Advocacy & Safety - Bollards--Are they needed?

Bollards are the posts that stick up in the middle of a bike trail at intersections with roads to keep motorists from entering a trail.

Are they stilll needed?

I know several cyclists who have been injured hitting bollards, but I don't know of any injuries caused by unauthorized vehicles on bike trails.

I believe the use of bollards is overdone.

What do you think?

I don't see why they are needed. The cure is worst than the diesese.

Target fixation. :lol:

If one can not avoid hitting a bollard then one should stay off a bicycle.

I know several cyclists who have been injured hitting bollards, but I don't know of any injuries caused by unauthorized vehicles on bike trails.

I believe the use of bollards is overdone.

What do you think?
Perhaps the presence of the bollards are the reason why you haven't heard of unauthorized vehicles on whatever bike trails you know.:rolleyes:

I've seen people (teens mostly) drive golf carts on trails without bollards, and kids riding electric scooters on trails with them. I don't see them as an issue. Mostly they do what they're intended to do with little hinderance to bike riders.

When I was in high school, if the bike trail didn't have bollards on it, I would have taken my car on it.

I want to complain that the bollards were removed from Bayville Ave. in Bayville , Long Island, New York.

Bayville Road has "Bike Route " signage, so is seemed like the bollards were a good idea. The flood-plain was raised three feet on the curve where Bayville Road becomes Bayville Avenue. In addition , the old wooden boardwalk was replaced with concrete. But the bollards were gone!

I am rather disapointed. The missing bollards were painted blue, and were double bollards, two bollards cast into the same iron base.

There is no way a car can hit a bollard and go on to injure a bicyclist or pedestrian. Wayward motorists be damned, I want the bollards back.

Related to my path, the parish's vehicles who do maintenance on the bridge above still get onto the path with the bollards. If someone wanted to get onto the path, they would with or without the bollards. I don't like them since you have to be careful guiding your bike through mine, while looking for turning vehicles behind you. More hassle than it is worth.

Target fixation. :lol:

If one can not avoid hitting a bollard then one should stay off a bicycle.

Methinks bollard height/spacing is different, dependant on where you live.

The bollards on the local trails around here are either just a little too tight to ride comfortably through or if they are too tight, they are just a little too tall to comfortably ride through without pedal strike. I wuss out and walk through. . .

If one can not avoid hitting a bollard then one should stay off a bicycle.

Exactly

there are a ton of bollards on the lakeshore cycling route here in toronto. Some aren't spaced out evenly and it's only possible to go through certain openings. Some are located right at or right before a turn, so you can't take the turn at any high speed.
But probably all for the better since there are a lot of roller bladers and pedestrians on that route all the time too.

If you're hitting the bollards, you probably need to either slow down or get some lights for when you ride at night.

Could have used some bollards here (http://bikeportland.org/2007/05/16/cyclist-says-truck-ran-him-down-on-i-205-bike-path/).


Bollard 101:

When passing through the bollards, don't look at the post... look at the spot on the pavement 30 feet beyond the bollard that you want your saddle to pass over.

there are a ton of bollards on the lakeshore cycling route here in toronto..

There's probably several tons of bollards. Bollards weigh about 600 pounds each.

As far as I'm concerned, they don't belong on any trail or road, just like they don't belong on a street. There is one way to keep motorized traffic off a path: send once or twice cops on motorcycles. The word will quickly be out!

Two of the features of a good bike/multi-user path are that it should be enjoyable and efficient. For enjoyment, I need not to cope with ultra-narrow passages and steep slopes and unperfect curb cuts at each intersections where, just by co-incidence, I don't have priority and have to stop for all other traffic. For enjoyment and efficiency, I also need not to have to slow down needlessly, especially downhill on rural paths.

For the record, I have never hit any of these, but try to stay away from many paths and trails precisely because of such obstacles. Dealing with them repeatedly with a single bike is not fun; dealing with them repeatedly with a loaded touring bike or worst, with a loaded triplet bike is a pain in the rear end, especially when they are located close to a curve, or off-axis.

Unrestricted access to bike path = another place to find illegally parked cars.

True, but that may be a problem everywhere. Basically a parked car doesn't bother me.

There was a thread on here not that many months ago about a drunk guy killing a cyclist who was riding on an MUP. Yup, the DUI driver was driving his car along the MUP. Go ask that cyclists family what they think about this subject.
I was out towing my son on the MUP early this spring when a motorist pulled onto the MUP and was heading right towards us. aparantly he thought he was on the road that runs along side the path... which is actually 8 inches lower than the path itself at that area.
So yeah, I think the bollards are still needed. If a cyclist cannot maneuver around them when need be then they have other issues than the existance of bollards. If they can't avoid hitting a BIG YELLOW post then I fear for them when they are in traffic. ;)

Some of the topics that show up on this board amaze me . . . it would never dawn on me to complain that bollards represent such a danger or an inconvenience for cyclists. None of the bollards I have ever encountered are so close that someone who has been riding any length of time at all would have trouble negotiating them on a bike . . . of course, I would never doubt those of you who cite such examples. I would be curious to know the spacing between those bollards.

They are, obviously, installed to prevent vehicles wider than the allotted space to pass, and, generally, succeed in prevented those vehicles from gaining access to the path . . . who amongst cyclists would really want to oppose that?

I am curious, though, in most of the parks where I occasionally ride (I tend to favor the road), the path entrances are controlled via a combination of bollards and gates or chains so that park personnel can drive maintenance/enforcement vehicles on the path. What is done in your area in that regard?

Just curious.

Caruso

Methinks bollard height/spacing is different, dependant on where you live.

The bollards on the local trails around here are either just a little too tight to ride comfortably through or if they are too tight, they are just a little too tall to comfortably ride through without pedal strike. I wuss out and walk through. . .
Which are you talking about?

Bollards:

http://www.automateddoorsinc.com/images/photos/bollard.jpg[/URL]





Parking blocks;

[URL="http://www.substiwood.com/PARK-BLOCK06140052.jpg"]http://www.substiwood.com/PARK-BLOCK06140052.jpg (http://www.automateddoorsinc.com/images/photos/bollard.jpg)

I think the bollards on my town's MUP are alright, but I actually think that a big downside to them is that they'd make it hard to get a tricycle in. I have seen a guy on a hand-cranked trike there before, and it sorta makes me wonder how he got it past them.

I vote yes, because of that thread with the drunk that tried to run from cops on the MUP...

I'm not crazy about the things, although I might use them selectively in places where a driver might be likely to mistake the path for a road, or where the path is such a tempting shortcut that drivers might decide to cut through it on purpose.

If they are going to put bollards at the ends of a path, though, I have three slightly rant-like requests:

Rant #1: Just use a single bollard in the center of the path, instead of a maze of bollards and fencing that makes the cyclist dismount and pick their way through. Yes, we can see that there is an intersection here. No, we don't need to be forced to walk through the intersection "for our own safety".

Rant #2: Place the bollard only at an intersection where a car might otherwise enter the path, not at random spots on the path itself for no discernable reason.

Rant #3: For god's sake, put some reflectors on the damned thing! Especially if it's dark-colored, and you're choosing to violate Rant #2!

True, but that may be a problem everywhere. Basically a parked car doesn't bother me.

But ON THE PATH? I mean, the MUPs around here aren't much wider than a parked car. Two weeks ago the entrance to the local MUP was blocked by a car that had parked in it and opened both doors. I basically had to stop and ask him to close ONE of his doors so I could get by. I have no idea what he was doing.

Rant #2: Place the bollard only at an intersection where a car might otherwise enter the path, not at random spots on the path itself for no discernable reason.

Rant #3: For god's sake, put some reflectors on the damned thing! Especially if it's dark-colored, and you're choosing to violate Rant #2!

I will agree with that.

The MUP I usually ride has chain link fence posts in the middle of the path at one point. I'm guessing that that was at one time an entrance to the MUP, but is no longer, but still...

The problem with bollards in my area is that they are short, about 24 inches high, most are either 6X6 steel or wooden, they are painted dull gray, or have weathered to a dark brown. Usually they are 3 feet from a road edge so that when starting from a stop, a lot of cyclist weave. Many cyclists do not stop at every intersection, they slow and look for traffic. Many will weave when look left or right. When group ride, those behind don't get a clear vision of obstruction ahead.

All of these factors cause accidents at bollards.

We are a mostly rural area. Most of the bollards in the urban trail have already been removed. They seem to remain in the most unpopulated areas.

For the record, I've never hit a bollard. But I have seen some very experienced riders, as well as inexperienced riders hit them.

Don't mind bollards as long as they at visible, maintained and there is only one.

Some of the ones near DC are problems.
On one of our local mup's, a bollard had broken off. They left a rusted stump sticking out for several years. After many complaints and several accidents (including me), they cut it off at ground level.
On another mup, several bollards were missing. That would be fine, except that it was designed with a raised sleeve that stuck up several inches. They eventually cut off the sleeves.
On a rail trail near Baltimore, the typical trail protection isn't a bollard. It's a gate with a very narrrow gap that you have to thread thru very slowly. And on part of the trail in PA there are offset gates where the opening is parallel to the trail instead of straight. You pretty much have to walk your bike thru.

I am curious, though, in most of the parks where I occasionally ride (I tend to favor the road), the path entrances are controlled via a combination of bollards and gates or chains so that park personnel can drive maintenance/enforcement vehicles on the path. What is done in your area in that regard?
I didn't realize until I saw the picture that these posts were about concrete pillars. Our MUP's have a variation on this that seems better to me. I don't have pictures, but basically there are two posts on either side of the path entry way. If those were the only deterrents, they wouldn't work because any truck could fit through there. In the middle of the path entry, there is a steel post. It can be 'unlocked' and lowered so that vehicles may pass over it. I suppose Parks and Rec has the keys, as well as some emergency services personnel. The posts are painted bright yellow. I've never heard of anyone getting hurt by running into them. I never even really thought about them much until I saw this thread.

edit: I found a picture:

http://www.triangletrails.org/images/RIDDLE8-02B.JPG

I didn't realize until I saw the picture that these posts were about concrete pillars. Our MUP's have a variation on this that seems better to me. I don't have pictures, but basically there are two posts on either side of the path entry way. If those were the only deterrents, they wouldn't work because any truck could fit through there. In the middle of the path entry, there is a steel post. It can be 'unlocked' and lowered so that vehicles may pass over it. I suppose Parks and Rec has the keys, as well as some emergency services personnel. The posts are painted bright yellow. I've never heard of anyone getting hurt by running into them. I never even really thought about them much until I saw this thread.



Same set up here with removable center post, I don't think we really need it, since our city removes it in winter for x-country skiiers, groomers and I would imagine it would be a hazzard when it's covered in 4feet snow. No problem with autos in winter so far... although you do get idiot snowmobilers

I don't have a big problem with the metal posts on the lakeshore trail - I think they do block some car access to the path, but I do object to those points where one has been cut, and there is a 2-5 cm stump sticking out of the ground - ouch :eek:!

I find that bollards are very hazardous for me and those I ride with. When our pace line is motoring along the MUP at 25-30 mph it can really do some damage!

Kidding! (<---- That's what the pregnant goat said!)

Seriously, bollards are just one of the many hazards that keep me on the road where it is safe to ride. At least there traffic has rules and most people are obeying them.

I think bollards are like many other things. Decent implimentation makes all the difference in the world. I can think of one spot on the Santa Monica Beach bike path where the path enters the road (Fiji Way). Without the Bollards it would look just like a driveway and I's sure sooner or later someone would turn into it. But at first there were too many, too little room and no as far as I know no one hit them. Far worse. With too many you ended up square to the road. Someone had too much speed or was not paying enough attention. He went too far into the traffic lane and got cleaned out. I didn't see it happen. I came by in time to see him being taken away strapped to a backboard. Guess it could have been worse. A backboard means you are still alive.

I'm pro-bollard.

http://gothamist.com/2006/12/02/drunk_driver_ki.php

My main thing, is I wish that 1, they were short enough that your handlebars would be over them, especially when they are used on relatively narrow paths, and 2, if/when they are stuck by a car that they get replaced quickly. There is one that I know of that got hit by a car, who knows how long ago, that is bent to one side reducing the amount of room to go around it on one side.

Oh yeah, another complaint with the planning of one that I know if. About a foot past it on the side of he path is a large storm grate with slits parallel to the pathway. It ends up being an annoying obstacle course: swerve to avoid pillar, swerve the other way to avoid storm grate. It's really fun trying to avoid both when you are turning onto the path at that intersection.

However, on paths that are decently wide-enough. I have no problem with them, just need to use some common sense in their implimentation.

I'm talking about bollards, not parking blocks