Pacific Northwest - STP - Let's hear all your thoughts from your ride.

Wow, it sounds like Cowlitz County really isn't fond of STP (http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/07/16/area_news/news17.txt). :eek:

Who says rednecks are only in the south. what a bunch of idiots. I've heard comments like this from people I work around they think being delayed 30 seconds because of a couple of bike riders is worse than sitting on the old narrows bridge for 40 minutes

Wow, it sounds like Cowlitz County really isn't fond of STP (http://www.tdn.com/articles/2007/07/16/area_news/news17.txt). :eek:


This one is obviously upset, having typed the entire comment in caps . . .


" I AM VERY SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT THE RIDER. BUT THE ROAD IS FOR CARS TO DRIVE ON NOT FOR BIKES TO BE ON GET OFF THE ROADS AND YOU WONT BE HURT. JUST LIKE THEM RIDING ON WESTSIDE HIGHWAY NOW COME ON WHAT ARE THEY ASKING FOR. "

Ok, I'll admit that I blew a stop sign or two - but ONLY after slowing to make sure they were completely clear of cars. If there was a car stopped or even approaching, I'd slow and stop and follow the whoever-gets-there-first right of way. While I agree that riding 3+ abreast and taking up an entire lane might be frustrating for drivers (not sure what the WA/OR state law is, but here in CA the limit is 2 abreast), to say that riders are "asking for it" is a very insensitive and ignorant comment. I'm sure the folks over at advocacy/safety have more to say about this, but I just wanted to comment that the motorists I encountered personally on my ride were more than friendly, oftentimes yielding to large groups of riders patiently and offering their support through a thumbs-up or congratulatory yell.

Yikes!! Next years STP should be interesting, maybe we should share this with the Governor's Office. It would be nice to take the STP off highway 30, not sure if there is an alternative that the rednecks would tolerate.

It's interesting because other counties along the route seem to welcome STP (and the money they make off the cyclists). I didn't realize Cowlitz County was so economically prosperous that it doesn't matter to them about the revenue. :rolleyes: Perhaps someone ought to write the county government and see what they think.

If I were a resident there, one thing I would be pretty unhappy about is the garbage. I can't say that I would have good feelings about a bunch of people who treat my community like a trash dump.

I cant believe that some people want to tax bikes. Then they will have to pay for their kids to ride their bikes too. Then as their lil fingers get chubby from playing vid games we can cry in remembrance of the day when it was free to be self sufficient. I am just freaked out about their attitudes. I may join critical mass now. Well things are not that bad yet but close.
V

I rode the two day this year. I read the comments on the "Cowlitz" site, and I have to say what stands out to me is the sheer number of frustrated drivers who took the time to post their point of view. I do not think it is in any way helpful to categorize these folks as "rednecks" or dismiss their thoughts as backward or unimportant. The best thing we can do is try harder next year to be role models for the small number of cyclists who are stretching the laws and causing this very negative reaction. Insulting or dismissing the drivers and citizens of that part of Washington will not result in a safer ride.

..........................

If I were a resident there, one thing I would be pretty unhappy about is the garbage. I can't say that I would have good feelings about a bunch of people who treat my community like a trash dump.

I am a resident here and really get a little upset at the name calling (redneck) on this board. I don't ride STP, or any other large group rides. I used to but what drove me away from it was the selfish attitudes of a small number of my fellow cyclists. I do, however, live in Columbia County and get to share my community with STP (and Hood to Coast) every year and I gotta tell you, folks throwing trash on the road and 30-40 rider pace lines running the red light at Havlik Drive as I and a couple dozen others wait (without honking or yelling) through several green lights does not make a good impression. If this is the effect on a long time cyclist, how do you think it looks to a non cyclist?

I'm sure the local merchants would miss the income, but if STP riders are so inclined, I think it would be best to use the Washington side of the river. It could be sited on less heavily used roads and there really is no alternative to highway 30 on the Oregon side either for cyclists or those who might want to avoid them. Crossing the river is a problem for both cyclists and motorists on the Lewis and Clark bridge and would be on the I-5 or Glenn Jackson as well... flip a coin.

I ride more miles on highway 30 in a year than the typical STP rider. I have very few close calls from inattentive motorists... far fewer than in a I had in Portland, when I lived there. I have had no (zero, none) clashes with fat, pickup driving, scum-of-the earth rednecks. On a typical daily ride, folks wave and smile, give me enough room, yield the right of way when necessary and just generally treat me with respect, as I do them... even the evil SUV drivers, who look absolutely normal when I see them in the grocery store.

I am a resident here and really get a little upset at the name calling (redneck) on this board.
I ride more miles on highway 30 in a year than the typical STP rider. I have very few close calls from inattentive motorists... far fewer than in a I had in Portland, when I lived there. I have had no (zero, none) clashes with fat, pickup driving, scum-of-the earth rednecks. On a typical daily ride, folks wave and smile, give me enough room, yield the right of way when necessary and just generally treat me with respect, as I do them... even the evil SUV drivers, who look absolutely normal when I see them in the grocery store.

I read all of those notes posted on the newspaper site that Donna linked, and the poison was dripping out and on to my keyboard, the comments and name calling here seemed VERY restrained by comparison. With all of the needless car - bike deaths this year, seeing such a collection of opinion that is my worst cycling fear (people like those writing those notes), sends chills down my spine.

As far as trash is concerned, I rode STP last year, and yes there is trash along highway 30 from the bridge to Portland. Was it trash from cyclist? What I saw and maneuvered around was two by fours, tree bark, car hub caps, bolts and nuts, gravel and rocks, shoes, underpants, car parts, broken glass bottles, fast food bags and drink cups. There must have been a few powerbar wrappers there too, and water bottles jarred out of the cage when riders hit 2X4's rather than pull out into the traffic lane.

My impression from last years STP was that there were too many riders, and I encountered a few real _____'s among the riders, but over all it was a safe and good group of people, excited to be a part of this fun event. For the people of that area to spit such venom at us as a group is rude and characteristic of this "talk radio" culture of hate we seem to be developing in our country. That is sad!

I read all of those notes posted on the newspaper site that Donna linked, and the poison was dripping out and on to my keyboard, the comments and name calling here seemed VERY restrained by comparison. With all of the needless car - bike deaths this year, seeing such a collection of opinion that is my worst cycling fear (people like those writing those notes), sends chills down my spine.

As far as trash is concerned, I rode STP last year, and yes there is trash along highway 30 from the bridge to Portland. Was it trash from cyclist? What I saw and maneuvered around was two by fours, tree bark, car hub caps, bolts and nuts, gravel and rocks, shoes, underpants, car parts, broken glass bottles, fast food bags and drink cups. There must have been a few powerbar wrappers there too, and water bottles jarred out of the cage when riders hit 2X4's rather than pull out into the traffic lane.

My impression from last years STP was that there were too many riders, and I encountered a few real _____'s among the riders, but over all it was a safe and good group of people, excited to be a part of this fun event. For the people of that area to spit such venom at us as a group is rude and characteristic of this "talk radio" culture of hate we seem to be developing in our country. That is sad!

I am with Shifty on this and many other subjects. Most of the time we go out past the white line is because of all the crap that is dislodged there by vehicles. That being said there were fewer unconsciously unconscious riders then conscious ones.
V

Someone on the Bike Portland site made an observation that in contrast to STP, Cycle Oregon is welcomed by small towns in Oregon. Has anyone here done both? What's different?

Cycle Oregon pumps GIANT amounts of cash into the locales they visit, GIANT! The revenue from 9000 riders riding "through" a small town as opposed to 900 riders stopping and spending the night in a small town is a mere pittance.
Cycle Oregon is intelligent enough to understand that without the 100% cooperation of small towns their event would not and could not happen.
Anyone who has not ridden Cycle Oregon needs to give it a try, you'll be amazed at how these numerous small towns and surrounding communities open their hearts and arms for each and every cyclist. Small communities around Oregon actually contact Cycle Oregon asking the event to visit their towns.

Cascade Bike Club needs to wake up and wake up quick. If they don't institute some event/community damage control quickly I think STP is in danger of being an "event of the past".

I ride 1000s of miles a year and since 1974 have over 40,000miles in organized century rides alone. In all these miles I'll always say that the number of stupid cyclists who totally disregard traffic laws is a very small percentage, less than 5% perhaps if not smaller. As a comparision, how many drivers do any of us know who follow the posted speed limits exactly? Do we know anyone who drives the speed limit other than maybe an occasional blue hair or tourist. How many drivers drive over or past the stop sign/stop line/crosswalk before stopping putting the front of their car immediately out into the lane? This happens to me everydaynot once a year like STP but every single freakin' day. When a community is as vocal as Columbia/Cowlitz county you can bet that for every 1 letter we all just read there are at least 10 or folks who feel the same way and didn't write a letter. That's a very scary thought for those of us who ride STP next year, think about it, one of those writers could be right behind you as you roll across the bridge and onto highway 30. Not a pleasant thought is it.

Finally, I think their thoughts and attitudes toward cyclists are 99% unfounded however, remember folks, perception ISreality and when someone just got flipped off by a cyclist and sees 2 riders side by side those 2 become 7 riders taking over the lane. Not true but their skewed perception ISis reality unforunately.

Less than a month ago my bike club lost one of our favorite members and a friend of mine to a driver who was to impatienct to wait 15 to 30 seconds before passing. She got off with a cash fine. What does that tell you? That angry drivers who hate cyclists basically have a "hunting lincense" for bike riders. They know that if they hit us, kill us or maim us they have an immediate get out of jail free card called "cash". This woman had 3 moving violations as well as killing an innocent father, grandfather and husband and onlly paid $1000 and walked away scot free.

Unfortunately STP has no options other than over the bridge and finish on Hwy 30 if it is to remain Seattle to Portland, the question is, can and will Cascade Bike Club make an effort to "quiet the storm" of angry drivers and residents...

Thanks for the long read.

KRhea
PortlandVelo.net

Thank you for posting your perspective, KRhea, and helping me understand about Cycle Oregon. When longtime cyclists like you and Dogbait are saying there is a problem, I pay attention. I may never ride STP or Cycle Oregon, but I'm a bike commuter in Portland who lives with no car. Some people who drive the roads in Cowlitz and Columbia Counties also commute to work in downtown Portland. Right or wrong, motorists who develop a negative impression of cyclists because of STP affect me every day of my life. STP and its riders come and go from our area, but those attitudes are not easy to get rid of once they develop. I'm not a member of any cycling club, but I'm thinking about writing a letter to Cascade all the same. Do you have an opinion about the kinds of gestures/dialogue that could help?

We're all so sorry about Tim.

I don't think I would do the ride again... liked the challenge of doing it in one day but it just wasn't a memorable experience. I expected the experience of the event to match its reputation as one of the country's premier cycling events. Cascade does a good job in putting on Flying Wheels but the logistics and planning are far more complicated for STP, so why not step it up a notch and really make STP a truely unique experience. Riding from Seattle To Portland should no longer be the sole attration.

While I applaud Cascade for taking on the logistics of such a huge event, I completely agree that I would NOT do this ride again, nor would I recommend it to my friends. The experience definitely didn't match the reputation of the event. The route was pretty lousy - especially the last 50-60 miles where I got a splitting headache from all the traffic noise. It was so loud and obnoxious that I couldn't have a conversation with the Captain of our Tandem! The food stops were pitiful, especially considering the entry fee. Pretty much nothing except fruit, dry pb&j sandwiches (the one I took at the second rest stop had mold on the bread, and less than a teaspoonful of peanut butter and jelly), bagels and cookies. Except for the "lunch" stop where we were alotted ONE Clif Bar, there was NO food to stuff in pockets for eating along the way. No soda or gatorade, unless you wanted to PAY extra for it at the over-priced extra stops. Riding 200 miles in a day is hard enough, without the added difficulty of bonking from lack of nutrition. Good thing I carried at least a few Clif Shot BlokJs and Gus with me...

It could have, and should have, been so so much better - and we were super disappointed. We did, in spite of our complaints, finish under 12 hours, with a ride time of about 10 hours 45 minutes.

While I applaud Cascade for taking on the logistics of such a huge event, I completely agree that I would NOT do this ride again, nor would I recommend it to my friends. The experience definitely didn't match the reputation of the event. The route was pretty lousy - especially the last 50-60 miles where I got a splitting headache from all the traffic noise. It was so loud and obnoxious that I couldn't have a conversation with the Captain of our Tandem! The food stops were pitiful, especially considering the entry fee. Pretty much nothing except fruit, dry pb&j sandwiches (the one I took at the second rest stop had mold on the bread, and less than a teaspoonful of peanut butter and jelly), bagels and cookies. Except for the "lunch" stop where we were alotted ONE Clif Bar, there was NO food to stuff in pockets for eating along the way. No soda or gatorade, unless you wanted to PAY extra for it at the over-priced extra stops. Riding 200 miles in a day is hard enough, without the added difficulty of bonking from lack of nutrition. Good thing I carried at least a few Clif Shot BlokJs and Gus with me...

It could have, and should have, been so so much better - and we were super disappointed. We did, in spite of our complaints, finish under 12 hours, with a ride time of about 10 hours 45 minutes.


did we go on the same ride? what about the fabulous food stop in Centralia where we were greeted by ladies offering ice cream bars? The one day rider food tent there had tons of food to stuff in pockets - all free and no restrictions. Did you miss it? and the stop couple hours later that had Whole Foods chicken wraps? I know for 2 day riders and tail end day 1 riders the quantities got reduced - but with your time you should have been at front edge of crowd and there was appropriate food available. At the soip in Vader which was not STP (the one just after the train tracks) there was excellent banana bread - free or I left $1 in the voluntary donation pot. Now as to noise - maybe you are more sensitive than others. or use to pristine country roads. But this ride could not be categorized as noisy - even the last stretch. St. Helens in Oregon is positively pastoral. Hot - yes. Boring - yes. Noisy - hmmmm.

Just read this entire thread. I just turned 60 and recently started riding more seriously, hoping to do the 2-day STP next year. All of the comments, both positive and negative were helpful, especially Merlinman's with regard to what he ate and used to combat dehydration. I'll be looking elsewhere in the forum for more advice with regard to food, pacelines, bikes (need a new one), etc. Feel free to email me if you have advice.

You'll do fine if you train for it. I would suggest doing the Cascafe training rides or find a partner to do STP with you so you keep each other motivated. It also helps when you are not in pacelines to have someone that you can make your own 2 person pace line.

Vast majority of STP riders are safe, law abiding cyclists. There are a few "teams" and others engaged in unsafe pacelines usually involving passing, etc. These riders and those who try to keep up with them can ruin a great ride. I did RSVP this year and it is a MUCH better ride. About a fifth the size, 2-day only, with MUCH better scenery and more welcoming towns along the way. Also a safer ride in general with few annoying unsafe team pacelines.

The best part is Canadians rock!

Did the Headwaters this past weekend, the 65, not the Century, and didn't feel too worse for wear at the end, so I think with more organized rides and a better bike I'll be able to do the STP. Thanks Woodinville for the advice. I have two or three friends in my age group tentatively planning to do the STP, so I should be able to hook up with at least one of them. And PedalMasher, the RSVP sounds good, will check that out...will search for their website