Road Cycling - LS Tuscany versus Trek 5200

Hi all,

I've been shopping for my first serious road bike and spending a lot of time reading this forum. Great stuff.

Currently, the Trek 5200 is at the top of my list. I rode it last week, and to me, it felt light, fast, and yet comfy. Perhaps not as lively as the 2300 aluminum trek and Kleins I rode before it. In any case, I was almost ready to order a 5200. But yesterday, I visited another LBS that sells Litespeed. I hadn't considered Ti bikes before since I thought they would be much more expensive, similarly equipped. Except for wheels and stem, though, I found that an Ultegra equipped Tuscany can still be had for not too much more money than a 5200, although it does cost more. The Tuscany's Ultegra groupo includes Mavic Cosmo wheels which may not be as light/trick as the 5200's Bontragers and I'm not sure about the LS's TT Forge stem versus Bontrager....

In any case, I was hoping someone may have test ridden the Tuscany and 5200 back to back, and could share their opinion. I plan to ride the Tuscany on Weds, and I'll probably ride the 5200 again before making a final decision.

Thanks,
Don

Well then it seems this post was just asking for me to answer. I have ridden a Tuscany and a Trek 5500 back to back.

I chose the Tuscany.

Now whatever i say here is purely down to personal choice.

The test bikes were a LS Tuscany fitted out with Shimano Ultegra + Reynold Ouzo Pro Integrated fork cane creek IS2 headset and the Trek was kitted our with Dura ace and super light wheels. Overall it was a lighter bike compared to the Tuscany.

Tuscany:
Likes
- really lively stiff feel
- compliancy, really absorbing and comfortable
- geometry suited me (biggest deciding factor)
- did I mention lively and stiff??
- Integrated headset bearing cups are replaceable.
- really beautiful bike to look at in unpainted brushed Titanium
- Reputation for reliability
:D :D

Dislikes:
- Integrated headset

Trek:
Likes
- great value for money
lighter (but then it should be as it was speced with more expensive components)
- Nice organic design
- reputation for reliability

Dislikes:

- Uninvolving ride
- feels and sounds plasticky
- Not as stiff as Tuscany
- not as pretty as Tuscany
- has a very dead feel to it. You accelerate but you don't feel the urgency of the moment.


In the end the Tuscany won and built to my Spec;

Reynold Ouzo Pro Integrated fork
Cane Creek IS6 Headset
FSA Team Issue Pro Carbon cranks (octalink)
Campagnolo Record Groupset (except the crank - although I have that as well)
Selle Italia SLK saddle
Record carbon Seat pin
3T Less bars and ZeppXL stem
Mavics glorious Ksyrium SSC SL wheel set
Michelin Axial Pro tyres

Weighs in at 7.48kg in size 53 with bottle cage and Time Impact Mag pedals.
A similar weight to the stock Trek 5500 but costs a little more.
I think the performance and feel was worth the extra dosh.:D :beer:

Happy times ahead for you mate.
Let us know what works for you.

Originally posted by dschoppe
Currently, the Trek 5200 is at the top of my list. I rode it last week, and to me, it felt light, fast, and yet comfy.

Did you get to ride the Litespeed? If not, find a way to ride it. Both machines are fine scoots - find the one that feels the best, and you will have your answer! :)

Heh, always an opposing view :-)

I rode both as well, and I picked the 5200. Just like the previous guy, it was more of a personal choice than anything else. Both bikes were very close and any differences I mention are of the slightest amounts.

I liked the ride of the 5200 better, seemed not quite as harsh, it definately seemed to climb better and lastly it was quieter. Not to mention I think it looks better (5200 in natural carbon, not the USPS colors one).

I think you will be quite happy with either one and you MUST ride both. If it were an election though, I would vote for the 5200.

Allan

wow, these are two bikes i have a LOT of experience with. my dad rides a dura-ace equipped tuscany, and i ride a 5200. i've gotten in plenty of saddle time with both.

ride quality-
neither bike will beat you up, but the tuscany wins hands down in this comparo. it has the lively springyness of ti, and bumpy roads feel glass smooth from the saddle. the 5200 dulls the bumps, but they still get transmitted to you.

stiffness-
the 5200 wins in a romp. this was literally the first thing i noticed when i rode it. i had been riding the tuscany while waiting on the 5200 to arrive at the lbs, and the 5200's bottom bracket is eons stiffer. not to say the tuscany is a wet noodle, it's quite stiff for ti, but the 5200 is probably one of the stiffest bikes on the market. transfer of power is incredible. there is absolutely NO delay when you stomp on the pedals.

componentry-
well, my dad's tuscany is spec'd differently than yours will be. you seemed to have some concern about the mavic cosmos wheels; they are definitely heavier than the bontragers, but i wouldn't concern myself with weight too much. one of the fastest guys in our club rides mavic cosmos wheels, and they dont slow him down at all. both bikes have ultegra which is more or less identical to dura-ace except for materials. i would, however, be cautious with the tuscany's newfangled integrated headset. the jury is still out on these, and they may not be around in ten years, making it hard to find parts. my dad's tuscany came before the integrated headset.

geometry-
both bikes fit me. the trek is much more stable, riding hands off is a cinch. by comparison, the tuscany is a bit twitchy due to its steeper seat tube and shorter top tube. but geometry is something you'll get used to so long as the size is right.

my verdict-
i'd go with the 5200 for its blazing fast reflexes. however, i've been on some long rides before, and by the end i was wishing i had the comfort of a ti bike. so if you're gonna be doing lots of centuries, this is something to take into consideration.

if you have any other questions, please ask!! i've got tons of saddle time in with both.

[edit] i forgot to mention this at first, but i personally think that the 5200 with the clearcoat carbon finish is the most beautiful bike going. the gussets are incredible.

Dj,

How much does your dad's Tuscany weigh??

I have also ridden both back to back. And, I rode two identically equipped and sized Tuscany's with the exception of the wheels. One Tuscany had Mavic Cosmos and one had Ksyrium SLs. As would be expected, the Ksyriums were harsher in that you feel every bit of the road (even the tiniest pebbles or inperfections) and, they were quicker. Actually, significantly quicker. With the Ksyriums the difference in "step-and-go" between the Trek 5200 and Tuscany was very little. They were very close in this regard. However, I sort of prefered the Cosmos for their easier ride characteristics. They tend to keep the grimacing down. The Ksyriums are really a race wheel in my opinion.

Back to the Trek 5200 vs Tuscany. I liked both. But between the two, I prefer the Trek due to the more damped, or deader feel. It also just seemed to never get bothered by performance demands. It took everything in stride and remained extremely stable. On the 5200 I feel what I like to feel while cycling. Not springiness or liveliness - but instead the road and wind, inertia and gravity, steering responsiveness, my own biomechanics, the controlling forces, stability, etc. I just love it.

These feelings also exist on the Tuscany however, at times they get overshadowed or confused by the "springy" or "lively" steel characteristics which tend to creep in on all but the smoothest straight line surfaces.

Just subjective preference. Take all this with a grain of salt as it is impossible to know just how much you will like a bike from what other people write. Spend as much time on both prior to making a decision.

B

Dj,

How much does your dad's Tuscany weigh??

well, it's a '99 model year tuscany frame; this was before they started the tube-shaping stuff. it's built up with complete dura-ace, velomax ascent wheels, speedplay x-2's, litespeed ti seatpost, ritchey flip-flop stem, and a cinelli handlebar. it was a long time ago when it was put on a scale, but i think it was like 17.2 lbs with bottle cages and pedals.

however, i'm currently using the velomax wheels on the 5200 and he has the bontrager race lites on the tuscany... the bontragers add a significant amount of weight, i think it's well over 18lbs at the moment.

Thanks for the great input. I enjoyed reading your posts. I'll be riding the Tuscany Weds night, so I'll post my impressions then. Today, I went and rode the 5200 again, followed by a Giant TCR Composite 1. The Giant really surprised me. It rode a little "harsher" than the 5200, felt stiffer, and seemed to respond more quickly to handlebar and pedal inputs. The 5200 felt more stable and quiet, and provided more isolation from the road surface.

For me the ride on the Giant was a bit more involving, and based on ride/performance alone I might actually choose it over the 5200. However, the Trek warranty (lifetime versus 5-years), as well as the fit and finish, are certainly points in the 5200's favor.

It will be really interesting to see how the Tuscany compares. I wonder if I should also consider the Siena, given that I preferred the compact frame geometry of the Giant?

Thanks again,
Don

Having ridden both, I prefer the Tuscany. As has been said before, the 5200 felt rather sluggish and unresponsive. As for the comments about the 5200 being stiffer than the Tuscany, 99 was before Litespeed started shaping the tubing on this model. Newer models are stiffer in the bb area and more compliant vertically. The other issue I have with the 5200 is with the cracked frames that we saw at the shop I used to work at. While Trek took care of the customers with these issues, it was disconcerting to see half a dozen cracked frames in a year as we were not a Trek dealer and didn't get many 5200's in for repair-the percentage was too high for my liking. In 9 years of dealing in Litespeed our shop had yet to warranty one.
I've also ridden the Siena and found it to be a bit more responsive than the Tuscany.

Yes I've tried the Sienna as well and it is more responsive to out of the saddle climbing and sprinting. But since i prefer to stay seated while climbing (comes from mountainbiking) I chose the Tuscany because it felt better than the Sienna if you remained seated while climbing.

Really, you're gonna have to ride quite a few bikes before you choose. I did and I'm not sorry. There's a couple of pee'd of LBS Owners but hey, you can't please everybody.

PS: This may not sway your decision but I would just like to share my stand point on bonded carbon frames.
I don't trust them. Although the adhesives used are very strong in shear, they are also very brittle. Since the glue holdng the tubes in place is very important (no **** sherlock), I'm very weary of bikes built in this manner.
The only ones I do trust are;

Trek's OCLV - been around a while and although I am aware of cracking on earlier models I'm not in a position to comment on the recent models

Time VX Special Pro - Been in development for many yrs and they used RTV (elastomer) based adhesiv which is more flexible than epoxy with similar bond and shear strength. Bikes are actually based on the TVT Greg LeMond rode to tour victory in 1990.

LooK - Also been around for many many yrs. Loads of experience. Bikes are fragile in accidents though. Never heard of one cracking.

Colnago C-40 - Although I think it's way overpriced, it is a very good bike and the frame is well made and designed

Kestrel: They're Monomoulded. enough said. No better construction method for CF frames.

Hi,

Well, I rode the Tuscany tonight and I really liked it. I'm not sure it was quite as fast as the 5200 or Giant, nor quite as light, but I the ride was great, and the fit was very comfortable once I swapped the stock saddle for a Terry Fly Ti. I also got a fantastic deal on the bike packaged with Ksyrium SSC SL wheels! I preferred their quicker/stiffer ride, and they really complemented the black trim paint on my frame's top tube and down tube. My bike looks like the one on Litespeed's page: http://www.litespeed.com/english/bikes/bikes_img/tuscany_lg.jpg

I really don't think I could have gone wrong with either the 5200 or the Tuscany, but for me I feel the Tuscany was the right choice.

Regarding the Ksyrium SSC SL's, how does one tighten the spokes? I'm wondering if I was suppose to receive a special spoke wrench or other tools with the wheel set, since the nipples don't accept standard spoke wrench.

I still haven't decided on pedals or road shoes, but while I'm looking, I'll "steal" the Shimano SPD's and shoes from mountain bike, so I don't have to wait to ride!

Thanks again for all of you help and advice.

Don

awesome! i hope you enjoy the new bike.

yes, you need mavic's proprietary wrench to tighten ksyrium spokes.

and why not try speedplay? :D

Lekker dude!!
Wise choice. Only problem is now you'll never be able to justify another bike at that level.
also try the Time Impacts. Really nice and they have a largersurface area than the speed plays so they feel lighter under the foot. Feels like ice skating at first though but you soon get used to it.

Originally posted by dschoppe
http://www.litespeed.com/english/bikes/bikes_img/tuscany_lg.jpg

For thos of us too lazy to click (usually me!): BTW - great looking scoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It sounds as if you made a great educated decision.

Congratulations, dschoppe! You will certainly enjoy that bike. I would have bought it myself, if the bank account would have allowed for it. So I settled for a special deal on a 2002 Arenberg, which resembles the Tuscany in many respects. I have not regretted it ever since (so far, 6.000 km of pure pleasure).

Your timing is also excellent: the new Tuscany, IMHO, will not be as 'classy' (read: classic). Litespeed have converted into a Vortex-like machine with larger, shaped tubes. Undoubtedly (even) more expensive and not to everyone's taste...

Welcome to the Litespeed club! Don't forget to register for the owners group at Litespeed.com

Well, after riding my new Tuscany for almost a week now, I love it. I added Speedplay Zero pedals and picked up a pair of SIDI Genius 4 Lorica shoes. (I first tried the Nike Poggio for a few days. They were very light with extremely stiff soles, but in the end, I think they were a bit too narrow for my feet, becoming uncomfortable after a few miles). I'm hoping the SIDIs will prove to be more comfortable...

Thanks, all, for your help and advice. I couldn't be happier with the decision. LSR, I'll definitely check out the Litespeed site to register.

Ride safely,
Don
Don

Hey Don, where did you get the bike at?? I am assuming Bikes USA or whatever the name of that shop is now there next to Best Buy on 70?? I also tried the Nike's and ended up keeping them, partly due to the price since they are on sale during the tour.

Hi RedRider,

I purchased my Litespeed at The Clean Machine in Carrboro, NC. Here's their website: http://www.thecleanmachine.com/

Regards,
Don

Ahh, you and I must live in the same triangle. I have been to Clean Machine on numerous occassions trying to decide between the Litespeed (Clean Machine) and the Trek (Franklin Street). I have not made a final decision yet as I wanted to see the '04 bikes. The Trek 5200 remains essentially the same but the Tuscany gets some tube twisting. The new ones are due out in less than two weeks. Unfortunately the reduced prices will not apply to the new models. Oh well....I guess in the end it does not matter. I just want the bike that ultimately feels the best. Gee, they are so different but so very close.

Congrats on you purchase.