Electric Bikes - What drive can be better?

Please state why it is so complicated?
A 5 lb 1500 watt mid drive motor and a 3 speed hub with full suspension.

The most obvious problem with the specs is no gear range, I like to pedal assist at 60~70 kph and I would have (as all my bikes do) a low enough low to get home with a dead battery pack (home is up some long 20~25% grades).

And 1500w is not an assist it's a motor bike, and illegal just about everywhere.

Oh, and as an you asked what could be better, if you want low current at high speed a recumbent would be better especially a faired one.

The most obvious problem with the specs is no gear range, I like to pedal assist at 60~70 kph and I would have (as all my bikes do) a low enough low to get home with a dead battery pack (home is up some long 20~25% grades).

And 1500w is not an assist it's a motor bike, and illegal just about everywhere.

Oh, and as an you asked what could be better, if you want low current at high speed a recumbent would be better especially a faired one. At 750 watts you would go half as fast up steep hills that pedaling would not help that much.If you want more range in gears add a derailer to the hub or front chainring for pedaling besides the 3 hub and motor gear ratios.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1501457501981349249&q=ecyclemaui&total=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

If you can output 300w for well over an hour and hold an extended sprint over 500w I would class that as a significant help even at 750w.
Also most of the world has a 200~250w limit so pedalling is much more significant.
A bottom bracket drive will allow ALL available gears to be used so that even a low power assist will work on steep hills.

The most obvious problem is this kit doesn't exist.

500W is plenty sufficient for an e-bike. Add the 150W from your own pedalling and you have 650W. That's more than what any of the tour de france riders can sustain.

If you go any faster, the motor and battery gets bigger and heavier and you're not talking about e-bikes anymore. If you can't make much of a difference through pedalling, then it's really a moped instead of an e-bike. You should go post in forums for electric mopeds instead of e-bikes.

500W is plenty sufficient for an e-bike. Add the 150W from your own pedalling and you have 650W. That's more than what any of the tour de france riders can sustain.

If you go any faster, the motor and battery gets bigger and heavier and you're not talking about e-bikes anymore. If you can't make much of a difference through pedalling, then it's really a moped instead of an e-bike. You should go post in forums for electric mopeds instead of e-bikes.

You obviously missed Geebee's post. Bents can reach high speeds with legal power levels, as can faired upright bikes.

On the flip side, heavy trailers can be a chore to tow up hills, and 500w is not 'plenty sufficient' for that.

500W is plenty sufficient for an e-bike. Add the 150W from your own pedalling and you have 650W. That's more than what any of the tour de france riders can sustain.

If you go any faster, the motor and battery gets bigger and heavier and you're not talking about e-bikes anymore. If you can't make much of a difference through pedalling, then it's really a moped instead of an e-bike. You should go post in forums for electric mopeds instead of e-bikes. How fast and how far on what grade of hills? A 5 lb motor and 14 lbs of batteries will do this trip whthout pedaling.If you pedal you will go a few miles farther.Sure you can gear down for 450 watts of power and add 159 watts of pedal power and go up these hills at 4 mph if that.But it is simpeler to just raise your power to what is required to do the job at a faster more efficient hill climbing speed.A 1500 motor at 72 volts can be regulated to 750 watts by using 36 volts. If you find the right motor the efficiency will be the same at 18 to 80 volts or 200 watts to 1500 watts.No there is not a kit but the only way to make yourself a efficient ebike for ALL riding conditions is to make it yourself.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6193354267582670871&q=ecyclemaui&total=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

I think that if you ride one of the lwb recumbents supported by these guys, their kit is AWESOME! All kinds of efficiency and the design accommodates out of shape riders up to guys like Lance. A bit pricey for sure, but it actually exists and is available. It also appears that these guys have moved up to the more powerful powerpack motors too.

http://www.ecospeed.com/

You obviously missed Geebee's post. Bents can reach high speeds with legal power levels, as can faired upright bikes.

On the flip side, heavy trailers can be a chore to tow up hills, and 500w is not 'plenty sufficient' for that.

I retract my "if you go any faster" comment. It was said in haste. It's not about the speed, of course, since you can coast a regular bike downhill at 50mph if you wanted to.

For me, it just comes down to whether a normal healthy person can make a significant difference when they pedal vs. not pedal an electric "bike". This is not a black and white issue as many people have different definition of an electric bike. For me, 500W-1000W is the gray area. Beyond that, the experience becomes much less than riding a bicycle and more like riding a moped.

A fast ebike always gives you the option of pedaling (depending on speed and gearing of course)

I took my ebike on the Vancouver critical mass ride, and used pedal power only for 95% of the 42km ride except for a few hundred watts of assist to keep pace up the hills. My day went something like:
Ebike to work, 33.5km
ditch work early to race downtown for critical mass, 31km in under 1/2hr
pedal 42km all over the city with 2000 other riders
head off to do more work at a clients house, ebike 23km
ebike back to my shop, and then home, 44km

Riding my road bike was totally out of the question due to time, so the only other options were to drive to work with my road bike or one of my pedal only mountain bikes in the back, or leave a pedal bike downtown near the art gallery, ebike to work and then ebike downtown and switch bikes. Leaving my $$ ebike locked up for 3 hours downtown on a friday night didn't sound like a very good idea though.

Being able to do everything on one bike is fantastic, except the other bikes are getting a bit jealous.

Why is it that ebikers are always trying to explain themselves? A bike that is designed to be ridden on human power, gets a motor on it, then they get to go a bit faster. Nice and quiet, all the benefits of riding a bike. They ride more because it is enjoyable. What is there to defend?

Why is it that ebikers are always trying to explain themselves? A bike that is designed to be ridden on human power, gets a motor on it, then they get to go a bit faster. Nice and quiet, all the benefits of riding a bike. They ride more because it is enjoyable. What is there to defend?
All the overweight, unefficient, underpowered ebikes on the market today.

Yes, you have mentioned that before.

All the overweight, unefficient, underpowered ebikes on the market today.

If you feel that there is such a large void in the market place, you should take advantage of it and sell lightweight, efficient, high powered ebikes.

If you feel that there is such a large void in the market place, you should take advantage of it and sell lightweight, efficient, high powered ebikes. The void is people that are willing to spend $1000. on a ebike.If there was a market someone would be building them. There are simular attempts so let's see how popular they get ?
http://ecospeed.net/products.html
Here is a light weight attempt with a hub motor but it only has about a 4 mile range if you don't pedal.
http://www.campsolution.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=91

In my neck of the woods, mopeds (motorized bicycles) are limited speed motorcycles that are restricted to 1.5Kw power out through a single gear to reach no more then 50km/h given 1.6km to accelerate. So that makes what you're proposing just barely legal as a moped, and it settles the multi gear argument. I know the law is similar in your parts, gears are the very reason why you can't register your motorcycle.

I don't know of anywhere in the world where something with a 1.5Kw motor would qualify as an electric bicycle. Over here they ask for 500w or less of motor, the upside being that with no power cap you can push say 2Kw out of that 500w motor for a few minutes or so... Nice for short steep hills. But, with the speed limit for the power assist being 32km/h, quite high next to what they have in the rest of the world, having more then one gear with this kind of power is just counter-productive. Getting up to speed with full throttle acceleration will happen very fast, if you waste time shifting you'll accelerate slower.


It's also already repeatedly been pointed out to you, and on several forums, how simple hub motor motorcycles own yours as for both hill climb and flat land efficiency.

EG: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1177&start=0


Having commuted on bikes ranging from full rigid steel clunkers to full suspension, what betters FS to get somewhere using roads is a full rigid bike, there's no contest. Full suspension means around a quarter more time used to get somewhere next to a rigid bike, and while it's more comfortable for short hops, it usually ends up being harder on your rear because you spend more time with your weight resting on it. Overall FS just sucks for riding on roads, the only real advantage to them is they allow going faster down S curved hills with bad pavement, but for pretty much everything else they're slower. These things are for off road use.

So to answer the question, what drive can be better then Randy's?
A hub motor on a rigid bike that isn't wall-mart grade, that's what.

The reason it seems so complicated to you is that you're trying to pass your motorcycle as an ebike.

In my neck of the woods, mopeds (motorized bicycles) are limited speed motorcycles that are restricted to 1.5Kw power out through a single gear to reach no more then 50km/h given 1.6km to accelerate. So that makes what you're proposing just barely legal as a moped, and it settles the multi gear argument. I know the law is similar in your parts, gears are the very reason why you can't register your motorcycle.

I don't know of anywhere in the world where something with a 1.5Kw motor would qualify as an electric bicycle. Over here they ask for 500w or less of motor, the upside being that with no power cap you can push say 2Kw out of that 500w motor for a few minutes or so... Nice for short steep hills. But, with the speed limit for the power assist being 32km/h, quite high next to what they have in the rest of the world, having more then one gear with this kind of power is just counter-productive. Getting up to speed with full throttle acceleration will happen very fast, if you waste time shifting you'll accelerate slower.


It's also already repeatedly been pointed out to you, and on several forums, how simple hub motor motorcycles own yours as for both hill climb and flat land efficiency.

EG: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1177&start=0


Having commuted on bikes ranging from full rigid steel clunkers to full suspension, what betters FS to get somewhere using roads is a full rigid bike, there's no contest. Full suspension means around a quarter more time used to get somewhere next to a rigid bike, and while it's more comfortable for short hops, it usually ends up being harder on your rear because you spend more time with your weight resting on it. Overall FS just sucks for riding on roads, the only real advantage to them is they allow going faster down S curved hills with bad pavement, but for pretty much everything else they're slower. These things are for off road use.

So to answer the question, what drive can be better then Randy's?
A hub motor on a rigid bike that isn't wall-mart grade, that's what.

The reason it seems so complicated to you is that you're trying to pass your motorcycle as an ebike. Sure get a hub motor and pay twice as much for lithium batteries to go as far as something twice as efficient.FYI the ebike law in Hawaii was 1500 watts at the posted speed limit.

The void is people that are willing to spend $1000. on a ebike.If there was a market someone would be building them. There are simular attempts so let's see how popular they get ?
http://ecospeed.net/products.html
Here is a light weight attempt with a hub motor but it only has about a 4 mile range if you don't pedal.
http://www.campsolution.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=91

Eco Speed looks like they only do mid drives for bents.

The Mongoose bike looks like it could use a battery upgrade to fully utilize the 450W motor.

Eco Speed looks like they only do mid drives for bents.

The Mongoose bike looks like it could use a battery upgrade to fully utilize the 450W motor.

Here is a light weight attempt with a hub motor but it only has about a 4 mile range if you don't pedal.
http://www.campsolution.com/index.as...PROD&ProdID=91

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That Mongoose battery has a 6 amp max limit! Lol and good luck with front suspension and front hub motor combo. This is one time the lycras would be right, ditch the motor and mini battery and just buy the bike unassisted and save a few hundred bucks.

I mentioned the ecospeed kit first. Did Randy hold his hand vertical while I held mine horizontal or something??????


Eco Speed looks like they only do mid drives for bents.

True. Their middrive is much easier to adapt to a bent. I have an upright and a faired lwb recumbent, and both use the same power system. The recumbent wins hands down for making much more efficient use out of the same power plant. The Cyclone kit is similar, and is intended to be used on upright mtb's.



The Mongoose bike looks like it could use a battery upgrade to fully utilize the 450W motor.

Actually, the Unite motor on the Mongoose is only a 250W. Currie takes a liberty here because the 250W Unite motor has an added gear reduction in addition to the actual drive gear reduction.

I mentioned the ecospeed kit first. Did Randy hold his hand vertical while I held mine horizontal or something??????



True. Their middrive is much easier to adapt to a bent. I have an upright and a faired lwb recumbent, and both use the same power system. The recumbent wins hands down for making much more efficient use out of the same power plant. The Cyclone kit is similar, and is intended to be used on upright mtb's.




Actually, the Unite motor on the Mongoose is only a 250W. Currie takes a liberty here because the 250W Unite motor has an added gear reduction in addition to the actual drive gear reduction. The problem IS that no one has a 5 lb or less drive motors that has the required torque without gear reductions to do mid drives directly to the hub properly and have complete freewheeling for both motor and pedal drives at the hub.

The problem IS that no one has a 5 lb or less drive motors that has the required torque without gear reductions to do mid drives directly to the hub properly and have complete freewheeling for both motor and pedal drives at the hub.

The ecospeed mid drive allows the motor to freewheel when pedaling and allows the pedals to freewheel when motoring or anything inbetween. In addition, the ecospeed mid drive allows the motor to run through all 27 bicycle gears. The lower gears are really useful for starting from a stand still on a steep hill. The highest gears are useful for holding around 30mph or so very efficiently on rolling hills. The losses through a secondary gear reduction are miniscule at best. The best part is that the ecospeed mid drive is actually AVAILABLE.

. The losses through a secondary gear reduction are miniscule at best. The best part is that the ecospeed mid drive is actually AVAILABLE. With that high rpm motor the gear reduction has to be somrthing like a 20 to 1 ratio to move the bicycle chain at a pedaling cadence.A cheap gearbox of that sort with that much reduction is only about 85% efficient.When the motor is on the pedals also turn don't they?

The ecospeed mid drive allows the motor to freewheel when pedaling and allows the pedals to freewheel when motoring or anything inbetween. In addition, the ecospeed mid drive allows the motor to run through all 27 bicycle gears. The lower gears are really useful for starting from a stand still on a steep hill. The highest gears are useful for holding around 30mph or so very efficiently on rolling hills. The losses through a secondary gear reduction are miniscule at best. The best part is that the ecospeed mid drive is actually AVAILABLE.

Yes, availability is rather important. The best product in the world is of no use to the masses if it's not available for sale.

With that high rpm motor the gear reduction has to be somrthing like a 20 to 1 ratio to move the bicycle chain at a pedaling cadence.A cheap gearbox of that sort with that much reduction is only about 85% efficient.When the motor is on the pedals also turn don't they?

No, the pedals don't turn when the motor is running. See the FAQ section below.

http://www.ecospeed.com/faq.html

No, the pedals don't turn when the motor is running. See the FAQ section below.

http://www.ecospeed.com/faq.html Thanks.Mid drive Systems above 750 watts could give a better efficiency with less parts,weigh less and cost less.Only if you found the right size motor with the right design.They are out there!

No, the pedals don't turn when the motor is running. See the FAQ section below.

http://www.ecospeed.com/faq.html

On chain powered systems like these, don't you need to be more careful about shifting since you don't want to shift gears when the motor is applying 500w of pedal power?

Nope, no doubt at some point in the power range it would be required but I had a bike with cheapo shifters etc. and had no trouble using the shifter even when putting around a kw through the shifter and not normally letting off to shift.

Ditto that.

I have no doubt in my mind that applying power assist through the standard bicycle drivetrain is by far the most efficient approach there is. I get a maximum of 100 miles of range in rather hilly terrain with a typical average speed of 17 to 18mph using my mid drive with a powerpack motor with gear reduction powered at 36V with a 936Wh nimh battery pack.

Ditto that.

I have no doubt in my mind that applying power assist through the standard bicycle drivetrain is by far the most efficient approach there is. I get a maximum of 100 miles of range in rather hilly terrain with a typical average speed of 17 to 18mph using my mid drive with a powerpack motor with gear reduction powered at 36V with a 936Wh nimh battery pack.

I agree in that power assist through the BB is the best design. I wish there was a bicycle frame/motor combo that would enclose the entire motor in the BB shell. This could reduce the weight by elimintating the external motor brackets and integrating the BB with the motor. I'd imagine it would also be quieter since the motor is enclosed in the BB. And best of all, you'd have a clean drive train. No extra external gear or chain.

Ditto that.

I have no doubt in my mind that applying power assist through the standard bicycle drivetrain is by far the most efficient approach there is. I get a maximum of 100 miles of range in rather hilly terrain with a typical average speed of 17 to 18mph using my mid drive with a powerpack motor with gear reduction powered at 36V with a 936Wh nimh battery pack. There still is a rather large efficiency loss by using a gear reduction motor with a 20 to 1 ratio.to spin a bicycle chain through a derailer on a twisted driveline.

http://www.greenspeed.us/optibike_electric_bike.htm

Aside from the high price tag, the Optibike is probably one of the best drivetrain layouts around for a power assisted bicycle. No external motors hanging in the dirt, no second chain or fragile gear reduction hubs. The batteries integrated into the frame is nice, but not really specific to the drivetrain. An Optibike style frame with a rear Puma geared hub motor would look just as good in my opinion.

The only thing I'd do differently is have a 'sport' model with a higher powered motor and all lithium batteries. A 50 state legal '750W' motor would make sense, with peak power around 1000W.

Yes, Optibike is the only one I know of out there that has an integrated BB power assisted drive. However, it's looks like a cross between a motor bike and a bicycle. I just want something that looks more like an ordinary bicycle. But no doubt, the Optibike is really fast and efficient.

http://www.greenspeed.us/optibike_electric_bike.htm

Aside from the high price tag, the Optibike is probably one of the best drivetrain layouts around for a power assisted bicycle. No external motors hanging in the dirt, no second chain or fragile gear reduction hubs. The batteries integrated into the frame is nice, but not really specific to the drivetrain. An Optibike style frame with a rear Puma geared hub motor would look just as good in my opinion.

The only thing I'd do differently is have a 'sport' model with a higher powered motor and all lithium batteries. A 50 state legal '750W' motor would make sense, with peak power around 1000W. I can't imagine gearing down a motor past the ratio needed to drive the wheel directly with a single efficient chain reduction.With a 750 watt motor that is designed for TORQUE and a 2400 rpm freespin , it would take about 6 seconds to reach 20 mph.Driving a twisted bicycle chain through a derailer with any kind of torque you will be sure to skip the chain on the derailer cassette cogs.A 750 watt motor is best used with its own efficient chain drive and composite sprockets.It dont mater what side of the wheel the single speed 750 watt motor drive is on.In this fassion no matter how fast your MOTOR gets to 20 mph you can pedal and fumble through the derailer gears all you like and NOT hurt the ebike performance while getting up to speed.IF YOU HAVE 750 WATTS OF POWER THAT IS EFFICIENT from 1 TO 20 mph range on any hill YOU DO NOT NEED MULTIPUL MOTOR SPEEDS.
This 2000 ft elevation climb was done on 4.5 ah with a single ratio speed.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1920300182082053937 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5496865780878321081
This is what can be done with a hub motor and a freshly charged battery for a minute an a half.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-804894310992755993&q=ecyclemaui&total=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6
If the hub motor drove the wheel hub gears directly it would not loose as much power gearing down more to match pedal cadence.Instead ... A larger sprocket on the rear hub to the motor chain would make more efficency sense.Even so if the right in the wheel hub motor was selcted that could drive a wheel 20 mph with max efficency it would perform nearly the same as the chain mounted hub motor..The only problem is that the large hub motor will weigh 3 to 4 times more than a properly designed motor to fit better and provide high torque.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzDDXHTkUm4

IMO its LOUD and NOT efficient but it climbs hills better than a regular hub motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM7bq9lvqps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlkUenpW1S0

Yes, Optibike is the only one I know of out there that has an integrated BB power assisted drive. However, it's looks like a cross between a motor bike and a bicycle. I just want something that looks more like an ordinary bicycle. But no doubt, the Optibike is really fast and efficient.
Only If you pedal it hard! Don't be fooled by the flashy looks and web page hype.

If you go to the Greenspeed site and look at the latest news letter, you will find a very interesting b/b drive system that they are testing with an eye to selling, pedal assist only similar to a Bionx but using the entire gear train, but it mounts to the b/b with no other attachment from what I can Gather.
I am hanging out to see the full specs. and price.

If you go to the Greenspeed site and look at the latest news letter, you will find a very interesting b/b drive system that they are testing with an eye to selling, pedal assist only similar to a Bionx but using the entire gear train, but it mounts to the b/b with no other attachment from what I can Gather.
I am hanging out to see the full specs. and price.

Got a link? I can't find the newsletter.

Yes, Optibike is the only one I know of out there that has an integrated BB power assisted drive. However, it's looks like a cross between a motor bike and a bicycle. I just want something that looks more like an ordinary bicycle. But no doubt, the Optibike is really fast and efficient.

Panasonic makes a mid drive line of bikes, and the Giant Lite/Twist used the Panasonic motor and BB pedal assembly.
The Panasonic motor assembly (http://www.panabyc.co.jp/en/product_du.htm)
Panasonic Ebikes (http://www.panabyc.co.jp/en/product_eb.htm)
Giant Lite (http://www.nycewheels.com/giant-lite-electric-assisted-bike.html)

newsletter link
http://www.greenspeed.com.au/newsletter10.htm

direct link to flyer shown
http://www.greenspeed.com.au/sunstar.jpg

I can't imagine gearing down a motor past the ratio needed to drive the wheel directly with a single efficient chain reduction.With a 750 watt motor that is designed for TORQUE and a 2400 rpm freespin , it would take about 6 seconds to reach 20 mph.Driving a twisted bicycle chain through a derailer with any kind of torque you will be sure to skip the chain on the derailer cassette cogs.A 750 watt motor is best used with its own efficient chain drive and composite sprockets.It dont mater what side of the wheel the single speed 750 watt motor drive is on.In this fassion no matter how fast your MOTOR gets to 20 mph you can pedal and fumble through the derailer gears all you like and NOT hurt the ebike performance while getting up to speed."IF YOU HAVE 750 WATTS OF POWER THAT IS EFFICIENT from 1 TO 20 mph range on any hill YOU DO NOT NEED MULTIPUL MOTOR SPEEDS.
This 2000 ft elevation climb was done on 4.5 ah with a single ratio speed.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1920300182082053937 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5496865780878321081
This is what can be done with a hub motor and a freshly charged battery for a minute an a half.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-804894310992755993&q=ecyclemaui&total=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6
If the hub motor drove the wheel hub gears directly it would not loose as much power gearing down more to match pedal cadence.Instead ... A larger sprocket on the rear hub to the motor chain would make more efficency sense.Even so if the right in the wheel hub motor was selcted that could drive a wheel 20 mph with max efficency it would perform nearly the same as the chain mounted hub motor..The only problem is that the large hub motor will weigh 3 to 4 times more than a properly designed motor to fit better and provide high torque.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzDDXHTkUm4

IMO its LOUD and NOT efficient but it climbs hills better than a regular hub motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM7bq9lvqps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlkUenpW1S0

So you don't bother reading others replies? 750w will not cause any kind of derailleur issue.
Accepting a small loss in efficiency to gear down enough for a b/b drive will allow you to recoupe the loss in a major way in allowing a higher top speed and a more efficient climbing rpm for the motor.
You worry about efficiency but then state "IF YOU HAVE 750 WATTS OF POWER THAT IS EFFICIENT from 1 TO 20 mph range on any hill " no motor I know of is truly efficient across that kind of rpm range.

Only If you pedal it hard! Don't be fooled by the flashy looks and web page hype.

The aerodynamics of the bike alone is more than enough to make up for any lack of efficiency from placing the motor in an awkward location.

Yes, availability is rather important. The best product in the world is of no use to the masses if it's not available for sale. Without vision ebikes will pearish.

Without vision ebikes will pearish.

I'm not much for pears... I like hourglasses.

The aerodynamics of the bike alone is more than enough to make up for any lack of efficiency from placing the motor in an awkward location.

My bike uses 20% more power @ 30mph without the windscreen, which is a lot more than the difference in efficiency between any of the popular drivetrains. The Optibike is certainly one of the most aerodynamic upright ebikes (without fairings of course), and it would be interesting to see some Wh/km numbers from it. I'm glad someone else sees the big picture.

Randy: How many Wh/km are you using at 30mph, no pedaling?

My bike uses 20% more power @ 30mph without the windscreen, which is a lot more than the difference in efficiency between any of the popular drivetrains. The Optibike is certainly one of the most aerodynamic upright ebikes (without fairings of course), and it would be interesting to see some Wh/km numbers from it. I'm glad someone else sees the big picture.

Randy: How many Wh/km are you using at 30mph, no pedaling? I havn;t done any round trips lately that have averaged 30 mph without pedaling lately.But I can tell you that ducking the wind at that speed gives you more range than pedaling hard.

Why not do both?

Why not do both?It's not pratical or safe when pedaling around turns at that speed unless you have a lawn chair bike laying flat with the pedals up in the air.

Why not do both?

Narrow minds only look at one aspect of the bike...

Of course you have to wonder about someone who claims his upright FS mountain bike goes 47mph with only 1600W input power. With about 1400W to the rear wheel, the aero comes out better than a triathlon bike. Truly impressive for an $80 e-huffy.

Narrow minds only look at one aspect of the bike...

Of course you have to wonder about someone who claims his upright FS mountain bike goes 47mph with only 1600W input power. With about 1400W to the rear wheel, the aero comes out better than a triathlon bike. Truly impressive for an $80 e-huffy. Yes ducking helps as good as a fairing but system efficiency is the main thing for going up hills with the max efficiency of the motor in which this is too.This Lycra Racer had no problem doing a hair under 45 mph on how many watts?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1363294199598759645&q=ecyclemaui&total=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5