Living Car Free - random car free thoughts.

Ok..maybe I'm odd. I don't like driving. I'm 28 years old, I own a car, but I've never had a liscence, or more than a permit, or driven more than a few miles, I hate it, can't stand it. I hitch rides sometimes, bike, walk, my gf drives..I just really have no intrest in driving around. Now..I looked online..found a tadpole terra bike, full cover, electric assist motor, looks like all kinds of fun. Now here the winters get cold so a covered warm bike would be nice (I am sure I can find a way to heat this thing up in winter) so am I crazy? Do I just need to get my liscense and stop being behind everyone else? Am I going to be freezing, slipping and sliding all over in the cold montana winter? Should I just drive the suburban all winter and bike in the summer when it's nice? I'm hoping for some input here if possable. I feel like I'm swimming upriver and being the odd man out. That maybe if I was 50 this kind of thing would be ok..but at 28 I need to just buck up, do the car thing and press on. Comments appriciated.

Hey man don't cave to the car God. I started paying my tithe 53 years ago and I am still paying. It's a habit that's harder to quit then tobacco. I was completly hooked by the time I was 28 but if I had not been my retirement and health would be a lot better. Buy the bike. When it's too cold or you have company hire a cab or even a limo. In the long run it is much cheaper. I have been trying to kick the habit for years and believe me it is a habit.

Well, the only nutty part of your plan is that your in Montana. I thought my pipe dream of electic-tram and bike-only cities was crazy. Winter biking in the NW is bad enough, come spring they'll be pulling your grinning, permafrosted remains out of a melting snow-drift.

I'm not saying to 'nut up' and get a license. What I'm saying is move to a more temperate clime, THEN get that tadpole terra with electric assist motor.

As for biking in the winter, you'll have to make adjustments, but it shouldn't be hard. Google "Icebiking". Plenty of people do it. You can get special tires to bike on ice, so don't worry about sliding (Some people even hold races on ice).

You may need multiple bikes for your needs. Many of the car-free people here use XtraCycles to carry groceries. A three wheel recumbent, however stable, wouldn't last you on the ice, so you might also want a mountain bike for wintertime. Sure it might be expensive, but you will end up saving money by not having to buy a car, insurance, gas, car repairs, gym membership, diet books, or driver's liscence fees.

Yes, you are going against the grain. You may have to put up with a lot of s*** from angry motorists who have to pass you on the street. But it will be worth it, especially for someone your age. World oil production is expected to peak around 2035. You'll be happy you were never dependant on it.

Do I just need to get my liscense and stop being behind everyone else? Am I going to be freezing, slipping and sliding all over in the cold montana winter? That maybe if I was 50 this kind of thing would be ok..but at 28 I need to just buck up, do the car thing and press on. Comments appriciated.

You could move. Got to a climate that is more compatible with year round cycling. What makes you think it's different at 50? I moved to Arkansas at 51. Its colder than California, but its still cycleable year round.

But then again. With Global Warming, in 22 years Montana might feel like Florida. :p

I'm not entirely clear on this- are you saying you drive without a license?

With regard to riding a bike in the North in the winter, I can tell you my own experience.

I lived in Anchorage, Alaska from age 10 to age 18. For a couple years of that time, I took up the habit of riding my bike to school because it was more convenient than the bus. During the winter, I rode a no-suspension mountain bike on snowy/icy, non-salted roads and I found that it worked quite well.

You'll have to make your own determination of whether a particular road is safe for you to ride when it's snowy or icy, though.

For me, the best bike for the job was an upright two-wheeler. Having only two wheels meant that much less resistance in snow and made it easier to pick a path that avoided getting a wheel caught in deeper snow. It may be easier to dress for the weather if you ride something with a protecting body (velomobile) but velomobiles are expensive and heavier than two-wheelers, which could be a real liability in some winter conditions.

If you know how to dress for walking or skiing outdoors in midwinter, you should be able to use the same clothing strategies for riding. If you ride hard, though, you will have to wear less-insulated clothes to avoid overheating.

When I was riding on heavily salted and well-trafficed roads in Montreal, I preferred a bike with narrow 27" road tires, because they didn't have to push large amounts of snow aside, instead cutting through like a knife and mostly running on the underlying pavement (meaning traction was pretty good).

The comment that anybody who tries to ride a bike through a Montana winter is going to get frozen solid in a snowbank is just ridiculous.

Cosmoline lives in Alaska and rides year round...I actually enjoyed winter riding the few times I get to do in NC:p

Aaron:)

No I didn't say I drive illegaly. I've never had more than a permit, with a permit you can drive legaly with a liscenced driver in the car..oh choices..idk...more thinking is needed on this matter I think. The trike I mentioned has an offshoot site which makes a velo kit for it...that was something I looked at.

I'm 29. I've had my learner's permit for 8 years and never actually been for a drive. My 25yo wife drives, but I'm in the process of talking her into giving her car away and making us completely car-free.

We've just bought a house that we're yet to settle on and move into, but we bought it specifically with car-free lifestyle in mind. It's four minutes' walk from the train station. The local shopping strip is on the way, so closer than that again.

We're four blocks away from her parents and my parents are a ten-minute ride from another train station. Most of our friends are local, or close to trains as well. Every time friends move, we help them shop for a place to rent or buy that's cheap and close to public transportation.

Don't buy into the "You need a car" mindset. You don't. Being car-free isn't only for retired people. We're young, we have enough friends that we have to turn down at least one invitation to dinner each week, we work professional jobs in the city, we eat out, we shop and see films and hang out in bars. We do almost all of this without a car, and soon, I hope we'll be doing all of it without a car. It can be done and it is a good thing to do.

There is a forum here devoted to winter cycling. I've been reading up on that, and am looking foreward to my first carfree winter. It seems all you need is warm clothes and snow tires.

If people go carfree in fridged northern european winters, it can be done anywhere.

We're young, we have enough friends that we have to turn down at least one invitation to dinner each week, we work professional jobs in the city, we eat out, we shop and see films and hang out in bars

Note that hanging out in bars is one of the things for which cars are not so great-- traveling without a car, everybody can drink, but with a car, there needs to be a driver who's not drinking.

I vote to continue to try to make your life work without the car. They are only going to get more expensive to own and operate as time goes on. I am in the slow process of going back to car light/free. If everything goes according to plan I should be car light with in the year and car free in less than 3.:D And it is going to be a pretty drastic change going from 50,000 miles a year in a crew cab dually that gets 15mpg to carfree...

Aaron:)

Looks like alot more research but worth it in the end. I curently own a gmc denali. I thought a tadpole style trike with velo kit would make a nice winter "bike" the one with the bionx p250 seems like a good deal. Or should I just get one of those motorized tires for the denali since it does have a big heavy steel front fork that may work well. What are the motorized tires called again?

Well, the only nutty part of your plan is that your in Montana. I thought my pipe dream of electic-tram and bike-only cities was crazy. Winter biking in the NW is bad enough, come spring they'll be pulling your grinning, permafrosted remains out of a melting snow-drift.

I'm not saying to 'nut up' and get a license. What I'm saying is move to a more temperate clime, THEN get that tadpole terra with electric assist motor.
Winter biking is easy. Cagers miss more work days due to break-downs and collisions. Makes me wish my bike wasn't so damn reliable so I could get those days off too.

You remind me of me. I resisted getting a license or car for many years. I got around just fine on my bike, led a simple life and didn't see a need for anything else. I finally got my license and a car in the mid 90's when I was about 24. It was the beginning of a gradual slide into conformity which ultimately brought me to financial excess, bad relationships, obesity and ruination. A little over a year ago I killed my car and opted not to get another. Instead I got a bicycle. Now I'm on my way to getting back in shape, I've got my career back on track and I don't have any mouching SO's.

As far as winter biking, it's no big deal. I biked through an Alaskan winter on a beach cruiser. Don't mess with anything fancy, but do spend the money on GOOD STUDS, esp. if you'll be facing ice. The Nokians are the best. A basic, two wheeled bike set for upright posture will be best for winter in most cases. Remember there's a difference between the snow bikes they use for the winter cross country races and an ice bike. For ice you need studs more than the low pressure puffy tires. Old school is the best. That means big BMX pedals with no fancy clips or nonsense. You'll likely want studs on your shoes, too. Being able to get boot to ground fast saved me from some bad spills last winter. The biggest problem is ridges and bumps hidden under fresh snow. That can drop you if you're not prepared. But with the big cruiser I never actually went down. I was always able to catch myself. If I'd been on a fancier bike or been clipped into the pedals I would have been toast. Three wheels or a velomobile seems cool at first, but for winter the drag of snow and inevitable rough terrain will bog them down. They're much better for flat smooth surfaces. Exposure to cold is not that big of a deal. Just dress as you would for skiing. I only had to wear my union suit a few times, and even at twenty below zero f. it tended to make me too hot. Your core will burn like a furnace as you ride, and as long as you have good wicking poly fleece you'll be fine. It's your hands, feet and face that can get cold and may need more wool.

Going car free may take some adjustments, but living in this world you've already been adjusting yourself to cars as long as you've been alive. Break out of the mold and find your own way.

One problem, though. Since I started car free my pockets have been sagging from too much cash.

There is a forum here devoted to winter cycling. I've been reading up on that, and am looking foreward to my first carfree winter. It seems all you need is warm clothes and snow tires.

That's pretty much it. Last winter was my first and I was very surprised at how little clothing I actually needed. Every time I bundled-up, I was too warm--dripping sweat too warm. Finally I just ignored all advice and wore only a fleece and a windbreaker. Those, over a regular shirt and jeans, was all I needed to 10° or 12°F.

One problem, though. Since I started car free my pockets have been sagging from too much cash.

Don't worry. You've already found the cure for that. New bikes! (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=308060)

In my younger days I rode my old Schwinn Continental 10 speed everywhere.

Then, it was just a matter of course. I look back on those days, now, with fond memories of cruising to school and back, to friends' houses, around campus, to the park to throw a Frisbee around, to parties, and silently gliding through the warm summer darkness. A few years after, the friend I lent it to wrecked it.

That was before I got my first car. That was before I started driving everywhere, trying to keep an old car running, keep tires on it; before license, registration, insurance, emissions tests, repairs, oil changes, and gas began constantly to drain my "extra" cash.

A few months ago I started keeping an eye out for a used bike in decent shape that I could afford. The local bike shop carries used bikes for $75 to $80. That's not a bad price considering they replace the rubber, adjust and tune them and provide a 30 day warranty. I kept them in mind but kept looking, and I'm glad I did.

I found an older 18 speed mountain bike at a local thrift shop, in near-new condition, for $30. The brand and model emblazoned on the oval shaped top tube is F.S. Elite Grand Teton. I think the F.S. refers to the Free Spirit brand that Sears used to carry. It has a heavy frame and two inch knobby tires.

I started riding it short distances, doing the grocery shopping and errands on it to begin building up my legs and getting used to the saddle. Within a couple of weeks I started commuting the seven and a half miles to work and back. The commute is along a bus route, so I was able to work up to the full commute by riding a mile and half to a bus stop, busing three miles and riding the remaining three miles.

Once the weather started warming up and more bicycle commuters got out their bikes for the season, a spot on the two-bike racks on the bus became scarce, so I started riding the entire distance. Work is about 400 feet higher elevation than home, and the worst hills are on the work end of the trip. If I got too winded to pump up a hill, I had no problem with getting off and walking a bit. But I find myself dismounting less and less as my strength and endurance improve.

Most of the ride home is downgrade, so it is more enjoyable but less of a workout. I know a heavy frame MTB with big knobbies is not an ideal commuting bike, but I look at it as "training weights." Once I get higher pressure slicks on it or find a good deal on a road bike, my legs will be tree trunks.

I sit in front of a computer at work all day and it is often slow enough that I have plenty of time to surf the web. I have found great inspiration, philosophy, ethics, and information on sites like Bicycle Fixation, Bicycling Life, Ken Kifer, Sheldon Brown, and others. My ideological roots are in the anti-establishment counter-culture of the early to mid '70s, and my ideology has matured along similar lines. Bicycling for mental and physical health as well as for ecological and sustainability considerations fits very well with that ideology. I am just surprised at myself that it has taken so long to start bringing my lifestyle into line with my ideology.

Now I am car-free.
I have since replaced the MTB with a "hybrid" I picked up at the local flea market for $20. It's a vintage Puch Mistral lugged steel roadie frame with 26 x 1.5 slicks and straight bars. My 8 mile commute has gone from 60-65 min. (in the uphill direction) on the mountain bike to 45-50 min. on the Puch.

Stick with the bike. You'll never regret it.

I don't know anything about electric trikes, but it sounds like fun. I would check on the batteries, because most batteries don't work as well in cold temperatures.

I do know that riding through the winter is difficult for those who have never tried it, but simple for those who have tried. So try it!