"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - The inevitable Pcad Powertap Hand Wringing Thread is Here

Oh yes. I am close to a Powertap. I'm getting faster, but on days like today I realize there are two major flaws in my training strategy (3 if you include that I'm trying to get faster with Pcad as the motor):

1.) I don't ever take rest days. I realize this is utterly counter-productive to getting faster, but for multiple reasons I feel compelled to ride daily. My last day off the bike was April 30. F me. You can try 'walking on the bike', but NOTHING is better than doing NOTHING. Particularly for guys over age 45.

2.) I like the Powertap wireless unit. Any feedback on this? Mounting it up on different bikes involves a $15 handlebar mount, no wires, nothing. And they now have software for my Mac so I can generate those cool graphs like Dr. W. Don't look for my graphs posted on BF, it would be far too embarrassing.

I was utter Wasa today (thanks to botto for the metaphor it never felt more appropriate):

http://www.speakwell.com/well/2002_fall/images/trisWasa.jpg

110 miles on Saturday, and today I felt fried from the first pedal stroke. Hung on Nyack and got blown out on Scratchup Road (nasty steep climb about 4 miles from the end of a 50 mile ride) for the first time in a couple of months. You know those days when you're saying 'this ride shouldn't be this hard' and you're digging down just to hold the wheel in front of you wondering if your brake is rubbbing? One of those days today. Had a couple of strong moments, made it over the climb mid-ride with the bunch (that hill typically eliminates at least 1/3 of the pack, sometimes more).

Got away with that 100+ miles Sat/Nyack Ride Sunday combo the past few weeks. Not today. However I have had enough experience to know that tomorrow is another day and even the crispiest toast can get a second wind.

rest day for wussy

get the powertap, even I am about to order one :)

it doesn't matter how fast/slow fat/rasmussen young/pcad you are, EVERYONE (yes you) can benefit from better training. go for it: the numbers are more addicting than chocolate cake

it doesn't matter how fast/slow fat/rasmussen young/pcad you are, EVERYONE (yes you) can benefit from better training.
go for it: the numbers are more addicting than chocolate cake

I suppose that's possible. Maybe I need more miles, I only logged 1100 in the past three weeks.

You don't have a powertap? What is this, 2004? I'm stuck in some sort of time warp?

This is a done deal, pcaddy. With... uh... what I presume to be your bike budget, the Powertap is long overdue.

Pcad rockin' the Ptap. It has a ring to it.

You don't have a powertap? What is this, 2004? I'm stuck in some sort of time warp?

This is a done deal, pcaddy. With... uh... what I presume to be your bike budget, the Powertap is long overdue.

Pcad rockin' the Ptap. It has a ring to it.
he's not the only one.

god forbid that he does get one. the plethora of powerweenie charts&graphs is going to explode. :eek:

he's not the only one.

god forbid that he does get one. the plethora of powerweenie charts&graphs is going to explode. :eek:

The BF server would melt down in the first month and I would be banned for life.

When Pcad goes into a time warp, think 1994, not 2004.

Did you guys have a pool on when I would post this? Who won?

You don't have a powertap? What is this, 2004? I'm stuck in some sort of time warp?

:lol: Yeah, lots of us don't have one.

OK, actual information contained here, warning! :)

If you get a PT, i'd get the wired one. I've heard of some loss of data from the wireless ones. Plus, you'll save some money. If you're carefuly, you can route the cables just fine with a wired anything.

Take days off, senor! They're important!

Take my advice from experience: Skip the PT and get an Ergomo or, better yet, SRM.

I have the wireless version and haven't had any trouble with it at all. I would highly recommend it. The mount is sturdy and the lack of wires is a plus. I mount mine on my stem and still use a Cateye on top of my bars. For now I don't race it the PT, but the day could be coming soon.

you'll buy one. just like you did a TT bike. now that the bug is in your head, there is no point in turning back. :)

actually, i think i'm one of the few that isn't addicted to their numbers. i just don't care. i still prefer just using a HRM.

Please elaborate, BD.

Please elaborate, BD.

1) bdcheung likes bling.
2) pcad likes bling.
3) PT wheels (unless laced to expensive carbon rims) != bling.
4) Zipps = bling.
5) Ergo, bdcheung likes Zipps and, by extension, pcad also likes Zipps (though this was previously proven in numerous threads).
6) Ergo, pcad will be better off getting an Ergomo or SRM that will allow him to indulge both his thirst for data and desire for bling.

Take my advice from experience: Skip the PT and get an Ergomo or, better yet, SRM.

Even though Ergomo cranks get crapped on by most folks who train with power? Buy the PT and be done with it. I feel nekkid when it's not on the bike.

1) bdcheung likes bling.
2) pcad likes bling.
3) PT wheels (unless laced to expensive carbon rims) != bling.
4) Zipps = bling.
5) Ergo, bdcheung likes Zipps and, by extension, pcad also likes Zipps (though this was previously proven in numerous threads).
6) Ergo, pcad will be better off getting an Ergomo or SRM that will allow him to indulge both his thirst for data and desire for bling.

:D :D :D :D

Spring for the SRM. Pick up a used one on eBay.

you'll buy one. just like you did a TT bike. now that the bug is in your head, there is no point in turning back. :)


Correct.

I have spoken with two people who own the wireless PT's and have had no problems. One says the Mac software works fine.

Besides, any data loss in Pcad's case would be so infinitesimal it would be of no consequence to anyone.

I feel nekkid when it's not on the bike.

You can ride a bike without a Powertap?

As Pcad is wont to say...


Fascinating.

If you buy the PT, you're going to have to get it laced with a Zipp rim.


When you figure the cost for PT wireless built up with a Zipp rim, the SRM starts to look in reach.

You can ride a bike without a Powertap?


The more I think about it the more it seems like driving a Porsche without a tachometer.

Of course the Porsche has a motor and Pcad does not, but that is besides the point.

Your analogy is off, you are the honda civic that looks like an oversized shopping cart. Nice wheels, data monitoring but still a crappy motor ;)

I totally agree with bdcheung, you can get a ergomo off ebay for $1100 new(or a SRM amateur used for about the same) if you shop around and with the ergomo you can get altitude data.

Isn't the ergomo the one that (cringe) is only compatible with (re-cringe) Campy?

PCAD get the PT, and don't worry I'm sure your numbers are better than mine! So you won't have the lowest.

Isn't the ergomo the one that (cringe) is only compatible with (re-cringe) Campy?
I run my Ergomo with FSA carbon cranks on an Octalink spline. I know Ergomo comes in square-taper and Octalink and, I'm pretty sure, ISIS too. I've been happy with mine, and I know Vino's been happy with his.

I run my Ergomo with FSA carbon cranks on an Octalink spline. I know Ergomo comes in square-taper and Octalink and, I'm pretty sure, ISIS too. I've been happy with mine, and I know Vino's been happy with his.

I need a Bike Weenie > English translation please. I use Shimano Dura Ace cranks myself.

And the PT is transferrable from bike to bike. Big plus.

^^^^
you can't use your D/A cranks, or any other external bearing crankset with the current Ergomo.

You can get the SRM with D/A cranks, but it's a whole new crank.

According to DR W, switching an SRM crank from bike to bike is a 5 minute job. I think it would be a bit more involved switching the Ergomo from bike to bike.

Did you guys have a pool on when I would post this? Who won?
The guy painting 55/Rad's Tete won.

off topic... but i'm willing to bet if pcad takes 5-7 days off the bike, the first ride back will be a PR.

^^^^
you can't use your D/A cranks, or any other external bearing crankset with the current Ergomo.

You can get the SRM with D/A cranks, but it's a whole new crank.

According to DR W, switching an SRM crank from bike to bike is a 5 minute job. I think it would be a bit more involved switching the Ergomo from bike to bike.

I pump air into tires. Move an SRM from bike to bike? Would you like the tranny in your Mercedes replaced with that too?

Your optimism regarding Pcad's mechanical aptitude cannot be overstated. Here is a more appropriate assessment:

http://ginsengavenger.home.comcast.net/pix/thumbs.jpg

off topic... but i'm willing to bet if pcad takes 5-7 days off the bike, the first ride back will be a PR.

Doubt it. 5-7 days won't help much more than a day off and 2 days of easy spinning, in fact, it might make it worse.

Pull the 'rigger, buy an SRM ;)

Oh yes, thank-you for this thread. I was going to start a thread entitled "Is it okay to say that powertaps suck?", but your thread has opened the door for my rant instead. Bless you.

I got the cordless powertap this year becasue I was serious about training and all the big dogs say you need one. Walla, $2,000 dollars later. It SUCKS! Where do I start? The crappy battery life--changed at 1,000 mile mark? This thing drops more data than an I-bike. Seriously, I lost 5 minutes of data on my last 1 hour interval ride. May not seem like a lot, but it always seems to occur during a serious change in power, such as when you are doing hard intervals based on, of all things, POWER! So it totally screws your averages because it's reading zero speed, cadennce, etc for those 5min out of the hour. And you get these nifty dips to zero in your power graphs. What else? Oh yeah, it takes a frigging PHD to change the functions from powertap to bike computer should you want to race different wheels. Also, what's the deal with being able to see cadenece OR time? Yeah, that's right pick one, because you can't see both with this bugger. So you get cadence and have to wear a wristwatch for timing your intervals. What fun! I wish I had just gotten a really nice polar HR monitor instead and dropped the $$ on a set of 404's.

On the other hand, I did take home a stars and strips from nationals last week, so maybe it's helping my training. But I still hate the little bugger.

Thanks for letting me rant.
-The phlegmatic one

Oh yes, thank-you for this thread. I was going to start a thread entitled "Is it okay to say that powertaps suck?", but your thread has opened the door for my rant instead. Bless you.

I got the cordless powertap this year becasue I was serious about training and all the big dogs say you need one. Walla, $2,000 dollars later. It SUCKS! Where do I start? The crappy battery life--changed at 1,000 mile mark? This thing drops more data than an I-bike. Seriously, I lost 5 minutes of data on my last 1 hour interval ride. May not seem like a lot, but it always seems to occur during a serious change in power, such as when you are doing hard intervals based on, of all things, POWER! So it totally screws your averages because it's reading zero speed, cadennce, etc for those 5min out of the hour. And you get these nifty dips to zero in your power graphs. What else? Oh yeah, it takes a frigging PHD to change the functions from powertap to bike computer should you want to race different wheels. Also, what's the deal with being able to see cadenece OR time? Yeah, that's right pick one, because you can't see both with this bugger. So you get cadence and have to wear a wristwatch for timing your intervals. What fun! I wish I had just gotten a really nice polar HR monitor instead and dropped the $$ on a set of 404's.

On the other hand, I did take home a stars and strips from nationals last week, so maybe it's helping my training.[COLOR="silver"] But I still hate the little bugger.



We are all left to ponder: is this a plug or a slam?

i am going to withhold any comments until at least your third thread on this subject.

i am going to withhold any comments until at least your third thread on this subject.

You are wiser than your choice of hobbies would indicate.

A plug I guess, just wanted to lend some credibilty to my powertap hate.

A plug I guess, just wanted to lend some credibilty to my powertap hate.
BF Whining RULES.

Congrats on the Stars and Stripes. None of us are worthy of being in the same cyberspace with you. You have something in common with George Hincapie more impressive than 'well we both raced in Central Park a few times'.

I need a Bike Weenie > English translation please. I use Shimano Dura Ace cranks myself.

And the PT is transferrable from bike to bike. Big plus.

pcaddy, my greeka friend, spend some of those hard earned green backs on a DA SRM. it's the ONLY way to fly. :D

pcaddy, my greeka friend, spend some of those hard earned green backs on a DA SRM. it's the ONLY way to fly. :D

Just go ahead and buy 2 so you don't have to switch them back and forth. You could always sell the ST1300 (or is that 1400).

I got the cordless powertap this year becasue I was serious about training and all the big dogs say you need one. Walla, $2,000 dollars later.

For once, I'm going to try to not be argumentative. Of course, just because I try doesn't mean I will succeed. Hell, we all know I'm going to fail.

But anyway, $2K? Ebay, my friend.


It SUCKS! Where do I start? The crappy battery life--changed at 1,000 mile mark?

Don't know about the wireless, but mine is AOK at 6K miles.


This thing drops more data than an I-bike. Seriously, I lost 5 minutes of data on my last 1 hour interval ride. May not seem like a lot, but it always seems to occur during a serious change in power, such as when you are doing hard intervals based on, of all things, POWER! So it totally screws your averages because it's reading zero speed, cadennce, etc for those 5min out of the hour. And you get these nifty dips to zero in your power graphs. .

Hmm... again, no problems, but I don't have wireless.



What else? Oh yeah, it takes a frigging PHD to change the functions from powertap to bike computer should you want to race different wheels.

I do not yet have my Ph.D. but don't have a problem.





Also, what's the deal with being able to see cadenece OR time? Yeah, that's right pick one, because you can't see both with this bugger. So you get cadence and have to wear a wristwatch for timing your intervals. What fun! I wish I had just gotten a really nice polar HR monitor instead and dropped the $$ on a set of 404's.

I'm with you on this one, I usually have to go by feel, or speed in gear.

It would appear that 90% of the problems are related to the new wireless technology. Wired may be more of an initial setup pain, but it sounds more reliable and easier in the long run. And several hundred $ cheaper.

Pcad is leaning towards wired. I will have my eyes peeled on eBay, but this gizmo I may buy new to have warranty rights and to stop pissing off my LBS.

PCad, this may challenge your mechanical aptitude but do you know if your Six13 is an SI Bottom bracket equipped model with a sleeve for the DA BB? If it is you could run a 'dale SI crank SRM. Same price as a DA but lighter and stiffer...

I hated the user interface on the Powertap. You are restricted to consecutive intervals: i.e., when one interval ends the next automatically begins. What's nice about the Ergomo is that I can stop an interval without starting the next one. Furthermore the Ergomo just has a better computer head, IMO. I can see speed, power, cadence, elapsed time, and heartrate on one scren. Push a button and you get power, gradient, current altitude, and total elevation gain. Push a button and you can cycle through "Maximum" and "Average" of the main screen (power, cadence, speed, heartrate). A fourth screen gives you total kJ, kCal, trip miles, and odometer. Another screen gives current power, Normalized Power, TSS, and IF. Finally, you get a screen with battery info, total memory record time remaining, date, current time, and temperature.

Very intuitive displays. Very easy to do intervals.

I hated the user interface on the Powertap. You are restricted to consecutive intervals: i.e., when one interval ends the next automatically begins. What's nice about the Ergomo is that I can stop an interval without starting the next one. Furthermore the Ergomo just has a better computer head, IMO. I can see speed, power, cadence, elapsed time, and heartrate on one scren. Push a button and you get power, gradient, current altitude, and total elevation gain. Push a button and you can cycle through "Maximum" and "Average" of the main screen (power, cadence, speed, heartrate). A fourth screen gives you total kJ, kCal, trip miles, and odometer. Another screen gives current power, Normalized Power, TSS, and IF. Finally, you get a screen with battery info, total memory record time remaining, date, current time, and temperature.

Very intuitive displays. Very easy to do intervals.

But can't you just use your PT to do intervals and see what kind of watts you're generating? Isn't that the whole point of a power meter? Do I really need have some computer program that tells me when I start and stop? I'd never train that way anyway. I want something objective to quantify my workouts with not some computerized cluster ****. I work with that stuff all day.

This may be far to complex for Pcad's simple brain. Cycling is supposed to be fun. This doesn't sound like fun. This sounds like a massive techno pain in the ass.

Just forget the whole friggin thing already.

As much as I'd like to guilt you into it, Pcaddy, if you're not going to look at the data, it's pretty much worthless.

So you should buy a set of 404's laced to an SL, try them out, and sell it to me later.

As much as I'd like to guilt you into it, Pcaddy, if you're not going to look at the data, it's pretty much worthless.

So you should buy a set of 404's laced to an SL, try them out, and sell it to me later.

Isn't there enormous value to knowing if your power at a given moment is what expect it to be or NOT? I thought that was kind of the whole idea with these things.

But can't you just use your PT to do intervals and see what kind of watts you're generating? Isn't that the whole point of a power meter? Do I really need have some computer program that tells me when I start and stop? I'd never train that way anyway. I want something objective to quantify my workouts with not some computerized cluster ****. I work with that stuff all day.

This may be far to complex for Pcad's simple brain. Cycling is supposed to be fun. This doesn't sound like fun. This sounds like a massive techno pain in the ass.

Just forget the whole friggin thing already.

pcad, the reason I dislike the PowerTap's interval function is evident in the following hypothetical (though realistic) scenario:
I'm doing hill repeats. As I begin the climb, I mark the start of an interval. At the top, I mark the end of the interval and begin my descent/rest period. As I begin the climb again, I mark another interval start point. This process is repeated with each successive hill repetition.

Now, when I go home and look at the data in CyclingPeaks, I have to pick out which of the intervals are "work" and which are "descent/rest" intervals. This isn't too difficult or complicated, but it's a pain in the ass as I have to go in and delete every offending interval.

----Now, with the Ergomo, the session would have gone like this----
Get to the hill, start first interval. Reach the top, stop first interval. Descend. Start hill again, start interval #2. Get to the top, end interval #2. Repeat as necessary.

Go home, download data to CyclingPeaks. Every interval selection represents a "work" or "climbing" interval. There are no "trash" sections to weed through and delete.

Isn't there enormous value to knowing if your power at a given moment is what expect it to be or NOT? I thought that was kind of the whole idea with these things.

The whole idea is to enhance your training - ie to make your training more effective. Intervals are a proven training method.

i dont understand the problem with the PT interval function. When I do 3 20 minute intervals with 2 minute rest periods I dont need to delete anything to see where the 20 minute intervals are. I just look at the rest periods as intervals too, rest intervals.

i think you need to think about it a little more. it's a lot of money for something that you may not even get much use out of anyway.