erader
07-15-07, 02:31 PM
he worked his ass off for vino today and even waited for him and that's more that vino would have done if the roles were reversed :eek: .
ed rader
ed rader
Professional Cycling - gotta hand it to kloden.........
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Zauber
07-15-07, 02:58 PM
Kloden looked a lot stronger to me. He lost a lot of time near the finish dropping back for Vino.
I think Kloden is Astana's best shot at the overall, and casting him in the support role is reducing the team's chances to win it.
I think Kloden is Astana's best shot at the overall, and casting him in the support role is reducing the team's chances to win it.
fixiechick
07-15-07, 03:00 PM
he worked his ass off for vino today and even waited for him and that's more that vino would have done if the roles were reversed :eek: .
ed rader
Umm...BS. When Vino was on T-Mob he helped out all of his team mates, even when not told to. He was Zabel's lead-out man for years and totally dedicated to the team. Even when he was on his way to the podium in 2003 he was acting as domestique and fetching bottles. If the roles were reversed, Vino would have helped out Klodi in a heartbeat just like Klodi did today.
ed rader
Umm...BS. When Vino was on T-Mob he helped out all of his team mates, even when not told to. He was Zabel's lead-out man for years and totally dedicated to the team. Even when he was on his way to the podium in 2003 he was acting as domestique and fetching bottles. If the roles were reversed, Vino would have helped out Klodi in a heartbeat just like Klodi did today.
Ryanf
07-15-07, 03:01 PM
I love Kloden. Also very happy Mayo is finally on form.
Randomus
07-15-07, 03:13 PM
I agree with fixiechick on this issue:
Umm...BS. When Vino was on T-Mob he helped out all of his team mates, even when not told to. He was Zabel's lead-out man for years and totally dedicated to the team. Even when he was on his way to the podium in 2003 he was acting as domestique and fetching bottles. If the roles were reversed, Vino would have helped out Klodi in a heartbeat just like Klodi did today. Let me add that the tour is still early so, the people who have written Vino completely off may be making a foolish mistake.
Umm...BS. When Vino was on T-Mob he helped out all of his team mates, even when not told to. He was Zabel's lead-out man for years and totally dedicated to the team. Even when he was on his way to the podium in 2003 he was acting as domestique and fetching bottles. If the roles were reversed, Vino would have helped out Klodi in a heartbeat just like Klodi did today. Let me add that the tour is still early so, the people who have written Vino completely off may be making a foolish mistake.
TRaffic Jammer
07-15-07, 03:21 PM
Kloden did as he was supposed to, which in turn will work out for him in the future. His stock went up. I hope V starts to feel better.
erader
07-15-07, 03:57 PM
Kloden did as he was supposed to, which in turn will work out for him in the future. His stock went up. I hope V starts to feel better.
how so? kloden is the stronger of the two...waiting for vino means neither have a shot this year !
we'll see if vino is called upon to support kloden in the pyrenees :eek: !
ed rader
how so? kloden is the stronger of the two...waiting for vino means neither have a shot this year !
we'll see if vino is called upon to support kloden in the pyrenees :eek: !
ed rader
biffstephens
07-15-07, 04:01 PM
I think when Vino believes he does not have a chance to win he will give the lead to Kloden. I think Vino is pretty trust worthy, I think all of his team mates would agree with that as well. I have never heard someone say a cross statement about him..
roadgator
07-15-07, 04:24 PM
Kloden looked a lot stronger to me. He lost a lot of time near the finish dropping back for Vino.
I think Kloden is Astana's best shot at the overall, and casting him in the support role is reducing the team's chances to win it.
Those are my thoughts too. I just don't know what the guy is thinking kissing Vino's ass when he could certainly get on the podium again himself.
Call him noble if you want, but i think kloden just doesn't have the balls to grab the race by the scruff of the neck or lead a team. Even if he couldn't see the big picture himself, the management should have had him bridge up and ride with Kashekin. Vino's too questionable to waste an asset like Kloden on right now, thats that Salvodeli and the rest of the squad are for
I think Kloden is Astana's best shot at the overall, and casting him in the support role is reducing the team's chances to win it.
Those are my thoughts too. I just don't know what the guy is thinking kissing Vino's ass when he could certainly get on the podium again himself.
Call him noble if you want, but i think kloden just doesn't have the balls to grab the race by the scruff of the neck or lead a team. Even if he couldn't see the big picture himself, the management should have had him bridge up and ride with Kashekin. Vino's too questionable to waste an asset like Kloden on right now, thats that Salvodeli and the rest of the squad are for
Randomus
07-15-07, 04:41 PM
Vino's too questionable to waste an asset like Kloden on right now, thats that Salvodeli and the rest of the squad are for But don't you think it's too early in the tour for Astana to fold its hand with Vino? :fight:
roadgator
07-15-07, 04:52 PM
No, but i dont think they should handicap kloden in the mean time either.
If Vino cant get back on form, Kloden could still win it all for the team. but not if he gives up gobs of time towing Vino around.
And remember that Vino is a Kazack rider on a Kazack team. Patriotism might make them much slower to hand the reigns over to a German (or even let him ride for himself) than strategy itself would. At which point it could be too late for Astana to make anything of the tour.
there are 7 men left who can still ride for Vino. Besides, Kashekin needs to repay the favor for all Vino did in the Duaphine. If anyone owes Vino a tow, its him.
If Vino cant get back on form, Kloden could still win it all for the team. but not if he gives up gobs of time towing Vino around.
And remember that Vino is a Kazack rider on a Kazack team. Patriotism might make them much slower to hand the reigns over to a German (or even let him ride for himself) than strategy itself would. At which point it could be too late for Astana to make anything of the tour.
there are 7 men left who can still ride for Vino. Besides, Kashekin needs to repay the favor for all Vino did in the Duaphine. If anyone owes Vino a tow, its him.
fixiechick
07-15-07, 05:07 PM
And remember that Vino is a Kazack rider on a Kazack team.
Unofficially, yeah. Technically Swiss tho ;)
I don't think nationalism is an issue. I think they're just trying to stick with the plan as much as possible. The team was built around Vino, who was long overdue for this kind of faithful support (he definitely didn't get it on T-Mobile). Why let it go down the drain without a fight? I have a ton of respect for Klodi. I don't think he's kissing anyone's ass. He knew what he was signing up for when he joined the team.
Unofficially, yeah. Technically Swiss tho ;)
I don't think nationalism is an issue. I think they're just trying to stick with the plan as much as possible. The team was built around Vino, who was long overdue for this kind of faithful support (he definitely didn't get it on T-Mobile). Why let it go down the drain without a fight? I have a ton of respect for Klodi. I don't think he's kissing anyone's ass. He knew what he was signing up for when he joined the team.
Hornbiker
07-15-07, 06:11 PM
I have a ton of respect for Klodi. I don't think he's kissing anyone's ass. He knew what he was signing up for when he joined the team.
All respect to Kloeden---I'm sure the last thing he wanted to do was lose time towing Vino, but he did it. As for knowing what he was signing up for though...I don't know about that. Kloeden and Vino have both stated more than once that whoever was stronger in the mountains would be the leader, and the other would ride for him. Vino was the first bet, but with him thoroughly dropped and having Kloeden wait for him today (and therefore give up time when Kloeden looked strong) seems to me to go against that agreement. I do think it's too early to write off Vino, but I'm wondering if his problems today were due to the crash injuries or to his climbing ability in general. After watching him for some years now, he's never impressed me in the mountains. He hangs tough for awhile, but of the favorites he seldom was strong and in the mix for the full climb.
I think better tactics would have been to let Kloeden go ahead and Vino could have come in on his own. It wasn't that far to the finish, so he should have been fine. Having Kloeden wait for him harmed Astana's chances for both of them instead of just Vino. But time will tell.
From what I've seen, Kloeden has always been a better climber and time trialist. He is only lacking (supposedly) in the killer instinct, but he's always been working for someone else---at least until last year, when he was thrust into the leader role less than 24 hours ahead of the Tour. He probably wasn't prepared for that mentally or physically. I think the guy just hasn't had a chance to show what he's made of yet. If Vino can't pull it off this year, I hope he calls it soon enough to give Kloeden a shot at it, instead of blowing his chances too.
All respect to Kloeden---I'm sure the last thing he wanted to do was lose time towing Vino, but he did it. As for knowing what he was signing up for though...I don't know about that. Kloeden and Vino have both stated more than once that whoever was stronger in the mountains would be the leader, and the other would ride for him. Vino was the first bet, but with him thoroughly dropped and having Kloeden wait for him today (and therefore give up time when Kloeden looked strong) seems to me to go against that agreement. I do think it's too early to write off Vino, but I'm wondering if his problems today were due to the crash injuries or to his climbing ability in general. After watching him for some years now, he's never impressed me in the mountains. He hangs tough for awhile, but of the favorites he seldom was strong and in the mix for the full climb.
I think better tactics would have been to let Kloeden go ahead and Vino could have come in on his own. It wasn't that far to the finish, so he should have been fine. Having Kloeden wait for him harmed Astana's chances for both of them instead of just Vino. But time will tell.
From what I've seen, Kloeden has always been a better climber and time trialist. He is only lacking (supposedly) in the killer instinct, but he's always been working for someone else---at least until last year, when he was thrust into the leader role less than 24 hours ahead of the Tour. He probably wasn't prepared for that mentally or physically. I think the guy just hasn't had a chance to show what he's made of yet. If Vino can't pull it off this year, I hope he calls it soon enough to give Kloeden a shot at it, instead of blowing his chances too.
2wheeled
07-15-07, 06:56 PM
No, but i dont think they should handicap kloden in the mean time either.
If Vino cant get back on form, Kloden could still win it all for the team. but not if he gives up gobs of time towing Vino around.
And remember that Vino is a Kazack rider on a Kazack team. Patriotism might make them much slower to hand the reigns over to a German (or even let him ride for himself) than strategy itself would. At which point it could be too late for Astana to make anything of the tour.
there are 7 men left who can still ride for Vino. Besides, Kashekin needs to repay the favor for all Vino did in the Duaphine. If anyone owes Vino a tow, its him.
Excellent points.
I think Vino is a fabulous rider and I believe he will come back to gives us fireworks, but to sacrifice to highest GC spot of all the contenders is simply not smart.
If Vino cant get back on form, Kloden could still win it all for the team. but not if he gives up gobs of time towing Vino around.
And remember that Vino is a Kazack rider on a Kazack team. Patriotism might make them much slower to hand the reigns over to a German (or even let him ride for himself) than strategy itself would. At which point it could be too late for Astana to make anything of the tour.
there are 7 men left who can still ride for Vino. Besides, Kashekin needs to repay the favor for all Vino did in the Duaphine. If anyone owes Vino a tow, its him.
Excellent points.
I think Vino is a fabulous rider and I believe he will come back to gives us fireworks, but to sacrifice to highest GC spot of all the contenders is simply not smart.
SaintAndrew
07-15-07, 10:57 PM
i totally agree. IMO kloden is THE most able GCer in the the world today, but for some reason resists the leader role like the clap. i find it completely idiotic that he signed on as (let's face it) a super-domestique at astana, and even more dumb that any other team didn't throw enough money at him to make him have to become a leader. and poop an a', he's on form.
ultraman6970
07-15-07, 11:14 PM
+1 with all of you guys.
OrionKhan
07-15-07, 11:51 PM
Unofficially, yeah. Technically Swiss tho ;)
I don't think nationalism is an issue. I think they're just trying to stick with the plan as much as possible. The team was built around Vino, who was long overdue for this kind of faithful support (he definitely didn't get it on T-Mobile). Why let it go down the drain without a fight? I have a ton of respect for Klodi. I don't think he's kissing anyone's ass. He knew what he was signing up for when he joined the team.
Really now. If nationalism isn't an issue, why would they send back the guy who's higher in the GC as opposed to Kashechkin? Kloden and Kashechkin were up ahead in the same group. But they sent the higher GC guy back to pull for Vino. Dumb tactics. Nationalism is about the only explanation that makes sense. Send the German back to pull for the Kazack rider and leave the other Kazack up front. If they left Kloden up there, then he problably finishes well enough to be in 3rd. At worst, he's still in the mix with Mayo and Valverde.
There are a lot of Vino fan boys out there that think he's just going to go on the attack and fix everything. Remember, he's the #1 man on his team now. The other teams aren't going to let him just break away like he's done before. He ain't gonna catch anyone by surprise. Any move he makes is going to be marked by all of the other GC contenders. He's a good climber, but not good enough to ride the big climbers off of his wheel to make up minutes of time in the mountains.
Now I don't think they should just like Vino flounder, but to sacrifice Kloden over Kashechkin at this point is dumb. Kloden is clearly riding better than anyone on that team at this point. Astana's team director is either dumb or he's pushing the Kazack riders on a Kazack team. What other explanation is there?
I don't think nationalism is an issue. I think they're just trying to stick with the plan as much as possible. The team was built around Vino, who was long overdue for this kind of faithful support (he definitely didn't get it on T-Mobile). Why let it go down the drain without a fight? I have a ton of respect for Klodi. I don't think he's kissing anyone's ass. He knew what he was signing up for when he joined the team.
Really now. If nationalism isn't an issue, why would they send back the guy who's higher in the GC as opposed to Kashechkin? Kloden and Kashechkin were up ahead in the same group. But they sent the higher GC guy back to pull for Vino. Dumb tactics. Nationalism is about the only explanation that makes sense. Send the German back to pull for the Kazack rider and leave the other Kazack up front. If they left Kloden up there, then he problably finishes well enough to be in 3rd. At worst, he's still in the mix with Mayo and Valverde.
There are a lot of Vino fan boys out there that think he's just going to go on the attack and fix everything. Remember, he's the #1 man on his team now. The other teams aren't going to let him just break away like he's done before. He ain't gonna catch anyone by surprise. Any move he makes is going to be marked by all of the other GC contenders. He's a good climber, but not good enough to ride the big climbers off of his wheel to make up minutes of time in the mountains.
Now I don't think they should just like Vino flounder, but to sacrifice Kloden over Kashechkin at this point is dumb. Kloden is clearly riding better than anyone on that team at this point. Astana's team director is either dumb or he's pushing the Kazack riders on a Kazack team. What other explanation is there?
adamastor
07-16-07, 12:21 AM
Really now. If nationalism isn't an issue, why would they send back the guy who's higher in the GC as opposed to Kashechkin? Kloden and Kashechkin were up ahead in the same group. But they sent the higher GC guy back to pull for Vino. Dumb tactics. Nationalism is about the only explanation that makes sense. Send the German back to pull for the Kazack rider and leave the other Kazack up front. If they left Kloden up there, then he problably finishes well enough to be in 3rd. At worst, he's still in the mix with Mayo and Valverde.
There are a lot of Vino fan boys out there that think he's just going to go on the attack and fix everything. Remember, he's the #1 man on his team now. The other teams aren't going to let him just break away like he's done before. He ain't gonna catch anyone by surprise. Any move he makes is going to be marked by all of the other GC contenders. He's a good climber, but not good enough to ride the big climbers off of his wheel to make up minutes of time in the mountains.
Now I don't think they should just like Vino flounder, but to sacrifice Kloden over Kashechkin at this point is dumb. Kloden is clearly riding better than anyone on that team at this point. Astana's team director is either dumb or he's pushing the Kazack riders on a Kazack team. What other explanation is there?
Let's just fantasize here:
explanation 1: Kloden's injury is worse than expected. Astana doesn't know if he'll make it to the end of TDF. So let's decide to sacrifice Kloden to help Vino get on safely to the rest day.
explanation 2: Astana --> kazach team --> lots of money --> needs/wants a kazach winner. Period.
There are a lot of Vino fan boys out there that think he's just going to go on the attack and fix everything. Remember, he's the #1 man on his team now. The other teams aren't going to let him just break away like he's done before. He ain't gonna catch anyone by surprise. Any move he makes is going to be marked by all of the other GC contenders. He's a good climber, but not good enough to ride the big climbers off of his wheel to make up minutes of time in the mountains.
Now I don't think they should just like Vino flounder, but to sacrifice Kloden over Kashechkin at this point is dumb. Kloden is clearly riding better than anyone on that team at this point. Astana's team director is either dumb or he's pushing the Kazack riders on a Kazack team. What other explanation is there?
Let's just fantasize here:
explanation 1: Kloden's injury is worse than expected. Astana doesn't know if he'll make it to the end of TDF. So let's decide to sacrifice Kloden to help Vino get on safely to the rest day.
explanation 2: Astana --> kazach team --> lots of money --> needs/wants a kazach winner. Period.
OrionKhan
07-16-07, 12:29 AM
Let's just fantasize here:
explanation 1: Kloden's injury is worse than expected. Astana doesn't know if he'll make it to the end of TDF. So let's decide to sacrifice Kloden to help Vino get on safely to the rest day.
explanation 2: Astana --> kazach team --> lots of money --> needs/wants a kazach winner. Period.
I almost can't blame Astana. They have to think about the big picture. Heck, they're probably better off with 2 Kazach's in the top 15, as opposed to having a German in the top 3 and only one Kazach in the to 15.
explanation 1: Kloden's injury is worse than expected. Astana doesn't know if he'll make it to the end of TDF. So let's decide to sacrifice Kloden to help Vino get on safely to the rest day.
explanation 2: Astana --> kazach team --> lots of money --> needs/wants a kazach winner. Period.
I almost can't blame Astana. They have to think about the big picture. Heck, they're probably better off with 2 Kazach's in the top 15, as opposed to having a German in the top 3 and only one Kazach in the to 15.
Nhubie
07-16-07, 03:19 AM
in 2004 when Jan couldn't pull through he told kolden to make this tour his and he still couldn't deliver.
Helmet Head
07-16-07, 04:52 PM
Here's what I saw:
Vino is dropped.
Vino gets on the radio.
Kloden comes back.
Kloden probably lost a minute on stage 9 because he was helping Vino. Maybe more.
Vino is dropped.
Vino gets on the radio.
Kloden comes back.
Kloden probably lost a minute on stage 9 because he was helping Vino. Maybe more.
SaintAndrew
07-16-07, 05:51 PM
yeah, 2nd to Armstrong, in a tour where Armstrong won 5 stages... he really disappointed there. :rolleyes:not to mention it took forever for him to get the go-ahead. he could have made it a much tighter race for the yellow jersey if he'd been able to race for himself sooner.
erader
07-16-07, 05:58 PM
Here's what I saw:
Vino is dropped.
Vino gets on the radio.
Kloden comes back.
Kloden probably lost a minute on stage 9 because he was helping Vino. Maybe more.
you'll notice contador didn't lose any time because of levi :eek: !
ed rader
Vino is dropped.
Vino gets on the radio.
Kloden comes back.
Kloden probably lost a minute on stage 9 because he was helping Vino. Maybe more.
you'll notice contador didn't lose any time because of levi :eek: !
ed rader
Randomus
07-16-07, 06:34 PM
Really now. If nationalism isn't an issue, why would they send back the guy who's higher in the GC as opposed to Kashechkin? Kloden and Kashechkin were up ahead in the same group. But they sent the higher GC guy back to pull for Vino. Dumb tactics. Nationalism is about the only explanation that makes sense. Send the German back to pull for the Kazack rider and leave the other Kazack up front. I think you're reading waaaaaay too much into this right now! :eek:
If you were Vino during that stage, would you rather have Kloden (a stronger rider) or Kaschechkin helping drag you back up towards the leaders? Me personally, I would ask for Kloden.
If you were Vino during that stage, would you rather have Kloden (a stronger rider) or Kaschechkin helping drag you back up towards the leaders? Me personally, I would ask for Kloden.
robow
07-16-07, 07:26 PM
"you'll notice contador didn't lose any time because of levi !"
Ole Levi has them right where he wants them, running exactly according to plan :rolleyes:
Ole Levi has them right where he wants them, running exactly according to plan :rolleyes:
Zauber
07-16-07, 08:38 PM
"If you were Vino during that stage, would you rather have Kloden (a stronger rider) or Kaschechkin helping drag you back up towards the leaders? Me personally, I would ask for Kloden."
At that point in the race not even Superman could have pulled Vino back up to the leaders. Kloden lost over a minute to buy Vino probably 5 seconds at best.
At that point in the race not even Superman could have pulled Vino back up to the leaders. Kloden lost over a minute to buy Vino probably 5 seconds at best.
OrionKhan
07-16-07, 09:04 PM
I think you're reading waaaaaay too much into this right now! :eek:
If you were Vino during that stage, would you rather have Kloden (a stronger rider) or Kaschechkin helping drag you back up towards the leaders? Me personally, I would ask for Kloden.
I don't think it was a matter of Vino asking for Kloden to come back. It was the team director. Seriously, do you think that Vino said, "Umm, send Kloden back to pace me back." I doubt it. That decision was made in the team car. Vino probably didn't ask for any help. Most atheletes pride wouldn't. And even if Vino asked for Kloden, it was still dumb to send the higher GC rider back. Kaschechkin was obviously strong enough to pace for Vino given where he finished.
If you were Vino during that stage, would you rather have Kloden (a stronger rider) or Kaschechkin helping drag you back up towards the leaders? Me personally, I would ask for Kloden.
I don't think it was a matter of Vino asking for Kloden to come back. It was the team director. Seriously, do you think that Vino said, "Umm, send Kloden back to pace me back." I doubt it. That decision was made in the team car. Vino probably didn't ask for any help. Most atheletes pride wouldn't. And even if Vino asked for Kloden, it was still dumb to send the higher GC rider back. Kaschechkin was obviously strong enough to pace for Vino given where he finished.
Randomus
07-16-07, 09:07 PM
I don't think it was a matter of Vino asking for Kloden to come back. It was the team director. Seriously, do you think that Vino said, "Umm, send Kloden back to pace me back." I doubt it. That decision was made in the team car. Vino probably didn't ask for any help. Most atheletes pride wouldn't. I agree that it was likely someone in the team car who made the final decision, but some people tend to think it was Vino's final call.
What Kloden said about the whole thing (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul17news):
Andreas Klöden stuck by his injured Astana team captain Alexandre Vinokourov on Sunday's final climb to Tignes, despite having the strength to ride with the favourites group of Christophe Moreau, Cadel Evans and Alejandro Valverde. However, for Klöden, who has found himself in a similar position before with former team-mate Jan Ullrich in previous Tours de France, it was the logical tactic to adopt.
"When we didn't have any helpers left, Vino asked me to take over the lead work," he wrote on his website, andreas-kloeden.com. "I rode a regular rhythm and in the distance could see that the riders ahead of us weren't working well together. We slowly got closer to them and had almost joined them, when Vino started having problems.
"Sure, I could have gone on alone, but we quickly agreed that I would wait for Vino and that together we would try to keep the time difference as small as possible, which worked out."
The German now sits in 12th overall, 3'46" behind race leader Michael Rasmussen while Vino is down in 22nd, 5'23" back. "I can understand the fans' complaints," continued Klöden, "but cycling is a team sport. If one of us stands on the podium at the end of this Tour, then everyone on the team will have contributed."
What Kloden said about the whole thing (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul17news):
Andreas Klöden stuck by his injured Astana team captain Alexandre Vinokourov on Sunday's final climb to Tignes, despite having the strength to ride with the favourites group of Christophe Moreau, Cadel Evans and Alejandro Valverde. However, for Klöden, who has found himself in a similar position before with former team-mate Jan Ullrich in previous Tours de France, it was the logical tactic to adopt.
"When we didn't have any helpers left, Vino asked me to take over the lead work," he wrote on his website, andreas-kloeden.com. "I rode a regular rhythm and in the distance could see that the riders ahead of us weren't working well together. We slowly got closer to them and had almost joined them, when Vino started having problems.
"Sure, I could have gone on alone, but we quickly agreed that I would wait for Vino and that together we would try to keep the time difference as small as possible, which worked out."
The German now sits in 12th overall, 3'46" behind race leader Michael Rasmussen while Vino is down in 22nd, 5'23" back. "I can understand the fans' complaints," continued Klöden, "but cycling is a team sport. If one of us stands on the podium at the end of this Tour, then everyone on the team will have contributed."
OrionKhan
07-16-07, 10:05 PM
I agree that it was likely someone in the team car who made the final decision, but some people tend to think it was Vino's final call.
What Kloden said about the whole thing (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul17news):
Interesting quote by Kloden. "I can understand the fans' complaints," continued Klöden, "but cycling is a team sport. If one of us stands on the podium at the end of this Tour, then everyone on the team will have contributed." If he keeps on riding both he and Kaschechkin are in a strong position to be on the podium.
Oh well, time will tell if it was a smart move or not. I'm wondering how much time Vino would have lost if no one came back for him. He has always been a rider who rode solo well.
What Kloden said about the whole thing (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul17news):
Interesting quote by Kloden. "I can understand the fans' complaints," continued Klöden, "but cycling is a team sport. If one of us stands on the podium at the end of this Tour, then everyone on the team will have contributed." If he keeps on riding both he and Kaschechkin are in a strong position to be on the podium.
Oh well, time will tell if it was a smart move or not. I'm wondering how much time Vino would have lost if no one came back for him. He has always been a rider who rode solo well.
biffstephens
07-16-07, 11:29 PM
Interesting quote by Kloden. "I can understand the fans' complaints," continued Klöden, "but cycling is a team sport. If one of us stands on the podium at the end of this Tour, then everyone on the team will have contributed." If he keeps on riding both he and Kaschechkin are in a strong position to be on the podium.
Oh well, time will tell if it was a smart move or not. I'm wondering how much time Vino would have lost if no one came back for him. He has always been a rider who rode solo well.
Kloden has class....that is why he is that way....so does Vino...Astana I believe was chosen that way. Vino will decide when he will not be able to win and the point for him to decide has not come yet....
Sometimes the workers are stronger than the leader it has happened MANY times in the tour......but standing behind your word that is not as common. I for one have a great amount of respect for Kloden for standing by his leader.
Oh well, time will tell if it was a smart move or not. I'm wondering how much time Vino would have lost if no one came back for him. He has always been a rider who rode solo well.
Kloden has class....that is why he is that way....so does Vino...Astana I believe was chosen that way. Vino will decide when he will not be able to win and the point for him to decide has not come yet....
Sometimes the workers are stronger than the leader it has happened MANY times in the tour......but standing behind your word that is not as common. I for one have a great amount of respect for Kloden for standing by his leader.
erader
07-16-07, 11:29 PM
"you'll notice contador didn't lose any time because of levi !"
Ole Levi has them right where he wants them, running exactly according to plan :rolleyes:
yeah i saw that interview too...he stayed back on the decisive move to mark the losers :eek: !
ed rader
Ole Levi has them right where he wants them, running exactly according to plan :rolleyes:
yeah i saw that interview too...he stayed back on the decisive move to mark the losers :eek: !
ed rader
2wheeled
07-16-07, 11:36 PM
yeah i saw that interview too...he stayed back on the decisive move to mark the losers :eek: !
ed rader
:roflmao:
ed rader
:roflmao:
OrionKhan
07-17-07, 01:35 PM
Both Vino and Kaschechkin lost more time to the leaders today, while Kloden finished up ahead. That time that Kloden gave away to go back and pull for Vino a couple of days ago could come back to haunt him and Astana big time.
Hornbiker
07-17-07, 01:42 PM
Both Vino and Kaschechkin lost more time to the leaders today, while Kloden finished up ahead. That time that Kloden gave away to go back and pull for Vino a couple of days ago could come back to haunt him and Astana big time.
Yes yes YES. Bad tactics. Right about now I've been telling everyone I can think of, "I called it!" Stephen Colbert style, although unfortunately without the balloons, confetti, and flashing lights. Vino has never impressed me as good enough in the mountains to take this race. Kloeden has. More than once.
Of course, if Vino shocks us all by taking it to everyone in the Pyrenees and gains back all that time, y'all are free to "Colbert me" right back. ;)
Yes yes YES. Bad tactics. Right about now I've been telling everyone I can think of, "I called it!" Stephen Colbert style, although unfortunately without the balloons, confetti, and flashing lights. Vino has never impressed me as good enough in the mountains to take this race. Kloeden has. More than once.
Of course, if Vino shocks us all by taking it to everyone in the Pyrenees and gains back all that time, y'all are free to "Colbert me" right back. ;)