Road Bike Racing - Petacchi charged with doping, to miss Tour start.

Read it and weep. Another one bites the dust:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12559.0.html

I'm not bummed about another alleged doper getting nabbed. To the contrary, if it's true, I think it's a good thing. I'm just disappointed that Petacchi seems to be one of them as well; I always liked him.

Edit: It also seems like race results should be posted on a dry erase board for a year or more, until all the doping scandals play out.

Well, from what I've read on this, he was penalized for what others have gotten away with before. I believe it was galdeano(?) who was cleared with a higher level of salbutomal from an inhalor than Petacchi, so Alejet was no doubt surprised by this action. But this sends a message that there will be less tolerance of levels outside the established parameters. Still, Petacchi loses a year for something others have gotten off on? I think he may be more than a little pissed.

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=reu-dopingpetacchi_urgent&prov=reuters&type=lgns

What a joke this whole system is.

Ok, I'm pretty rabidly anti-doping, but this is ridiculous. The guy has a TUE and almost certainly just hit his inhaler a few too many times during a race.

Kinda true. If McQuaid/CONI wanted to tighten down on the abuse of medical permits, he/they should have stated in clear language what the new standards of tolerance would be instead of using someones career and livelyhood as an example. Mind you, I don't think there should be any medical permits for prohibited substances. If you have asthma, well, that's to bad, but too bad. But if they are going to allow medical permits, they should have clear, consistent standards of tolerance that are strictly enforced.

ghey.

The way I read it if Pettachi can prove he didn't take it orally or inject it and he used an inhaler in accordance to normal asthma practices he won't be suspended. I don't think he'll be able to prove that by Saturday but he may still get to race this year.

Ok, I'm pretty rabidly anti-doping, but this is ridiculous. The guy has a TUE and almost certainly just hit his inhaler a few too many times during a race.

Perhaps... but if you have a medical certificate that allows the use of a banned product for therapeutic reasons, and your athletic performance will be enhanced by taking too much either intentionally or unintentionally, then you have the burden of using it responsibly and properly. Perhaps the possibility of it being an "accidental overdose" is why he's facing a 1 year ban rather than two years?

Still, I wonder if the Pro Tour charter would prevent him from joining another Pro Tour team for two years after the end of his proposed suspension?

Ok, I'm pretty rabidly anti-doping, but this is ridiculous. The guy has a TUE and almost certainly just hit his inhaler a few too many times during a race.

No, this is used as a masking agent for other drugs. Don't assume CONI are stupid, many of those guys are ex-riders and they know exactly what these guys are trying to get away with.

Next up: Di Luca has to explain some bizarre test results next month.

Kinda true. If McQuaid/CONI wanted to tighten down on the abuse of medical permits, he/they should have stated in clear language what the new standards of tolerance would be instead of using someones career and livelyhood as an example. Mind you, I don't think there should be any medical permits for prohibited substances. If you have asthma, well, that's to bad, but too bad. But if they are going to allow medical permits, they should have clear, consistent standards of tolerance that are strictly enforced.

I agree that permits for prohibited substances do open the door for potential abuse and gray areas. However, there also need to be some common sense. A few years ago, Jonathan Vaughters had to drop out of the Tour de France after he was stung by a bee. His face swelled up like he'd gone toe to toe with Mike Tyson, and he couldn't see out of his eye that had swollen shut. His problem could have been fixed by a steroid shot, but he also would have risked being suspended if he had been tested. So, instead of receiving treatment that would have simply allowed him to return to normal, rather than being used to dope, he had to abandon the Tour.

I agree that permits for prohibited substances do open the door for potential abuse and gray areas. However, there also need to be some common sense. A few years ago, Jonathan Vaughters had to drop out of the Tour de France after he was stung by a bee. His face swelled up like he'd gone toe to toe with Mike Tyson, and he couldn't see out of his eye that had swollen shut. His problem could have been fixed by a steroid shot, but he also would have risked being suspended if he had been tested. So, instead of receiving treatment that would have simply allowed him to return to normal, rather than being used to dope, he had to abandon the Tour.While I understand and empathize with those who are victimized by circumstances like Vaughters, I still don't think exceptions should be made for anyone. Elite cycling, and life for that matter, is a gauntlet. Sometimes you just get hit by chance, and there is nothing you can do about it. Accepting that is part of living, competing, etc.... Making exceptions just gets everyone started on, "What about my special circumstance?". If you want special exceptions, go race in the special races. Elite cycling is to decide who the elite cyclists are, and that is a process that includes the natural physiology of the rider. If a rider is prone to illness or injury that prevents him/her from achievng success, well, nice try, but maybe in the next life you'll be born without susceptibility to allergies. 'Till then.

Don't think this bodes well for Di Luca given the mood CONI seem to be in at the moment.

While I understand and empathize with those who are victimized by circumstances like Vaughters, I still don't think exceptions should be made for anyone. Elite cycling, and life for that matter, is a gauntlet. Sometimes you just get hit by chance, and there is nothing you can do about it. Accepting that is part of living, competing, etc.... Making exceptions just gets everyone started on, "What about my special circumstance?". If you want special exceptions, go race in the special races. Elite cycling is to decide who the elite cyclists are, and that is a process that includes the natural physiology of the rider. If a rider is prone to illness or injury that prevents him/her from achievng success, well, nice try, but maybe in the next life you'll be born without susceptibility to allergies. 'Till then.

I can understand that side of it as well, and I'm sure it's tough to know where to draw the line.

Just to play Devil's Advocate :) (no, not an implied meaning), would you say that Armstrong should have been banned for two years because of taking EPO during his cancer treatment?

Don't think this bodes well for Di Luca given the mood CONI seem to be in at the moment.

What I don't understand is why the Oil for Drugs investigation is hitting the fan just now, or being dragged up again, when it happened back in 2004?

I can understand that side of it as well, and I'm sure it's tough to know where to draw the line.

Just to play Devil's Advocate :) (no, not an implied meaning), would you say that Armstrong should have been banned for two years because of taking EPO during his cancer treatment?Did he use it to enhance his performance? Did he test positive in competition? Did he test positive in random testing? Did he even apply for a medical exception for his use of EPO during his illness?;) I understand that PED's can be used in a program to gain an advantage while still not testing positive in actual competition, but that is for the enforcement agencies to resolve. Because of the nature of the problem, I must limit my concern to the testing in the immediate event or the investigative random testing by the enforcement agencies.

What I don't understand is why the Oil for Drugs investigation is hitting the fan just now, or being dragged up again, when it happened back in 2004?

Well things often don't happen quickly in Italy. My understanding is that the investigation was never closed. Perhaps the whole Puerto/Basso thing lit a fire underneath them and forced them to bring it to a conclusion.

How the hell did all these asthmatics end up in the high-end cardiovascular world of pro cycling anyway?

:rolleyes:

at this rate the lanterne rouge is going to be the winner of the TdF.

How the hell did all these asthmatics end up in the high-end cardiovascular world of pro cycling anyway?

Well there is such a thing as exercise-induced asthma.

at this rate the lanterne rouge is going to be the winner of the TdF.

Or he may even be French.

Crap. I was looking forward to the sprints with Petacchi, Boonen, McEwean et al. duking it out. Milram will now ride for Zabel but he's not what he was once was.

Or he may even be French.

Bite your tongue! Those cheese-eating surrender monkeys only know how to suck Gauloises and get in the way on the climbs.

Bite your tongue! Those cheese-eating surrender monkeys only know how to suck Gauloises and get in the way on the climbs.

What the F would a guy from Tallahassee know about climbs?

Or he may even be French.

:lol:

If any more people drop out, I think I'll sign up for Le Tour.

How the hell did all these asthmatics end up in the high-end cardiovascular world of pro cycling anyway?

:rolleyes:

I didnt have allergies/restricted breathing till 2 years back.. Its a good thing I dont possess the high-end cardio system ;)..


This sucks ass though.. I was looking forward to some epic sprints..

I will be really interested to see what happens when a French rider tests positive for anything. Perhaps a a contender like Moreau who is riding well this year.

I will be really interested to see what happens when a French rider tests positive for anything. Perhaps a a contender like Moreau who is riding well this year.My opinion of Moreau is he is clean, and he has an outside chance of winning the TDF this year.

Hey, it could happen.:D

I will be really interested to see what happens when a French rider tests positive for anything. Perhaps a a contender like Moreau who is riding well this year.

Think the French go easy on their own?

Cofidis rider Tristan Valentin was slapped with a six month ban earlier on this year for using the wrong cream on his nut sack (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/16052007/58/pro-tour-2007-cofidis-rider-slapped-ban.html).

Think the French go easy on their own?

Cofidis rider Tristan Valentin was slapped with a six month ban earlier on this year for using the wrong cream on his nut sack (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/16052007/58/pro-tour-2007-cofidis-rider-slapped-ban.html).

If I was him, I'd be thanking my lucky stars that I didn't accidentally use Ben Gay or Tiger Balm. With that in mind, a six-month ban doesn't seem too bad.

Think the French go easy on their own?

Cofidis rider Tristan Valentin was slapped with a six month ban earlier on this year for using the wrong cream on his nut sack (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/16052007/58/pro-tour-2007-cofidis-rider-slapped-ban.html).
I think it's clear they forgive their own a hell of a lot quicker than they forgive others.

I have athletic induced weakness of the legs can I take someting too? Since the asthma guys get to why not me?

Read it and weep. Another one bites the dust:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12559.0.html

I'm not bummed about another alleged doper getting nabbed. To the contrary, if it's true, I think it's a good thing. I'm just disappointed that Petacchi seems to be one of them as well; I always liked him.

Edit: It also seems like race results should be posted on a dry erase board for a year or more, until all the doping scandals play out.

I am. It's ruining cycling. Until they can guarantee honest, largely mistake-free testing with FAIR, unbiased appeals processes, it's not fair to keep destroying careers. Granted, I'm not saying the cyclists are all dope free but it's not a fair process yet.

this is ridiculous...why have guidelines?

I have athletic induced weakness of the legs can I take someting too? Since the asthma guys get to why not me?

Because asthma is a medical condition. As someone who has asthma (not EIA in my case) and treats it with a daily inhaler (Advair - active ingredient Salmetrol) I can assure you that it creates no unfair advantage, other than I dont suffer asthma attacks.

This thing with Peta is asinine ... unless as DocRay pointed out, the substances identified are used as masking agents for dope that is actually a P.E.D.

Because asthma is a medical condition. As someone who has asthma (not EIA in my case) and treats it with a daily inhaler (Advair - active ingredient Salmetrol) I can assure you that it creates no unfair advantage, other than I dont suffer asthma attacks.

This thing with Peta is asinine ... unless as DocRay pointed out, the substances identified are used as masking agents for dope that is actually a P.E.D.
But you actually have asthma. I think most riders with the TUE really don't so the question is what effect does it have on an un-afflicted rider...and secondly, will Petacchi pay the new year's salary fine per the new legally unenforceable contract, since he signed the agreement too.

For me the interesting part is the Charter...Petacchi signed it a few days ago...I assume in good faith to show he was on board so they would give him a break and let him ride in the Tour......Then all of a sudden they are asking for a 12 month suspension, ahhhh the plot thickens....

So if he is found guilty he will have to forfeit a years salary...OUCH!!! Also Milram has already stated if he is guilty they will fire him.....

So every rider that has signed the charter has given every right they had (which was not much to begin with). It has been mentioned many times before that the system is based on a non exact science....ratios not simply urinating on a strip and having a Plus sign appear...it is unfortunate, I for one wish it was that simple....

So in regards to Petacchi and what he did....did he get an unfair advantage by taking extra puffs from an inhaler? Can someone even answer that question? If he did then I think he should be guility....Bottom line is he had a responsibility to not over due it. He screwed up...If he did not get an unfair advantage then it should be dropped.

In my opinion two things should happen....The Court that the riders go to should be changed....the WADA should not be part of the process....they should not be picking the arbitrators for instance....it should be a court just like any other court...the riders should have some recourse for gaining back lost wages for being false prosecuted. I think this would make them think about things more before they accused riders of wrongdoing...

I am. It's ruining cycling. Until they can guarantee honest, largely mistake-free testing with FAIR, unbiased appeals processes, it's not fair to keep destroying careers. Granted, I'm not saying the cyclists are all dope free but it's not a fair process yet.

im there with you. the anti-doping system is so shoddy right now, to actually suspend riders out of it is a farse. its making everyone look like morons. i appreciate that they are tring to clean up the sport, but until they can get their **** together follow their own rules, and nab someone before they win big and make the conviction stick, they should just lay low. otherwise, they wont have a sport to police soon at this rate.

until they can start catching guys BEFORE they win, they cant claim much credibility. why cant they test theses guy's samples the day they are taken. What good is it to wait until a month after a race to say "we had a doper, and he won." test everyone who wins anything or is in the top 15 of GC every day. run the samples THAT DAY, and pull anyone suspicious before the next day's start. they could save them selfs a lot of black eyes by just acting faster and more professionally.

I think it's clear they forgive their own a hell of a lot quicker than they forgive others.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here? Are you saying Petacchi won't be welcome at the Tour when is suspension is over?

But you actually have asthma. I think most riders with the TUE really don't so the question is what effect does it have on an un-afflicted rider...and secondly, will Petacchi pay the new year's salary fine per the new legally unenforceable contract, since he signed the agreement too.

IIRC, Dr. Pete posted a medical study around a month ago +/- that concluded the use of asthma treatments (not sure which one studied, or if the study was all inclusive of asthma treatments) showed no performance enhancement if used by non-asthmatics.

IIRC, Dr. Pete posted a medical study around a month ago +/- that concluded the use of asthma treatments (not sure which one studied, or if the study was all inclusive of asthma treatments) showed no performance enhancement if used by non-asthmatics.
That's common sense to those of us (and there are a lot more of us than many of you realize), who have some form/degree of asthma. The meds help return us towards normal.

For me the interesting part is the Charter...Petacchi signed it a few days ago...I assume in good faith to show he was on board so they would give him a break and let him ride in the Tour......Then all of a sudden they are asking for a 12 month suspension, ahhhh the plot thickens....

So if he is found guilty he will have to forfeit a years salary...OUCH!!! Also Milram has already stated if he is guilty they will fire him.....

So every rider that has signed the charter has given every right they had (which was not much to begin with). It has been mentioned many times before that the system is based on a non exact science....ratios not simply urinating on a strip and having a Plus sign appear...it is unfortunate, I for one wish it was that simple....

So in regards to Petacchi and what he did....did he get an unfair advantage by taking extra puffs from an inhaler? Can someone even answer that question? If he did then I think he should be guility....Bottom line is he had a responsibility to not over due it. He screwed up...If he did not get an unfair advantage then it should be dropped.

In my opinion two things should happen....The Court that the riders go to should be changed....the WADA should not be part of the process....they should not be picking the arbitrators for instance....it should be a court just like any other court...the riders should have some recourse for gaining back lost wages for being false prosecuted. I think this would make them think about things more before they accused riders of wrongdoing...
They are redoing the Charter because in its current form it isn't legally enforceable. So will he challenge that fine or just pony up? That could be near 7 figures for him.

Also, if Petacchi measured 1,300 and the allowable limit is 1,000 he took more than just 'a few extra puffs'. He's 30% over the upper limit and probably 2-3 x what a normal dose would be. Those limits are always artificially high.


I'm not sure what you're getting at here? Are you saying Petacchi won't be welcome at the Tour when is suspension is over?
That's what I'm curious to find out. Whatever you're trying to read between the lines of what I said just isn't there so chill out.

IIRC, Dr. Pete posted a medical study around a month ago +/- that concluded the use of asthma treatments (not sure which one studied, or if the study was all inclusive of asthma treatments) showed no performance enhancement if used by non-asthmatics.
The article on Petacchi suggests otherwise:
"Studies have shown that in addition to aiding in the treatment of asthma, salbutamol can be used to increase an athlete's anaerobic power. According to study results, peak power appeared significantly earlier and was noticeably increased after salbutamol use."

Separately, there is the masking effect (for amphetamines?).

That's common sense to those of us (and there are a lot more of us than many of you realize), who have some form/degree of asthma. The meds help return us towards normal.
It doesn't appear to be common sense in the pro peloton. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess they know something we don't. I can find you a study that shows steroids have no performance enhancing benefit for aerobic athletes, just so you know. Figures don't lie...but liars do figure.

^^^ I read that blurb in the VN article, and honestly discounted it as a non-scientific journalist making a broad statement. The wording of non-scientific articles when discussing scientific studies always concerns me, things like using the words "anaerobic power", "studies", "significantly earlier", "noticeably increased" ... all mean nothing as presented in the VN article and IMO are about as valid as me posting the same thing on BF.:eek:

If any more people drop out, I think I'll sign up for Le Tour.

So would most of the cycling community. But many of us would test positive. We drink tons of coffee in the morning (see the Starbucks cups that look like dums?), alcohol in the evening to come down and viagra at night for, well, you know. And, every time someone in your office gets a cold, how many people ask them what they're taking. Let's face it, if this kind of scrutiny was placed on the entire US, our national team would be made up of 10 year olds and nuns.

How the hell did all these asthmatics end up in the high-end cardiovascular world of pro cycling anyway?

:rolleyes:

Yeah! There are more asthmatics riding in the Tour than I ever thought existed. But hey, the internet is your friend with all the answers:

LINKY (http://www.healthline.com/hlbook/nut-cycling-1)

Interesting forum thread on Salbutamol from 2003 discussing Galdeano (http://www.cyclingforums.com/t24277.html)

It appears that to get over 1000ng/L of Salbutamol in your blood you'd have to have that inhaler going full time. Definitely not just taking one or two extra hits over the prescribed dosage.

This post seems to indicate that you more or less can't exceed the UCI limit just by using an inhaler, but you can by taking it in pill form.


Typical inhaled dose of Salbutamol/Albuterol/Ventolin is 200 microgram (2 puffs at 100microgram
each) or 200000 nanogram Typical amount of blood in a body is 4500ml

So if all your salbutamol ended up in your blood (unlikely, as any user will know) you could get a
blood concentration of 44ng/ml from one dose, and if you took another one before the first had been
metabolized or excreted, and so on,I suppose you might get up to almost twice this concentration or
90ng/ml. To do this, you'd be taking 2 puffs on your inhaler every 3 to 4 hours throughout the day.
I've done this when I've been suffering very badly with asthma, and believe me when you need this
much salbutamol just to be able to walk around the apartment, the last thing on your mind is going
for a bike ride, much less competing in a race. So there is no way anybody taking inhaled salbutamol
for therapeutic reasons should be walking around with a level above 100ng/ml, because if they needed
more than this they'd probably be admitted to hospital. Because the inhalation method is so
effective, the dose required is very small. Taking salbutamol orally for the same effect requires a
dose of about 4 milligram, 20 times the level of the inhaled dose. As a result, you might
conceivably have a blood concentration of 900ng/ml from taking one 4mg tablet. When I was a boy,
inhalers were uncommon and I had the 4mg tablets; the high blood concentration of salbutamol makes
the side effects much worse, which is why most people are prescribed inhalers these days.

Now we need somebody to tell us the relationship between these blood concentrations and the amount
likely to be found in a urine sample. Just for the sake of waving our arms in the general area, if
you excreted the whole 200 micrograms in 500ml of urine, that would be 400ng/ml.

Kinky Cowboy

This Alice in Wonderland justice, sentence first, trial later. The guy was allowed to take sambuterol and he tests above a certain level, which he is entitled to do as long as he can show it came from an inhaler, but before anyone investigates this or he is allowed to explain what happened,he can't race in the Tour.

This is getting stupid. This anti-drug/doping paranoia is completely out of hand.

This anti-drug/doping paranoia is completely out of hand.

What do you mean by that? Who told you to say that? I'm not paranoid. Maybe you are the one who's paranoid. Did you think about that? Hmmm? Maybe you, the ProTour teams, the UCI, WADA, USADA, and Floyd Landis' manager are all in collusion to ruin the sport of cycling so that barbecuing can get more air time on Versus...