Living Car Free - Lightning

Do you ride during a storm or wait it out?

I'm a chicken and probably overly cautious. The forecast calls for lightening beginning at 4 and lasting through 8. Not sure if it will be close enough to my vicinity to cause concerns. (Also, not sure how to tell how close it is, and when it's a threat.)

Should I wait around at work that long??

Rubber soled shoes?

You'll be fine, if that's the case.

Rubber on the road, rubber soled shoes... your chances of getting struck are so infitesmally low that they're not even worth mentioning - lower than if you were walking and didn't have rubber soled shoes, in fact.

I don't ride in thunder storms anymore after last year when a lighting strike hit a tree about 250' from me. I could feel a flash of intense heat up and down the right side of my body. Just from the heat of the lighting bolt. I find the nearest shelter and if I can't I just keep low. It's true that you have very little chance of being hit by lighting.

Generally, ride through it.
My route does take me over an overpass. I avoid it during t-storms cause then I'm the hiest point around. But otherwise, I'm surrounded by houses, trees, etc which will get hit before me.
Just watch out for cars. Those things will kill you.
Cheers

Rubber soled shoes?

You'll be fine, if that's the case.

Rubber on the road, rubber soled shoes.

For electricity in your house it would probably protect you, but lightning? I don't think so. Cars can protect you, but its not the rubber on the road, its the fact that a steel car body acts as a Faraday cage and the electricity goes around the outside of the car.

That would not be the worst way to check out....painlessly, and doing what you enjoy.

I worked at home today because of continuing lightning and thunder most of the day. But I've gotten done with what I had to do. Its silent now and feeling a little better. I'm going to check NOAA. Maybe it's time to go.

Man you guys know nothing about lightning, not even how to spell the word! Here's (http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning.htm) a nice little explanation.

First off, rubber tires and rubber shoes won't give you one bit of protection. Neither will having trees and tall buildings near you. (The lightning might strike the tree then "jump" over to you.) Also, being struck by lightning is not always "a painless way to go." Many survive lightning strikes, only to face severe burns or permanent injuries to the nervous system and brain. I work with a nurse who's daughter was struck by lightning several years ago. She's still all messed up, I guess, with permanent brain damage.

Personally, I'll ride through just about anything BUT lightning. The most conservative advice is to stay off your bike if you hear any thunder. I'm not quite that cautious. I count the seconds between the flash and the thunder. If the duration is getting smaller--say, less than 7 or 8 seconds--I head for cover.

Man you guys know nothing about lightning, not even how to spell the word!

My apologies for the spelling ... I must have been in my Old English mode. :rolleyes:

For electricity in your house it would probably protect you, but lightning? I don't think so. Cars can protect you, but its not the rubber on the road, its the fact that a steel car body acts as a Faraday cage and the electricity goes around the outside of the car.

My physics textbook said that the lightning goes through the metal of the car, and the reason the person inside doesn't get affected is because the person isn't touching the frame/body of the car and the frame/body of the car can conduct the amount of electricity in a strike and so the electricity doesn't have to resort to going through the poor conductors inside the car (the person and the air/plastic/etc around the person).

I guess that's nearly the same thing as calling the car a faraday cage.

My physics textbook said that the lightning goes through the metal of the car, and the reason the person inside doesn't get affected is because the person isn't touching the frame/body of the car and the frame/body of the car can conduct the amount of electricity in a strike and so the electricity doesn't have to resort to going through the poor conductors inside the car (the person and the air/plastic/etc around the person).

I guess that's nearly the same thing as calling the car a faraday cage.That's exactly what a car is (when lightning strikes)!

Must be why drivers are called "cagers" here. :D

That's exactly what a car is (when lightning strikes)!

Must be why drivers are called "cagers" here. :D

Two this guys 7 lightning strikes (http://www.thatsweird.net/history8.shtml) were while in his truck.

I am with Roody on this. Lightning can mess you up. So can a falling tree branch, a car that can't see you in the rain, or hailstones. My last 2 commutes home, I got caught in thunderstorms. Each time I was headed for clear skies, but was overtaken. The second time, lightning strikes nearby convinced me to stop and take cover under a garage overhang. Don't be a fool or a hero, leave yourself an out- but don't stay home, either.

I have seen first hand the damage lightning can cause, used to install lightning rod systems for a living about 20 years ago;) Amazing how people will wait until after the damage is done to try to protect themselves:o

If a storm is threatening in my immediate area I will stay put in a safe place. Lightning can travel miles out in front of the storm. I had a classmate killed when I was in high school. He saw the storm clouds building and went out to take the clothes off the clothes line, lightning struck the tree that the clothes line was attached to.

Here is the section of Roody's link that deals with Lightning Safety (http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning8.htm)

My current job is with a national roofing contractor, we do a lot of huge buildings as well as high rises so it puts at an increased risk. We use the SkyScan (http://www.skyscancanada.com/) detectors on our job sites any time the conditions are favorable for storm development.

Also FWIW if you see a bolt of lightning and start counting 1-1000, 2-1000...etc. The strike is about a mile away for every five seconds, you can tell if it is moving away or getting closer. Also if you pay attention you can tell the difference between cloud to ground and cloud to cloud strikes by the sound of the thunder. Cloud to ground will usually have a sharp clap at the beginning of the thunder, cloud to cloud is more of a sustained rumble.

Aaron:)

Two this guys 7 lightning strikes (http://www.thatsweird.net/history8.shtml) were while in his truck.

interesting... 7 strikes.

my folks met the family of an old dude they said had been hit at least 8 times. He liked to golf - regardless of weather.

Also FWIW if you see a bolt of lightning and start counting 1-1000, 2-1000...etc. The strike is about a mile away for every five seconds, you can tell if it is moving away or getting closer. Also if you pay attention you can tell the difference between cloud to ground and cloud to cloud strikes by the sound of the thunder. Cloud to ground will usually have a sharp clap at the beginning of the thunder, cloud to cloud is more of a sustained rumble.

This is great info, thanks!

I'm going to be the voice in oposition here. I say just ride through it. Sure 1000 people get hit by lightning every year in the US, but I'd bet at least that many trip on the stairs into their basement and come close to getting killed. Are you going to stop going into your basement? You have two choices, you can live your life in fear of all the horrible ways you might die, or you can get out there and LIVE.

The last deaths I heard about in Ohio from a lightning strike was a family that was sitting in their living room, the lightning started a fire in the crawl space under their house. The stuff can get you even in the "safe" places.

We had a TV antenna on our house for the first two years that we owned, it was tall enough that it made our house the tallest object for a two block square, two years, countless storms, not one lightning strike. I think your pretty safe on your bicycle.

In summary, I'm about as worried about dying from a lightning bolt as I am from a terrorist attack, in other words, not very worried, and I absolutely refuse to let this fear affect what I do.

bike2math,
I will err on the side of caution when it comes to lightning, you can do what you want. But there is nowhere I have to be that a 20-30 minute wait is going to cause undo harm. I can't find the link, but last year some guy riding a motorcycle near Denver was struck by a bolt of lightning while riding on the expressway during rush hour, dunno if they ever decided if the lighting killed him or the crash into the jersey barrier...BTW if basement stairs have hand rails and decent lighting they are much more safe:p

Aaron:)

I'm going to be the voice in oposition here. I say just ride through it. Sure 1000 people get hit by lightning every year in the US, but I'd bet at least that many trip on the stairs into their basement and come close to getting killed. Are you going to stop going into your basement? You have two choices, you can live your life in fear of all the horrible ways you might die, or you can get out there and LIVE.

The last deaths I heard about in Ohio from a lightning strike was a family that was sitting in their living room, the lightning started a fire in the crawl space under their house. The stuff can get you even in the "safe" places.

We had a TV antenna on our house for the first two years that we owned, it was tall enough that it made our house the tallest object for a two block square, two years, countless storms, not one lightning strike. I think your pretty safe on your bicycle.

In summary, I'm about as worried about dying from a lightning bolt as I am from a terrorist attack, in other words, not very worried, and I absolutely refuse to let this fear affect what I do.

Much of your argument is bogus. The risk of falling down the stairs in your basement has nothing to do with the risk of lightning strike. One reason why only 1000 people are struck by lightning each year is because the vast majority of us know to seek shelter when lightning is in the area.

Just because your house was not struck by lightning in a two year period, is also a bad argument. Since houses do get struck by lightning, what would you say had your house been one of the unlucky ones?

Riding a bike in a lightning storm generally puts you in open exposed areas. It's foolhardy to risk a lightning strike to demonstrate you are not afraid of lightning. That's silly talk.

Two people died last week in this province after their group was struck by lightning at a provincial park. The woman who died was pregnant :( I don't think many people around here are taking chances with lightning these days. I certainly don't.

Much of your argument is bogus. The risk of falling down the stairs in your basement has nothing to do with the risk of lightning strike. One reason why only 1000 people are struck by lightning each year is because the vast majority of us know to seek shelter when lightning is in the area.


Granted the stairs are a bad comparison, but I would say it is equally likely that the reason only 1000 people are hit is not the knowledge of the vast majority about lightning safety rather that the vast majority of americans are lazy fatasses who spend their entire lives in enclosed spaces "safe" from lightning.



Just because your house was not struck by lightning in a two year period, is also a bad argument. Since houses do get struck by lightning, what would you say had your house been one of the unlucky ones?


I'll give you a better comparison. Lets take the four block square I live on, about 200 houses. There are a handful of houses with some wind damage, two houses have been damaged by fire (faulty wiring both times), and another handful have damage from what I would classify as "general neglect". Not a one has been damaged by lightning. We have a large number of trees and telephone poles in the general area, how many have been hit? That's right, none! You'd think that with how incredibely dangerous your telling me lightning is, that trees would be getting slaughtered every year, and I should lose power at least a couple times a year from a utility pole getting clobbered.

Look the general principle is: Humans are extremely bad judges of what is dangerous. If it makes a bright flash and goes BOOM, I think we inflate the corresponding risk far beyond the real risk.

I'm at a greater risk, on my bicycle in a storm, of getting clobered by a dui'er than by lightning, and I ride anyway.

Look the general principle is: Humans are extremely bad judges of what is dangerous. If it makes a bright flash and goes BOOM, I think we inflate the corresponding risk far beyond the real risk.


don't forget how dangerous something becomes when it makes the evening news. All it takes is some graphic video and lightning just became more dangerous...

To put it in perspective....

Each year, 1000 die in lightning strikes. 700 to 800 cyclists are killed in car crashes. The odds of either happening to me in a given year are very small. But I take precautions to avoid getting hit by a car. Why not take precautions to avoid getting hit by lightning?

To put it in perspective....

Each year, 1000 die in lightning strikes. 700 to 800 cyclists are killed in car crashes. The odds of either happening to me in a given year are very small. But I take precautions to avoid getting hit by a car. Why not take precautions to avoid getting hit by lightning?

Wow, I find those stats surprising!

To put it in perspective....

Each year, 1000 die in lightning strikes. 700 to 800 cyclists are killed in car crashes. The odds of either happening to me in a given year are very small. But I take precautions to avoid getting hit by a car. Why not take precautions to avoid getting hit by lightning?

your perspective is flawed. Most individuals are at risk of lightning strike far more often than they are at risk of being hit by a car. Only 5-15 people die every year BASE jumping, is that somehow safer than bike riding?

ill ride through just about any weather condition there is BUT lightning.

In response to bike2math about lightning strikes in a given area...the numbers are skewed. Some areas are going to get struck more often by lightning than others, FL vs NH for example. I am not an engineer or geologist, but the most plausible theory I have heard for why lightning strikes more in one place than another has to do with underground water and other geologic formations. When I was doing the lightning system installs we did one house in a neighborhood on a cul de sac where one house had already been struck and severely damaged by the resulting fire. Two months later another house on the same cul de sac was struck, with minimal damage. We installed lightning rods on that one, the original one got struck again 6 months later and burned to the ground, in the same storm one of the ones that we had installed the system on took a hit but damage was minimal. This cul de sac is in a fairly low lying area, but there are tall trees around. There are around 300 homes in this subdivison, you would think that there would have been strikes in other parts of it. FWIW I have taken the precaution of installing lighting protection systems on all of my houses and barns. Cheap insurance IMHO, but then again I live in the Sandhills/Coastal Plains of NC which is a prime target for strikes and thunderstorms.

Aaron:)

All I'll say is that if lightning has enough power to jump an air-gap of a few miles, rubber soled shoes aren't much protection! :)

Granted the stairs are a bad comparison, but I would say it is equally likely that the reason only 1000 people are hit is not the knowledge of the vast majority about lightning safety rather that the vast majority of americans are lazy fatasses who spend their entire lives in enclosed spaces "safe" from lightning.



I'll give you a better comparison. Lets take the four block square I live on, about 200 houses. There are a handful of houses with some wind damage, two houses have been damaged by fire (faulty wiring both times), and another handful have damage from what I would classify as "general neglect". Not a one has been damaged by lightning. We have a large number of trees and telephone poles in the general area, how many have been hit? That's right, none! You'd think that with how incredibely dangerous your telling me lightning is, that trees would be getting slaughtered every year, and I should lose power at least a couple times a year from a utility pole getting clobbered.

Look the general principle is: Humans are extremely bad judges of what is dangerous. If it makes a bright flash and goes BOOM, I think we inflate the corresponding risk far beyond the real risk.

I'm at a greater risk, on my bicycle in a storm, of getting clobered by a dui'er than by lightning, and I ride anyway.

My experience has been that in neighborhoods where I have lived, several houses over the years have burned down from lightning strikes (not all in the same neighborhood). I had a large tree in the backyard of a house I was living in stuck by lightning.

My experience, like your's, proves nothing. Anecdotal evidence is not reliable. but I understand that when there is lightning in the area, it can, and does occasionally strike people. I also know that if I'm out standing around or riding a bike, there is nothing I can do to minimize my chances of being struck other than by seeking shelter. It's not like riding in simple rain, heat. or cold, or heavy traffic where proper technique and preparation protects you from the dangers. It doesn't matter what kind of bike you ride, or what clothing you wear. Although the likelihood of being struck is low, the impact, should it happen, is devastating.

I suggest that anyone planning to ignore lightning go to the National Weather Service website and read their lightning safety information. You'll learn good safety tips on what kinds of shelter are effective (hint: carports provide NO protection from lightning), and how to minimize your chances of being struck if you get caught out in the open with no shelter nearby.

I'll ride through it if I HAVE to, but avoid it if I can.

For instance, if I need to get home from work and there's a storn on the horizon, I'll ride right into it. But if I'm just wanting to go to the store, I'll wait for the storm to pass.

I'm not sure that one can (at least in Ohio) advocate extreme caution during a thunderstorm and advocate that the masses should live car free. The fact is that at least a handful of times a year there are continuous lines of thunderstorms for large stretches of time here, what is the car free person supposed to do? Skip work for the day?

I'm not sure that one can (at least in Ohio) advocate extreme caution during a thunderstorm and advocate that the masses should live car free. The fact is that at least a handful of times a year there are continuous lines of thunderstorms for large stretches of time here, what is the car free person supposed to do? Skip work for the day?

Why not car dependent commuters come up with excuses all the time that can't be used by car free; my car broke down, I ran out of gas, there was a major wreck/traffic jam/etc on the freeway...

Aaron:)

Why not car dependent commuters come up with excuses all the time that can't be used by car free; my car broke down, I ran out of gas, there was a major wreck/traffic jam/etc on the freeway...

Aaron:)
Right. Don't forget snow days when the car dependent skip work and the car free arrive on time and put in a full day.

Never ride when there is lightening. What is really scary is we have had two people die down here in the last couple of weeks from lightening when the storm was no where near them. They call it a bolt from the blue, what happens is that the lightening occurs miles from where the storm is. Not sure how you avoid that.

Good news down here in FL is that most of the schools, golf course etc have lightening warning systems. So you hear the horns go off before the storms get close.

stonecrd,
You avoid it by living and working near someone that has a lightning dectector;) I almost always check the forecast prior to going for a ride. If you go to wunderground.com and use the local radar setting and check show lightning strikes it will give you an idea of what is in the area and they you can make your decision. Florida is a hard one. IIRC there is only one other place in the world that has more lightning strikes per square mile than Florida.


Aaron:)

If you have ridden down here you will know that weather forecasts are not very good. i.e. the chance of rain almost everyday in the summer is around 30% but somewhere within 30 miles of me it is raining. I have seen storms where it is raining on one side of the street and not the other. Severe storms pop up in minutes, you can go riding with clear blue skies and then the next thing you know a thunderstorm is over your head. Its not like the midwest where a front moves through and you can see it coming for hours.

Also if I didn't go out riding right before, after or continue during a rain storm I would not get much riding done in the summer. The warning systems let me know whether I am just going to be wet or I should ride like a demon for home.

I'm not sure that one can (at least in Ohio) advocate extreme caution during a thunderstorm and advocate that the masses should live car free. The fact is that at least a handful of times a year there are continuous lines of thunderstorms for large stretches of time here, what is the car free person supposed to do? Skip work for the day?

Yes. A handful of times per year, assuming that there is continuous lightning in the area, it would be prudent to take the day off or arrange for a safe alternate transportation.

If you have ridden down here you will know that weather forecasts are not very good. i.e. the chance of rain almost everyday in the summer is around 30% but somewhere within 30 miles of me it is raining. I have seen storms where it is raining on one side of the street and not the other. Severe storms pop up in minutes, you can go riding with clear blue skies and then the next thing you know a thunderstorm is over your head. Its not like the midwest where a front moves through and you can see it coming for hours.

Also if I didn't go out riding right before, after or continue during a rain storm I would not get much riding done in the summer. The warning systems let me know whether I am just going to be wet or I should ride like a demon for home.

Spent close to a year working in Largo/Tampa area...during the late summer you could set your watch by the storms coming in across the bay...

Aaron:)

I'll ride through it if I HAVE to, but avoid it if I can.

For instance, if I need to get home from work and there's a storn on the horizon, I'll ride right into it. But if I'm just wanting to go to the store, I'll wait for the storm to pass.
Ditto

Yes. A handful of times per year, assuming that there is continuous lightning in the area, it would be prudent to take the day off or arrange for a safe alternate transportation.

Haha! Yeah, try that with any of the boses I've had. If I told my supervisor that I would be a few hours late because I was scared of the squall line coming through and needed to find a friend who wasn't working to drive me, his response would be something along the lines of: "Show up in the next 25 minutes or don't bother showing up again; we'll ship the stuff in your office to you."

I could use public transit (and would end up being an hour late, and having to walk outside in the thunderstorm I was trying to avoid for a half hour; not so sure that is a safer option). Besides, public transit!! I'd rather be hit by lightning sometimes, I had a guy pee behind me once!

Sure in the perfect world it would be no worse than calling in because of a snow day. But last time I checked this isn't a perfect world.

Those who minimize or ignore the dangers of lightning and choose to ride a bicycle in the vicinity of thunderstorms are great candidates for a Darwin Award.

Riding when there's lightning is perfectly safe, all you need is a friend that's into tall bikes to ride along beside you. :p

Spent close to a year working in Largo/Tampa area...during the late summer you could set your watch by the storms coming in across the bay...

Aaron:)
They were pretty regular on the east coast too, but were brief. As a boy delivering newspapers by bike I road in the rain but when the lightning got close I hid at a gas station or some other business along the route. I did the five second thing.

Riding when there's lightning is perfectly safe, all you need is a friend that's into tall bikes to ride along beside you. :p
I think you are joking, like the guy who said he did not need to outrun the lion, just anyone else being chased by the lion. Actually, if lightning struck another taller rider near to you there is strong danger it would jump to you as well.

Haha! Yeah, try that with any of the boses I've had. If I told my supervisor that I would be a few hours late because I was scared of the squall line coming through and needed to find a friend who wasn't working to drive me, his response would be something along the lines of: "Show up in the next 25 minutes or don't bother showing up again; we'll ship the stuff in your office to you."

I could use public transit (and would end up being an hour late, and having to walk outside in the thunderstorm I was trying to avoid for a half hour; not so sure that is a safer option). Besides, public transit!! I'd rather be hit by lightning sometimes, I had a guy pee behind me once!

Sure in the perfect world it would be no worse than calling in because of a snow day. But last time I checked this isn't a perfect world.
Agreed. But sometimes I've actually gone to work a little early (bike or bus) in order to beat a storm that was approaching. Carfree works best for those who plan ahead and adapt.

I think you are joking
I think you are right ;)

That would not be the worst way to check out....painlessly, and doing what you enjoy.

The ultimate optimist. :beer:

Do you ride during a storm or wait it out?

I'm a chicken and probably overly cautious. The forecast calls for lightening beginning at 4 and lasting through 8. Not sure if it will be close enough to my vicinity to cause concerns. (Also, not sure how to tell how close it is, and when it's a threat.)

Should I wait around at work that long??

Depends, if they are calling for just a regular thunderstorm, then get ahold of a computer, go to the weather service site, and check the radar:

In Canada go to The Weather office (http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca), select radar imagery off the left side, and then pick the nearest station to your home.

In the US go to NOAA (http://www.noaa.gov), on the left side, under Todays weather, type your city and state, then select radar from the forecast page.

In either case the radar image shows different colours, there is a scale on the map, a light blue is usually okay, and you can animate the map, to see which way it's going and how fast. What you don't want to see is yellows and reds, they mean that there is nasty stuff around, of course if the nasty stuff isn't heading your way, you may be okay to ride. If you hear thunder, it's too close for comfort, take the bus.

Severe thunderstorms on the other hand, if a watch or warning is issued, stay where you are, severe thunderstorms can spawn all kinds of stuff, including tornadoes and winds high enough to uproot trees and damage buildings.

Well now that I think about it, if it's a regular storm, I'm ok, but we get some desert storms around here and they can get spooky. I mean like strike right next to me 3 times in 5 mins.