Originally posted by scarry
There is no law that requires a vehicle to maintain the posted speed limit, you are quite wrong.
The speed limit is the MAXIMUM ALLOWED SPEED not the required speed. The safe speed may be less than the speed limit depending on traffic and conditions (ie. bikes on the road).
You can drive at any speed under or equal to the limit, provided:
your speed is safe for the traffic conditions - eg, busy road, pedestrians, joggers, etc
your speed is safe for the road conditions - eg, bumpy, narrow, wet or icy roads
your speed is safe for the weather conditions - eg, rain, wind or fog
you can stop short of a vehicle that you are following - if a vehicle ahead of you stops suddenly and you run into the back of it, you will be in the wrong
on a road with no centre line or lanes (eg, a narrow country road where vehicles may meet head-on) you can stop in half the length of clear road you can see in front of you
on a road with a centre line or lanes, you can stop in the length of clear lane you can see in front of you
How about this - JUST BE COURTEOUS !!! Can you handle that? Probably not. Get real with your cause!!!
scarry
08-22-03, 11:58 AM
Critical Mass riders are so COURTEOUS that some riders have been know to take off their shirts and wash the windshields of cars waiting at lights.
Others have been so COURTEOUS as to actually lick the tires of other cars to give them that "like new shine".
And others have been known, just as a COURTESY to folks who have to breath to stay alive, to stuff a banana in the tailpipe of cars that were smoking.
:rolleyes:
Bobatin
08-22-03, 12:10 PM
Critical Mass riders are so COURTEOUS that some riders have been know to take off their shirts and wash the windshields of cars waiting at lights.
Others have been so COURTEOUS as to actually lick the tires of other cars to give them that "like new shine".
And others have been known, just as a COURTESY to folks who have to breath to stay alive, to stuff a banana in the tailpipe of cars that were smoking.
Excuse me, what are you promoting again? :confused:
Stor Mand
08-22-03, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by scarry
Critical Mass riders are so COURTEOUS that some riders have been know to take off their shirts and wash the windshields of cars waiting at lights.
Others have been so COURTEOUS as to actually lick the tires of other cars to give them that "like new shine".
And others have been known, just as a COURTESY to folks who have to breath to stay alive, to stuff a banana in the tailpipe of cars that were smoking.
:rolleyes:
Hmmm .. call me crazy but I don't think that is going to help cycling to be more accepted. Although putting the like new shine on the tires is a very nice thing to do :D .
The Rob
08-22-03, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by scarry
Critical Mass riders are so COURTEOUS that some riders have been know to take off their shirts and wash the windshields of cars waiting at lights.
Others have been so COURTEOUS as to actually lick the tires of other cars to give them that "like new shine".
And others have been known, just as a COURTESY to folks who have to breath to stay alive, to stuff a banana in the tailpipe of cars that were smoking.
:rolleyes:
You know that whole positive promotion thingy I was exhorting in the earlier posts, randya? scarry here doesn't quite have it right. :p
randya
08-22-03, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by ehenz
the obvious solution would be to create a cohesive cycling lobby that we could all (most) get on-board with. All other special interests groups seem to have one.
Even if you forget about Critical Mass for just one moment, I challenge you to get John Forrester and the Vehicular Cycling crowd in the same room and agreeing with the League of American Bicyclists, Rails-to-Trails (or whoever) and the rest of the Separated Path people...
The point being, once again, that it takes all kinds of cyclists with multiple agendas and approaches to make a dent in the autocentric status quo...
In-fighting will get us nowhere. Critical Mass isn't picking a fight with y'all; why are y'all picking a fight with Critical Mass???
randya
08-22-03, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by RobCat
You know that whole positive promotion thingy I was exhorting in the earlier posts, randya? scarry here doesn't quite have it right. :p
I believe scarry is engaging in sarcasm, in response to the unrelenting inability of certain other posters here to agree to acknowledge that perhaps, just perhaps, Critical Mass is one of many effective tools in the cyclists' rights tool kit.
Bobatin
08-23-03, 07:27 AM
CM is an effective tool for getting cyclists banned from the streets.
randya
08-23-03, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Bobatin
CM is an effective tool for getting cyclists banned from the streets.
In your dreams.
late
08-23-03, 06:47 PM
Randya,
I suggest you learn what has gone before.
randya
08-23-03, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by late
I suggest you learn what has gone before.
Please, educate me.
late
08-23-03, 07:39 PM
If, and when, you want to learn....you will.
randya
08-23-03, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by late
If, and when, you want to learn....you will.
Now that's simply avoiding the issue, and plainly assinine.
The truth is, you can't back up your assertion that Critical Mass is 'bad' for bicycling or bicyclists with one real fact, or that CM has caused bicycles or bicyclists to be 'banned' from the streets of one single town or city.
The truth is, every city that has an active and vibrant Critical Mass ride, also has more and better bicycling infrastructure and amenities, more people riding bicycles as their primary form of transportation, and more community among cyclists, than anywhere that bicyclists simply age and die waiting oh-so-politely for the local bureaucrats to provide them with public ammenities like safe places to ride and park their bicycles--it ain't gonna happen without direct action, folks.
The truth is, in the aftermath of the police riot at Critical Mass in San Francisco in July 1997, that city blossomed with new bicycle commuters and new bicycle infrastructure like never before. Likewise, in Portland, Oregon, in the aftermath of a police riot at Critical Mass in August 2002, two major bicycle culture groups were founded that filled this city with fun bicycle events other than Critical Mass, and ridership city-wide is up substantially, as is the feeling of community among cyclists of all sorts.
So, I don't know what y'all are doing to improve conditions for bicycling in your town, but I'll be out on the Critical Mass ride this Friday...
late
08-23-03, 08:54 PM
It's spelled asinine. I have noticed that an insult usually tells you something that it's author fears may be true of himself. That would also be the case
with your 'avoiding the issue' accusation. It was a mistake to return to this thread.
Stor Mand
08-23-03, 11:01 PM
So answer this .. what's wrong with being courteous to others on the road? Why not do it legally and get a permit? How does breaking traffic laws and blocking traffic help the cycling community or your cause? Please help me to understand because I'm sure there are others that don't see how you are helping.
randya
08-24-03, 02:39 AM
There is nothing wrong with being courteous to other road users. Most Critical Mass participants are, both during a CM ride, and for the other 717 hours, or 99.7%, of every month.
Once again, CM is not, as you seem to think, simply a law-breaking joy ride. It is a demonstration that bicyclists are legitimate road users that have a right to both access and safety on our public streets.
Last time I checked, no special permits are required for the twice-daily automobile Critical Mass known as rush hour; there is therefore no reason for a monthly bicycle rush hour to have to obtain any such special permits.
If you still don't understand -- if, and when, you want to learn...you will.
Stor Mand
08-24-03, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by randya
There is nothing wrong with being courteous to other road users. Most Critical Mass participants are, both during a CM ride, and for the other 717 hours, or 99.7%, of every month.
Once again, CM is not, as you seem to think, simply a law-breaking joy ride. It is a demonstration that bicyclists are legitimate road users that have a right to both access and safety on our public streets.
Last time I checked, no special permits are required for the twice-daily automobile Critical Mass known as rush hour; there is therefore no reason for a monthly bicycle rush hour to have to obtain any such special permits.
If you still don't understand -- if, and when, you want to learn...you will.
Well, you answered one question. Thanks. No, there isn't anything wrong with being courteous so why do CMers think they are above the law and blow through lights and just doddle along? You don't have special privledges on the road. I think you may be the one that needs to learn.
jester69
08-24-03, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by randya
Once again, CM is not, as you seem to think, simply a law-breaking joy ride. It is a demonstration that bicyclists are legitimate road users that have a right to both access and safety on our public streets.
If CM'ers wanted to be legitimate road users they woudn't run red lights.
peas,
Jester
randya
08-24-03, 02:56 PM
Fine, so I won't be seeing you on the next Critical Mass ride. I can live with that, as long as you can live with the fact that I and others will be out in the streets riding in the next CM. Now why don't we all just agree to disagree about CM and put this issue to rest for awhile? Or, if you'd rather just keep trying to get the last word in, we could all start in repeating ourselves again on what I would guess to be Round 4.
The Rob
08-24-03, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by randya
Fine, so I won't be seeing you on the next Critical Mass ride. I can live with that, as long as you can live with the fact that I and others will be out in the streets riding in the next CM. Now why don't we all just agree to disagree about CM and put this issue to rest for awhile? Or, if you'd rather just keep trying to get the last word in, we could all start in repeating ourselves again on what I would guess to be Round 4.
Cool with me, just know that I for one support the base concept if not CM's methodology. All movements evolve if they're worthy, and I look forward to when Critical Mass lets it's positive facets come to the fore.
Best of luck! <----This is not meant as sarcasm!
:D
-Rob
Max
08-24-03, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by jester69
If CM'ers wanted to be legitimate road users they woudn't run red lights.
peas,
Jester
Occasional red light is the fair game for any cyclist. Or am I wrong?
randya
08-24-03, 11:47 PM
Ah, yes--running red lights. They just keep bringing it up over and over because it's basically all they've got to point to that's potentially wrong with CM, except maybe that CM rides a bit too slow for them. If CM stopped running lights, would they stop criticizing CM? I dunno. I say let's just give it a rest and agree to disagree...and go on our ride this week and have some fun reeducating the motorists, eh?
jester69
08-25-03, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by randya
Fine, so I won't be seeing you on the next Critical Mass ride. I can live with that, as long as you can live with the fact that I and others will be out in the streets riding in the next CM.
Sounds fair to me, I had sworn of this thread anyway, until I saw that last bit I replied to.
I accept that you will go ahead and ride anyway, and will leave it at that.
However, don't post here expecting sympathy if, in breaking the law, CM'ers happen to get arrested for doing so. Part of civil disobedience is sometimes getting popped for the crimes you commit in the name of social justice. If you feel your crimes are worthy, then they are worthy of taking responsibility for.
Like rob said, good luck and I mean that sincerely.
take care,
Jester
Ebbtide
08-28-03, 09:31 AM
FYI:
I light of my feelings on CM (see my posts), and at the request of some posters to try a CM event, I will be attending our local CM this Friday (8/29) to see for myself what the feel of the "gathering" is all about. Not sure about elsewhere, but Cleveland's ride does not start until 6:00, which seems okay since downtown will be empty by then.
I'll report my findings later this weekend if I'm not in jail or the hospital (highly doubtful).
ehenz
The Rob
08-28-03, 10:46 PM
I'm looking forward to reading your report, ehenz. Here's hoping both the Massers and the constabulary are on their best behavior! :D
Ebbtide
08-29-03, 09:14 AM
Well, it looks like I'll just have to wait until next month due a last minute change in plans. I needed my car for work today (those pesky job descriptions), so no bike today.
I was really surprised to see Cleveland has a CM. Up until I searched the CM website I did not know. Looking at the pictures and reading the reports it seems quite harmless. I think the only problem I have is being grouped in with the knuckleheads of the events. I am actually looking forward to it, I'd love to meet some new cycling friends.