I had a run-in with the cager-from-hell yesterday...
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SDRider
So, I'm out in Palm Springs for the weekend with my wife and son and I took my road bike along so that I could get in a couple rides in during the early morning before it got oppressively hot. I rode 20 miles on Friday and another 20 miles yesterday. I was about 15 miles into my ride yesterday riding down Rt 111 in Rancho Mirage towards Palm Springs when some jackass in a Toyota Tundra buzzed me. I threw my left hand into the air to express my displeasure at how close he passed me (traffic was very very light and I was on a road with 3 lanes in each direction-no bike lanes).
Anyway, right after my hand gesture he slows to a stop not far ahead of me. I immediately tried to determine if he had a passenger in his truck but couldn't tell right away so I decided to try to go around his stopped truck on the left rather than have him force me off the side of the road. As I rode up along side him he accelerated to stay with me and started confronting me. He said something about another cyclist who was killed riding on this particular road to which I responded that I have every right to be riding on this road as he does (I actually yelled that at him since he was yelling at me).
Meanwhile, he's matching my speed and forcing me out into the next lane at the same time. Then he accused me of flipping him off, which I absolutely did not do and I told him so, then he took a swing at me just brushing my right arm. Traffic is coming up behind us now and I'm all the way into the third lane with people honking at us. He proceeds to drive off and I'm left wondering what the hell this guy's problem is.
I just shrugged the whole experience off and continue on my ride trying not to be pissed off about it since I'm okay. Then about a 1/2 mile up the road I see someone standing at a corner and quickly realize it's the same idiot who I just had the confrontation with. He's waiting for me and pointing to the intersection and as I ride by he's screaming that this is where that other cyclist was killed and that he was killed because he was a "fscking prick, just like you are."
I rode by him veering out into the roadway to avoid getting into a physical confrontation with this guy who is obviously unstable...not to mention he was about 100lbs heavier than me. So, I got a pretty good description of his vehicle and of him so I phoned it in to the Riverside County Sheriff's office. Hopefully, they'll pick this a-hole up at some point before he kills someone (a long shot but I remain hopeful).
I wished I had my cell phone...which I did not. I also wish I took note of his license plate number. I'd press charges against that dirty scumbag in a heartbeat. :mad:
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100 lbs heavier than you? He needs to start riding a bike...
Boss Moniker
Good thing you're okay.. it was shrewd of you to avoid stopping.
Maybe you should look up the supposed accident, see if someone was charged for it. The guy seemed to be implying he was responsible, and if the police think they're looking for a killer rather than a JAM, then they'd probably look harder.
SDRider
Here's a simple solution to your road rager problems.
Get off the road and into the hills above Palm Springs/Palm Desert. The riding and scenery is much better.
I did that for a while. I wound up injuring myself a few times and after seeing a good friend shatter his ankle, spend a week in the hospital, and months recovering I decided I was safer going back to road riding...which is my passion anyway.
Blue Order
I find it interesting that he was SO concerned about cycling safety that he felt compelled to buzz you, before attempting to force you into oncoming traffic.
sgtsmile
I did that for a while. I wound up injuring myself a few times and after seeing a good friend shatter his ankle, spend a week in the hospital, and months recovering I decided I was safer going back to road riding...which is my passion anyway.
heh, except that off road, you rarely get JAMed.....
But I understand your desire to go with your passion.
Glad you were ok:)
jpatkinson
I threw my left hand into the air to express my displeasure at how close he passed me ...
I did the exact same thing as I was 'buzzed' by someone in a van on my century yesterday, then realized that it could create all kinds of problems: anyone screwed-up enough to drive that close to a cyclist is not someone who will 'learn' from me raising my hand in the air in anger. If anything, you only provoke the person further.
We just need to keep cycling in the roads, obeying the laws, and remembering that the benefits of cycling FAR outweight the risks!!
- JP
Cyclaholic
Then about a 1/2 mile up the road I see someone standing at a corner and quickly realize it's the same idiot who I just had the confrontation with. He's waiting for me and pointing to the intersection and as I ride by he's screaming that this is where that other cyclist was killed and that he was killed because he was a "fscking prick, just like you are."
At this point he's lucky it was you and not me.
CommuterRun
...He said something about another cyclist who was killed riding on this particular road...
So, how many people in cars have been killed on this road? Bet it's more, probably a lot more.
Ask him that.
Gromit
That guy has psycho killer (qu'est-ce que c'est) written across his forehead. Strange he seems to know exactly where and why another cyclist was killed :eek:
kjmillig
Always have that cell phone!!!! Preferably with pic capability. A quick call to 911 saying you're being attacked, or at least threatened, by a road rager, giving a vehicle and driver desription and plate number is a good defense. The moment he stops in front of you is the time to call. That's the sign he plans on doing something.
SDRider
Always have that cell phone!!!! Preferably with pic capability. A quick call to 911 saying you're being attacked, or at least threatened, by a road rager, giving a vehicle and driver desription and plate number is a good defense. The moment he stops in front of you is the time to call. That's the sign he plans on doing something.
Believe me, the cell phone is coming with me from now on, I don't care if I have to tape it to my handlebars. :D I wasn't wearing a cycling jersey on this ride though, just a Performance brand short sleeve shirt without pockets otherwise I would have had my cell phone...which does have a camera.
SDRider
At this point he's lucky it was you and not me.
I would imagine that it's kind of difficult to fight with road cycling shoes on.
twobikes
The advice for handling road rage in an automobile is never to do anything that challenges or responds to the rage prone person. In retrospect, your initial hand gesture probably did not help the situation, wrong as he was to buzz you.
I saw the movie "Munich" and was disappointed that it deviated from the source book, "Vengeance," on something interesting. The girl who lived on the houseboat had lured and killed one of the counter-terrorist team. When the three remaining members of the team went to confront her the movie shows them using pistols. Actually, they had bicycles modified in a special way because bicycles are so prevalent in Holland and no one would think anything of three guys out on bicycles. The top tube on these bicycles was a cut-away that snaps out and was chambered for a .22 long rifle bullet fired with a spring mechanism. That is what they used to eliminate her when she reached for a gun in a drawer (as per the book). Maybe a bike so equipped would equalize such encounters. (I hope you realize I am not really serious.)
Someone did tell me he always carried a small pistol in a holster attached above his hip when he rode in one particular state. Drivers gave him a wide berth when passing. It would not even need to be a real pistol. A realistic plastic replica would do.
flipped4bikes
Road ragers are never concerned about anyone's safety. They're only PO'd as to why you are inconveniencing them...
CaptainTandem
Here's a simple solution to your road rager problems.
Get off the road and into the hills above Palm Springs/Palm Desert. The riding and scenery is much better.
I've learned, through experience, to just ignore as much as possible, the JAMs. Better to let them fly by and keep riding than to gesture or say anything. Then, you get this predictable behavior. I find it hard to believe how many people are set to take on their fellow patriot over the slightest provocation.
Things are not right in this country. People are way too uptight.
banerjek
....He proceeds to drive off and I'm left wondering what the hell this guy's problem is....
.....I rode by him veering out into the roadway to avoid getting into a physical confrontation with this guy who is obviously unstable...
And therein lies the answer. Never assume the people you are dealing with are rational. Statistically, we all encounter murderers, dope addicts, and people with a litany of mental disorders on the road.
Few people go out of their way to be so hostile to cyclists. It's probably a safe assumption that of those that do, a disproportionate percentage are not "normal".
genec
Here's a simple solution to your road rager problems.
Get off the road and into the hills above Palm Springs/Palm Desert. The riding and scenery is much better.
Wow. Nice shot.
Too bad I prefer that 14-17MPH breeze in my face as I exercise.
Mr. Underbridge
I find it interesting that he was SO concerned about cycling safety that he felt compelled to buzz you, before attempting to force you into oncoming traffic.
See, that's the best bit. Assuming there was one, I'm trying to figure out what his point was. Some candidates:
1) Cyclists get killed on this part of the road so I'll try to scare you straight.
2) We kill areshole cyclists in these here parts.
3) You scared the hell out of me on this deserted road where I had dozed off and barely woke up in time to avoid you.
4) I forgot to take my medication this morning.
The fact that he tried to point out the danger to the OP seems to indicate that he almost cares - of course that would tend to be contraindicated by the fact that he tried to run him off the road.
Can't figure it out. I'd much rather ride in the road in relatively heavy city traffic than ride on these deserted roads any day.
Brusheda
The JAM is probably trying to justify in his mind actions that he knows are stupid and dangerous. He is trying to convince himself that he was convincing someone to ride somewhere safer.
rapidskies
A fellow ATOTer and BFer ;) Glad you made ok!
tpelle
It would not even need to be a real pistol. A realistic plastic replica would do.
If you're gonna carry a pistol, better to make it a real pistol (and know how to use it)!
SDRider
A fellow ATOTer and BFer ;) Glad you made ok!
Thanks. Thanks everyone actually. :beer:
Yeah, my thread on this topic was met with many less cordial responses over there unfortunately. :rolleyes: Sometimes I wonder why I bother posting there...especially with the way the forums are so screwed up there lately.
kjmillig
Someone did tell me he always carried a small pistol in a holster attached above his hip when he rode in one particular state. Drivers gave him a wide berth when passing. It would not even need to be a real pistol. A realistic plastic replica would do.
In most states open carry is illegal and will draw police attention, an in most states police can charge you even if the pistol isn't real, because you intended for people to think it's real. In many cities, it will also draw the attention of those who will challenge you just to see what you're going to do with it. As a concealed carry license holder and firearms instructor, I have to say, openly carrying a fake gun can get you in LOTS of trouble.
fat biker
Call me a sissy if you like. I find crap like this really scary.
Example: Morning commute to work, four lane "back road", mix of commerical and residential. Approaching the bus stop, two kids on the sidewalk, one of them has what looks like a short bat is his hands. As I approach, punk steps to the edge of the sidewalk, turns to face traffic and takes a batting stance. I check my mirror, move to the left edge of the #2 lane and clip out of the pedals. Punk remains on the sidewalk waving the bat. I ride past, slow down and turn to get a better look at the punk. One of his buddies yells "Fxxx You" I respond with "NO, Fxxx YOU!"
Like I said, pretty scary stuff out there. Ride safe.
Jeff, still fat
nova
Why do so many cyclists turn tail and run and or back down from fights with bozo motorists?
Seriously when we back down from a fight not only do we end up looking like wimps on a personal level we make it harder on other cyclists.
Think about it this way. When one cyclists backs down driver bozos expect it of all of us. So the rest get more hassle because others back down. Think of the bozo drivers as dogs. By backing down from their threats and running you reinforce the behavior so they are more apt to repeat it.
The more cyclists that back down the more aggressive the driver in question will become. At some point he will be likely to run down a cyclist.
genec
Why do so many cyclists turn tail and run and or back down from fights with bozo motorists?
Seriously when we back down from a fight not only do we end up looking like wimps on a personal level we make it harder on other cyclists.
Think about it this way. When one cyclists backs down driver bozos expect it of all of us. So the rest get more hassle because others back down. Think of the bozo drivers as dogs. By backing down from their threats and running you reinforce the behavior so they are more apt to repeat it.
The more cyclists that back down the more aggressive the driver in question will become. At some point he will be likely to run down a cyclist.
Two reasons... if they use their mass as a weapon... motorists win automatically. Second if it is a person to person fight... ever try to fight in bike shoes?
donnamb
Two reasons... if they use their mass as a weapon... motorists win automatically. Second if it is a person to person fight... ever try to fight in bike shoes?
Thirdly, some of us just don't produce enough testosterone to feel aggressive enough for a "fight".
JaredG
these stories freak me out too.
comradehoser
[edit: this was a response to nova's idea of not backing down to aggro motorists:]
having a bad temper and having nearly gotten into a fistfight on my own while biking (long story), it struck me that in DC, it's a lose-lose proposition.
either you lose the fight, and that sucks,
or you win, and then the dude goes back to the car and shoots you, or scouts you out for the next couple of days to run you over and/or shoot you.
shootings over fistfights happen all the time around here.
SingingSabre
Two reasons... if they use their mass as a weapon... motorists win automatically. Second if it is a person to person fight... ever try to fight in bike shoes?
Thirdly, some of us just don't produce enough testosterone to feel aggressive enough for a "fight".
Fourthly, we need our bodies in shape to ride. Motorists push levers with their feet, we fight Sir Isaac Newton. If we get injured it's certainly harder to get around than for an injured motorist...
EDIT: here's a solution that will probably not work, but is fun to dream of!
"A cyclist was killed here 'cause he was being an ***hole!"
"Really? Thanks for caring so much about me and warning me. Want a hug?"
:)
CB HI
...
Seriously when we back down from a fight not only do we end up looking like wimps on a personal level we make it harder on other cyclists.
Think about it this way. When one cyclists backs down driver bozos expect it of all of us. So the rest get more hassle because others back down. Think of the bozo drivers as dogs. By backing down from their threats and running you reinforce the behavior so they are more apt to repeat it.
The more cyclists that back down the more aggressive the driver in question will become. At some point he will be likely to run down a cyclist.
What you say is true, but it is important to understand that not everyone has the mind set or abilities to engage these people in a fight if it escalates.
As long as they do not give us grief for our choice, we should not jump on them for their choice.
Everyone should be aware that many of these JAMs have been in trouble with the law before (it is their nature). So simply pulling out a cell phone and calling 911 sends them running in fear.
littlewaywelt
Why do so many cyclists turn tail and run and or back down from fights with bozo motorists?
Seriously when we back down from a fight not only do we end up looking like wimps on a personal level we make it harder on other cyclists.
Think about it this way. When one cyclists backs down driver bozos expect it of all of us. So the rest get more hassle because others back down. Think of the bozo drivers as dogs. By backing down from their threats and running you reinforce the behavior so they are more apt to repeat it.
The more cyclists that back down the more aggressive the driver in question will become. At some point he will be likely to run down a cyclist.
That's flat out ridiculous. Pll back down because they are mature enough to understand that a physical fight with someone doesn't solve anything, and has substantial risks, ie jail and or prison if things get out of hand. They also understand that an exchange of heated words has 0 likelihood of changing the driver's opinions or habits as they relate to driving and bicyclists. It costs you nothing to walk/ride away; it could cost you everything if you let your ego get in the way of rational, civilized behavior.
If you are worried about looking like a whimp to someone you're unlikely to encounter again in your entire life your insecurities won't be improved by a confrontation with a motorist. If you do or don't get the better of the driver, physically or via a battle of words, do you honestly think the driver will be any less peeved? No way. Anything you do will only increase his anger towards cyclists. Better to let him think he's the tough guy he thinks he is.
Applying dog psychology to this situation is ridiculous. People are not dogs. And don't forget that some dogs only get angrier the more the get poked. They don't always back down because there's a bigger dog challenging them.
hotbike
Good thing you're okay.. it was shrewd of you to avoid stopping.
Maybe you should look up the supposed accident, see if someone was charged for it. The guy seemed to be implying he was responsible, and if the police think they're looking for a killer rather than a JAM, then they'd probably look harder.
Yay, I second that notion. The driver seemed to be implying that it was HE who offed the cyclist.
Artkansas
Having ridden in Coachella Valley for 8 years, I have to say that that fellow was the exception rather than the rule.
But I think it it were me, when he stopped, I'd stop. And refuse to move till he leaves.
He's already shown that he cares more about dealing with you than where he is going, and as such is very dangerous. I'd never get in front of him and make it easy for him to run me down.
Fortunately, I guess I never ran into him in my years there.
nova
Two reasons... if they use their mass as a weapon... motorists win automatically. Second if it is a person to person fight... ever try to fight in bike shoes?
in fact yeh i have. Time challenge no less. Its not all that hard really i got in a confrontation with a driver in a pick up truck not to far from where i lived. I was heading to the gas station to grab a 2 litter or root beer. This bozo pull across the street and stops blocking my path.I started to go around behind him and he backed up. No way was i going to go in front of him. So i unclipped set my bike down and confronted him. I kept him in his truck by basically caving in the drivers door further than it already was. Simply put i was not about to let this sucker get control of the situation as he would then be at the advantage.
Backing down from fights is not nearly always the answer. You want to take control of the situation as fast as possible. This is esp true with a person much bigger than your self.
twobikes
In most states open carry is illegal and will draw police attention, an in most states police can charge you even if the pistol isn't real, because you intended for people to think it's real. In many cities, it will also draw the attention of those who will challenge you just to see what you're going to do with it. As a concealed carry license holder and firearms instructor, I have to say, openly carrying a fake gun can get you in LOTS of trouble.
Good points. I do not remember what state it was where someone had a small pistol on his belt. More realistically, I had thoughts about getting a "T" shirt printed with words on the back that say, "My brother is a lawyer."