okay...

I am just starting to get into cycling... I currently weight abou 250 pounds (give or take a big mac) and am 6'2. My ultimate goal is sub 200... i have been riding almost every day somewhere between 5 and 8 miles. my question is this. CUrrently I find myself running in 2-6 on my mountain bike but have fairly low cadence. I don't find it comfortable to run 2-5 at the higher cadence. I don't have a cyclocomputer, but I have to assume im running in the 50-60RPM range (going 1,1000 and noticing i have made one complete revolution) and any faster and I seem to get more tired then just switching to a higher gear. I can run flat out in 2-8 or even 3-8 at that (relativley low) cadence for probably about 1/2 mile before my legs ask for a break.

My purpose for biking is two fold, one I really am enjoying it, but two is to get in better shape and use it as part of a weight loss routine...

advice?

It sounds counterintuitive, but a 90 cadence requires less effort in the correct gear than a 70 cadence mashing.

I've found that 70 works for me. I can't run 90 yet, I just don't have the balance and my legs just can't spin that fast. Again I say "yet" because I hope to get there.

Cadence will build over time, but requires you to work at it. I constantly have to tell myself to spin, and so far it's working well. I've also forbidden myself from running the "big ring" on my roadie so that i work on my spin in the middle ring.

don't worry, it will happen. I think one way to get into spinning is by getting a singlespeed. One of my riding buddies can push a cadence of over 160 on his singlespeed.. that is SOMETHING to behold. And he's only been riding for a year.. so yeah.. you can do it :).

As soon as I get a roadie i'm putting a cycloputer with cadence on it so I can watch myself and train myself to keep my cadence up.

Another way to build cadence is 1st gear sprints.

Make sure you are clipped and strapped or riding clipless before attempting this.

To do this, you run up your cadence until your butt starts bouncing and then back off a tad and hold the fast cadence until you hit the top of your heart rate zone (If you are using a HR monitor). Before you do this though, be aware of your cardiac health. When you hit HR max, do a slower cadence cooldown until your Heart rate normalizes and then the process repeats.

As soon as I get a roadie i'm putting a cycloputer with cadence on it so I can watch myself and train myself to keep my cadence up.
If you don't have a cadence sensor, "Crazy Train" by Ozzie Osborne runs 90 BPM, pedal in time with it and you have a 90 cadence.

If you don't have a cadence sensor, "Crazy Train" by Ozzie Osborne runs 90 BPM, pedal in time with it and you have a 90 cadence.

To funny! I may be weird but I don't listen to music when I ride or work out. I like to listen to my environment. So I'll just listen to it before I ride and I'll play it back in my head.

alot of dance techno runs in the 80 to 100bpm range as well I like crystal method and massive attack myself.

what is a good target cadence to shoot for?

I am assuming somewhere in the 70-90, but im curious?

To funny! I may be weird but I don't listen to music when I ride or work out. I like to listen to my environment. So I'll just listen to it before I ride and I'll play it back in my head.
Never hear of powered speakers?;)
http://www.brookstone.com/store/product.asp?wid=11&cid=1107&sid=110705&product_code=509703

Never hear of powered speakers?;)
http://www.brookstone.com/store/product.asp?wid=11&cid=1107&sid=110705&product_code=509703

I'd have to but and MP3 player first. I'm kind of old school, I enjoy listening to things around me... when I can hear over my huffing and puffing.


I'm hoping to get my cadence up to 80-90 before to long.

Spinning higher will help your knees too. If you are mashing too much in too low of a gear, you won't last very long. Higher cadence takes alot of pressure off of the knees.

what is a good target cadence to shoot for?

I am assuming somewhere in the 70-90, but im curious?
90-100, eventually....

You do have to build the aerobic capacity though and it's just a process and time in the saddle to do that.;)

When you say that you are more comfortable at lower rpms, it probably means your legs are in better shape than your heart and lungs. This isn't surprising, considering we are Clydes. It is probably better to get your heart and lungs up to speed first. To monitor your cadence, count how many times your left knee comes up in 6 seconds, using your speedometer to count the time. Multiply by 10. Try and keep this number close to 9 and you will be in the ballpark. You will be amazed at how quickly you can adapt to this cadence. It probably won't take much more than a week.

I am going to buy a cyclometer with the cadence feature, but I have yet to pay enought attention to my cadence. I will try and pay attention to my cadence the next time out. I would guess I am in the lower RPM range also.

When you say that you are more comfortable at lower rpms, it probably means your legs are in better shape than your heart and lungs. This isn't surprising, considering we are Clydes. It is probably better to get your heart and lungs up to speed first. To monitor your cadence, count how many times your left knee comes up in 6 seconds, using your speedometer to count the time. Multiply by 10. Try and keep this number close to 9 and you will be in the ballpark. You will be amazed at how quickly you can adapt to this cadence. It probably won't take much more than a week.

I just had a 'duh' moment. Thanks for this tip, simple, easy, why could I not think this up myself?

I am working on spinning. Focusing on smooth twirl and lifting my feet. I still need to get clips or clipless. When you guys spin, what type of pressure do you feel when pressing down on the pedal. I know what mashing feels like :D, but I always feel like I am not at enough resistance or too much. I will be spinning just fine on a flat trail when suddenly I am spinning to fast and need to shift up....and then back down. Does that make sense?

I am working on spinning. Focusing on smooth twirl and lifting my feet. I still need to get clips or clipless. When you guys spin, what type of pressure do you feel when pressing down on the pedal. I know what mashing feels like :D, but I always feel like I am not at enough resistance or too much. I will be spinning just fine on a flat trail when suddenly I am spinning to fast and need to shift up....and then back down. Does that make sense?
Best way to tell if you are spinning too fast is if your butt starts bouncing on the saddle. Then it's time to upshift. Ideally, you should spin relatively fast with little resistance. If you can hold 90 and run it up fast to say 160 and grab a shift, you'll be flat amazed as to how explosive your sprint will get.

When you say that you are more comfortable at lower rpms, it probably means your legs are in better shape than your heart and lungs. This isn't surprising, considering we are Clydes. It is probably better to get your heart and lungs up to speed first. To monitor your cadence, count how many times your left knee comes up in 6 seconds, using your speedometer to count the time. Multiply by 10. Try and keep this number close to 9 and you will be in the ballpark. You will be amazed at how quickly you can adapt to this cadence. It probably won't take much more than a week.


your assuming i have a speedometer

"Panama" by Van Halen is another good song to get stuck in your head. I fought faster cadence for a long time. I had to make myself stay in the middle chainring for a couple of weeks. It will surprize you how much faster you will get and how hills are not so bad. It feels weird at first but gets easier with time.

A cyclocomputer with cadence makes it really easy, because you only need to glance down - no thought required! I found it very useful in learning how to spin.

I have found that 90-100 rpm works best for me, but it did take a while to get there. The resistance just feels too light at first, and your natural inclination is to shift to a higher gear and push harder. It also helps if you think about not just pushing down on one foot while lifting the other, but also pushing your foot forward as it comes over the top, and pulling it back as it goes through the bottom of the stroke - as somebody once said, "like scraping mud off your shoe".

Concentrate on doing that, and you'll find you can spin at a cadence that used to bounce you out of the saddle.

Riding with a slow cadence typically means you are "mashing" the pedals (and not really getting much aerobic ). You want a higher cadence (less resistance). When you mash the pedals you will get knee problems. The magic number, supposedly, is 90 RPM, but get it to where you think you can....I know I'm not riding at 90 RPM.

BTW.....I notice the "clearwater" part in your name. You aren't, by chance, from Clearwater FL are you? I know there are many places called Clearwater, but just thought I'd ask. I just moved from Clearwater, FL to Bellevue, WA.

BTW.....I notice the "clearwater" part in your name. You aren't, by chance, from Clearwater FL are you? I know there are many places called Clearwater, but just thought I'd ask. I just moved from Clearwater, FL to Bellevue, WA.


actually, clearwater has nothing to do with any place...

your assuming i have a speedometer

There are speedometers that are dirt cheap, I think I paid CA$11.50 for mine, at MEC, yup, Filzer DB2L (http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442507987&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302693003&bmUID=1183508453092)

Nashbar has 'em starting at $15, for best reliability and lowest cost, go with a simple and wired model, you just need distance and saddle time, which just counts when the wheels are turning. Best is one that can be operated while wearing cycling gloves. You do need to calibrate them though, best way is a tape measure, that includes metric, draw a line on the road with sidewalk chalk, line up your tire valve with the line, pump the pressure to your normal max pressure, and ride about 5 full turns of the wheel, again to valve at the bottom, draw another line, measure this distance, between the two lines you will probably get something like 9m, 75cm multiply meters by 1000 and cm by 10 and add the two together, so we get 9750 this is millimetres, divide by 5, gives you 1950mm this is the number you would put into your computer.

If you don't have a metric or dual measuring tape, measure in inches, and use a conversion table, a good online one is online conversion.com (http://www.onlineconversion.com)

Note, you need to do the calculation, EVERY rider, bicycle and tire combination is different, in fact if your weight changes a bunch, or you change tire width you need to recalculate to stay accurate. Most computers can work in either metric or American measure, but the wheel sensor distance, is in millimeters.

Bike or cyclocomputers can really help your riding, for one thing, you can see how your progressing. You can participate in Spinner Saturday, although it can be depressing when you compare to Tom "Million Miler" Stormcrowe.....

If you don't have a cadence sensor, "Crazy Train" by Ozzie Osborne runs 90 BPM, pedal in time with it and you have a 90 cadence. I don't have a copy to be sure, but I could swear that Crazy Train falls closer to 120-130 bpm. Regardless, I find I like to load songs into my head to help hold a constant cadence. I find myself more comfortable at around 80 recently.

A good, energetic song that helps push me right around 90 is "Smokin" by Boston. It's at just about 180 bpm, so matching the beat to each leg stroke yields 90. Another way to more accurately measure cadence if you have a speedometer without a cadence function is to create a speed/gear combination chart so you know for instance, 15 mph at 2/6 is 80, 15 at 2/5 is 95, etc.

Don't obsess over your cadence. Find the gear that you can spin the fastest AND smoothest, without bouncing around in the saddle and work on maintaining that rate, shifting as necessary to maintain it as the terrain changes. Over time, as your fitness increases, you'll find that your 'comfort' cadence increases and you'll also be able to achieve it in a higher gear and over longer distances. There is no 'one cadence fits all', but you are correct, the 70-90 range is about typical for most cyclists. Unless you plan on racing, there is no reason to be overly concerned about such things...just have fun and let it come.

alot of dance techno runs in the 80 to 100bpm range as well I like crystal method and massive attack myself.


Lance truly pedals to the beat at times thru this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27SFeKk2LpY

DJ Tiesto - Ancient History

I pedal to the beat of this song and some other Oakenfold while riding. It does keep me spinning faster.

what is a good target cadence to shoot for?

I am assuming somewhere in the 70-90, but im curious?

I think that varies a lot if you have bad knees or whatever.
About a month ago, I got a cheap computer to measure speed/distance.
Back calculating on a spreadsheet, it worked out that I was turning at 60. With my gears, down shifting 1 cog (13T to 14T) put me at 65 for a virtually identical speed. MUCH better for the stamina!!!
I can't handle 70 because of arthritic knees and "chubby" legs. I'm thinking that maybe if I could go to 165mm cranks from my 170mm, maybe the smaller range of motion would allow me to turn it up a few more RPM. It's not in the budget to try however.

I think that varies a lot if you have bad knees or whatever.
About a month ago, I got a cheap computer to measure speed/distance.
Back calculating on a spreadsheet, it worked out that I was turning at 60. With my gears, down shifting 1 cog (13T to 14T) put me at 65 for a virtually identical speed. MUCH better for the stamina!!!
I can't handle 70 because of arthritic knees and "chubby" legs. I'm thinking that maybe if I could go to 165mm cranks from my 170mm, maybe the smaller range of motion would allow me to turn it up a few more RPM. It's not in the budget to try however.
If I come across a 165 mm crank on a salvage bike in good shape, I'll send it yo you for postage. Sound good?

Let me know what you have on the bike, square taper or splined or cottered.

I think my suspension seat post might be holding me back from turning a higher cadence. I notice that anything over 70 and I start to bounce on the post. My moms been hinting that she'd like a post like mine. Sounds like it's time to swap them out.

Found a workout music bpm database, though it's a bit involved to filter: http://www.technosweat.com/

Ah, fergit it. :) Gonna just go ride.

This may be advice as you build your skills. I spent my first 1200mi this year spinning and am comfortable with a cadence between 95-105 and have fairly good technique, but I've found that my speed averages were lower than desired. Now pushing bigger gears with cadence in the low eighties. Also, climbing in bigger gears has been very helpful.

Get your spin down and your fitness level up as pushing big gears will wear you out prematurely and/or you risk injury as well.

Cadence will build over time, but requires you to work at it. I constantly have to tell myself to spin, and so far it's working well. I've also forbidden myself from running the "big ring" on my roadie so that i work on my spin in the middle ring.

don't worry, it will happen. I think one way to get into spinning is by getting a singlespeed. One of my riding buddies can push a cadence of over 160 on his singlespeed.. that is SOMETHING to behold. And he's only been riding for a year.. so yeah.. you can do it :).

+100 on the SS. Everybody should have a SS or FG in their stable.

*update*

well I was at dick's sporting goods today and bought a sigma speedometer /w cadence ($25 on clearence) So now I have cadence.

I put the mm's in based on the directions from the book, however I am not sure if it's entirely accurate. I am going to measure it sometime tomorrow.

for my 26x2.0 was like 1313, so I put that in right now. I am going measure it out and see how accurate it was.

If I come across a 165 mm crank on a salvage bike in good shape, I'll send it yo you for postage. Sound good?

Let me know what you have on the bike, square taper or splined or cottered.

Sounds GREAT!
Square taper
While I was out checking, I noticed mine were 175's.
So much for my memory thinking they were 170's.
Thinking about 165's, I think my knees smiled!:)
I've got more than enough low gears, so I don't need to "torque" my way up my flatland riding.
Just pm or email me at the appropriate time.
Thanks!

*update*

well I was at dick's sporting goods today and bought a sigma speedometer /w cadence ($25 on clearence) So now I have cadence.

I put the mm's in based on the directions from the book, however I am not sure if it's entirely accurate. I am going to measure it sometime tomorrow.

for my 26x2.0 was like 1313, so I put that in right now. I am going measure it out and see how accurate it was.

You can go to this link and see if your numbers make sense.
http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

*another update*

well I went out and installed the computer last night, and went out for (what I hope is becomming my morning routine) an 8 mile ride this morning. The MPH average I was showing was ~10.5 or 11 (computer only shows in half mph) and the cadence that I was trying to maintain was ~75. It seems like a good number for me. I was able to spin up into the 11x range, but it felt very ackward (like I wasnt really sitting on the seat, but bouncing around, and not very stable)

the tire size I have my bike set to is 1313ws (which is what sigma puts in it's book) with a piece of string I determined that the correct number is 1328ws.

basically it's mm / 1.61 to convert from kph to mph

I used a piece of string to calibrate mine too.
I don't think the weight of the rider has any noticeable effect. The tire has the same circumference whether it's squashed a bit or not. Sitting on the bike isn't going to reduce the circumference.
If you have any accurately measured mile posts, you can always check your settings against them and tweak it accordingly. Even if you're 1/2% off, it's no big deal. You establish a base line and go from there. 10% improvment (or whatever number) is still 10% improvement.

If anybody is interested, I have compiled a set list of songs that range from 90 to 99 BPM. Almost all of them are rock songs as that is what I tend to listen to on rides. I have been a mobile and club DJ for 17 years and finding and using BPM info is second nature to me. Let me know and I will post it up. It is quite a long list though...

actually, clearwater has nothing to do with any place...
OK...just checking

If anybody is interested, I have compiled a set list of songs that range from 90 to 99 BPM.
I'd be interested. When just playing a song in your head, it's all too easy to find myself automatically slowing or speeding up the tempo to match my cadence. :)