diode
07-12-07, 04:33 PM
Looks like Kona is making an longtail bike like the Surly Big Dummy for 08.
http://www.mtbs.cz/obrazek/kona2008g099.jpg
http://www.mtbs.cz/obrazek/kona2008g099.jpg
View Full Version : Kona makes an Xtracycle?
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Raiyn
07-12-07, 05:08 PM
Gotta love the swing towards utility bicycling.
Blue Order
07-12-07, 05:15 PM
I don't get it. What's the difference between a bike like this, and one that is converted with a kit?
notfred
07-12-07, 05:18 PM
I don't get it. What's the difference between a bike like this, and one that is converted with a kit?
You don't have to convert this one.
The question is basically the same as "Why would you buy complete bike when you can assemble one yourself from parts?"
You don't have to convert this one.
The question is basically the same as "Why would you buy complete bike when you can assemble one yourself from parts?"
AllenG
07-12-07, 05:25 PM
That's beautiful. God I love work bikes.
It really needs horizontal dropouts, that thing screams for an internal hub.
{edit}
& a double legged kickstand, or one of those rear wheel stands like on Dutch bikes. Much better for dealing with heavy loads.
It really needs horizontal dropouts, that thing screams for an internal hub.
{edit}
& a double legged kickstand, or one of those rear wheel stands like on Dutch bikes. Much better for dealing with heavy loads.
Raiyn
07-12-07, 06:01 PM
I don't get it. What's the difference between a bike like this, and one that is converted with a kit?
You don't have to buy a bike and a kit separately
No assembly required
Theoretically stronger than a bolt together kit
Most people who buy the kits NEVER TAKE THEM BACK APART
Purpose built so there's no "make it work" headaches
You don't have to buy a bike and a kit separately
No assembly required
Theoretically stronger than a bolt together kit
Most people who buy the kits NEVER TAKE THEM BACK APART
Purpose built so there's no "make it work" headaches
fuerein
07-12-07, 06:02 PM
I don't get it. What's the difference between a bike like this, and one that is converted with a kit?
The kit converts a bike that was never designed to act as a long-tail to a long-tail, which can cause trouble for some people/bikes. A bike designed as a long tail will never have trouble acting as a long-tail because it is exactly what it was designed for.
The kit converts a bike that was never designed to act as a long-tail to a long-tail, which can cause trouble for some people/bikes. A bike designed as a long tail will never have trouble acting as a long-tail because it is exactly what it was designed for.
cccorlew
07-12-07, 06:13 PM
Nice. How much?
Schwinnrider
07-12-07, 06:23 PM
The beauty of the Xtracycle system is the cool parts you attach to the Free Radical. The Surly Big Dummy is Xtracycle compatible--Freeloaders, Snapdeck, and the whole lot. Is the Kona?
fuerein
07-12-07, 06:42 PM
The beauty of the Xtracycle system is the cool parts you attach to the Free Radical. The Surly Big Dummy is Xtracycle compatible--Freeloaders, Snapdeck, and the whole lot. Is the Kona?
I agree. Those tiny panniers look a bit silly on that long-tail. Now if Kona made some Xtracycle-style accessories that took full advantage of the length of that tail, it'd be better than those ridiculously small panniers they show in that image.
I agree. Those tiny panniers look a bit silly on that long-tail. Now if Kona made some Xtracycle-style accessories that took full advantage of the length of that tail, it'd be better than those ridiculously small panniers they show in that image.
Bikepacker67
07-12-07, 06:49 PM
That's beautiful. God I love work bikes.
Ya me too...
There's something elegant about utilitarianism put into practice.
Ya me too...
There's something elegant about utilitarianism put into practice.
AllenG
07-12-07, 07:04 PM
^^^^
That's probably why I think the DC3 (http://www.centercomp.com/dc3/) is the best looking plane ever built.
That's probably why I think the DC3 (http://www.centercomp.com/dc3/) is the best looking plane ever built.
JeffS
07-12-07, 07:33 PM
The beauty of the Xtracycle system is the cool parts you attach to the Free Radical. The Surly Big Dummy is Xtracycle compatible--Freeloaders, Snapdeck, and the whole lot. Is the Kona?
No, it's clearly not.
I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I think having the upper rails integrated into the frame is a huge plus. Unfortunately, that means passing on the xtracycle accessories. They could easily be recreated by someone to fit this frame, but until they are, having this long bike for those puny paniers is pointless.
If I were a do-it-yourself'er, I'd buy this over the Big Dummy. I'm not though, so I would have to pass until I saw aftermarket accessories to complete this bike.
BTW, where did the picture go? I saw it earlier, but it's not showing up now.
No, it's clearly not.
I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I think having the upper rails integrated into the frame is a huge plus. Unfortunately, that means passing on the xtracycle accessories. They could easily be recreated by someone to fit this frame, but until they are, having this long bike for those puny paniers is pointless.
If I were a do-it-yourself'er, I'd buy this over the Big Dummy. I'm not though, so I would have to pass until I saw aftermarket accessories to complete this bike.
BTW, where did the picture go? I saw it earlier, but it's not showing up now.
Old Dirt Hill
07-12-07, 09:21 PM
Someone please show them how to adjust a front fender. ;)
diode
07-12-07, 09:28 PM
I found it on a czech mountain biking website, unfortunately I don't read czech, so I can only tell you it costs 19,990 korunys. Which according to Google is about 999 dollars. Not a bad deal if someone makes some Xtracycle style addons. Also, the website said something about a Smoke 2-9 commuter, which could be pretty cool too.
Oh, here is the site:
http://www.mtbs.cz/Biketech/Technews/kona2008news.html
Oh, here is the site:
http://www.mtbs.cz/Biketech/Technews/kona2008news.html
Lot's Knife
07-12-07, 10:16 PM
That's beautiful. God I love work bikes.
It really needs horizontal dropouts, that thing screams for an internal hub.
{edit}
& a double legged kickstand, or one of those rear wheel stands like on Dutch bikes. Much better for dealing with heavy loads.
+1 That spindly kickstand is not going to get 'er dun.
Give it an internal hub, a rear fender and a dynamo light system, and I'm there.
It really needs horizontal dropouts, that thing screams for an internal hub.
{edit}
& a double legged kickstand, or one of those rear wheel stands like on Dutch bikes. Much better for dealing with heavy loads.
+1 That spindly kickstand is not going to get 'er dun.
Give it an internal hub, a rear fender and a dynamo light system, and I'm there.
donnamb
07-12-07, 11:11 PM
+1 That spindly kickstand is not going to get 'er dun.
Give it an internal hub, a rear fender and a dynamo light system, and I'm there.
:beer: Really though, it should be Xtracycle compatible.
Give it an internal hub, a rear fender and a dynamo light system, and I'm there.
:beer: Really though, it should be Xtracycle compatible.
legot73
07-13-07, 06:58 AM
Another advantage the Big Dummy and this Kona have over an Xtracycle is that you can probably get your hands on one sooner than an Xtracycle.
I ordered one in May, and it won't even ship until August (so far).
I ordered one in May, and it won't even ship until August (so far).
Sammyboy
07-13-07, 07:15 AM
In terms of being built right, that's the best longtail I've seen so far. If they make the accessories too, I'm there.
knucklesandwich
07-13-07, 07:22 AM
I'm moving from a residential/suburban neighborhood to a more urban/dense one in a couple months, and we're planning to leave the cars at home much more often. (Right now, I'm good at commuting 4-5 days a week by bike, and running some errands, but still do our food shopping, etc via car.
A bike like this is creeping up my (n + 1) list...
A bike like this is creeping up my (n + 1) list...
whatsmyname
07-13-07, 08:18 AM
having this long bike for those puny paniers is pointless.
Do you think you'd be able just to put two panniers side by side, though? I'd prefer that over the open bucket Extracycle ones, I think.
Do you think you'd be able just to put two panniers side by side, though? I'd prefer that over the open bucket Extracycle ones, I think.
fender1
07-13-07, 08:29 AM
I am missing it on these bikes. What do they offer that a trailer doesn't? These bikes have one specific use, where as a touring bike and a trailer have many combined uses.
bhtooefr
07-13-07, 08:34 AM
I am missing it on these bikes. What do they offer that a trailer doesn't? These bikes have one specific use, where as a touring bike and a trailer have many combined uses.
Better handling and lower rolling resistance than a touring bike with hitched trailer, and also, you can do this if it doesn't have enough cargo capacity:
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7149/livinggreenexpoload5507mo2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Better handling and lower rolling resistance than a touring bike with hitched trailer, and also, you can do this if it doesn't have enough cargo capacity:
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7149/livinggreenexpoload5507mo2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
fender1
07-13-07, 08:58 AM
meh...seems to me to be more marketing than function. I would wonder without the advent of a stokemonkey or somehting similar, how much weight someone could realistically carry over anyhting other than very flat terrain or short distances? Speaking from a day to day life praciticality standpoint.
Sammyboy
07-13-07, 09:46 AM
Lots of people are using these to haul lots of stuff, specially over relatively short distances - <10 miles. They do the sort of things cars can do, but without burning oil. Go to the Car Free Forum - they will change your mind.
fender1
07-13-07, 09:51 AM
Thanks sammy. I'll take a look.
BAH
07-13-07, 10:43 AM
Cool that other companies are picking up on this idea, but man that is one ugly sucker :eek:
Electra needs to come out with a longbike :D
And I agree with you donna- all new longbikes need to be xtracycle compatible!
Electra needs to come out with a longbike :D
And I agree with you donna- all new longbikes need to be xtracycle compatible!
whatsmyname
07-13-07, 11:30 AM
seems to me to be more marketing than function.
Maybe - Kona's well known for making niche interest unmarketable bikes in addition to their mainstream range. it's what makes them so cool...
Maybe - Kona's well known for making niche interest unmarketable bikes in addition to their mainstream range. it's what makes them so cool...
spambait11
07-13-07, 02:36 PM
They should make an integrated front rack as well potentially to help counter balance a heavy load in back. People forget that hauling 300+lbs. on an Xtracycle can be a pain in the ass esp. when you have to stop and start a lot, or must ride slowly. Not having enough weight at the front end can make the front jump around such that you're popping unnecessary wheelies when starting from a complete stop.
And I second the need for better kickstand technology, as well as the need for better lock integration/gps tracking. Nothing like coming out of a place with tons of goods only to find your rig missing.
And I second the need for better kickstand technology, as well as the need for better lock integration/gps tracking. Nothing like coming out of a place with tons of goods only to find your rig missing.
JeffS
07-13-07, 03:34 PM
GPS tracking... are you serious?
don't forget flip-up dvd system for the passenger, the electric lift for the kickstand, and the on-star system. It's a bike, not a mini-van.
don't forget flip-up dvd system for the passenger, the electric lift for the kickstand, and the on-star system. It's a bike, not a mini-van.
spambait11
07-13-07, 05:38 PM
GPS tracking... are you serious?
Well, it's got to be invented, but you should be able to implant some sort of RFID chip in the seat tube, for example, so that if it does get stolen, it can be traced. Would some sort of detonation device be more acceptable to you?
don't forget flip-up dvd system for the passenger, the electric lift for the kickstand, and the on-star system. It's a bike, not a mini-van.
Don't hate just 'cause some people know how to roll. We don't all lead boring lives.
Well, it's got to be invented, but you should be able to implant some sort of RFID chip in the seat tube, for example, so that if it does get stolen, it can be traced. Would some sort of detonation device be more acceptable to you?
don't forget flip-up dvd system for the passenger, the electric lift for the kickstand, and the on-star system. It's a bike, not a mini-van.
Don't hate just 'cause some people know how to roll. We don't all lead boring lives.
Raiyn
07-13-07, 05:54 PM
Well, it's got to be invented, but you should be able to implant some sort of RFID chip in the seat tube, for example, so that if it does get stolen, it can be traced. Would some sort of detonation device be more acceptable to you?
Only problems with that are
A) It's not a beacon, they use a passive RFID system in pets which is the chip that most of these types of threads propose. Passive RFID tags have no internal power supply. The minute electrical current induced in the antenna by the incoming radio frequency signal provides just enough power for the CMOS integrated circuit in the tag to power up and transmit a response. Most passive tags signal by backscattering the carrier signal from the reader. This means that the antenna has to be designed to both collect power from the incoming signal and also to transmit the outbound backscatter signal. Not to mention they don't work so great inside metal objects. That and the active RFID's (like in toll booth passes) in addition to needing a power source only have a range of 300 feet.
B) Who's going to know to scan your bike with a chip reader? Also there's no guarantee that the chip reader will be compatible.
So no, I doubt you'll be going all "Jack Bauer" on some scumbag bike thief when you put Fido's microchip in your bike.
Only problems with that are
A) It's not a beacon, they use a passive RFID system in pets which is the chip that most of these types of threads propose. Passive RFID tags have no internal power supply. The minute electrical current induced in the antenna by the incoming radio frequency signal provides just enough power for the CMOS integrated circuit in the tag to power up and transmit a response. Most passive tags signal by backscattering the carrier signal from the reader. This means that the antenna has to be designed to both collect power from the incoming signal and also to transmit the outbound backscatter signal. Not to mention they don't work so great inside metal objects. That and the active RFID's (like in toll booth passes) in addition to needing a power source only have a range of 300 feet.
B) Who's going to know to scan your bike with a chip reader? Also there's no guarantee that the chip reader will be compatible.
So no, I doubt you'll be going all "Jack Bauer" on some scumbag bike thief when you put Fido's microchip in your bike.
Schwinnrider
07-13-07, 06:28 PM
Another advantage the Big Dummy and this Kona have over an Xtracycle is that you can probably get your hands on one sooner than an Xtracycle.
I ordered one in May, and it won't even ship until August (so far).
Surly doesn't have the Big Dummy on the market yet. I respect that they are willing to spend the time to get the product right, especially considering it's not going to be a huge seller(not that any of their bikes are huge sellers, but the Dummy will probably be the lowest seller in their line).
Mike
I ordered one in May, and it won't even ship until August (so far).
Surly doesn't have the Big Dummy on the market yet. I respect that they are willing to spend the time to get the product right, especially considering it's not going to be a huge seller(not that any of their bikes are huge sellers, but the Dummy will probably be the lowest seller in their line).
Mike
spambait11
07-13-07, 07:43 PM
So no, I doubt you'll be going all "Jack Bauer" on some scumbag bike thief when you put Fido's microchip in your bike.
The technology will get to this point, no question. But you're right: whether they become adaptable to bikes is a different matter entirely, predicated on the almighty dollar and whether such an idea can be profitable. Some sort of integrated bike lock technology is much more realistic though, or even something that's able to lock the brakes in place which needs some kind of special release; something a bit more secure than these (http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/closeout/close.html).
The technology will get to this point, no question. But you're right: whether they become adaptable to bikes is a different matter entirely, predicated on the almighty dollar and whether such an idea can be profitable. Some sort of integrated bike lock technology is much more realistic though, or even something that's able to lock the brakes in place which needs some kind of special release; something a bit more secure than these (http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/closeout/close.html).
terceiro
07-13-07, 09:39 PM
Is it just me, or does this bike look sorta like an extra-long mixte? I think the lines are interesting, and it will probably be even more attractive than an xtracycle add-on once there are some nice accessories for it.
SingingSabre
07-13-07, 11:35 PM
meh...seems to me to be more marketing than function. I would wonder without the advent of a stokemonkey or somehting similar, how much weight someone could realistically carry over anyhting other than very flat terrain or short distances? Speaking from a day to day life praciticality standpoint.
70+ pounds.
100+ if I'm feeling feisty. That's with a climb which daunts me with no load, too.
They should make an integrated front rack as well potentially to help counter balance a heavy load in back. People forget that hauling 300+lbs. on an Xtracycle can be a pain in the ass esp. when you have to stop and start a lot, or must ride slowly. Not having enough weight at the front end can make the front jump around such that you're popping unnecessary wheelies when starting from a complete stop.
And I second the need for better kickstand technology, as well as the need for better lock integration/gps tracking. Nothing like coming out of a place with tons of goods only to find your rig missing.
Have you ridden a long bike? The load is carried mostly between the two wheels. They also sport a much lower center of gravity, especially when loaded on the sides. This eliminates front, and rear wheel pop up in all but the most severe cases.
Since getting my Xtra, I've never, ever accidentally lifted a wheel. Bombproof tires are my friend.
70+ pounds.
100+ if I'm feeling feisty. That's with a climb which daunts me with no load, too.
They should make an integrated front rack as well potentially to help counter balance a heavy load in back. People forget that hauling 300+lbs. on an Xtracycle can be a pain in the ass esp. when you have to stop and start a lot, or must ride slowly. Not having enough weight at the front end can make the front jump around such that you're popping unnecessary wheelies when starting from a complete stop.
And I second the need for better kickstand technology, as well as the need for better lock integration/gps tracking. Nothing like coming out of a place with tons of goods only to find your rig missing.
Have you ridden a long bike? The load is carried mostly between the two wheels. They also sport a much lower center of gravity, especially when loaded on the sides. This eliminates front, and rear wheel pop up in all but the most severe cases.
Since getting my Xtra, I've never, ever accidentally lifted a wheel. Bombproof tires are my friend.
johann
07-14-07, 12:43 AM
On first glance, the xtracycle's FreeRadical system (giganto pouches, a place for footpegs/footsies, the ability to put carrying rails for long items like surboards, kayaks, etc) seems superior to this design. But it is still great that this type of bike is getting attention from the more major manufactureres.
unkchunk
07-14-07, 04:56 AM
I wonder if someone will try to hook an Xtracycle to the back of one of those Kona things.
vulcan
07-14-07, 06:54 AM
I think they put the small panniers on purposely so as not to cover up the bike.
You could put some pretty huge stuff on that.
You could put some pretty huge stuff on that.
Russ
07-15-07, 09:09 PM
Not having enough weight at the front end can make the front jump around such that you're popping unnecessary wheelies when starting from a complete stop.
I've never ridden an Xtracycle, but just by looking at the bike, and considering basic physics, you can see that this can't be true. Extending the length of the bike makes "popping a wheelie" harder, not easier, regardless of how much weight is on the front of the bike.
I've never ridden an Xtracycle, but just by looking at the bike, and considering basic physics, you can see that this can't be true. Extending the length of the bike makes "popping a wheelie" harder, not easier, regardless of how much weight is on the front of the bike.
Bushman
07-15-07, 09:32 PM
Someone please show them how to adjust a front fender. ;)
ever ridden in North Vancouver mud? that fender is perfectly adjusted for BC terrain.
ever ridden in North Vancouver mud? that fender is perfectly adjusted for BC terrain.
Bushman
07-15-07, 09:39 PM
Looks like Kona is making an longtail bike like the Surly Big Dummy for 08.
http://www.mtbs.cz/obrazek/kona2008g099.jpg
where did you find that? i dont see it on the Kona site...... :(
me want
http://www.mtbs.cz/obrazek/kona2008g099.jpg
where did you find that? i dont see it on the Kona site...... :(
me want
whatsmyname
07-16-07, 09:58 AM
If I were going to buy this bike, I would be tempted to buy as a raw frame and buy a bug gear for it.
JeffS
07-16-07, 10:03 AM
If I were going to buy this bike, I would be tempted to buy as a raw frame and buy a bug gear for it.
what's bug gear?
what's bug gear?
spambait11
07-16-07, 10:46 AM
I've never ridden an Xtracycle, but just by looking at the bike, and considering basic physics, you can see that this can't be true. Extending the length of the bike makes "popping a wheelie" harder, not easier, regardless of how much weight is on the front of the bike.
All I know is that when putting 300+ lbs on the back of my Xtracycle (which I've done at least three times) I have to push the bike forward a bit to get it rolling, then when I stand up to push down hard on the cranks, my front wheel can slip moving slightly side to side because the wheel pops up, maybe 1/4"? (Sorry, I don't know the distance for sure; I haven't tried looking.) It's worse starting on sandy, hard-packed dirt (a trail going behind our local elementary school), and we're not talking 15" wheelies here. At first I thought my gearing might be too high for such a load (42T x 34 = 31.8 gear inches), but after the first time, I just rolled the bike longer before pedaling. Even then the front end is still a bit unstable, but once rolling, everything's cake. I'm using a Bridgestone MB-6 by the way. Don't know if that makes a difference.
All I know is that when putting 300+ lbs on the back of my Xtracycle (which I've done at least three times) I have to push the bike forward a bit to get it rolling, then when I stand up to push down hard on the cranks, my front wheel can slip moving slightly side to side because the wheel pops up, maybe 1/4"? (Sorry, I don't know the distance for sure; I haven't tried looking.) It's worse starting on sandy, hard-packed dirt (a trail going behind our local elementary school), and we're not talking 15" wheelies here. At first I thought my gearing might be too high for such a load (42T x 34 = 31.8 gear inches), but after the first time, I just rolled the bike longer before pedaling. Even then the front end is still a bit unstable, but once rolling, everything's cake. I'm using a Bridgestone MB-6 by the way. Don't know if that makes a difference.
Raiyn
07-16-07, 01:09 PM
T Some sort of integrated bike lock technology is much more realistic though, or even something that's able to lock the brakes in place which needs some kind of special release; something a bit more secure than these (http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/closeout/close.html).
A bit more secure than a set of bar ends and a stem?
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/796/huhcopyvp0.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huhcopyvp0.jpg)
A bit more secure than a set of bar ends and a stem?
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/796/huhcopyvp0.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huhcopyvp0.jpg)
whatsmyname
07-16-07, 01:17 PM
what's bug gear?
It's, erm, "hub gear" spelled incorrectly. :o
It's, erm, "hub gear" spelled incorrectly. :o
Russ
07-16-07, 03:06 PM
All I know is that when putting 300+ lbs on the back of my Xtracycle (which I've done at least three times) I have to push the bike forward a bit to get it rolling, then when I stand up to push down hard on the cranks, my front wheel can slip moving slightly side to side because the wheel pops up, maybe 1/4"? (Sorry, I don't know the distance for sure; I haven't tried looking.) It's worse starting on sandy, hard-packed dirt (a trail going behind our local elementary school), and we're not talking 15" wheelies here. At first I thought my gearing might be too high for such a load (42T x 34 = 31.8 gear inches), but after the first time, I just rolled the bike longer before pedaling. Even then the front end is still a bit unstable, but once rolling, everything's cake. I'm using a Bridgestone MB-6 by the way. Don't know if that makes a difference.
I think that has more to do with the 300 lbs than it does with the xtracycle itself. If you were to put 300 lbs on the rear rack of regular bike, the characteristics you describe would be even worse.
I think that has more to do with the 300 lbs than it does with the xtracycle itself. If you were to put 300 lbs on the rear rack of regular bike, the characteristics you describe would be even worse.
spambait11
07-16-07, 04:08 PM
A bit more secure than a set of bar ends and a stem?
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/796/huhcopyvp0.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huhcopyvp0.jpg)
Dope! He switched the ad!
That page used to display pics of brake levers that had push button locks to lock the brakes in place.
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/796/huhcopyvp0.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huhcopyvp0.jpg)
Dope! He switched the ad!
That page used to display pics of brake levers that had push button locks to lock the brakes in place.
spambait11
07-16-07, 04:37 PM
I think that has more to do with the 300 lbs than it does with the xtracycle itself.
No doubt. That kind of weight pushes the Xtracycle beyond its intended means, and I never meant to imply it was the fault of the Xtracycle; it is definitely a user issue. :)
But just looking at that Kona and the Big Dummy makes me think that owners will try to push those bikes' limits. In that case, my suggestion was to distribute some load to the front wheel, if possible, for better stability.
No doubt. That kind of weight pushes the Xtracycle beyond its intended means, and I never meant to imply it was the fault of the Xtracycle; it is definitely a user issue. :)
But just looking at that Kona and the Big Dummy makes me think that owners will try to push those bikes' limits. In that case, my suggestion was to distribute some load to the front wheel, if possible, for better stability.
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