You don't pay for the roads!

[JohnBrooking]

I was just reading this thread (http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3214) on a law enforcement discussion list that was referenced elsewhere, and up came the old saw about cyclists not paying for the roads. The poster from the Equal Rights for Cyclists Campaign (http://www.cyclemedia.org/ercc/index.htm) provided about the best rebuttal to this I've seen yet, so I thought I'd share it here:


== who is paying for these roads that "are truly for everyone."... the bike better stay out of my way, at least until they start paying their own way. ==

Well, this is out of the purview of the ERCC, which deals only with education, existing rights and rules. So I'll answer personally:

Are you prepared to apply this standard to yourself? Will you remove your car from the roads if I prove that you don't pay for them? Get ready ...

First: in most states, local roads are generally built and maintained with local *property* taxes. So by your standards, if you don't own property in that county, you shouldn't use their roads. Highways are paid for from state and federal taxes. Cyclists cannot maintain the min. speed limit on highways, and so don't generally use them. By your standard, drivers can use the highways, but must park and walk or bike on the local roads. Don't worry -- it's good for you.

Second: the USDept. of Transportation figures that every motor vehicle driver gets a $3000 per year subsidy from the general tax funds. Look it up. You know how big trucks have signs saying "I paid $5000 in taxes"? Well, at the modern 40 million dollars per mile of interstate highway, that doesn't even cover one stripe.

Third: Most cyclists also own and drive cars. They're already paying taxes, yet creating far less wear and tear and congestion when they cycle. YOU are actually being subsidized by them!

Fourth: existing laws do not require cyclists to pay vehicle and fuel taxes. When they do, we will. You are welcome to change the existing laws, but please do not make up your own.

In summary, you're not paying much at all. Now, do you want to share the roads as a public facility for everyone, or should we split them up?

In a sense, I hate to even perpetuate this discussion, because even responding gives credence to the falsehood that paying for the roads has anything to do with using them. In that sense, it doesn't matter who pays and who doesn't, we all have the legal right anyway. But still, I guess it's good to try to dispose of that excuse.

[joejack951]

Ms. Lauren Cooper should familiarize herself with the term "highway" and learn to use it correctly. A "highway" is any public roadway. Limited access freeways (with posted minimum speed limits) are the roads that cyclists are typically excluded from. I personally get very annoyed when I hear from motorists that I shouldn't be on the "highway" (most often heard on the arterial road that I take to my neighborhood). Some people's definition of "highway" seems to be any road with more than one lane in each direction so applying the former "no cyclists on highways" logic with that definition leads to some misinformed, raging motorists.

[Falkon]

I pay taxes, so if I murder you with my vehicle, it's your fault. So, you just better cower to my mighty vehicle and stay out of my way.

Oh the logic is infallable!

[cyccommute]

I once had this discussion with someone about 6 years ago. Here's my response:

Let's tax bicycles at the same rate as they tax cars and trucks! I have a '92
Nissan and an '86 Suburban. My tax bills on these vehicles this year were
$35, and $38, respectively. The Nissan weighs about 2600 lbs, the
Suburban weighs about 8000 pounds. That works out to $0.01 per pound on
the Nissan and $0.005 on the Suburban. Heck, I'll even be generous and
pay at the higher rate for all of my bikes and I will gladly send a check
for $3.45 for the registration and ownership tax on my bikes (13 bikes
times 25 lb each times $0.01) to the State of Colorado each and every year!
Heck, I might even be willing to pay up to 5 times that amount just to make up for my free
loading in the past!

But, you might ask, automobile owners pay a tax on the fuel that they use.
Well, a few years ago, the State of Colorado decided to not tax food so I
can't be penalized for that since everyone has to eat. But just to be
fair, I promise that I won't use anymore food to get me down the road on
my bike than any other ordinary person eats (at least until I lose all of
that food that I stored last summer in Vermont, a.k.a. fat).

What about insurance? Well, I'll pay for insurance in proportion to the
amount of property damage I can do to another vehicle if I run in to it.
My Suburban cost me about $400 per year in liability. Using simple high
school physics, momentum is expressed as the product of mass times
velocity. If the average speed of a vehicle over a year is assumed to be
about 45 mph, given the combined highway and nonhighway speeds, then the
momentum of my Suburban at any given moment is about 11,250
slug-miles/hour (yes, Virginia, there really is a measurement called the
slug), while the momentum of my bike at any given moment is about 9.3
slug-miles/hour (25 lb bike at an average speed of 12 mph, I'm kinda
slow!). So the amount of insurance I pay on my Suburban is about $0.04
per slug-mile/hour. There again I will gladly pay many times (5) as much
for my bike in terms of dollars per slug-mile/hour ($.70 per year) to make
up for past transgressions.

Now that I have paid my taxes (at five times the rate of the automobile
owner) and have my insurance (again at five times what an automobile owner
pays), I have the right to make DEMANDS! According to Martha Roskowski of
Bicycle Colorado, we only get 0.5% of the federal transportation pie in
this state for bicycle and pedestrian facilities. If I am paying soooo
much more, proportionally, than automobile drivers, then I want more,
proportionally, done for me and my bicycling community. I want 10 foot
wide travel lanes on ALL roads in the state in both directions! If the
road can't be widened because it would cause too much environmental
damage, then I won't be greedy, I'll settle for one lane of all two lane
roads. The cars will just have to share the remaining lane with the other
cars or just travel in one direction - why should I be inconvenienced? I
pay 5 times more in taxes then they do! I want the lanes swept by English
butler types wearing tuxedos. I pay 5 times as much, proportionally, as
the car drivers do. Maybe they should be covered to prevent me from
having to ride in inclement weather. After all I pay 5 times as much,
proportionally, as they do!

[jabsin]

Ugh. When I read a post like this, I can't help but be ashamed that, as an LEO, I'm grouped with these people. It's no wonder people dislike the police so much.

I say keep the bikers off the street. Let them build and pay for their own roads so they can ride their little sissy bikes with their little sissy clothes. I'm sick of hearing about this right and that right and her right and his right and the bikers rights and the whales rights and the penguins rights and dogs rights.

Stop whining and stay out of the cars way. Get a horse.
Good thing most of them are in TX; far, far away from me. And to think, Lance came from their state!

[evblazer]

Ugh. When I read a post like this, I can't help but be ashamed that, as an LEO, I'm grouped with these people. It's no wonder people dislike the police so much.


Good thing most of them are in TX; far, far away from me. And to think, Lance came from their state!
Except for ticketing red light/stop sign running cyclists we are all very friendly down here in my part of Texas. Tickets go into the general fund though but potentially end up paying for the roads or bike paths. So get out there and break the law and get your money into the local towns hands. :D We have tons of bike paths now. None go anywhere useful or very far. A few amusing ones start from an intersection then goes 10-20' and just stop and drops you in some bushes/trees. Guess we ran out of funds :(

I seem to remember a story about Lance or some of his pals getting run off the road down here in TX. At least that is what I was told when they first hear I rode my bike after I moved here.

[CB HI]

Fortunately, most know that the proportion of idiot cops is low, as is the proportion of JAMs and JABs.

[JohnBrooking]

I say keep the bikers off the street. Let them build and pay for their own roads so they can ride their little sissy bikes with their little sissy clothes. I'm sick of hearing about this right and that right and her right and his right and the bikers rights and the whales rights and the penguins rights and dogs rights.

Stop whining and stay out of the cars way. Get a horse.
Like this person would support someone riding a galloping horse in the roadway. Not to mention that if we do, we ought to stop and clean it up everytime the thing poops! ;)

[Cyclaholic]

I once had this discussion with someone about 6 years ago. Here's my response:

Let's tax bicycles at the same rate as they tax cars and trucks! I have a '92
Nissan and an '86 Suburban. My tax bills on these vehicles this year were
$35, and $38, respectively. The Nissan weighs about 2600 lbs, the
Suburban weighs about 8000 pounds. That works out to $0.01 per pound on
the Nissan and $0.005 on the Suburban. Heck, I'll even be generous and
pay at the higher rate for all of my bikes and I will gladly send a check
for $3.45 for the registration and ownership tax on my bikes (13 bikes
times 25 lb each times $0.01) to the State of Colorado each and every year!
Heck, I might even be willing to pay up to 5 times that amount just to make up for my free
loading in the past!

But, you might ask, automobile owners pay a tax on the fuel that they use.
Well, a few years ago, the State of Colorado decided to not tax food so I
can't be penalized for that since everyone has to eat. But just to be
fair, I promise that I won't use anymore food to get me down the road on
my bike than any other ordinary person eats (at least until I lose all of
that food that I stored last summer in Vermont, a.k.a. fat).

What about insurance? Well, I'll pay for insurance in proportion to the
amount of property damage I can do to another vehicle if I run in to it.
My Suburban cost me about $400 per year in liability. Using simple high
school physics, momentum is expressed as the product of mass times
velocity. If the average speed of a vehicle over a year is assumed to be
about 45 mph, given the combined highway and nonhighway speeds, then the
momentum of my Suburban at any given moment is about 11,250
slug-miles/hour (yes, Virginia, there really is a measurement called the
slug), while the momentum of my bike at any given moment is about 9.3
slug-miles/hour (25 lb bike at an average speed of 12 mph, I'm kinda
slow!). So the amount of insurance I pay on my Suburban is about $0.04
per slug-mile/hour. There again I will gladly pay many times (5) as much
for my bike in terms of dollars per slug-mile/hour ($.70 per year) to make
up for past transgressions.

Now that I have paid my taxes (at five times the rate of the automobile
owner) and have my insurance (again at five times what an automobile owner
pays), I have the right to make DEMANDS! According to Martha Roskowski of
Bicycle Colorado, we only get 0.5% of the federal transportation pie in
this state for bicycle and pedestrian facilities. If I am paying soooo
much more, proportionally, than automobile drivers, then I want more,
proportionally, done for me and my bicycling community. I want 10 foot
wide travel lanes on ALL roads in the state in both directions! If the
road can't be widened because it would cause too much environmental
damage, then I won't be greedy, I'll settle for one lane of all two lane
roads. The cars will just have to share the remaining lane with the other
cars or just travel in one direction - why should I be inconvenienced? I
pay 5 times more in taxes then they do! I want the lanes swept by English
butler types wearing tuxedos. I pay 5 times as much, proportionally, as
the car drivers do. Maybe they should be covered to prevent me from
having to ride in inclement weather. After all I pay 5 times as much,
proportionally, as they do!

I love it, that's just poetry!

My respect for your analytical approach has just been upgraded to admiration. :D

I'm going to save this as a text file and tuck it away somewhere safe.

[Eli_Damon]

What about insurance? Well, I'll pay for insurance in proportion to the
amount of property damage I can do to another vehicle if I run in to it.
My Suburban cost me about $400 per year in liability. Using simple high
school physics, momentum is expressed as the product of mass times
velocity. If the average speed of a vehicle over a year is assumed to be
about 45 mph, given the combined highway and nonhighway speeds, then the
momentum of my Suburban at any given moment is about 11,250
slug-miles/hour (yes, Virginia, there really is a measurement called the
slug), while the momentum of my bike at any given moment is about 9.3
slug-miles/hour (25 lb bike at an average speed of 12 mph, I'm kinda
slow!). So the amount of insurance I pay on my Suburban is about $0.04
per slug-mile/hour.

Actually, you are underestimating the difference between between bikes and cars in their capacity to cause damage by a factor of 3.75=45mph/12mph. The damage a vehicle is capable of should be measured by its kinetic energy, not its momentum. Kinetic energy is (1/2)*mass*(speed^2). Except for that small oversight, your calculation is great. I like it.

Also, there is a cost of accommodating cars that I have never heard mentioned. I am referring to the cost of the police who patrol the roads. If we did not insist on accommodating cars at such a high level, we would not need so many police resources to effectively patrol the roads. How many cops to we have on the roads and how many do we have in other public places? If I was to judge by my personal experience alone (not so reliable I admit), then more than 99% are on the roads. In fact, an on-duty police officer who is not in a car is an extremely rare (less than once a year) sight for me.

[Cyclaholic]

Also, there is a cost of accommodating cars that I have never heard mentioned. I am referring to the cost of the police who patrol the roads. If we did not insist on accommodating cars at such a high level, we would not need so many police resources to effectively patrol the roads. How many cops to we have on the roads and how many do we have in other public places? If I was to judge by my personal experience alone (not so reliable I admit), then more than 99% are on the roads. In fact, an on-duty police officer who is not in a car is an extremely rare (less than once a year) sight for me.

In that case we should maybe look at the value of all the public space along the side of the road made available as free parking. Real estate has a rent value, so every citizen that parks their car for free on public space is being susidized in part by cyclists that pay equally to make that space available but don't have a need for it.

Not sure how applicable this may be in the USA but we have a substantial public health system here in which the healthy (physically healthy/active like cyclists) subsidize the sick (sedate motorists).

What about the 'carbon credits' we may be entitled to by cycling instead of driving, or even the much reduced emission in building a bike Vs a car in the first place? Apparently lowering your emissions these days is worth something if you're big business so why not cyclists?

[Hoshnasi]

Wonderful!
The overwhelming majority of bicycles are a menace to society.
Man, people are really all about themselves in this day and age. I think moreso than they have ever been too. MEMEMMEME and damn all you. I have a RIGHT to blow down the street and kill cyclist or anyone who impedes me doing 20+ the posted mph.

Side note, I understand my laws in regards to light signals that don't switch. Can someone give me the info on the stop sign thing? I slow to a stop (trackstand) then go. I don't put my feet down, is that legal?

Thanks!

[banerjek]

In that case we should maybe look at the value of all the public space along the side of the road made available as free parking. Real estate has a rent value, so every citizen that parks their car for free on public space is being susidized in part by cyclists that pay equally to make that space available but don't have a need for it.
Actually, I would call that a traffic lane that cars seem to think it's OK to go zero mph on. I keep on hearing how bikes are slow, but I don't know of any cyclist who wouldn't operate his or her pedal powered vehicle much faster if only that lane weren't completely blocked by cars.


Not sure how applicable this may be in the USA but we have a substantial public health system here in which the healthy (physically healthy/active like cyclists) subsidize the sick (sedate motorists).

Very applicable. My employer pays over $1000 USD per month for my health insurance! I haven't even had a doctor for over 20 years though my wife made me get one along with a checkup this year because everyone in my family has heart problems.

At the exam, the doc told me that I was in tip top shape, but to both of our surprise, a couple things turned out marginal on the lab tests. I asked the doc what I changes I could make to my lifestyle, but she said that I was really was doing everything and her best advice was to keep it up. No recommended changes to diet, exercise plan, etc.

For now, I still do not require medication that my younger brothers need. Someday, I might have to take that stuff too (which I find difficult to fathom given my lifestyle), but I will have postponed the date that I needed care for many years.

Despite my genetic predisposition for health problems, I'm very certain that lifetime premiums paid by me or on my behalf will subsidize the average person.

[Dchiefransom]

Wonderful!

Man, people are really all about themselves in this day and age. I think moreso than they have ever been too. MEMEMMEME and damn all you. I have a RIGHT to blow down the street and kill cyclist or anyone who impedes me doing 20+ the posted mph.

Side note, I understand my laws in regards to light signals that don't switch. Can someone give me the info on the stop sign thing? I slow to a stop (trackstand) then go. I don't put my feet down, is that legal?

Thanks!

I never found that requirement in the vehicle code, but I've never observed a cyclist actually do a trackstand and stop in one place without moving around a bit. Watch other cyclists at traffic lights. The one trying to track stand will not be stopped for even a second, while the one with the foot down is.

[trackhub]

"I say keep the bikers off the street. Let them build and pay for their own roads so they can ride their little sissy bikes with their little sissy clothes. I'm sick of hearing about this right and that right and her right and his right and the bikers rights and the whales rights and the penguins rights and dogs rights.

Stop whining and stay out of the cars way. Get a horse."

So, MikeTX feel that no one should have any rights except himself? Guess he doesn't like living in America. He should consider living somewhere else.

Excellent work, cycocommute. I'm also going to save that as a text, if you OK with it.

If you really want to make one of these characters go ballistic, just tell them that the bicycle has been around for 120 years. (give or take) Bikes were ridden on the public roads of this country for years, before the first model T came off the assembly line. Bicycles will be here after the last SUV (substitute the vehicle type of your choice, if you like) has been crushed, shredded, and sent to Japan, where they'll make into consumer electronics.

[Goriot]

cyccommute, I'm also saving that. However, in our attempts to make it very accurate, your weight should be factored in when calculating your kinetic energy. Its negligeable with a 8000lbs behemoth, but not on a 25lb bike!

Secondly, I was recently sent an email where they outlined the cost per gallon of different liquids. It went something like this.
"The cost of gasoline is 3.50 a gallon (I'm making this up, I don't know what a gallon costs). If you think that's expensive, well then consider this. A small tube of white out is one dollar, so a gallon is x. A bottle of tropicana is so and so, so a gallon costs y. The email goes through many different liquids, from white out to coke and ends with.... Water, saying that water is ridiculously expensive per gallon.
Then the final line- So next time you fill up, be thankful your car doesn't run on water!"

just wow... the email misses so many things. Not only does it completely ignore the environmental consequences of gasoline use, it misses a crucial point so many people don't get. The cost per gallon is irrelevant, its the cost of how much you need that counts. No one requires a gallon of white out, and a gallon would last someone a lifetime. But gas, even though its cheap compared to other liquids, you use so much of it that in absolute terms, it is ridiculously more costly than anything else.
I was really annoyed with this email...

PS: Falkon, I absolutely love your sig.

[Daily Commute]

The insurance argument is also a crock. If you or your parents have homeowner's or renter's insurance, you are probably covered (call your agent to be sure, internet advice is worth every penny you pay for it). My homeowner's policy covers liability caused when I'm riding, and I have much higher limits than most drivers do.

I wish there were bike-only liability insurance. If you get more than a claim or two on your homeowner's insurance, your rates can skyrocket, or you may become virtually uninsurable.

As for the few who remain uninsured, call me back when cyclists cause more than a tiny fraction of the carnage automobiles and trucks inflict on others.

[eofelis]

Also, there is a cost of accommodating cars that I have never heard mentioned. I am referring to the cost of the police who patrol the roads. If we did not insist on accommodating cars at such a high level, we would not need so many police resources to effectively patrol the roads. How many cops to we have on the roads and how many do we have in other public places? If I was to judge by my personal experience alone (not so reliable I admit), then more than 99% are on the roads. In fact, an on-duty police officer who is not in a car is an extremely rare (less than once a year) sight for me.

My SO asked a fireman once how many house fires they responded to in a week. Maybe one, the fireman said. Then how many car accidents do the firemen attend to? A couple a day.

[CommuterRun]

Motorist: "You shouldn't be allowed on the road. You don't pay yada, yada, yada."

CR Reply: "Have you served in the military?" (Most haven't.) "Then why should you be allowed to live in America?"

Motorist: Stammering out some BS.

CR: Cutting off motorist, "Because it's a free nation. You're welcome. Have a nice day."

[-=£em in Pa=-]

In another forum unrelated to bicycles I ranted about SUVs
and got told by not buying gas, bicyclists 'owe' car drivers
because we are using the roads they fund with thier gas tax.
How do you argue with that mentality ?

[donnamb]

Well, in most places in the US, the gax tax only pays for 40-60% of the roads. The rest is income, property, and sales taxes - depending on where you're living. If you don't feel comfortable spouting out statistics, tell 'em you totally agree with taxing based on the weight of the vehicle and you'll write congress for it if they do. That's the line I use most of the time and it shuts them right up. :D

[John E]

In another forum unrelated to bicycles I ranted about SUVs
and got told by not buying gas, bicyclists 'owe' car drivers
because we are using the roads they fund with their gas tax.
How do you argue with that mentality ?
Donna's response is spot-on. Motorists do not recognize, or at least do not admit, that the private automobile is the most heavily subsidized form of transportation we have.

[trackhub]

Well, in most places in the US, the gax tax only pays for 40-60% of the roads. The rest is income, property, and sales taxes - depending on where you're living. If you don't feel comfortable spouting out statistics, tell 'em you totally agree with taxing based on the weight of the vehicle and you'll write congress for it if they do. That's the line I use most of the time and it shuts them right up. :D


I like it.

[donnamb]

I could afford $1 per pound annually - even with my heavy Breezer. Heck, I could even afford it if I ever get my dream Bakfiets. I wonder if the guy who wants me off the road could say the same. :D

[invisiblehand]

Not sure how applicable this may be in the USA but we have a substantial public health system here in which the healthy (physically healthy/active like cyclists) subsidize the sick (sedate motorists).

Interesting ... although I recall that most health care costs are incurred during the last few years of life. Roughly speaking, if you lead a healthy or unhealthy life, your lifetime health care costs may be close.

But I am relatively unfamiliar with the research and relevant figures. Think of the above as a devil's advocate comment.

-G

[jimmuter]

Well, in most places in the US, the gax tax only pays for 40-60% of the roads. The rest is income, property, and sales taxes - depending on where you're living. If you don't feel comfortable spouting out statistics, tell 'em you totally agree with taxing based on the weight of the vehicle and you'll write congress for it if they do. That's the line I use most of the time and it shuts them right up. :D

That's right. The people who make arguments like that generally have no idea how that money is being spent and how much it really costs to maintain a road that is repeatedly torn up by heavy vehicles. Not only does the gas tax only fund a portion of the roads, but there is a decent portion of the tax that doesn't get spent on roads at all. Some of the tax is specifically allocated to the general fund of the federal government to be spent however they please. Other portions are earmarked to build museums, make films about transportation and fund other tangentially related items. It's really just a shell game.

A portion is also used for interstates. We have two interstates running through this city and bikes aren't allowed on either. There are also other limited access expressways here where cyclists are not allowed.

Let's say someone fills up a 15 gallon gas tank once a week. I think our combined federal / state / local gas taxes are about 47 cents per gallon here. $0.47 x 15 gallons x 52 weeks = $367 / year. Around here, that'll buy about 13 feet of repaving, and that's if every dollar they paid in gas taxes was used for roads. In effect, the amount sent to maintain roads out of that $367 could scarcely patch a pothole.

[cyccommute]

Let's say someone fills up a 15 gallon gas tank once a week. I think our combined federal / state / local gas taxes are about 47 cents per gallon here. $0.47 x 15 gallons x 52 weeks = $367 / year. Around here, that'll buy about 13 feet of repaving, and that's if every dollar they paid in gas taxes was used for roads. In effect, the amount sent to maintain roads out of that $367 could scarcely patch a pothole.

I doubt very highly if you could resurface 13 feet of road for $367. Hot mix asphalt runs $35 to $50 per ton and you have to pay labor on top of that. Heck, fixing potholes cost from $18 per hole (Go Denver!;) ) to $50 each (Overland KS). Taking a happy medium of $36.70 each (math is easier) that's 10 pot holes...not nearly equivalent to a stretch of pavement 22 feet wide, 13 ft long and 3" deep.;)

[donnamb]

Interesting ... although I recall that most health care costs are incurred during the last few years of life. Roughly speaking, if you lead a healthy or unhealthy life, your lifetime health care costs may be close.

But I am relatively unfamiliar with the research and relevant figures. Think of the above as a devil's advocate comment.

-G
I think this is beginning to change as type 2 diabetes begins to affect younger and younger people. It's a very expensive disease.

[genec]

The people who make arguments like that generally have no idea....

Yup, that pretty much covers it. Clueless clods.

[ChipSeal]

CommuterRun- Thank you.

[oilman_15106]

Motorist: "You shouldn't be allowed on the road. You don't pay yada, yada, yada."

CR Reply: "Have you served in the military?" (Most haven't.) "Then why should you be allowed to live in America?"

Motorist: Stammering out some BS.

CR: Cutting off motorist, "Because it's a free nation. You're welcome. Have a nice day."

My response to an idiot on this issue was: "Sir I pay more in state taxes than you make in pay per year". End of story.

[powerhouse]

Does this thread then give rednecks and such people a justification when they yell at us "Get the ---- off the road!" when they pass us by?

[CommuterRun]

I appreciate that ChipSeal.:)

[invisiblehand]

I think this is beginning to change as type 2 diabetes begins to affect younger and younger people. It's a very expensive disease.

Certainly, these statistics are a moving target. And just based on intuition, diseases that affect young people and require lifetime maintenance would be expensive for the individual and society.

[Treker]

What about the 'carbon credits' we may be entitled to by cycling instead of driving, or even the much reduced emission in building a bike Vs a car in the first place? Apparently lowering your emissions these days is worth something if you're big business so why not cyclists?

Oh I love it! Here in Canada, the Kyoto argument is full swing with both sides wildly accusing the other of misinformation. I can hardly wait until I take my next ride on Air Canada and when asked to pay a voluntary fee for a carbon credit to 'offset' the CO2 emissions about to be expelled out the jet's rear end, I'll cheerfully answer, "no, thanks, I rode my bike today!";)

[jimmuter]

I doubt very highly if you could resurface 13 feet of road for $367. Hot mix asphalt runs $35 to $50 per ton and you have to pay labor on top of that. Heck, fixing potholes cost from $18 per hole (Go Denver!;) ) to $50 each (Overland KS). Taking a happy medium of $36.70 each (math is easier) that's 10 pot holes...not nearly equivalent to a stretch of pavement 22 feet wide, 13 ft long and 3" deep.;)

My calculation was assuming the $367 was pooled with other funds (economies of scale) and was based on taking the cost to repave 1 mile of road here, not do spot repairs. ($150K resurfaces 1 mile which is $28.41/foot. $367 / $28.41 = 13 feet roughly). Yes, the $367 on its own does about nothing.