misconception' is absolutely true. I lived in LA for a few years, and I quickly learned of that effect the hard way (I'd never heard of it previously). In LA, If you put your turn signal on to indicate your desire to change lanes, people will speed up to close the gap more often than not. Where I grew up (midwest/south), this was not the case, so learning to drive in LA was interesting.
Fact is, most people drive like jackasses in areas where traffic is bad. I try to avoid it, but it's easy to see how you'd fall into it. Around here, the only people I'll *not* let over are people who try to pass in the turn lane or other idiotic things.
Yup that pretty well defines it. When I drive it is an older 91 Toyota pickup... driven at or below speed limit and I always use turnsignals (not just when there is traffic about). Since I always use turnsignals, I frequently get that speed up and pass routine... after about the third car passes I start to slowly change lanes anyway... people have always gotten the message.
The ones that really bother me however are the maniacs that zip down the freeway like everyone is standing still. I look and ensure that the lane I am changing to is clear... that there is a gap for me to go into... but these maniacs come from nowhere, moving at very high speeds. I can look and no one is there, so I start my move and the next thing I know is a near miss from a low flying "rocket." :eek:
I have had the same thing happen while cycling... so this is not just a drive situation. When cycling, the near miss is usually a "pocket rocket" motorcycle that has weaved in and out of traffic and is attempting to fly by... the driver not being aware of my signal as I made it a few moments before they even saw me...
So yeah, I have this real "thing" about aholes speeding through traffic.
If we are at least all moving at the same relative speed, then the conditions remain somewhat fixed between backward glances. And no, I don't just depend on mirrors.
littlewaywelt
I have not noticed this being a pattern; more the opposite, in fact, as you also pointed out. I'm inclined to think you just got a bad one this time. He probably would have reacted the same way to your taking the lane without signalling. Who knows, maybe worse. +1
never get in front of something that either requires a lot of stopping room over a car or doesn't maneuver easily. trailers, trucks, etc.
I signal, make eye contact and assertivley get where I need to be.
CB HI
i made no mention of filtering and using hand signals to cut in front, jackstrap.
like, if I'm riding along, past a car stopped at an stopsign, or a car waiting to turn left in front of me, and I 'point and shoot' my intent.
Sounds like filtering to me!
sggoodri
I find that if I use a left hand signal, drivers approaching behind me slow down and are less likely to try to pass. They appear to assume that I will be turning left, even if I am just changing my position in the lane. This causes them to follow me for a while longer, I think, before they finally pass me after I've made a lane position change not followed by a left turn.
For this reason, I only signal a lateral position change when other drivers are close enough that I feel the need to negotiate with them. If they are farther away, after looking back I just move. However, if the move is part of a preparation for a turn, I'm signaling a lot, and drivers respond to my benefit.
CommuterRun
I find that if I use a left hand signal, drivers approaching behind me slow down and are less likely to try to pass. They appear to assume that I will be turning left, even if I am just changing my position in the lane. This causes them to follow me for a while longer, I think, before they finally pass me after I've made a lane position change not followed by a left turn.
For this reason, I only signal a lateral position change when other drivers are close enough that I feel the need to negotiate with them. If they are farther away, after looking back I just move. However, if the move is part of a preparation for a turn, I'm signaling a lot, and drivers respond to my benefit.
What I have found that works is:
Left Turn-Left arm fully extended 90º from my torso, index finger pointing.
Right Turn-The same with the right arm.
Lane Change or Lane Position Change-Like a full blown turn signal, but with one important difference. Instead of extending the arm out to 90º, I only extend it to 45º. Different from a slow or stop signal in that only my index finger is extended and the back of my hand is to the rear.
Slow or Stop-Left arm extended to 45º. Hand open, palm facing rearward, fingers extended and spread, arm waved in up-and-down motion.
The turn and lane or position change signals I do following a head turn, obviously, to check for a gap. Some motorists will take the head turn by itself as the signal, so I watch for this and if they slow to let me in, I still do the hand and arm signal. Some cagers will take the head turn as the signal and speed up to keep me from getting in front of them, so you gotta' watch for that too.
But that's just what I do and is not to say it will work for everybody in all areas.
Bekologist
CB HI, riding on a superior arterial past a person stopped at a stopsign is not filtering. riding a road, past someone turning left opposite me is not filtering.
it's riding according to the rules of the road.
however, when I use a hand signal to emphasise my intent - the "straight thru" hand signal, the "I'm not stopping" to let you cross in front or pull out in front of me, I see the ire on the driver's faces, as if to mime "who does that cyclist think he is, showing ME what he's doing?"
do you understand the difference, CBHI? or do you just like to complain about all my posts?
CB HI
Bek,
So you pull up alongside a motorist while you are in your very own separate lane;
you signal "I AM GOING TO GO STRAIGHT IN THIS LANE" or "point and shoot" as you call it;
and you are having a hard time understanding why the motorist look at you funny!
You also use the same signal to try and tell motorist that you are going to blow through the stop sign when they have already stopped at their sign, want to turn left and have the right of way!
I guess they would give you a look of “Who does this bicyclist think he is, running the stop sign when I have the right of way”.
Bekologist
you still don't get it, numbskull.
CB HI
More of your famous name calling!
Bekologist
clearly a lack of comprehension deserves the numbskull moniker.
what part of the rules of the road don't you understand? it seems you are just being rude...
CB HI, riding on a superior arterial past a person stopped at a stopsign is not filtering. riding a road, past someone turning left opposite me is not filtering.
it's riding according to the rules of the road.
Bekologist
I use hand signals to signal my intent, and sometimes hand signals are intrepreted by the drivers as rude cyclist behavior. those drivers are likely the ones that think cyclists shouldn't be on the roads in the first place.
CB HI
You invent your own "point and shoot" hand signal that no one else uses and you expect the motorist to understand.
You can not even clearly write in this forum how the signal is used and to what purpose it serves.
Bekologist
pointing to show direction isn't "inventing" anything! :roflmao: and, YES, pointing to show direction is a widely understood gesture, both on and off a bike.
CB HI
Not when it looks like you are giving them the one finger salute!
Todzilla
I used to wave motorists by me when it seemed safe to pass. However, I err'ed a couple of times and learned that I didn't want to be complicit in my own demise.
zeytoun
Not when it looks like you are giving them the one finger salute!
You're posts remind me of the comments of those old guys in the balcony on the Muppet show.
Except their comments made me laugh because they were clever; while your posts make me laugh because they have the stale odor of insecurity masked behind a big dog bark. Do you not get into enough pissing contests with your Hawaiian neighbors to release all your frustrations, haole?
----
A big part of vc is (allegedly) getting driver attention, behaving predictably, and getting them to treat you like a legitimate road user. Left hooks, and non-yielding right-turners are big problem areas, where drivers often treat cyclists inferior, and make their turns unsafely/impatiently. Bek uses a going straight signal. Others have good methods they use. I use a stop signal, until I make eye contact, then I give them a thumbs up.
What to you do? blow them a kiss?
CB HI
And it is clear from Bek's post that the motorist do not understand his so called "point and shot" hand signals. One reason is likely that his signal looks like a one finger salute. Others may think it is a threat, since to them, it may look like he is making a gun shape with his hand.
Discussion too much for you without making personal attacks?
zeytoun
Discussion too much for you without making personal attacks?
Must be.
I will try in the future to rise above, like you.
Bekologist
no, CB, you don't get it - they DO understand, but give me an offensive look, like I've described, that of "what does this cyclist get off, showing me what he's doing"
when I have the right of way, and emphasise it, drivers take offense.
by the way, what IS your technique, CBHI? Blowing them a kiss?
CB HI
Amazing how you have such problems with motorist, that other cyclist do not have. Most cyclist having the ROW simply go striaght without feeling some special need to make up some non-standard signal.
CB HI
So at intersections Bek, you need to do a point and shoot signal to tell motorist you are going straight or you have to do a vector wig-wag to convince the motorist you are turning left before you go striaght. Interesting style of riding and likely explains some of your accidents.
Bekologist
I speculate you don't have a method to ascertain right of way in ambiguous road situations, CBHI.
do you stop in the middle of the road when you have the right of way and it looks like you're moving into a potential left hook?
zeytoun
Amazing how you have such problems with motorist, that other cyclist do not have. Most cyclist having the ROW simply go straight without feeling some special need to make up some non-standard signal. I've stopped a dozen left-turning drivers as they were beginning to lurch forward. Maybe they would have stopped if I had not signaled to them, maybe they wouldn't. Of course, I've never been in an accident on my bike, or been run off the road by a soccer mom. But whatever works for you.
Bekologist
hit from behind by a taxi driver who was talking on his cellphone, personally.
no left hook collisions (knock on wood), and I find emphasising my direction does clarify my intent to left turners. and arouses some squirrely eyebrows in my direction.
but the drivers can bugger off. so can CBHI for that matter, if he can't discuss his signals to motorists and just wants to criticise mine.
(CBHI dislikes my beliefs that bike infrastructure has positive effects on the bikeability of communities, he's developed a vendetta against me and my posts.)
I'll reiterate my posts - signals from bicyclists sometime raises the ire of motorists. I agree with the OP.
Bikepacker67
I think someone needs to get lei'd.
CB HI
I think someone needs to get lei'd.
You are right, if Bek returns to Hawaii, we will make sure he gets lei'd.:D
hotbike
If it were me, and I saw that the guy was towing a boat, I wouldv'e pulled over and dismounted to let him go by.
Boat trailers are often wider than the car that is towing them.