Professional Cycling For the Fans - Why does the break away always fail?

From watching todays stage (stage 1) on VS: "The breakaway almost never succeeds"

Why not?

I noticed that today they kept attacking each other and not working together very well... but had they worked together and conserved energy, why couldn't the break have held?

It's not that easy, unless a group of people wanna throw everything into a TTT...

In the old days, when all a rider knew about anyone up the road was what was shouted at them by a spectator, break aways did succeed.

Now, they track all the guys with computers for exact location and speed, and tell the riders in the chase group by radio how fast they have to ride to catch them just before the end.

TCS

In the old days, when all a rider knew about anyone up the road was what was shouted at them by a spectator, break aways did succeed.

Now, they track all the guys with computers for exact location and speed, and tell the riders in the chase group by radio how fast they have to ride to catch them just before the end.

TCS

Which should, in theory, mean that they also tell the break away exactly how fast they have to ride to not be caught.

Which should, in theory, mean that they also tell the break away exactly how fast they have to ride to not be caught.

But it's easier for the big bunch to reel in a small breakaway.

It's not all doom and gloom for the break. There are bonuses along the route plus it gives some advertising to the sponsor.

The strongest riders do not always wind up in the break. The other teams usually react very quickly if the make-up of the breakaway is too strong. E.g. if the 3rd place GC rider is in the break, the team supporting the 1st place GC will typically try to shut down the break.

When a breakaway does work, though, it can make a huge difference. For example, Oscar Pereiro was down by 29 minutes, and essentially out of GC contention, before he gained 30 minutes in a breakaway on Stage 13 of last year's TdF. So even if a breakaway rarely works, it is usually worth the attempt.

Why not?

Because all things being equal, a handful of riders can never hold out against full peloton. But... sometimes the peloton miscalulates and leaves it to late. Aside from that, breakaway riders get their sponsor's name on TV for the day, pick up mountains points, intermediate sprints etc.

And as noted, the break slows down as the riders begin to sit on each other, and then play cat-and-mouse to try to win the stage at the end. Successful breaks that continue to work straight through until the end often have several riders who can mutually benefit - you win the stage, I move up into the top ten on GC, he gains intermediate sprint points.

Most successful unsuccessful breakaway? My vote for is Alex Stieda, 1986. He went puttering up the road on the first stage, picked up a few time bonuses before he was caught, wound up in yellow, went into ToF history and made his sponsor's investment pay off.

TCS

"We're cavemen - we're bad to the bone." Rob Roll, 1986 (right after 7/11 teammate Stieda pulled on the yellow jersey)

In the old days, when all a rider knew about anyone up the road was what was shouted at them by a spectator, break aways did succeed.

Now, they track all the guys with computers for exact location and speed, and tell the riders in the chase group by radio how fast they have to ride to catch them just before the end.

TCS


I know this won't happen, cause teams and organizations prefer more control not less. But if they wanted the races to be more open and unpredictable they would get rid of that sort of support. Just food and mechanical. No real time coaching.

Leave the race decisions up to the team as they are riding. Then we'd get to see how much of a leader some of the riders are.

I know this won't happen, cause teams and organizations prefer more control not less. But if they wanted the races to be more open and unpredictable they would get rid of that sort of support. Just food and mechanical. No real time coaching.

Leave the race decisions up to the team as they are riding. Then we'd get to see how much of a leader some of the riders are.

yeah, but it's too far along now. during the last tour they showed some of the displays that are available in the team cars. directors can monitor each riders heart rate, speed, power output, cadence, etc. it's all available in real time.

Most breakaways are doomed to fail, since a small paceline can't usually outrun a peloton, so the real question is not "why do they fail?", but rather "why do they try?".

And it has been partly answered in the thread: bonus points, publicity, faint hope of an actual stage win...
One other reason might be team tactics. If it would suit your team to have a fast peloton and it's going too slow, you encourage a member of your team to break away and force the peloton to chase.

Most breakaways are doomed to fail, since a small paceline can't usually outrun a peloton, so the real question is not "why do they fail?", but rather "why do they try?".

And it has been partly answered in the thread: bonus points, publicity, faint hope of an actually stage win...
One other reason might be team tactics. If it would suit your team to have a fast peloton and it's going too slow, you encourage a member of your team to break away and force the peloton to chase.


Correct,

making other teams work hard now may pay off down the road so to speak.

This is why sometimes the GC hopefull from team A will let the yellow jersey go to a "lesser rider" on team B. Team A can rest and be strong when needed in the descisive mountain stages, while Team B will be pressued to work hard daily to defend the jersey.

I really would like to see radios done away with. It would make the show much better. But as said earlier, they are too much a part of the sport now. People rely on them too much in modern racing. The DSs of the big teams wouldn't go for it.

It is funny when a breakaway works and the other riders don't realize it. Earlier this year one guy (Boonen maybe) was fist pumping and pointing to his shirt going across the line but he actually took third, not the win.

guys in a breakaway may be going for $$ and points.. and not really worried about finishing first..

how much is 800 euros anyway?

And once in a while... a breakaway does succeed. Remember Tyler Hamilton's solo breakaway and stage win?

DanO

Breakaways that are comprised of the "right" riders have their purpose:

For those in the break:

Publicity for their sponsors.
Publicity for themselves.
An outside chance it might work.


For those not in the break:

Controls the peloton because having a break out there usually inhibits others from attacking, thus allowing the peloton to move at a relatively steady pace a few minutes behind the break.
Not a threat to the GC contenders (as noted, if there is anyone who is a potential GC threat, the break will not last as it will be reeled in).
A minor threat to the sprinters' points, but they can usually time it to catch them before the finish anyway.
A minor threat to GC contenders in terms of finish time bonuses, but the GC contenders usually don't care as long as no other GC contenders get those bonuses.

And once in a while... a breakaway does succeed. Remember Tyler Hamilton's solo breakaway and stage win?

DanO
Yes, sometimes breaks do succeed, but usually only in later stages when the points don't matter as much.

In Tyler's case, it was not only a stage late in the Tour, but it was a mountain stage (he attacked on an early climb), and it didn't matter to anyone whether he won or not.

The strongest riders do not always wind up in the break. The other teams usually react very quickly if the make-up of the breakaway is too strong. E.g. if the 3rd place GC rider is in the break, the team supporting the 1st place GC will typically try to shut down the break.

When a breakaway does work, though, it can make a huge difference. For example, Oscar Pereiro was down by 29 minutes, and essentially out of GC contention, before he gained 30 minutes in a breakaway on Stage 13 of last year's TdF. So even if a breakaway rarely works, it is usually worth the attempt.


In that instance, Phonak waited too long to up the pace and since they were in Yellow none of the other teams were going to reel in the breakaway.

I've seen lots of breakaways succeed. Often, the peloton doesn't cooperate until it's too late and larger breakaways have a better chance. Also, if there are rolling hills it seems to help the breakaway.

If Lance had gotten Yellow early, he'd give it up and wait for the mountains. Breakaways at this time just had to fend off the sprinters, USPS/Discovery wasn't going to up the pace but Lance would be up near the front to avoid crashes so the other teams weren't too keen to be domestiques for him so it would be a nice tempo ride to the finish.

guys in a breakaway may be going for $$ and points.. and not really worried about finishing first..

how much is 800 euros anyway?

Not just the money but a gold star on the resumé.

Often, the peloton doesn't cooperate until it's too late and larger breakaways have a better chance. Also, if there are rolling hills it seems to help the breakaway.

Of course, the larger the breakaway then the less percentage of the time each member of the breakaway must spend riding at the front of the group. In a solo breakaway the one rider spends 100% of his time at the front. Just one other guy cuts that in half. By the time you have 10 guys, each spends an average of only 10% of the time at the front. The larger the group, the less the disadvantage the breakaway has relative to the peloton.

The main external factors that determine rider speed are air resistance and gravity. On the flats it's almost all air resistance. So rolling hills help the breakaway too, because the steeper the climbing and descent sections, and the more of them, the less air resistance plays a role in determining how fast the riders go. The bigger the factor gravity plays in determining rider speed, the less the disadvantage the breakaway has relative to the peloton.

In that instance, Phonak waited too long to up the pace and since they were in Yellow none of the other teams were going to reel in the breakaway.

I've seen lots of breakaways succeed. Often, the peloton doesn't cooperate until it's too late and larger breakaways have a better chance. Also, if there are rolling hills it seems to help the breakaway....
Yeah, I think it's usually riders rather than obstacles. Breakaway collaborates + peloton doesn't = 30 minutes on the clock. And in a short race, that is basically end of the story.... (http://www.velonews.com/race/dom/articles/12082.0.html)

Of course, the larger the breakaway then the less percentage of the time each member of the breakaway must spend riding at the front of the group. In a solo breakaway the one rider spends 100% of his time at the front. Just one other guy cuts that in half. By the time you have 10 guys, each spends an average of only 10% of the time at the front. The larger the group, the less the disadvantage the breakaway has relative to the peloton.



Actually there is one more important factor with the number of teams in the break. Get 10 teams represented and you have 10 teams that (most likely) will not help chase.

As others have pointed out the break does not have to stay out to the finish for the teams to win. Why does the current KOM leader have that jersey? Because he was in a break! For an "at large" team creating a break justifies their invitation, and helps their chances for one next year.

Oh and "Almost Never" is Bull. Almost every year a break full of non-contenders stays to let one of their members win a stage. Even if it was once every 5 years that makes the chances far greater than the ZERO they would have staying in the pack and waiting for the sprint. Now the odds get much better after the first set of mountians. Teans are tired and many do not have full numbers. Right now the sprinters teams can spare a couple of riders each to pull back a break and still have full numbers for their end of race train. Later that may not be true.

But look at stage 2. No chance? What if the rain got worse? Might teams have decided it was not worth the risk? Or perhaps they may have still chased, but had a couple of chrashes earlier. One never knows.

From watching todays stage (stage 1) on VS: "The breakaway almost never succeeds"

Why not?

I noticed that today they kept attacking each other and not working together very well... but had they worked together and conserved energy, why couldn't the break have held?

Recent research has shown that the riders in the peleton use 33% less power to maintain the same speed. Except of course for the lead rider. But the riders take turns out in front. So at the end of the race the guys in the peleton have a whole lot more reserves of energy to wind up the speeds. Plus the peleton as a whole can actually maintain a higher speed than a solo rider. As long as no one crashes.

Pereiro anyone?

Funny, in the cafeteria today I saw someone's Toronto Star abandoned, and looked to see if it had anything on the tour. The sports section turned out to be missing, but I got confused for a second because the business section had the NHL logo on the top (advertising a hockey business article within) so I grabbed that. Ironically, the first article was about a businessman called Rob McEwen and the second was by a writer called Tyler Hamilton.

Whoah!

(these links will work for 7 days) http://www.thestar.com/article/233698
http://www.thestar.com/article/233699

Pereiro anyone?

Chiappucci anyone?

It doesn't ALWAYS fail....I have seen it not fail many times...

"The breakaway almost never succeeds"

Why not?




Because theyr'e not real breakaways!

Since the demise of the true sprinters jersey many so called breaks are allowed off the front to neutralise the stage, gives the big hitters an easier day and TV can have a nice BIG bunch sprint at the end of the day.

Cynical sure, but how long has it been since we've seen two jerseys or even contenders going for intermediate points in the first week.

This morning, we've got another breakaway that's probably doomed; just two riders. The sprinters are looking to take the yellow jersey today and they will need some intermediate time bonuses to do it. I look for this breakaway(currently at 7:50) to be reeled in before the next time bonuses. Quickstep had the steamroller going yesterday but I'm looking for Oscar Freire or McEwen to take it today.

Reports of snow in the Alps today. Can't wait for stage 7.

OK, stage isn't over so this isn't a spoiler yet. :D 2 more riders joined the breakaway with 60km to go (of a 240km stage), and is holding steady. So it just might work today....

i blame race radio

stage 3 was weird... pace throughout most of the race was 20mph. With the 2 breakaway riders going 20mph too, keeping a minute advantage for an hour. I thought it was kind of lame no one else tried to break away.

The stage was the longest of the tour, but I'm still surprised they went that slow. Cancellara's win at the end was awesome though. I guess the sprinters are affected by riding 260k instead of 200?

i blame race radio
Care to explain the difference between an earpiece giving instructions to 9 riders and a domestique relaying instructions to 8 riders?

Thierry Marie anyone?


Now yer talkin'!!


Le Havre, Tour 1991. one of the best displays I've ever seen. What a legend.

Fairly handy at the odd prologue or GP de Nations as well. :)

Always fails?

Guess alwaysmeans only 6 times since 2000, and that only for stages BEFORE the first mountian stage! Just one more example of the poor commentary! Think how counter productive this kind of commentary is. What is says is that there is no point watching, nothing important is going to happen!

And after a couple of mountian stages the chances go way up for successful breaks. Peleton tireder. Teams having lost a couple of riders. Good cahnce a break of up to 20 riders can have no one withing 20 minutes, so the top GC teams don't care if the break wins by 15 minutes (likely don't care even if it wins by 25 minutes).

Now a hint. Look for a break to stay away the day before the first ITT. History shows trhis to happen and it makes sense. Everyone will want fresh legs for the TT and also the GC is going to get a big shake up from the TT so people are less concerend with someone in a break grabbing yellow for a day.

EDIT: The NFL would go broke if commentators harped on how slim the chances of comming back from 10 or more points behind in the 4th quarter. They are not good, but it happens every year.

Care to explain the difference between an earpiece giving instructions to 9 riders and a domestique relaying instructions to 8 riders?

how quickly information can be relayed. the DS can sit in the car and see the big picture (also faster and more accurately by listening to radio) and then send instructions down to the riders through the earpiece. ever played the telephone game? thats what could happen if its just word of mouth.

radio is clearly advantageous or the teams wouldn't use it. however, seeing Manolo Saiz yelling through a mega phone "venga! venga! venga!" at his riders during TT's had a certain appeal...

Care to explain the difference between an earpiece giving instructions to 9 riders and a domestique relaying instructions to 8 riders?
The other radio. The one in the car that's getting real time info on the exact position and current speed of the break and peleton. And the computer that calculates the necessary catch speed.

In the old days the team director had a paper map and some guy in a village saying "They came through about 7 minutes ago. Maybe eight. Riding pretty fast." OK, so based on that, what do you lean out the window and tell domestique #6 to tell the team?

TCS

how quickly information can be relayed. the DS can sit in the car and see the big picture (also faster and more accurately by listening to radio) and then send instructions down to the riders through the earpiece. ever played the telephone game? thats what could happen if its just word of mouth.

radio is clearly advantageous or the teams wouldn't use it. however, seeing Manolo Saiz yelling through a mega phone "venga! venga! venga!" at his riders during TT's had a certain appeal...

But even with a perfect domestic there is a pretty big time lag getting instructions forward. There are 21 teams in the Tour. That means on the average the rider would have to pass 10 cars just to get to the back of the Peleton, then fight up to whereever his teammates are before anything happened.

Just thought of something even more important. How is a domestic going to know that there is anything to talk about? You would wear your team out sending a guy back every 5 minutes. And it would be against the rules to keep a member back in the cars. (Violation of the drafting cars regulations).

DS sitting in their cars watch TV nowadays, and get precious infos from there too. Yesterday, and for the first time on French TV during the Tour, one could see the theoretic time at which the break away would be caught by the peloton, based on actual speeds and distances of break away group and peloton.

This means that now a Directeur sportif can inform his riders on how fast they would need to ride at every moment to catch a break away.

Thank God, organising the chase by the peloton demands that a or several teams take over responsibility for accelerating, and that doesn't happen always.

Before the Tour Christian Prudhomme said he wanted to introduce "no earpiece" stages in future Tours, in order to keep the adventurous side of things. Earpieces have killed the sense of initiative of the riders.

I found it funny, when during an Ardennes classic(can't remember which one) a rider in the front would just take off the earpiece and smash it to the ground...

Breakaways that are comprised of the "right" riders have their purpose:

For those in the break:

Publicity for their sponsors.
Publicity for themselves.
An outside chance it might work.


For those not in the break:

Controls the peloton because having a break out there usually inhibits others from attacking, thus allowing the peloton to move at a relatively steady pace a few minutes behind the break.
Not a threat to the GC contenders (as noted, if there is anyone who is a potential GC threat, the break will not last as it will be reeled in).
A minor threat to the sprinters' points, but they can usually time it to catch them before the finish anyway.
A minor threat to GC contenders in terms of finish time bonuses, but the GC contenders usually don't care as long as no other GC contenders get those bonuses.


For those not in the break:


Having a teammate in the break forces the other teams who want to protect their GC riders or wipe out the breakaway for their sprinters do all the work at the front catching the break. Having a rider in the break can get your team a free tow to the line, and if your rider in the break actually wins the stage or gains a huge chunk of time, so much the better.
Teams will sometimes send riders into a break specifically to grab sprint/KOM points so another team's rider in contention for the jersey won't get them.