Fifty Plus (50+) - Biking is 15 years of progress.

It is the time for my twice annual double century. It is on WI Limestone Rail to Trails from Reedsburg-Elroy-Sparta-Onalaska to Perot State Park on the Mississippi. It goes through tunnels, over some nice hills, beautiful scenery and lots of food.
15 years ago- I started this with Schwinn Hybrid, grip-twist shifter, 50 PSI tires (lots of flats), street sandals, double saddle bags, 240# body weight. It took 10 hours/each way and I was exhausted.
10 years ago- I upgraded to Trek Multi sport Hybrid, Shimano XT shifter, 80 PSI tires (no flats), SIDI clip-less shoes, still double bags, still 240#, Best time 9 hours and cooked.
5 years ago- Same bike, learned to travel light with one stem mounted Treck bag, dropped to 200# body weight, Best time 8 hours and cooked.
Now, this year- Same bike, use 700 x 28 wheels and 120 PSI tires, 184# body weight, do 50 miles regularly in 3 hours, expect to do 100 miles in 7 hours with stopping time comfortably.

The point of all this? Getting 15 years older does not mean a decline.:D

Are you going this weekend?

Nice progression there. You've certainly gotten your money's worth out of that Trek.

I'm down 16 pounds from where I started. Would love to say it was 25-30 pounds. Can't even imagine dropping the 56 that you have.

Are you going this weekend?

Nice progression there. You've certainly gotten your money's worth out of that Trek.

I'm down 16 pounds from where I started. Would love to say it was 25-30 pounds. Can't even imagine dropping the 56 that you have.

Next one or two weeks weather dependent. Decide last minute and go middle of week where there is no problem with motels.

The Trek is very good, extremely reliable, flexible, can take the fine sand and is very comfortable.

Dropping the 56# took the Cross Country tour. I am already looking forward to the tour next spring.
I like to be able to do the 150 miles/day without a killing effort. That was murder on the first tour. Everything hurt. Neck, hands, a*s, you name it. But I did better than most. Some where in the hospital.

Nice improvement over the years:)

Nice improvement over the years:)

Yes, I am satisfied and want to show others that it is possible. I have a very stressful job and fear I would not be writing here without that program above. At age 45 I had all the symptoms of early health problems.
I started with running but had to give it up because of joint issues. Thank God for biking.
This BF has helped quite a bit.

Will, the story of your progress is very inspirational. Congratulations on making good choices and your persistence through the years.

And, on a hybrid no less! :D

Will, the story of your progress is very inspirational. Congratulations on making good choices and your persistence through the years.

And, on a hybrid no less! :D

Well Yen, there is also a Tandem and a Trek Madone. I love them all, but have only one wife.;) :D

:)
I'm curious about the difference in speed on the 700x28 tires, vs. my 700x40. The narrower tire enables you to cover more distance with less effort... true?

:)
I'm curious about the difference in speed on the 700x28 tires, vs. my 700x40. The narrower tire enables you to cover more distance with less effort... true?

The big difference is 120 PSI compared to 80 or less. There is much less rolling resistance provided the ground is hard enough. That is the issue on Limestone. After or during a heavy rain you loose all the advantage. But it is much faster on asphalt or dry Limestone.

Yes, a narrower tire is faster than a wider tire and slicks are faster than knobby, much faster.
Again, only on hard surfaces. The big tires have their place but kill you on long trips.
See this link below if you are interested.
http://kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

It is the time for my twice annual double century. It is on WI Limestone Rail to Trails from Reedsburg-Elroy-Sparta-Onalaska to Perot State Park on the Mississippi. It goes through tunnels, over some nice hills, beautiful scenery and lots of food.
15 years ago- I started this with Schwinn Hybrid, grip-twist shifter, 50 PSI tires (lots of flats), street sandals, double saddle bags, 240# body weight. It took 10 hours/each way and I was exhausted.
10 years ago- I upgraded to Trek Multi sport Hybrid, Shimano XT shifter, 80 PSI tires (no flats), SIDI clip-less shoes, still double bags, still 240#, Best time 9 hours and cooked.
5 years ago- Same bike, learned to travel light with one stem mounted Treck bag, dropped to 200# body weight, Best time 8 hours and cooked.
Now, this year- Same bike, use 700 x 28 wheels and 120 PSI tires, 184# body weight, do 50 miles regularly in 3 hours, expect to do 100 miles in 7 hours with stopping time comfortably.

The point of all this? Getting 15 years older does not mean a decline.:D

Fabulous accomplishment, Will. Great point about older does not have to mean awfuler. I am beginning to agree with jppe that stopping time is highly over rated. He stops for 3-6 minutes in a century. I'm betting that you can do a 6:30 with a push at the end. Good luck. A wonderful story! Let us know what happens.

Will, sounds scenic so take some pics to post. Have you considered where you'll be when you're 70 at this rate of improvement? You've worked incredibly hard for a long time and done real achievements....lots of admiration here to help you turn those cranks ever harder.

Will, that was a lot of work to get where you are now and know doubt, that it did you good. When I read something's I start analyzing, not all the time ,but I build a picture. I know I'll get better, but as hard as you trained and you started at 45, I don't have a chance to reach the goals that you had. I do wish I started earlier, but I started and that's all that counts at this point. Anyhow I'm happy for you and that you got as far as you did. Some people would probably think we're nuts for what we do at the age we are, but I think they are, for the way they live ( couch potatoes). I know since I started riding and reading some of the things you do, sure inspired me to push harder and it's working, thanks and safe riding to you.

Fabulous accomplishment, Will. Great point about older does not have to mean awfuler. I am beginning to agree with jppe that stopping time is highly over rated. He stops for 3-6 minutes in a century. I'm betting that you can do a 6:30 with a push at the end. Good luck. A wonderful story! Let us know what happens.

I see that you are trying to loose weight also.
My idea is not to do that with food restriction only. Us older guys need the vitamins. Lots of biking allows you to eat and I have lost no muscle tone except upper body. I need to do weight lifting to keep my wife happy. That is not so easy. Biking is more fun.

Will, sounds scenic so take some pics to post. Have you considered where you'll be when you're 70 at this rate of improvement? You've worked incredibly hard for a long time and done real achievements....lots of admiration here to help you turn those cranks ever harder.

CC- This effort with biking pales in comparison with the B.S. I put up with work. That is ridiculous. But I am trapped like a rat and must do what I can do.
To give you some idea: The bosses in Germany pulled a maneuver which would have cost half my people their job. I had to threaten them with immediate resignation (with parachute cost) to get them to back off. Expletive deleted. I lost a few nights sleep over that. real sleep. Woke up at 2:00 AM, no more sleep.

I know of bikers who do more than I can do at 70 and 80. I always look up, never down.

Will, that was a lot of work to get where you are now and know doubt, that it did you good. When I read something's I start analyzing, not all the time ,but I build a picture. I know I'll get better, but as hard as you trained and you started at 45, I don't have a chance to reach the goals that you had. I do wish I started earlier, but I started and that's all that counts at this point. Anyhow I'm happy for you and that you got as far as you did. Some people would probably think we're nuts for what we do at the age we are, but I think they are, for the way they live ( couch potatoes). I know since I started riding and reading some of the things you do, sure inspired me to push harder and it's working, thanks and safe riding to you.

George- You are doing fine. You came a long way. I am obsessive compulsive and know it. I just channel it. In my younger years I did not. That was not good.
Keep at it and never give up. Giving up will have predictable results. It helps if you find joy in what you do. I was going on the bike like hell through a wooded area this week. There was this terrific rainstorm. George, I felt so alive plowing through that at age 65, soaking wet, happy as I can be. Half hour later the sun came out. Birds were singing. I was able to do all that with just my strength. That is living.:D

I shared this discussion with my husband, and we both admire your persistence from where you started. He had a walking partner for a while who just would not push himself beyond the lowest comfort level, and then backed out. He has health problems that could be remedied by just taking a daily walk. I know how hard it is to stick with it -- for me, to lose weight was a minute-by-minute endeavor to avoid eating what I wanted, when I wanted, and to exercise when I didn't feel like it. It was like swimming upstream against a strong current.... it takes a LOT of will to push through that, especially before it becomes a habit and when the body isn't feeling well.

And you did it on a hybrid, no less. ;) (Oh yeh, I already said that. :p )

And George, what counts is that you started. You're an inspiration to me too! Hey, this whole forum is an inspiration to me to see how far many of you have come from where you started.

Yen, what has made me return to this site almost daily for going on 3 years is the mutually encouraging and inspiring stories, attitude, and accomplishments so many have to share. We all admire jppe, Will, and so many others (you, too, DG!), but it's not the degree of achievement and number of miles or elevation, it's simply that people are asserting themselves, "breaking away" from limitations, and following personal dreams.

I see that you are trying to loose weight also.
My idea is not to do that with food restriction only. us older guys need the vitamins. Lots of biking allows you to eat and I have lost no muscle tone except upper body. I need to do weight lifting to keep my wife happy. That is not so easy. Biking is more fun.

A Man after my own heart. I try to eat a bit healthier nowadays- but If I want a full fat breakfast- I have one. Just make certain that the Ingredients are better quality. Biking keeps my weight down too.

Now as to that upper body strength. I have Little upper strength but I have not worried about it. As long as I can lift the bike onto the back of the car for those rides that I cannot ride to- I am happy. Have found though that getting the Tandem onto the roof rack is now easier with two people.

I think we are the product of our upbringing and experiences. My father was exposed to two World Wars and the Great Depression. His solution to cope? Smoking and frequent binge drinking. I had a dear relative living at my house in her last 3-4 years of life. She also was subject to WW2 and suffered nightmares from that. She also tried to escape reality with drinking and smoking. She had poor eating habits also. I have seen her slow decline to kidney failure, heart failure and eventual slow dead - in my house.

This and other observations like that inspire me to do what I do and try to influence others not to stick their heads into sand.

End of my sermon.;) :D
Let us be happy.:)

I think we are the product of our upbringing and experiences. My father was exposed to two World Wars and the Great Depression. His solution to cope? Smoking and frequent binge drinking. I had a dear relative living at my house in her last 3-4 years of life. She also was subject to WW2 and suffered nightmares from that. She also tried to escape reality with drinking and smoking. She had poor eating habits also. I have seen her slow decline to kidney failure, heart failure and eventual slow dead - in my house.

This and other observations like that inspire me to do what I do and try to influence others not to stick their heads into sand.

End of my sermon.;) :D
Let us be happy.:)

Carry on with sermons like that but hopefully you are preaching to the converted.

[QUOTE=Yen].................................................................................................... ............

And you did it on a hybrid, no less. ;) (Oh yeh, I already said that. :p )........................................................................

QUOTE]

Hybrids. This is as good as any thread to say something about Hybrids. The better (more expensive ones) offer shocks front and back, sealed bearings, tilt adjustable bar-stem, can do wide range of tire size, comfortable, reliable, sturdy and not ridiculous expensive. Hybrids are ideal for Limestone Rail to Trails, rough roads and can be used on bumpy paths.
So where is the limitation? Do not try to race against an upper end Road bike unless you are Superman.
My Hybrid weight is about double of the Madone. That will do you in on hills and on acceleration. I checked it. It takes about three times longer to accelerate to 20 MPH.
OTOH the Road bike is not very suitable on trails.

Will, what I'm seriously contemplating is a hybrid of a different design. No suspension but with carbon fork, seat stays, and seat post. Then put on tires with some width and cushioning, like 700x35 with around 65-70 psi in them.

I've tried this type of bike out and it seems to absorb the shock pretty well - between the tires and the cf pieces. The advantage is that this config is about 5-7 pounds lighter.

The lightest bike of this type is the Trek 7.9 FX, which is an all-carbon frame. Comes standard with 700x32 tires. Ultegra-level components. But the list is $2400, I've seen them selling for as low as $1700, but that's not common. The 7.7 FX is one of the carbon fork/stays/post designs.

So instead of your combo of narrower, high-pressure tires paired with suspension on an aluminum frame, these use the shock absorption of larger, lower-pressure tires paired with carbon fiber. My rides have shown them to not quite as smooth as the suspension hybrids on gravel trails, but provide a reasonably smooth ride. And they would certainly be faster, with the reduced weight along with elimination of the energy-absorbing suspension.

Will, what I'm seriously contemplating is a hybrid of a different design. No suspension but with carbon fork, seat stays, and seat post. Then put on tires with some width and cushioning, like 700x35 with around 65-70 psi in them.

I've tried this type of bike out and it seems to absorb the shock pretty well - between the tires and the cf pieces. The advantage is that this config is about 5-7 pounds lighter.

The lightest bike of this type is the Trek 7.9 FX, which is an all-carbon frame. Comes standard with 700x32 tires. Ultegra-level components. But the list is $2400, I've seen them selling for as low as $1700, but that's not common. The 7.7 FX is one of the carbon fork/stays/post designs.

So instead of your combo of narrower, high-pressure tires paired with suspension on an aluminum frame, these use the shock absorption of larger, lower-pressure tires paired with carbon fiber. My rides have shown them to not quite as smooth as the suspension hybrids on gravel trails, but provide a reasonably smooth ride. And they would certainly be faster, with the reduced weight along with elimination of the energy-absorbing suspension.

Tom- If comfort is your goal, the bigger tires will cushion you. I have CF fork on an Aluminum Frame bike. That does not make for a smooth ride.
Warning: If speed is your concern this idea of yours will not work. High pressure narrow tires make a big difference. I did this now on a Tandem going from 45 mm (50 PSI) down to 38 mm (80 PSI) and the Trek Hybrid from 38 mm (80 PSI) to 28 mm (120 PSI).
I am seeing at least a 10% faster speed on both bikes. (probably more than that)
Weight of the bike is less important on the flats. It will show some effect on acceleration but also not that much. Wisconsin has no real hills. The 3% inclines will not make that much difference.
There is another argument to do away with the shocks: For very agressive biking, the shocks will absorb energy. Some Cyclocross type bikes come without shocks for that reason. But they are build for harsh racing and not comfort. I have looked at these for speed but have no illusion that they are comfortable.

Wisconsin does have real hills, hundreds upon hundreds of them. You just don't see them on the rail trails. You'd see them on the Elroy-Sparta ride if they hadn't have made tunnels through the hills. And once you got to New Glarus, if you continued northwest on the back roads, you'd see lots of hills.

I've been surprised by how comfortable the cushier tires & carbon parts combo has been, on some bikes. I've ridden several on gravel paths and roads, and a few of them have yielded smooth rides.

And I think there is a good chance that I could improve speed on such a bike. At least as compared to my present bike, which has both cushier, lower-pressure tires and full suspension. The Fuji bike I'm looking at is 11 pounds lighter than my current bike. It would surprise me if a bike that is 11 pounds lighter, with rigid fork & 700x35 tires, would be no faster than the heavier bike with suspension fork and 700x38 tires. But can't say for sure.

Will, you're great. No kidding, just great. Thanks for showing the way.

It is the time for my twice annual double century. It is on WI Limestone Rail to Trails from Reedsburg-Elroy-Sparta-Onalaska to Perot State Park on the Mississippi. It goes through tunnels, over some nice hills, beautiful scenery and lots of food.
15 years ago- I started this with Schwinn Hybrid, grip-twist shifter, 50 PSI tires (lots of flats), street sandals, double saddle bags, 240# body weight. It took 10 hours/each way and I was exhausted.
10 years ago- I upgraded to Trek Multi sport Hybrid, Shimano XT shifter, 80 PSI tires (no flats), SIDI clip-less shoes, still double bags, still 240#, Best time 9 hours and cooked.
5 years ago- Same bike, learned to travel light with one stem mounted Treck bag, dropped to 200# body weight, Best time 8 hours and cooked.
Now, this year- Same bike, use 700 x 28 wheels and 120 PSI tires, 184# body weight, do 50 miles regularly in 3 hours, expect to do 100 miles in 7 hours with stopping time comfortably.

The point of all this? Getting 15 years older does not mean a decline.:D

Yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about!

Way to set the bar for us young 'uns, Wil!

Nine years ago I puffed and panted on my Specialized Hard Rock up hills that now constitute a warm-up. So much for youth.

Well done! What's next for you on your list of achievements?

Will sets the bar VERY high!!!

Doing 100 miles on rail trails, on a suspension hybrid, in 7 hours. Heck, I think some of the young turk wrenches down at my LBS wouldn't believe it.

I thought about this post on our ride this morning. Part of our ride was a 4-mile climb on a low grade. The first time we tried this 2 or so months ago, I rode in the lowest gear but I had to stop midway just to rest my legs, and my heart was pounding at the top. Today I kept it in the lowest gear until the first stop at a red light halfway up, then moved up a little for the remaining 2 miles. At the top, my heart rate and breathing were very good, slower than last time. I kept thinking about this discussion and just kept plugging along, and looking forward to breezing up this hill a year or more from now.

Oh, and I also thought a lot about different tires!

Will sets the bar VERY high!!!

Doing 100 miles on rail trails, on a suspension hybrid, in 7 hours. Heck, I think some of the young turk wrenches down at my LBS wouldn't believe it.

Well Tom- Today we did the Sugar River trail on a Tandem. Important point it was with 80 PSI 38 mm tires. Against the wind we averaged 16.5 MPH. With the wind we did not do much work and peaked at 25 MPH. Our average was so good I am embarrassed to report it. It was one of our best days pushing 66 of age.

I am trying to talk my wife into doing Reedsburg to Perot state park on the Mississippi on a Tandem in one day. It will be a supreme achievement if I can get her to do that.

I thought about this post on our ride this morning. Part of our ride was a 4-mile climb on a low grade. The first time we tried this 2 or so months ago, I rode in the lowest gear but I had to stop midway just to rest my legs, and my heart was pounding at the top. Today I kept it in the lowest gear until the first stop at a red light halfway up, then moved up a little for the remaining 2 miles. At the top, my heart rate and breathing were very good, slower than last time. I kept thinking about this discussion and just kept plugging along, and looking forward to breezing up this hill a year or more from now.

Yen- All I can say, it took a lot of time and single minded dedication.:D
What are the alternatives?:rolleyes:

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Well done! What's next for you on your list of achievements?

My next goal is another Cross America Fast South SAG supported bike Tour next April. This is the reason why I am driven to find maximum average speed. The tour requires several days with over 150 miles and they do have hills. To be able to do that in reasonable time and comfort requires an average speed of 100 miles in 6 hours plus minimum time for stops. This tour is with America By Bicycle. There are tours who go faster than that but I am not certain that I can do that. I hear of one tour who does the 3000 miles in 17 days. Hmmmmm.....?:( :eek: There is always another challenge.

Doing my first century next Saturday. You're an inspiration!

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

I did an unofficial time trial today on Sugar River Trail. Limestone, bumpy, many cross roads)
The bike was the Trek Hybrid, 38#, 700 x 28, 120 PSI tires.
Average speed for round trip of 46 miles was 17.3 MPH or 2:40 hrs.
Based on above calculator that burns 1225 kcal.
And requires 134 watts of power.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I put in 18# for my Trek Madone.
According to the calculator and assuming the same 134 watts of power:
You get an speed increase to 17.5 MPH average.
You will burn only 1211 Kcal
And do the trip in 2:38 hrs.
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I should mention that both bikes are set up the same with the aerobars below the saddle elevation.
Both bikes fit me perfectly. The only difference is the 20#. Apparently and according to Kreuzotter, that 20# does not matter much on level ground.
Next I will take the Madone on this trail and see if I can beat above times. I shall let you guys know the results. I am curious also and will give it my best effort.
There can be no rain. The Madone has 700 x 23 tires and the 28 mm do not fit in the fork.

I look forward to your next report.

I rode a bit on the Military Ridge Trail this afternoon. Perfect day. Lots of people out.

PS Did you mean to write that you have 700x28 tires on the 7700?

I look forward to your next report.

I rode a bit on the Military Ridge Trail this afternoon. Perfect day. Lots of people out.

PS Did you mean to write that you have 700x28 tires on the 7700?

Yes Tom, you are correct. Typo and now corrected.
I had a lot of fun today. The 46 miles on aerobars. I was glad for the shock absorber under the saddle. You know there is some sensitive and valuable equipment on that saddle which will take more of a beating on the Madone. Yes, I will report back on that. perhaps Tuesday or Wednesday.
Will

I see that you are trying to loose weight also.
My idea is not to do that with food restriction only. Us older guys need the vitamins. Lots of biking allows you to eat and I have lost no muscle tone except upper body. I need to do weight lifting to keep my wife happy. That is not so easy. Biking is more fun.
How right you are!! I just bought a 15 pound barbell and am keeping it next to the computer to do curls, extensions, raises and presses as I read 50+....might as well do something worthwhile as I sit here.

I made a test ride Sunday and Today (Just got back).
My best effort with 38# Trek 7700 Hybrid 28 mm tires was 2:38 hr. (All out effort, I do not want to do it again that fast)
My best effort with 18# Trek Madone 23 mm tires was 2:26 hr. (It was OK, I can repeat that again)

The lighter weight is very important if you set a average speed of say 19 MPH. Every time I slip below that speed, I get off the saddle and power up over 20 MPH. That is not so doable with a heavier bike. The light bike responds much better. It is good if your body weight is lower also (of course).

Tom Bombadil is right and I was wrong. The heavy shocks on a Hybrid are not justifiable. The full CF bike cushions the trail nicely. Not a problem. The Madone has room for only 25 mm tires. No good in rain and mud. I will have to look at a CF Cyclocross bike soon.:(:D

Even Tom Bombadil is surprised that you found the full carbon bike ride fine on 700x23 tires. I'm looking at a bike with carbon fork & stays in combination with 700x32 or 700x35 tires. When I rode a Gary Fisher Mendota that had a carbon fork with the rest being aluminum with 700x32 tires on a gravel trail, it was fairly smooth. And a Specialized Globe Elite with carbon fork, stays, and seat post, with 700x42 tires was downright cushy on gravel.

So you turned it in 2:26, eh? The day I can do that trail in 4 hours, I will jump for joy.

Considering your time on the Madone, I must say I am impressed even more by the time you threw down on the 7700 hybrid.

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Considering your time on the Madone, I must say I am impressed even more by the time you threw down on the 7700 hybrid.

Yeah, but I was so wound up that I could not get to sleep until 2:00 AM. That is no good.
The ride on the Madone was much more civilized.
To give you good info I repeat: The comfort on the Madone was much better than expected. The CF frame and the Terry Liberator Gellissimo saddle are realy dampening the bumps. No need for shocks.
But need bigger tires if it rains.:)

Just think what the next 15 years will be like. That is great progress.

On weight I have managed to drop from 205 to 185 which I am pretty happy about but still a ways to go. My wife showed up last night with a new bathroom scale she bought, you know the kind that measures body fat through electrical resistance or some such thing. I tried that out, now I have a lot more to work on. Let's just say I don't compare very favorably with Michael Rassmusen.