General Cycling Discussion - I almost hit a cyclist with my car today.

I can't sleep because:

1. It's hot
2. I can't stop thinking about the near collision

I just made a blog entry about it , you can read it here (http://cipherdreamer.blogspot.com/2007/07/today-i-almost-hit-cyclist.html). I don't feel like rehashing it here and now (maybe in the morning).

Short version:


I almost hit a cyclist who ran a stop sign.
Verbal confrontation ensues.


What are your thoughts?

Also, if mods think this is A&S, feel free to move it. It does involve the safety of a cyclist, but I was in my car.

Bleh. What's the point of a disucssion.
Either
1) You're lying
or
2) It happened like you said and the cyclist is at fault

- was the cyclist wearing a helmet?

- did you notice track marks on the arms?

- is a rehab center nearby?

- what type of bike?

- did you suggest learning how to trackstand?

- my recommendation: don't obsess... it's going to be all right... there's no lifeguard in the gene pool, and that cyclist will soon be injured, crippled, or dead if the same mistake is repeated often enough...

If I'm stopped at a 4-way stop and there's another vehicle coming up, I'll delay my launch just long enough to make sure the other guy is going to stop. That way, if they blow the stop there is no collision.

The fatal flaw in driving mishaps is to 'ass-u-me' the other guy is going to follow procedure.

How would you have felt if you'd have struck and injured (or worse) a cyclist because you were in a hurry?

...

How would you have felt if you'd have struck and injured (or worse) a cyclist because you were in a hurry?


Awful. Hence my pissy mood last night.

I wasn't in a hurry, though. I was applying right-of-way in a proper manner. I don't know if I like the idea that I shouldn't trust others to operate a vehicle in a safe, courteous, and predictable manner. I think it gives license to people to behave improperly. Ah, well... c'est la vie, I suppose.

I don't know what kind of discussion I expected, I was mainly venting. Thanks.

Awful. Hence my pissy mood last night.

I wasn't in a hurry, though. I was applying right-of-way in a proper manner. I don't know if I like the idea that I shouldn't trust others to operate a vehicle in a safe, courteous, and predictable manner. I think it gives license to people to behave improperly. Ah, well... c'est la vie, I suppose.

I don't know what kind of discussion I expected, I was mainly venting. Thanks.
I would hope that they operate a vehicle in a safe, courteous, and predictable manner.
However, I never assume that they will.
Big difference :)

My dad almost cut off a cyclist barreling down a hill once because of his lazy, inattentive driving habits. I cringed in embarassment.

In your case, the cyclist was clearly at fault. So as long as you listen to your head, this should minimize the guilt.

Maybe she already had a couple close calls that weren't her fault and was getting angry. Decides that if everyone else is breaking the law why shouldn't she? Maybe if thinks she's going to die, she would rather would die on her terms instead of some strangers. She probably doesn't ride like that all the time.

Buy an air conditioner and get some sleep! :D

point is if she ran the stop sign = she is at fault .
if she didnt well ...... fill in the blanks
simple .

Cheers T

If I lost sleep every time I nearly nailed someone who had just violated my right-of-way, I would never get ANY sleep. As a matter of fact, I did nail a pedestrian who crossed a street without looking first. When I swerved to miss him, he dodged in such a way that he placed himself back into my new path. He died. I went to the ER to get glass particles rinsed out of my eyes. I still manage to sleep OK. People do often ask me why I often wear clear Oakleys at night while I drive.

He died.......
I still manage to sleep OK.


Is that a joke?

I can't sleep because:

1. It's hot
2. I can't stop thinking about the near collision

I just made a blog entry about it , you can read it here (http://cipherdreamer.blogspot.com/2007/07/today-i-almost-hit-cyclist.html). I don't feel like rehashing it here and now (maybe in the morning).

Short version:


I almost hit a cyclist who ran a stop sign.
Verbal confrontation ensues.


What are your thoughts?

I read your blog entry.

The near-collision, if it happened as you described it, was entirely the cyclist's fault. The confrontation, and the fact that you felt angry and frustrated because the cyclist brushed you off rather than apologizing, were your fault.

If you needed to talk to her at all (other than maybe yelling "watch out!" while she was still in danger of hitting you), then a simple, "Hey, I almost hit you when you ran that stop sign back there. Please be careful" would have sufficed.

Instead, you followed her to where she was parking her bike, and started pestering her with questions about why she hadn't been more careful. You kept it up after she told you to leave. I might understand your level of anger if she had been putting you in danger, but if she endangered herself, she's really not obligated to answer your questions about it afterwards.

If her lack of contrition made you too angry to sleep that night, then you need to work on letting go of things that you have no control over.

It is also worth noting that if I were to overhear a woman tell a man to quit bothering her, and he didn't go away, I would stay nearby and be ready to intervene if necessary...and probably not on his side.

...

Instead, you followed her to where she was parking her bike, and started pestering her with questions about why she hadn't been more careful. You kept it up after she told you to leave. I might understand your level of anger if she had been putting you in danger, but if she endangered herself, she's really not obligated to answer your questions about it afterwards.

...
Technically I didn't follow her. I had to walk past her on the way into the store, and walked back out to where she was (right by the entrance). I could have let it go, but it bothered me that she didn't seem to care at all. Maybe she did, maybe she was just embarrassed, but that was how I perceived it.

The "why" of her actions was important. Was it inattention? Was it a disregard for society's rules? Was it an accident? was it on purpose? That's what I wanted to know. It makes a difference. What's wrong with holding someone accountable for their actions? If they can't justify what they did, perhaps they will think harder the next time (assuming it was done on purpose. If she said it was an accident I would have accepted that, I'm fully aware that accidents happen.).

My goal wasn't to get an apology, I wanted to get her to realize that her actions impact other people. She put me in danger of possibly killing someone. I wouldn't want to go through life with that kind of emotional trauma. That kind of baggage can ruin people's lives. Respectfully, I have to disagree with you, I think that she was obligated to answer my questions for putting me in that situation.

Alternatively, what if I panicked and swerved into the left lane (instead of braking) and collided with a car? Did she put me in danger then?


...
If her lack of contrition made you too angry to sleep that night, then you need to work on letting go of things that you have no control over.
...
It was mainly the heat keeping me awake, it was like 30 degrees in my apartment. If I felt as though I could sleep, I probably wouldn't have been thinking about it that late at night. The rest of my evening after the accident was normal. I wasn't thinking about it until I couldn't sleep.

Sounds a bit like the conversation I had with a woman who ran a red light and buzzed me while I was in the crosswalk. I pointed to the light above us and said "red light." Only she didn't say "flake off." When I told her-- I thought she was a he-- to come back and say it to my face, she did, so I got prepared to kick the, er, stuffing out of "him," until I realized it was a woman. After a back and forth of a few minutes, she finally said "I guess I made a mistake."

The "why" of her actions was important. Was it inattention? Was it a disregard for society's rules? Was it an accident? was it on purpose? That's what I wanted to know. It makes a difference. What's wrong with holding someone accountable for their actions? If they can't justify what they did, perhaps they will think harder the next time (assuming it was done on purpose. If she said it was an accident I would have accepted that, I'm fully aware that accidents happen.).

My goal wasn't to get an apology, I wanted to get her to realize that her actions impact other people. She put me in danger of possibly killing someone. I wouldn't want to go through life with that kind of emotional trauma. That kind of baggage can ruin people's lives. Respectfully, I have to disagree with you, I think that she was obligated to answer my questions for putting me in that situation.

Alternatively, what if I panicked and swerved into the left lane (instead of braking) and collided with a car? Did she put me in danger then?
I concede a certain logic to your points...I still can't imagine that line of questioning leading to anything helpful, though.

In any event, glad you and she are both all right.

I concede a certain logic to your points...I still can't imagine that line of questioning leading to anything helpful, though.

In any event, glad you and she are both all right.
Thanks.

I was hoping for enlightenment for at least one of us. Sometimes I'm too optimistic for my own good.:D

When I was a teenager, I was struck twice by a car. One was not my fault at all. The other was completly my fault and fortunetly I wasn't hurt in that one.

If you had hit the lady, you'd have been at fault regardless. Unless there were witnesses. It is people like that that I dislike. I don't understand why a cyclist assumes they have the right of way in the same manner a pedestrian does.

Rant away and don't feel bad about it. Thankfully, you didn't hit her. The sad thing is, is that may have to happen for her to wake up.

I've recently begun riding around my neighborhood after years of hiatus. I ride when there are very few cars on the road and am always looking for that car being driven by the individual who's in his/her own world.

Keep your chin up!

Is that a joke?
No, a statement meant to make a point. If I can sleep after a real-life fatal collision, the OP should be able to sleep after a near-miss caused by the actions of another. I am at peace, knowing I did what I could to avoid a collision with an inattentive jay-walking pedestrian, and the pedestrian completely negated my evasive action, with the result that a collision occurred anyway. Was it traumatic for me? Well, to be brief, yes, it was. But, after a few days, I slept normally. I did see a psychologist, for one or two visits. He saw no reason for me to feel guilty.

No, a statement meant to make a point. If I can sleep after a real-life fatal collision, the OP should be able to sleep after a near-miss caused by the actions of another. I am at peace, knowing I did what I could to avoid a collision with an inattentive jay-walking pedestrian, and the pedestrian completely negated my evasive action, with the result that a collision occurred anyway. Was it traumatic for me? Well, to be brief, yes, it was. But, after a few days, I slept normally. I did see a psychologist, for one or two visits. He saw no reason for me to feel guilty.

Point taken. I'm already sleeping better. It was just that one night.

Don't worry about it, as people, we have a 100% mortality rate. At which point we all die is all a matter of coincidence and our actions. I can understand why you got worked up about this. I'm no vigilante of traffic laws on the road, but I can't stand JACs and JAMs. People don't seem to have any courtesy any more, always in a rush.

I'd rather not hit or kill anyone, but man, if you're stupid or ignorant enough to run stop signs, red lights, jay walk or making a right when I'm turning left on an advanced green, (All illegal maneuvers)etc. when I have the right of way and when I'm in something as heavy or heavier than you when I hit you, I've got no remorse.

Driving on the road is not a right you have since birth, it's a privilege that you earn, if you abuse it, karma will get you.

She might be thinking it over too, that maybe she shouldn't have ran that stop sign. If she learns anything from her mistakes, she just might live a little longer. If not, well check the obituaries.

I can't stand JACs and JAMs. People don't seem to have any courtesy any more, always in a rush.+1


I'd rather not hit or kill anyone, but man, if you're stupid or ignorant enough to run stop signs, red lights, jay walk or making a right when I'm turning left on an advanced green, (All illegal maneuvers)etc. when I have the right of way and when I'm in something as heavy or heavier than you when I hit you, I've got no remorse.You should have seen the two JACs I saw last night. They were following a car, which of course stopped for the red light, JAC propaganda notwithstanding. They decided to pass the car--on the right-- and run the light. Only the light turned green when they got there, so the car started to go through the intersection. That didn't stop the two JACs from making a left turn, from the right hand side of the car, across the car's path. They survived without a scratch, this time, so I suppose we can all look forward to their future contributions to the gene pool.

Was she hot?

Don't worry about it, as people, we have a 100% mortality rate. At which point we all die is all a matter of coincidence and our actions. I can understand why you got worked up about this. I'm no vigilante of traffic laws on the road, but I can't stand JACs and JAMs. People don't seem to have any courtesy any more, always in a rush.

I'd rather not hit or kill anyone, but man, if you're stupid or ignorant enough to run stop signs, red lights, jay walk or making a right when I'm turning left on an advanced green, (All illegal maneuvers)etc. when I have the right of way and when I'm in something as heavy or heavier than you when I hit you, I've got no remorse.

Driving on the road is not a right you have since birth, it's a privilege that you earn, if you abuse it, karma will get you.

She might be thinking it over too, that maybe she shouldn't have ran that stop sign. If she learns anything from her mistakes, she just might live a little longer. If not, well check the obituaries.

I agree with everything you wrote in this fine, fine post.

Here's the skinny.....

You DIDN'T hit him. It may have been a close call, but that only counts in horseshoes! Happy ending, true?

Here's the skinny.....

You DIDN'T hit him. It may have been a close call, but that only counts in horseshoes! Happy ending, true?Tom, if the OP had instead posted "A car almost hit me today," and in the post, he recounted how a JAM almost hit him, and when he tried to talk to the JAM, she said "flake off," and refused to talk with him, exclaiming "You're not my dad!," would you have said "Here's the skinny.....

She DIDN'T hit you. It may have been a close call, but that only counts in horseshoes! Happy ending, true?"

Here's the skinny.....

You DIDN'T hit him. It may have been a close call, but that only counts in horseshoes! Happy ending, true?

I hear that close also counts in hand grenades. Thankfully, I don't drive a hand grenade anymore. :D