Road Cycling - Sheriff's Deputy pitches a fit: Was I all wrong?

Today, I was out on one of my regular rides when I was pulled over by a sheriff's deputy. He just started yelling at me that I must remain as far on the right as possible at all times. He contended that I was not doing that and that I was not making it safe for passing cars (BTW, there weren't any). He zeroed in on one move that I will describe presently. His level of anger was downright scary. In the presence of angry people with guns, I tend to become quiet and let them have their say. When he was finally done spluttering, he drove off--maybe he was late for anger management group.

Here's what preceded our "meeting." I was on a mountain road that I have ridden at least 150 times before. It's a 5 mile up and down, moderately steep. The road is of variable quality, but heavily patched. There is no bike lane. Traffic is always very light to non-existent. Today, I don't remember seeing any cars suring the ascent and as I began my descent. On such very light traffic days I am more concerned about deer charging across the road at the wrong time, for me, that is. In the upper reaches of the descent, I can ride safely at about 30-33 miles. I know the road well and I know where the potholes, etc. are. I use a rearview mirror attached to my glasses to check on traffic behind me. The steepest descent winds a bit, I usually take it about 38 mph. It's really a lot of fun. I constantly check for traffic and slow down if I need to. All the way down the steepest part, there was no traffic on either side of the road. There's a big fairly flat turn at the bottom and then a big bump in the road caused by a tree root. The bump runs from the side of the road and continues for two thirds of the way to the center line. If traffic permits (which is about 99 percent of the time), I move into the center of the lane to avoid the bump (which can be jarring at high speeds).

Unfortunately, today, the deputy must have entered the road behind me shortly before the big curve and stopped me about a quarter mile down. My move to center of the road irked him. He said that I should never do that under any conditions.

What I feel I did wrong was not to signal the move. Most of the time I do that. Today was not one of those. I feel that on the poorly repaired rural roads around here, keeping right all the time is not a safe option. Actually, the roads can be a bit like obstacle courses. I observe traffic behind me and if there is none, I move to the smooth part of the lane. Also, if I'm on a road with more traffic and there is a hazard coming up, I check my rear view mirror. If the traffic is far enough back I will signal that I am moving left and then move into the center of the lane. When I pass the hazard, I signal and move back to the right. Am I wrong in doing that?

Rich

How far to the right you ride depends on how fast you go. Doing a fast descent with your wheel 1 ft from the edge is bordering suicidal. You are fully entitled to take the lane if safety requires you to do so. Get a copy of your local traffic regulations, but most say "as far to the right as practicable"

I don't know how the law is written in your area, but Georgia law makes safety exceptions to the "as far to the right" rule. Here is the way it reads:

"(a) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall ride as near
to the right side of the roadway as practicable, except when turning
left or avoiding hazards to safe cycling, when the lane is too narrow
to share safely with a motor vehicle, when traveling at the same speed
as traffic, or while exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle
or one proceeding in the same direction; provided, however, that every
person operating a bicycle away from the right side of the roadway shall
exercise reasonable care and shall give due consideration to the other
applicable rules of the road. As used in this subsection, the term
'hazards to safe cycling' includes, but is not limited to, surface debris,
rough pavement, drain grates which are parallel to the side of the roadway,
parked or stopped vehicles, potentially opening car doors, or any other
objects which threaten the safety of a person operating a bicycle."


Do you know how your law is worded? If the officer crossed over the line in terms of the law in your area it might be worth a friendly call to his superior to suggest that officers get some training, both in laws applying to bicycles, and in control of their temper when they are dealing with the public.

I find it ridiculous that this officer was worried about the safety of passing cars. I'm sure if a car were to hit you on your 20 pound cycle, the driver's safety would be really in jeopardy. :rolleyes:

You dont understand.If the cop says your in the wrong,you are because he is the law.Thats what your taxes pay for.They do forget WE pay them.

You shouldn't have pulled over. Just keep riding when he is behind you with the lights on. I only say this because I want to see that chase on COPS someday.

Unfortunatly because you've neglected to fill in your location I can't provide you with the pertinent traffic laws for your area.

Originally posted by Raiyn
Unfortunatly because you've neglected to fill in your location I can't provide you with the pertinent traffic laws for your area.

I'm in Santa Cruz county California. Of course, I should have given this info in the original post.

Thanks, everyone, for your posts.

Rich

You mean where everybody rides bikes?Maybe it was his first day and didnt know that like 2out of every 3 people ride up there.He probally never noiticed.

He probably got a hold of a bad donut or something. Dont sweat it. Ride where it is safe, when it is safe. You dont want to go over the edge of a mountain.

Thank you:
Duty of Bicycle Operator: Operation On Roadway. VC 21202

a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:

When overtaking and passing another bicycle or motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane

source: http://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm

The DIP-u-ty was wrong

WHOOMP!!!! There it is. :p

Stinger. I live in Californa; been there done that under exactly the same road conditions- except yet no cop was behind me. I agree can't argue with such irrational people.
Even the motorists behind me seem to understand my situation, on such roads and seem patient. Whats up with this guy- he needs understand the needs of cyclists in regards to potholes, etc. Get police car number- think I would quote the law and anomously write his squad leader a letter explaining the situation with a formal complaint. In some areas there are police review boards. More than likely it was the Sheriff.
This cop needs understand the law he is required to know for all of our safety.

Deputy Dawg to the rescue!

Apparently, this guy is on some sort of a power trip. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should report it. That guy, being so madly angry over such a little issue (even if he were correct), is a danger to people. Folks legally carrying guns should be required to be mentally stable and controlling whatever anger they may have. There have certainly been cases in California when cops shot people in a road rage fit. I think this is dangerous and could cost someone life one day. It is bad enough that there are "red necks" driving vehicle as a weapon, but police is someone we all count on for our safety, not otherwise.

Originally posted by ComPH
It is bad enough that there are "red necks" driving vehicle as a weapon,

I get so pis$ed off by comments like this. Stop stereotyping people. It is wrong, hurtful and untrue. I have had way more negative encounters with yuppie office types, soccer moms and "gangster" types. And I live and ride in "redneck" country.

I am sorry if I offended you. By "red necks" I meant people easily upset and angry, ready to use violence to solve their problems or for entertainment. These may indeed be yuppie office types and the others you listed. I didn't mean to offend any geographical region, I was referring to behavior. Again, I appologize if I unfairly offended anyone who took it as a regional insult.

BS,it was funny.We know the type,shotgun rack in the rear window of the pickup truck,with or without shotgun,LOL.

I know what you mean by avoiding road obsticles. I have to deal with the same thing. Most drivers around here are pretty understandable it seems, thankfully. They know how the roads are... they take such a beating from the harsh winters (and tax money is needed to pay for plowing snow and such... no money available for road repairs)


Originally posted by shokhead
You dont understand.If the cop says your in the wrong,you are because he is the law.Thats what your taxes pay for.They do forget WE pay them.

They aren't the law.
They enforce the law. That is all.
Cops ARE wrong quite often, actually. They are human, and are flawed, like all humans. They are definetly not always right.

Originally posted by shokhead
BS,it was funny.We know the type,shotgun rack in the rear window of the pickup truck,with or without shotgun,LOL.

Stereotyping is wrong! I am sorry but you are an a$s. I supose you laugh at racist jokes also?

Stinger, one question if you can clarify:

At the point when you moved left into the center of the lane, was the deputy already right behind you? Could he have already been beginning to pass you?

While his loss of cool and ignorance of the law aren't excusable, having a bike "swerve" in front of you, causing you to have to hit the brakes, can scare a driver, cop or not. And people often react to fear with aggression.

As far as the "keep right at all times" bit, I keep a small laminated printout of the bike-specific part of the PA traffic code in my bike bag. It's come in useful more than once to actually be able to quote the letter of the law. There's a big difference between "possible" and "practicable," and most (all?) states' codes provide for exceptions to the keep-right rule "when it is unsafe to do so."

RichC

Light'n up.Thats the problem.

Kev,

I can see the issue of stereotyping is big for you but be consistent. You go on about "yuppie office types, soccer moms, 'gangster' types".........

If that ain't stereotyping, what is?

Originally posted by Flaneur
Kev,

I can see the issue of stereotyping is big for you but be consistent. You go on about "yuppie office types, soccer moms, 'gangster' types".........

If that ain't stereotyping, what is?

I was just using those as examples, I dont assume anything when I see someone I judge everyone by there own actions.
I dont accuse people of things just because they have a "gun rack" or drive a suv or BMW.
Rural americans get a bum rap and I dont like it. If he would have said something stereotypical about Hispanics or African-Americans a lot of people would be up in arms. But he said it about "Rednecks" so that is ok. I call bull$hit on that.

Good on ya, KevinG! Labels suck! :crash:

Maybe this officer has responded to one too many fatal accidents in his career and has seen the aftermath of what happens when stupid people do stupid things. Perhaps he jumped to this conclusion with what little he saw when he encountered Stinger.

I'm not saying his over-reaction was justified but cops do get to see all the gruesome ways people kill themselves, intentionally or not, and then get the pleasure of notifying the deceased's family, in person, of their untimely passing.

The Sheriff's Dept. should have an area dedicated to taking citizen complaints. If you pass on your concern with this officer's reaction, you should be given the opportunity to explain your side of the situation and they should be able to provide you with an explanation. Sometimes, when both parties have a full understanding of where the other is coming from, these issues can be easily resolved.

Good luck.

It must be different up there.Cops dont have to listen to anybody.They also see what they want to see.They also dont have to understand anything.I work in the bad part of long beach in so cal and we cant get them over there.I work at a school and they dont want to be bothered with drivers running stop signs,thru crosswalks,double parking going the wrong way,broken down cars parked in the same place place forever.They dont respond belive me,20 years of this and they dont respond.Why?They can do what they want and for who they want.Belive it.They can arrest you for no reason,ticket you for no reason,beat you for no reason,hassle you for no reason,ect,ect,ect.Oh yea,they scare the hell out of me and i pay for it.

Kev,

I gotta call you on this one. You are labelling people in the same way you decry. Calling it "just using those as examples" doesn't excuse it. You clearly imply that certain groups drive dangerously, in your experience. What do you think a "gangster type" is, anyhow? (apart from someone whose driving concerns you, obviously) You aren't just judging these people by their actions, as you suggest, but also attaching pejorative labels and grouping them, based on other visual clues. The clues are not sufficient in themselves to make informed judgements, hence, without yourself being racist or sexist or anti-yuppie, you are making the mistake you accuse others of.

What constitutes a 'yuppie type'? Do they wear ties, vote republican, drive certain brands of car, work in advertising?

Do you see what I'm getting at? We all use stereotypes as a descriptive starting point, until we have enough knowledge to make more accurate and detailed judgements. You and I do it. In this case, you were offended by use of the negatively connoted (in your mind, on this occasion) expression "redneck".

Yesterday you labelled me, after replying to a thread I started. You didn't choose to share your opinions on the variety of issues I raised (however clumsily;))- merely attaching an amusing stereotype to the little bits of thoughts I had posted.

-but I might have been as offended by the term 'Hippie' as you are by the term 'Redneck'...........

eric

Originally posted by Rich Clark
Stinger, one question if you can clarify:

At the point when you moved left into the center of the lane, was the deputy already right behind you? Could he have already been beginning to pass you?

RichC

Good question, Rich. I originally was going to talk about that in my original post, but I was getting long-winded.

I checked behind me before starting the move left. I didn't see any cars, but he could have been obscured by the big curve in the road. But that would have put me about 100 years ahead of him. He could have come around the bend or come out of the side road and saw what I was doing from a safe distance.

He never said that I swerved in front of him. He said that he was observing how I was riding and didn't like it. He was saying that bike riders should never take the lane.

BTW, my biggest worry about that maneuver is oncoming traffic in the opposite direction. There is a despicable habit of many mountain drivers of riding partially or sometimes even totally on the wrong side of the road to make the curves easier on their driving incompetence. That's a big worry with taking the lane on mountain roads. I doubt if the idiots who do that ever get stopped by the authorities.

To answer your question concisely: I did not swerve in front of the black and white.

Rich

Originally posted by shokhead
It must be different up there.Cops dont have to listen to anybody.They also see what they want to see.They also dont have to understand anything.I work in the bad part of long beach in so cal and we cant get them over there.I work at a school and they dont want to be bothered with drivers running stop signs,thru crosswalks,double parking going the wrong way,broken down cars parked in the same place place forever.They dont respond belive me,20 years of this and they dont respond.Why?They can do what they want and for who they want.Belive it.They can arrest you for no reason,ticket you for no reason,beat you for no reason,hassle you for no reason,ect,ect,ect.Oh yea,they scare the hell out of me and i pay for it.

Maybe this link will help. Give it a try, you've got nothing to lose.

http://www.longbeachpd.org/Internal_Affairs_Procedures/citizen_complaint_eng.htm

Stinger, as a follow up to my earlier post, try contacting the Professional Standards Section at 454-2332 (Santa Cruz Country Sheriff's Office). This section deals strictly with complaints against officers.

Good luck.

I really feel supported by the information and concern that has been expressed here. I agree with Rockymtn_girl that his overreacting might have something to do with accidents he might have seen. Also, in the next county, Monterey, there is a sheriff's scandal which is getting worse every day. Maybe that is stressing out our deputies, too.

After having spent 42 of my 58 years under the hegemony of first the NYPD and later the LAPD, I developed a fear of the police. Avoid them at all costs, I learned. When I moved to northern California, I have found that I have had some really good interaction with peace officers. Most often easygoing and helpful. That's why this incident really surprised me.

Rich

Originally posted by Stinger9oh
To answer your question concisely: I did not swerve in front of the black and white.

Yeah, it didn't sound like you did, but I do like to give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt, if there is one. Sounds like there isn't, and the man was just over the line.

In your shoes I'd probably compose a letter to the sherriff, objectively and very briefly describing what happened (time, date, location), what the deputy said, and how he misinterpreted the law. I'd quote the correct law exactly, and suggest that perhaps his officers could benefit from having their memories refreshed. Not asking for an apology or any remedial action, just being a good citizen and bringing a problem to his attention.

But just venting here and then letting it go also works.

RichC

Flaneur
The stereotypes I used were trying to find one that would hit close to home with shokhead. I was thinking he could relate to one on a personal level so maybe he could see where I was coming from.

As far as calling you a hippie it was good natured ribbing. If I offended you I am sorry. There is a differance between the referances.
Kevin

Does anyone do outreach to police, and get their outreach in return, in order to help police do a better job of patrolling to enhance cyclist safety, and in turn to help cyclists see opportunities to enhance their own safety, and to operate in a manner that has the least adverse impact on other highway users?

I work with Police Officers on a weekly basis and find them to be very normal people doing a job that they love and hate. They rarely see people at their best and usually see them at their worst. The officer may have just been to a really bad situation and you were just at the wrong place at the wrong time for him.

When you confront an officer they become very defensive since they are constantly under attack by the system for which they work. Try to keep this in mind when you try to work out this situation.

You might want to immediately get in touch with the Department where the officer works and see if there is a video tape of the event. Try to view the tape with the officers superior. Viewing it from the video tape will either reinforce or change you perception as to what really happened. If it is as you say, then the Department may be able to help reconcile a resolution to this matter.

Good luck and let us know how this gets resolved.

I'm proud to be a pick-up drivin,beer drinkin,shotgun totin,tobacco chewin,cousin marrying,butt scratchin REDNECK...And my biggest joy is runnin over you leg shavin,lycra wearin,little debbie eatin,middle of the road riding,skinny ass little cyclists. Go ahead and send out one of those donut eatin,coffee drinkin,lard ass,arrogant,pants pulled to their neck,gun totin,sheriffs and I'll kick his or her butt...Hows that for some generalities

LOL I like it.

The reason I favor complaining of the officiers actions is not to get back at some jerk, but because if an officier does not realize;1- he does not know the law, 2-makes us ride in potholes, we just might be thrown in front of his vehicle anyway, 3- finally, lo and behold, does not interpretating the law say the motorist on rare ocassions might have to yield to our right of way, requiring this person to take their foot off of the gas pedal and wow! slow down. I know action three is a real rarity.

Originally posted by cyclezealot
lo and behold, does not interpretating the law say the motorist on rare ocassions might have to yield to our right of way, requiring this person to take their foot off of the gas pedal and wow! slow down. I know action three is a real rarity.

The funny part is that I never have had any trouble with a motorist around here for taking the lane. Most people know the road conditions and understand that the cyclist is moving out into the lane to avoid a hazard. The deputy I encountered did not seem to understand that.

Rich

Or did'nt car.

Stinger. Yes, on twisty mountain roads motorists seem to understand and treat us with consideration. My comment about never slowing down to yield is based on motorists behavior in urban areas- there the jerk in all of us seems to be more intensified. They seem then to be in a full race mode. City streets have potholes also.

Here in Ohio, you must ride as far to the right as safety permits. Since you knew about the rut, you moved the the left because it was more safe to do so. Next time, take a ticket,fight it and let us know what happens.

Originally posted by Stinger9oh
I checked behind me before starting the move left. I didn't see any cars, but he could have been obscured by the big curve in the road. But that would have put me about 100 years ahead of him.

Are you sure about the grade of the hill? The relativistic effects might have been enough to piss off the officer.

Stinger,

I am guessing that you were probably traveling pretty close to the safe speed for that road. (Eureka Canyon Rd., perhaps) If you were traveling as fast as the automobile traffic then you're entitled to the entire lane. You only have to stay to the right if you are moving more slowly than the normal speed of traffic.

This happens to me quite a lot when descending the mountain roads. I take the lane because 1.) I am traveling at the normal traffic speed 2.) it prevents cars from unsafely passing me. Frequently I have to slow down and sit behind the cars as they descend.

SteveE

I really believe that it was ignorance on the part of the officer. Having said that, I'm not sure how your educate him.

Funny thing- I was coming off the bike path on the lakefront and I was riding on the sidewalk, and this officer puts his hand up like he's waving, so I smile and say good morning! And he says "I'm not saying good morning! I'm telling you to stop!", and he proceeds to tell me that if you're over the age of 12, you can't ride on the sidewalks (I read in the bike laws that in the City of Chicago, there is an exception, and you can ride your bikes on the sidewalk, btw, but didn't mention that fact to him). I told him that I'd tried to exit the bike path and go into the street and proceed with a left hand turn, but when I did, cars would honk at me, so I wondered if it was legal to do- and that's why I was ridiing on the sidewalk. I emphasized to him that I do not make it a habit of riding on sidewalks, and I mentioned the century I recently did on Saturday to emphasize that point (cause you can't ride sidewalks for 100 miles now! ;) ), and he smiled at me, and just said he was concerned for my safety, and if I exited the path, it would not be a good idea to get onto the street and make that left hand turn because cars may be likely to hit me- traffic is dangerous, he said. I told him that I frequently make left handed turns anyway, and that I know what the risks are. He said he thought I did, but he was just concerned for my safety- he mentioned a motorcycle accident where some guy was trying to turn left at the light on his motorcycle, and a car came up behind the guy on the motorcycle and struck him. So he was concerned that the same may happen to me. So I asked him what he thought I should do when exiting the bike lane, and he told me that I should jump into the street, then go an extra block west, then go two blocks south to get back onto my street. I thanked him for his consideration- I told him "I feel ya" when he told me of his concerns and he laughed, then we both laughed at another cyclist that saw me talking with him who immediately jumped off his bike on the sidewalk and rapidly walked it down the street. I told the officer that I just lived at the end of the block so I would walk my bike, and do you know what? He told me to go ahead and ride it, but just be sure to ride it slow, and if there's a lot of pedestrians, I would know what to do- I said "yeah, I'll aim for them!". He laughed again, and he let me go, and I rode my bike on the sidewalk to my building and parked. I guess he just thought I was riding on the sidewalks too fast and that's what prompted him to

I really think officers do not know all the rules- or they know the rules of the state but not the city, or they know the rules of the city and not the state. I think my talk with the officer could have turned ugly if either of us had been in worse moods, but he was amusing, and I was smiling and having a good day. I also thought he was cute- he was talking with Chicago dialect (ie- "udder" for "other"). I think I amused him. So I probably got off pretty good today.

Haven't had a problem with police overreacting yet, but I'm thinking of downloading the rules of the road for cyclists and keeping it on me, and the next time a cop stops me, I can pull out the book and show him the laws, since no two officers can ever seem to agree on what the correct law is!

Originally posted by Rich Clark
Stinger, one question if you can clarify:

At the point when you moved left into the center of the lane, was the deputy already right behind you? Could he have already been beginning to pass you?

While his loss of cool and ignorance of the law aren't excusable, having a bike "swerve" in front of you, causing you to have to hit the brakes, can scare a driver, cop or not. And people often react to fear with aggression.

As far as the "keep right at all times" bit, I keep a small laminated printout of the bike-specific part of the PA traffic code in my bike bag. It's come in useful more than once to actually be able to quote the letter of the law. There's a big difference between "possible" and "practicable," and most (all?) states' codes provide for exceptions to the keep-right rule "when it is unsafe to do so."

RichC

Once again, Rich C shows the intelligent answer. VERY Good response Rich.

I am always mad when I hear about some cop doing this. If the law says that a bike is a motor vehicle you have every right they do. On the other hand you have to obey every law they do. This sounds no different than does a car swerving to miss a pot hole. I would have made a complaint. A car wouldn't signal to swerve.