I just realized that from now on, I can use being car-free as a defense against pushy vegetarians.

Nothing ruins a good steak like an avid vegetarian trying to guilt trip me. So next time they ask me how I can eat meat when I know it hurts animals, I ask them "how can you buy oil, knowing that it kills 1.2 mil each year?"

Yeah, till you meet a car-free vegetarian. ;) Then you're back where you started.

OR a vegan.

I would just say I need my complete protien for cycling. Something you can't give me.

OR a vegan.

I would just say I need my complete protien for cycling. Something you can't give me.

I think they would just argue that a vegitarian diet can supply complete proteins, like a combination of beans and rice is supposed to.

I tell them that it's 100% grain fed beef, so essentially I'm eating 100% grains just in a different form :D ...and that I am philosophically opposed to cruelty to plants because combine harvesters are a cruel and barbaric method of ending a wheat stalk's life.:p

I think they would just argue that a vegitarian diet can supply complete proteins, like a combination of beans and rice is supposed to.

Turns out that we as humans tend to overconsume proteins. A sensible vegetarian diet can more than supply the daily needed amount of protein. It just doesn't taste as good. :)

Every Vegan I know looks like they are about to die.

I met a man in kentucky at a cycling thing and as soon as he walked through the door I said to myself, "vegan."


Sure enough.

Im sure there are exceptions to that rule and there is a big difference between a vegan and say a vegetarian who eats fish, eggs etc.

Every Vegan I know looks like they are about to die.

I met a man in kentucky at a cycling thing and as soon as he walked through the door I said to myself, "vegan."


Sure enough.

Im sure there are exceptions to that rule and there is a big difference between a vegan and say a vegetarian who eats fish, eggs etc.

I think our perception of how healthy looks is a little bit skewed these days. I would agree that if you do not mindfully make sure that all of your vegan foods are fulfilling your daily requirements you will have troubles looking "healthy".

I tell them that it's 100% grain fed beef, so essentially I'm eating 100% grains just in a different form :D ...and that I am philosophically opposed to cruelty to plants because combine harvesters are a cruel and barbaric method of ending a wheat stalk's life.:p


The one I'm waiting for is the Microbial Rights Movement. "Ban antibiotics, bacteria are god's creatures, too." :D

Every Vegan I know looks like they are about to die.

I met a man in kentucky at a cycling thing and as soon as he walked through the door I said to myself, "vegan."


Sure enough.

Im sure there are exceptions to that rule and there is a big difference between a vegan and say a vegetarian who eats fish, eggs etc.

Yeah, what's up with that? Most I know look unhealthy. One guy I know is vegan is about 6'2 and probbably wears a size 26-28 waist and would guess weighs in around 130 or so. First time I met him I figured he was strung out on drugs, found out later he doesen't drink or use drugs. Really a great guy but man he looks scary thin. I have to admit though every so often I have a vegitarian day, but I love beef jerky to much to even think of that life style more than a day.

The one I'm waiting for is the Microbial Rights Movement. "Ban antibiotics, bacteria are god's creatures, too." :D

+1!:roflmao:

I guess I might have to do penance for all those poor microbes and bacteria(not to mention fungi, molds and viruses) we "murdered" for the sake of research in microbiology:p

Aaron:)

I think they would just argue that a vegitarian diet can supply complete proteins, like a combination of beans and rice is supposed to.


A vegetarian diet does supply complete proteins. It's just that vegetarians are so damn tough...

turk

I just realized that from now on, I can use being car-free as a defense against pushy vegetarians.

Nothing ruins a good steak like an avid vegetarian trying to guilt trip me. So next time they ask me how I can eat meat when I know it hurts animals, I ask them "how can you buy oil, knowing that it kills 1.2 mil each year?"


Maybe tomorrow you will wake up with a more logical idea - 'cause this one is ridiculous.

My vegan sister in-law is a vegan. She looks like death as well.

The thing is, I'm not so concerned about living forever and being healthy that I'm willing to put off the fantastic joys of juicy steak and spicy chicken for 40 years.

As for cruelty to animals, eh. You can't win 'em all, and animals exist to be eaten, I say!

I'm sure the vego-nazis will be along shortly to attack.

Yeah, what's up with that? Most I know look unhealthy. One guy I know is vegan is about 6'2 and probbably wears a size 26-28 waist and would guess weighs in around 130 or so. First time I met him I figured he was strung out on drugs, found out later he doesen't drink or use drugs. Really a great guy but man he looks scary thin. I have to admit though every so often I have a vegitarian day, but I love beef jerky to much to even think of that life style more than a day.

I think people in the U.S. just tend to have bad eating habits and vegans are no better than the rest of us. I know a fair few healthy (and healthy looking) vegans and two that are definitely on the chubby side. I also know plenty that look like death warmed over. Considering that about 32% of the adult population is overweight or obese, it makes sense that vegans would make equally poor eating decisions.

Just for the record, you can file me under car-lite, non-overweight, meat-eater.

I'm sure the vego-nazis will be along shortly to attack.

I know it hurts your precious feelings when someone yells at you for eating meat, but comparing that to the systematic slaughter of homosexuals, POWs, the disabled, Jehova's Witnesses, not to mention the wholesale genocide of Jews and the Roma, and of course massive militarism and political repression is a bit of a stretch.

How about vego-McCarthyites of vego-PMRC instead?

I work with a girl who is a vegetarian.

This is a true story.

One day she was going on and on about the ills of meat and how bad it is for people. As she was telling us this she was eating her normal lunch of french fries and a bottle of coke.

That just about killed me. I was trying so hard NOT to call her an idiot.

Tell them if "we" couldn't eat steak, cows would go extinct -competition for land and all.;)

Tell them if "we" couldn't eat steak, cows would go extinct -competition for land and all.;)

No..they'd still hang on in India ;)

I'm surprised all of this vege-bashing is coming from people on the car-free forum, which is full of threads on saving money, helping the environment and how oil companies control the world.

I hope this link works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihDGCswNvSk

I'm surprised all of this vege-bashing is coming from people on the car-free forum, which is full of threads on saving money, helping the environment and how oil companies control the world.

I have to agree, at least to some extent. The current meat production methods with grain feeding in factory farms is definitely disgusting and very wasteful and anti-environmental. If all the cattle were raised with grazing alone, and on land already available for that, I don't think it would be so objectionable since cattle graze on vegetable matter that humans cannot consume directly, but only after being processed by a ruminant digestive system and converted into the ruminant's body mass.

I rarely eat beef myself. I prefer pork, especially long pig. I tried hufu, but it just wasn't the same. :D

cattle spend the first 1.5 years of their life on grass and then spend the last couple weeks in a feed lot.

If I here the factory farming lie about beef one more time I think I will vomit.

cattle spend the first 1.5 years of their life on grass and then spend the last couple weeks in a feed lot.

If I here the factory farming lie about beef one more time I think I will vomit.

So where does this pervasive myth about "grain-fed beef" come from?

the few weeks they spend getting "finished" in a feed lot.

There are three types of cattle farms.

#1. Cow/calf operations. These are farms and ranches where cows raise their calves until they are about 6 months old. These cattle are on grass pastures in places typically not suitable for row crop production. At 6 months of age these calves are typically sold at local sale barns. These are almost always family operations.

#2. Backgrounding cattle. This is someone who takes 6 month old calves freshly weaned from their mothers and puts them on pasture for about 1 year. These steers and heifers will gain several hundred more pounds during this time period. These are almost always family operations.

#3. Feed lot. This is where the animals are brought and jointly housed in large outdoor "lots" where they are fed a hay/grain mixture. The purpose of this is to "fatten" the animals up to increase marbleing inside of the muscle and to increase overall body weight.

This is a relatively short time period and this is almost always done by large corporations who typically own a processing plant too.

Long hair left wing city boys who decry the "factory farming" spread the myth that your typical piece of beef was standing in its own poo since the day it was born in some type of environment resembling a factory.

There are decisions we can make to reduce our impact on the environment, like riding our bikes instead of driving cars. This is perhaps the theme of the car-free forum. There are plenty of other things we can consider doing to reduce our environmental impact, like buying locally grown foods, taking shorter showers and eating less meat. Ragging on idiot vegetarians/vegans may be fun and in some cases justified, but is it not also idiotic to ignore or blow off the fact that the meat/dairy industry does a great deal of damage to our environment?

http://www.newstarget.com/021296.html

I guess it depends upon if you believe in global warming or not.

Even if you ignore the global warming claims, there's still the issues of water contamination, destruction of ocean life, deforestation that is directly caused by raising cattle for food.

Cows are not just fed hay/grain. They are also given corn silage, minerals and vitamins, antibiotics if they're sick, and in some not all cases, the food contains animal byproducts from the slaughterhouse. Check out the Clover Stornetta Farms website FAQs:

What do cows eat?

The cows in this area have access to a lot of pasture during the growing season, (but they also eat silage and green chop and alfalfa hay for forages). They are also fed small amounts of grains and things such as cottonseed meal for energy, and are supplemented with vitamins and minerals. No animal byproducts are fed to our cows.

Even if you ignore the global warming claims, there's still the issues of water contamination, destruction of ocean life, deforestation that is directly caused by raising cattle for food.


And don't forget the Deliciousness issue.

They are also given corn silage, minerals and vitamins, antibiotics if they're sick, and in some not all cases, the food contains animal byproducts from the slaughterhouse. Check out the Clover Stornetta Farms website FAQs:

I guess I do not see anything wrong with those things.

Corn silage is just corn plants.

Minerals are minerals

vitamins are vitamins

All animals need antibiotics from time to time. Its important to note that no milk is unloaded at the dairy if ANY amount of antibiotics are detected in it. The same is true for a high white blood cell count that would indicate an unhealthy cow.

Since the mad cow scare no ruminant products have been allowed to be fed to another ruminant in the United States.

And don't forget the Deliciousness issue.


True. Many people love the taste of meat and could never even consider being vegetarian/vegan. That's fine. Those people however could still make a difference by just eating less meat/dairy products. In other words, people could be meat-lite. You don't need to be a longhairedpinkohippytreehuggingbleedingheartliberal nutball. Simple solutions are out there for all stereotypes to help reduce our environmental impact.

Long hair left wing city boys who decry the "factory farming" spread the myth that your typical piece of beef was standing in its own poo since the day it was born in some type of environment resembling a factory.

Beef cattle spend on average 110-150 days standing in their poo. Dairy cows spend considerably longer.

I guess I do not see anything wrong with those things.

Corn silage is just corn plants.

Minerals are minerals

vitamins are vitamins

All animals need antibiotics from time to time. Its important to note that no milk is unloaded at the dairy if ANY amount of antibiotics are detected in it. The same is true for a high white blood cell count that would indicate an unhealthy cow.

Since the mad cow scare no ruminant products have been allowed to be fed to another ruminant in the United States.


My point is that cows need a lot of support to grow quickly and to produce milk in the quantities desired. It takes a lot of energy and resources to sustain a productive cattle herd. Those resources are more efficiently used just producing plant matter for human consumption (ethanol being an exception).

The meat/dairy industry isn't evil. Most people rely on these products. I just wish people would consider how much meat/dairy they really need to consume to be healthy and happy just like people decide how much they really need to drive. Some people can only go car-lite or meat-lite while others can do without both. As long as we consider that what we eat affects our environment, we're on a positive track.

I guess it depends upon if you believe in global warming or not.

You mean from the methane emitted by cow farts? :p

Well, I'm glad I haven't started a flame war here.

I agree with what's been said about unhealthy eating habits of vegans. I've met maybe two vegans that I thought were healthy, and I still think they would be a bit healthier with some meat in them.

I'm surprised all of this vege-bashing is coming from people on the car-free forum, which is full of threads on saving money, helping the environment and how oil companies control the world.

You shouldn't be. Most of the topics boil down to the primacy and perfection of individuals who have made the arbitrary personal choice to not own a car over all other innumerable, arbitrary life choices, regardless - in fact in spite of- their individual merits. It's mostly a circle jerk. Talking about saving money or oil companies is just a way to broach the real topic: Aren't we the best for being ourselves? Doesn't getting up each day and infusing the most mundane details- like paying a bill- with hero-like accomplishment, or our most inconsequential musings- like "personal responsibility"- with philosopher wisdom an awesome way to spend your self-deluded days? It's great being islands and rocks, isn't it fella's? Pardon me, I'm going to go vote Republican.

I guess it depends upon if you believe in global warming or not.

Like believing in gravity or not? Or evolution or not?

Me? I don't believe in 2+2=4. It's just a little too tidy, if you know what I mean.

You shouldn't be. Most of the topics boil down to the primacy and perfection of individuals who have made the arbitrary personal choice to not own a car over all other innumerable, arbitrary life choices, regardless - in fact in spite of- their individual merits. It's mostly a circle jerk. Talking about saving money or oil companies is just a way to broach the real topic: Aren't we the best for being ourselves? Doesn't getting up each day and infusing the most mundane details- like paying a bill- with hero-like accomplishment, or our most inconsequential musings- like "personal responsibility"- with philosopher wisdom an awesome way to spend your self-deluded days? It's great being islands and rocks, isn't it fella's? Pardon me, I'm going to go vote Republican.

A very revealing post - about the interior of TimJ. N'est pas?

You shouldn't be. Most of the topics boil down to the primacy and perfection of individuals who have made the arbitrary personal choice to not own a car over all other innumerable, arbitrary life choices, regardless - in fact in spite of- their individual merits. It's mostly a circle jerk. Talking about saving money or oil companies is just a way to broach the real topic: Aren't we the best for being ourselves? Doesn't getting up each day and infusing the most mundane details- like paying a bill- with hero-like accomplishment, or our most inconsequential musings- like "personal responsibility"- with philosopher wisdom an awesome way to spend your self-deluded days? It's great being islands and rocks, isn't it fella's? Pardon me, I'm going to go vote Republican.

Yes, I probably shouldn't be surprised. I made an assumption that the car-free people would also be interested in other means of reducing environmental destruction because the topic comes up frequently. I agree that the whole [I]my gang is better/smarter/more moral than your gang[I] mindset appears in all facets of society, including this forum.

I disagree with you however that choosing to be car-free is just some arbitrary notion for most people. Cars play a dominant part of our lives and their use requires a lot resources. Many people chose to get rid of their cars for logical reasons just as many people become vegetarian or vote for a certain candidate. Those choices don't necessarily contradict their individual merits and those choices aren't necessarily arbitrary. We decide what's important in our lives and act accordingly.

All these posts, makes me hungry for a burger or steak with a bowl of salad. Yum..

Just tell them that cows are vegetarians and look what you do to them!

Wait, I am a vegetarian, am I supposed to tell you that.

And no I'm not a tree-hugging "save the cows" vegetarian. I just never really liked meat. except chicken sandwiches. But I now eat the soy chicken crap.

I'd go vegetarian if there was a meat flavored vegetable.

there is, sorta, its callled Morning Star products. I never liked "hot dogs" and "hamburgers" untill I became a vegetarian!

And I can still get me fix on chicken sandwiches.

Beef cattle spend on average 110-150 days standing in their poo. Dairy cows spend considerably longer.

Is this a great forum, or what?

I work with a girl who is a vegetarian.

This is a true story.

One day she was going on and on about the ills of meat and how bad it is for people. As she was telling us this she was eating her normal lunch of french fries and a bottle of coke.

That just about killed me. I was trying so hard NOT to call her an idiot.

I had that experience once, except she was a smoker instead of a junk-food junkie.

there is, sorta, its callled Morning Star products. I never liked "hot dogs" and "hamburgers" untill I became a vegetarian!

And I can still get me fix on chicken sandwiches.



There is no such thing as a "vegetarian" hot dog, hamburger or chicken patty. Dogs, hams and chickens are all animals.

:p

I eat all wild game so I am actually reducing the number of wild ruminants running around ruining the environment with their little deer farts!!!!

God bless me.

Actually I hunt because I like it, the meat is almost 100% lean (much leaner then even chicken), and its good for the ecosystem and the health of the deer herd.

Plus I am a gun toting right wing nutjob.:eek:

here is a quick search of protien and brain cells

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/04/19/science-creb.html?ref=rss

yes I am aware of non-animal protien yet complete protien

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_protein

Yet the only bean I see is Soy (i know wikipedia)