General Cycling Discussion - *sighs* And so a Magna it must be.

Hey, I'm not sure where to post this but this seemed like the most appropriate spot.

Some of you guys might have seen my last thread, called "Missing my old bike". http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-308363.html

At the beginning of the thread, I had bought an $80 Dynacraft and hated it. At the end, I had fixed my old bike and gotten rid of the Dynacraft. I was a happy man, and after that thread I got 83 miles out of the fixed-up Freespirit.

Then it got stolen :(

I tied it outside a store with a pretty cheap lock. Came out of the store an hour later and it was gone. No sign it had ever been there. I contacted the police department and kept an eye on Craigslist, although the bike wasn't worth much to begin with. After 2 weeks, I have found nothing. It's been awful not having a bike, I always have to ask my mom for rides and I hate doing that. I also really enjoy riding a bike everywhere I go and it's too easy to take things for granted in a car. Wanna go to the mall? Sit in an air-conditioned leather seat for 5 minutes and boom you're there. Need something for your computer? No worries, Fry's is 10 minutes away if you take the freeway.

I hate it!

Anyway I was pretty saddened to lose that bike, after fighting my parents to let me keep it. I've been riding it for 2 to 3 years now and I have some good memories with it.

So anyway, I need a new bike badly. I took $300 out of my bank account (from my job last summer), I wanted to get an OK bike at a real bike shop. Unfortunately, my parents see a bike as a way of getting somewhere, it must be cheap in case it gets stolen or if you trash it. What's the point of spending a lot on a bike? They just don't understand. So my dad told me to put $200 straight back into the bank because "you don't need to spend more than $100 on a bike". Ugh. It's been 2 days of arguing and they are NOT changing their minds. My dad also doesn't want me to buy a used bike (wtf?) because he says you can't trust them. I know none of this is true but it's just the way they think and there is no changing their mind about it, it must be bought new and it must be $100 or less. The only bike that I found to be passable at all the dept. stores was a blue Magna "great divide" MTB (trash, I know...). I would love a real bike but I must buy a toy instead. So...

1) I know it will have a horrible assembly job. What should I check before I ride it, where are the usual weak spots of a bike assembled by someone who doesn't care?

2) It has the awful pedal cranks that aren't 1 piece, but instead 2 chunks of metal that screw into the sides of the bike. The last bike I had with these types of pedals, they kept getting loose as I rode it no matter how hard I tightened. Is there some secret to making sure they stay on or are these doomed to always do that?

3) It has a few Shimano components. Does this mean anything, or is it the same as no-name components?

4) Is there any alternative for a $100 bike that must be bought new?

I wish my parents could understand.... you can get a great bike used for around $50 on Craigslist...

Well, you could always buy a big rock of crack. Surely that's a better activity than riding a bicycle. Clearly, you've earned your own money, and you should be able to spend it however you'd like. Give him the old "it's a better investment to purchase a better quality bike" spiel. Good luck.

It's not going to work, we've gone over it already and they tell me I should "save the money for college". I have told him about how a better bike will last a lot longer and be more enjoyable to ride but he says it's all the same, you're just paying for the name, etc etc etc. He's had good luck with crappy, off-brand TV's and it's lead him to believe "why buy expensive when cheap will do the job just fine?". The problem is that I'm only 15 and sadly I don't even have much control over how I spend money I worked for myself

Since the old Toys R Us bike was obviously unreliable and of poor quality, it seems to me that his argument about used bikes being untrustworthy is rather ironic.

As to what to check? Everything. Though especially make sure the wheels fit properly in the dropouts, and are secure. I've heard several stories of them popping out mid ride on dept. store bikes.

P.S. Show your dad this forum? :p

You sound like a reasonable fifteen year old. Have you been this reasonable with your parents? If so, your Dad is being unreasonable, and you might consider buying the bike you want (within the budget he has set, or at least something close) and keeping it locked somewhere off their property. You are certainly old enough to make the decision of what budget bike to buy with your own money! If that means locking it outside, so be it. Get the most thief and parent-proof lock you can.

Just something to consider, I obviously don't know your family situation or all the facts.

Actually, printing this thread out is not a bad idea. I would ask them what would cost more - a $300 bike or the hospital bills when something crucial fails on the Magna and you are hurt or worse? One thought is that if you get a bike of moderate quality - and you care for it well - you will have something to use for transportation in college.

weirdlookinguy,
Are you still working? Also didn't you buy a thrift store bike for parts? Or did you just end up with a new wheel? If you are still working or will be see if you can cut a deal that a certain percentage of your money can be spent however you want if the rest goes in the bank for the college fund. Can you makes some bucks on the side working on someone else's computers? Is there a "bike co-op" in your area? Scour the neighborhood for parts bikes and build something up. I don't know how to tell you to deal with your parents...

Aaron:)

I think that wahoonc's suggestion is a good one. My parents demanded that I put every other paycheck into college savings, the remaining was mine to do what I want with (within reason). It sounds like your parents give you a little less leeway. It's hard to give advice without knowing your family situation. Your parents are obviously pretty ignorant about cycling. That's not say they are ignorant people, just that they have zero exposure to this. Have you got any cycling events in your area? Races, shows, etc.? Ask them to take you, in a car, to one of these events. That will make them feel like they are providing for you, being the parent. At the same time, it's exposure for them, which they need if their positions will be swayed.

Wierdlookinguy's folks,

$100 is not going to buy a real bike. The ones for that price point in big box stores are quite literally toys.
For an automobile analogy, $100 is going to buy a Yugo at best, not even a Trabant. $300 one can get a bicycle that was assembled by a bike mechanic, not a check out boy, and will be a significantly better vehicle, and not the cheapest thing that can be made for the lowest price point possible; ok for a lawn chair, not the best strategy for something your child will be riding in traffic.
Replacing inadequate parts can quickly bring a Walmart bike's cost to as much as if not more than a bike shop bike. A box store bike can be made into a reliable bike, but it's analogous to making an old English sports car a reliable daily driver; be prepared to do a lot of tinkering, and in the long run a Toyota would have been less of a headache and likely cheeper.

Giant makes several bikes in the $300 range (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/lifestyle/)that will last for years. The Cyprus and Simple cursiers are two.

Wierdlookinguy,

The absolutely best way to prevent your bike from being stolen is to use a quality lock, such as a Kryptonite Dlock, and a proper locking strategy such as what is recommended by Sheldon Brown (http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html).

If you have no choice but to use a big box bike, here (http://www.bicyclesource.com/books/wrench.shtml) is a list of many good books on bike repair. Good to know and have no matter what kind of bike you end up with. The mechanics forum here is also an excellent resource. Posting a thread asking what exactly you need to check there would be prudent.

Get a $30 80's road bike, throw away the junk derailers and run it as a bombproof singlespeed. I built up a solid Miyata for my roomate for about $60 total. I needed wheel truing, bar wrap, new chainring bolts, and threw on some slightly better brake levers I had laying around.

If you're patient, you'll find your bike. Don't waste your money at any department store.

Actually, printing this thread out is not a bad idea. I would ask them what would cost more - a $300 bike or the hospital bills when something crucial fails on the Magna and you are hurt or worse? One thought is that if you get a bike of moderate quality - and you care for it well - you will have something to use for transportation in college.

Nobody can get a Magna going fast enough to hurt themselves. :lol:

Actually, you might get off easy finding a bike you don't need to wrench on at all.

Example:
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/bik/374660599.html

Nobody can get a Magna going fast enough to hurt themselves. :lol:
Don't be too sure about that. I've seen some guys on those kind of bikes get going pretty fast (and also watch the frames shake and wheels wobble alarmingly).

bikes are transportation, not toys.

a LOT of bikes sold at discount retailers are toy bikes, built with disposable non-standard componetry no bike shop wants to work on or repair.- most bikes sold at discount stores are like Corvairs - your dad might get this - "unsafe at any speed"


At the bike shop I work at, we see a lot of 'discount' bargain bikes that are 'throwaway bikes' after six months of riding;

we also see twenty year old inexpensive bikes built by established bicycle manufacturers that are still going strong.

would your dad buy an unsafe, disposable car that no auto mechanic wants to work on, that breaks in six months and has to be scrapped?

even inexpensive bikes sold at bonafide bike shops are much better quality than most discount store bikes.


barring the purchase of a good quality, inexpensive bike at a real bike shop, look for a bike kitchen that allows you to earn a bike while learning to fix them up. go and get one.

Buy a good lock and never neglect to lock your bike well- remember, its' not a toy, its transportation.

what's wrong with a nice $100 used bike? My Sorrento set me back 100 before taxes. It's still going strong. It was 8 years old when I got it, it's almost 9 now, and I've put over 500 miles on it, including a really awesome 20 mile midnight ride last night, and a few miles on the local trail with my wife this evening.

what's wrong with a nice $100 used bike? My Sorrento set me back 100 before taxes. It's still going strong. It was 8 years old when I got it, it's almost 9 now, and I've put over 500 miles on it, including a really awesome 20 mile midnight ride last night, and a few miles on the local trail with my wife this evening.
I'm not sure, ax0n, but I gather his parents are concerned about the state of a used bike. I think perhaps they may not be aware of how easy (relatively) and inexpensive most bike repairs are. If weirdlookingguy is going to print this out for his mom and dad, what do you think they should know about that?

Thank you so much for the support guys, I am printing this and showing it to my parents. Unfortunately, it probably won't change things much since my parents follow the "newer is better" train of thought. I wish my dad wouldn't be so stubborn sometimes :( I'll let you guys know what happens.

True, New is usually better than used. particularily in bikes IF you don't know what to look for in the wear and tear of the used ones.

However, there are a lot of good, NEW, QUALITY bikes at the bike shops for under three hundred dollars. ones that would last you well into your college years and beyond. soon there will be 2007 model year closeout sales going on, as bike shops roll in the 2008 models.

but one word of advice on the lock- no cable lock is a good lock. whatever type of bike you get, also get a U-lock.

To Dad, your son should spend more than a hundred bucks to get a quality new bike. spending only a hundred bucks at a discount store is just throwing the money away.

Also, hold off on printing until later tomorrow. There are a whole bunch of members that read BF during their lunch hours at work, and I suspect you'll get a lot more posts then. Try about 4pm Pacific time.

Get a job in a bike shop. Make a deal with the owner for the $100, plus take a cut off the top of your check for the balance until it is payed off. With the employee discount, you might be able to get a $400 bike at $200 actual without getting your Dad on your case. (Just a thought).

My Dad got mad at me when I was 16 (ages ago) and bought an expensive stereo with some of my work money. After 8 years, I bought a better - new stereo while in Japan; already had my college fully covered and gave him my old stereo. He loved music and loved listening to that stereo. So in the end, he respected my choices.

Hope it somehow works out for you.

If Dad gets to read this: From one Dad that raised 3 boys, to another Dad; $400 is what a decent new bike cost nowadays. And it sounds like you have a good kid who is willing to work for his ride.

Clearly, you've earned your own money,

See the problem with this argument is then they bust out the, are you paying rent + food + backpay for all we spent on you.

Then you're ****ed.

What the hell do you say to that?

On topic:

$100 will buy you a nice bike, that is not new. In fact, you're better off spending that $100 on a good u-lock like a krypto NY U or the krkypto fagheddboutit chain. And ONLY after you've bought a lock should you even begin looking at a decent bike. Your parents sound like major asshats like all parents are to kids who are 15.

1) 'Rents need to go on a need to know basis, ON EVERYTHING, ASAP.


Actually, printing this thread out is not a bad idea. I would ask them what would cost more - a $300 bike or the hospital bills when something crucial fails on the Magna and you are hurt or worse?

This argument, while looking good on paper has the disadvantage of being a con for a dept store bike that is $300 AND a new LBS bike that is $300. That is, they both need to be adjusted before it can fly out the door. That is unless you _KNOW_ that your LBS can put together bikes competently.


Get a job in a bike shop. Make a deal with the owner for the $100, plus take a cut off the top of your check for the balance until it is payed off. With the employee discount, you might be able to get a $400 bike at $200 actual without getting your Dad on your case. (Just a thought).

This is the best suggestion, THUS FAR. Either that or some variant where you don't actually have to clear bike buying with your parents.

What size do you ride? We can be on the lookout...

Thank you so much for the support guys, I am printing this and showing it to my parents. Unfortunately, it probably won't change things much since my parents follow the "newer is better" train of thought. I wish my dad wouldn't be so stubborn sometimes :( I'll let you guys know what happens.

Explain to them that an old Miyata, Panasonic, Raleigh or whatever have you that might cost you $50 today cost 20 years ago the equivalent of a $600 modern road bike today. The bikes that were equivalent to the $100 Magnas are practically nonexistant because they were all thrown away.

A good quality steel road bike can last you a lifetime. I ride a 22 year old Panasonic. I'm 20. It has a good chance of outliving me!

A good quality steel road bike can last you a lifetime. I ride a 22 year old Panasonic. I'm 20. It has a good chance of outliving me!
+1. My dad's had the same road bike for 30 years, and he bought it used still. That thing still runs very well, and is actually a pleasant ride.

To the OP, check out pawn shops. I remember searching for my first real bike, pawn shops had some very attractive deals. I think it's just because the owners didn't really know the value, they were obviously not exposed to cycling as we are. I saw some stuff in the 100-200 dollar range that looked decent.
Check craigslist too, it's local. I wouldn't do eBay for this. I think that, in general, when people list things on eBay, they are looking to make top dollar. On Craigslist, it seems like most people are just listing it to get rid of it, maybe you'll be able to pull the "I'm just a student" routine and reduce the price a little bit. I've pulled the "I'm a student" stunt plenty of times.

Instead of spending all that money on a magna, why doesn't your dad just buy you a bigwheel?
http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/byobw.jpg
Do me a favor and tell your dad that he's a f*ck'n moron.

+1 for buying an 80's road bike. I ride a 1987 Miyata that is a VERY reliable and fun bike. This thing will last AGES.

DAD- BE FLEXIBLE! Your son is obviously doing the right thing by trying to get the best bang for the buck. You've given him a restriction on the amount of money (HIS money at that) he can spend, and he is cooperating. At least let him make a sound investment with that money. If you tell him that he can spend $100 and only $100 on a bike before college, don't you think he'd do his darnest to make sure he's buying something that will last? You should trust that he might actually know what he is talking about when it comes to bicycles. You also might consider that buying the cheapest possible alternative is not always the best choice. Think about the lesson you are teaching him!

And if mom and dad are reading this thread - please remember that our members are of all ages and maturity levels. No mature forum member intends any disrespect towards you in their posts. You'll have to take the rest with a grain of salt. :rolleyes:

1)
It sounds like the whole thing started with a cheap lock. If you used a cable lock that is a problem. The cheap lock worked like a cheap lock. You get what you pay for. Get a good kryptonite lock to start with.
They are not cheap. All the specs are on the Kryptonite web site. Lock your bike everywhere you go carefully and convince your parents you will follow through with this. Then, be sure you do follow through.
2) I don't blame your dad for wanting to save money. If everything were equal then it makes sense to spend less money on something. But, everything is not equal.
The cheap bike may not be safe and can fall apart on the first ride. I have personally fixed three or four mart bikes that kids were riding that had very loose bars and seat. So loose they were moving when being ridden!

To Dad:
The department store bike can be a safety issue. Even if it gets stolen isn't it better to have your son on something safer while he has it? A bike from a bike shop is more likely to be assembled safely and even have brakes that work. Some mart bikes have brakes so bad you can't adjust them properly. I have worked on some. A department store bike will probably be in the bike shop very soon unless you can fix it. If that happens your percieved savings can go away very fast. It's very common.

Yes, save money by getting an entry level bike shop bike. They don't cost $100, that's life. The bikes and the care of assembly are different, you are getting more for spending more. It could be a savings in the end. Most shops give a free first tune up too. Ask to be sure. A good lock alone will be over $50. But it works, that could save a lot of money. If it was locked correctly he would probably still have the other bike. Kryptonite locks has instructions on locking a bike safely. They are very good. You might want to go over the locking details with your son if he does not already know them.

My Dad did that to me when I wanted to buy a reasonably decent road bike from the LBS with my own part time job income. Instead of getting something I could take pride in I got a department store bike that was just a means of transportation and didn't last that long. My interest in cycling didn't really revive until years later.These things leave their mark over time.

Trek U locks, manufactured by Kryptonite, available at your local Trek dealer,

20 bucks.

actually. go ahead and get the walmart bike. but first, have your dad agree to pay for all repairs.

I will second or third or where ever we are the quality of decent quality older bikes. 95% of my 15 ridable bikes are 20 years old or older. The oldest being around 50 years old. Some of these bikes have had the crap ridden out of them and are still ridable today (that one would be my 1971 Raleigh Sports Standard) they don't look like much but have been very durable.

BTW how ya makin' out with getting another bike;):p

Aaron:)

I remember many many many moons ago, I had a similar discussion with my father, though not about a bike. He used the saving money for college argument...

I did the math concerning how long it would take me to save enough money to actually make a dent in college expenses at my minimum wage high school job.

I came up with 8-10 years, and that was provided I never spent a dime. Then I could actually completely pay for college. If I spent anything (dates...going out with friends...movies...), well, we're stretching that number closer to 20.

I am, incidentally, a college graduate. Grants and scholarships and loans (yes, loans) did it for me, and I worked to pay for my room and board only...and that was a struggle at times.

If you buy a quality bike now, and a QUALITY LOCK, it will last you through the long road ahead that is college. Or you can buy a new x-mart bike every 1-2 years of college, with the intervening frustration.

By the way, when I presented that math, my father couldn't find an actual way to refute it.

I cannot comment on your parent's choices since I do not know them personally. But my own parents were very much like them. Except for choices of bike brands. My father did not want me to ride any old piece of junk because he knew how dangerous a poorly functioning machine (like today's Magna) could be to it's user. He only allowed me to ride quality bikes. As for stealing possiblites, that is always there for a bike rider. Bikes are very easy to steal and get away with it as you have experienced yourself. I had a couple stolen from me over the years.

But don't give up to quickly. There are other options available to you. As I said before, I only buy and ride bikes of known quality both new and used. I would not buy one used anymore since the theft problem is so bad here in Southern California (Los Angeles area) that the probability of unknowingly buying a fenced or stolen bike is too likely for me now. The last one I bought was in 1999. It was an old Phillips for 25 dollars from a reliable source. My latest bikes were all purchase new between $200-$700 dollars from reliable bike shops only. And they are the closest thing to theft-proof as a bike could be. They are folding bikes. They are designed to be folded up and taken everywhere with you. Since they were purchased new from good bikes shops, they come with warranties, guarantees, and free tune-ups for a period of time after purchase. And I do travel with them everywhere I go. They have been with me in a very dangerous gang infested area for several years without being attacked over them or being snatched since they are always with me when I am out with one of them. And being female, I do seem to attract even more trouble following me about. I am a walking target for possible assault, ****, or even court death without my bikes.

I am probably your parent's age. When we were 15, the bikes cost around $100 dollars new. Or you could buy used. And you did save for college. It is a different time now. I paid far more money for my degree than my older brother getting his free on a charity scholarship in the 1960's. And a few hundred dollars would not make any difference in attending college or not. It is in the thousands of dollars now. The only thing your money is doing for you is teaching you to be financially responsible for your own way in life. But it is meaningless as far as for paying for anything-even textbooks. Financial Aid will deduct the savings you have anyway. And if you are that poor, you will need Financial Aid.

As for bikes, you have 2 choices 1. Buy a folding bike-like mine in the Web site series below and don't worry about any more theft just as long as you never lock it up again. 2.Wail until you are 18 and a adult and buy whatever bike you want (or even a car). Parents are legally responsible for their children and have the final say in their lives. But I never met a unreasonable one. Just show them the unique folding bikes I have modified and presented in all their glory and I am sure they will o.k. it. I think it is a matter of education for most people since they never even seen a decent bike, much less a folding one.

See my bikes at the World Of Folding Bicycles series below:

Sheesh, you can't even spend the money you earned yourself on a bicycle of your choosing? Must be tough.


It has the awful pedal cranks that aren't 1 piece, but instead 2 chunks of metal that screw into the sides of the bike. The last bike I had with these types of pedals, they kept getting loose as I rode it no matter how hard I tightened. Is there some secret to making sure they stay on or are these doomed to always do that? Actually, one-piece cranks are mostly found on older or crappy bikes. Almost no "real bikes" come with them these days (BMX bikes might be one exception). But if your bike is crap, then yeah, components will just be ****ty overall and there is little you can do about it.



I wish my parents could understand.... you can get a great bike used for around $50 on Craigslist... Dang, I envy you! All you can get here for $50 is a piece of crap...

What would happen if you just went ahead and bought a used bike anyway?

Frankly, I think back to when I was 15... and I don't think I'd even discuss this with my parents. I'd just pull the $ out of the bank, go to the store and buy the bike. And I'd be quite surprised to hear any objections afterwards. I guess your family is different.

people have had good things toi say about the GMC Denali, it's only like $147 at Walmart.

people have had good things toi say about the GMC Denali, it's only like $147 at Walmart.

Some people have. Others have not.

Some people have. Others have not.

sure. but it might be better than a Magna.

1: Obey your parents, even when they are NUTZ!
2: Tell your dad his next vehicle should come from the WalMart Toy Dept. and not cost over $100
3: Make a note of this so You do not make the same mistakes your parents make.
4: Take that $100 and buy a good U Lock. Don't buy a bike just yet, carry around the lock for awhile, especially around the house. Bring it to the dinner table, don't say a word about it, just let it be everywhere.

4: Take that $100 and buy a good U Lock. Don't buy a bike just yet, carry around the lock for awhile, especially around the house. Bring it to the dinner table, don't say a word about it, just let it be everywhere.

:beer:

This is clearly the correct way to respond.

How tall are you?