Three wheels

[Aggressor]

Three wheel recumbents, anyone with experience? I'd just like people's opinions on whether they think two, or three wheels is better, and why? Also some experiences with three wheels bents.

Cheers.

[zoridog]

I've wanted a trike ever since I saw one for the first time. The only reason I don't have one is that my local roads are pretty narrow and I'm afraid cars won't see me. These idiots are on the cell phone, lighting cigarettes, putting on makeup ... everything but looking at their lane.

A while ago I saw a thread about how you need to watch for potholes. On a two wheeler, you can make a quick swerve to avoid any hazard. On a trike, there are two front wheels that have to avoid road holes. A good point to consider I think.

[Aggressor]

The potholes dont concern me as the roads around my way are in good condition.

[tchazzard]

My Mango will be here in a couple of weeks. I will let you know how it goes.

[Aggressor]

Excellent :) Thanks a lot!

[peterabelard]

My wife has one now...I am picking up mine next week. She loves it, it is amazingly fast, and looks great. It DOES take up more room and the road and is very low. She is able to compensate very well....flags...flashing lights....mirrors....and especially simple good riding make their use a lot safer and more practical. We work with WizWheelz in Hastings MI (www.wizwheelz.com)....their trikes are great, support is excellent, and you can get a quality trike for much fewer $$$ than any other quality trike maker I have been able to find.

[beowoulfe]

I've been on a Greenspeed GTO for a year now. 5600 miles logged. Rode a Vision R40
for 4 years before the Greenspeed. I MUCH prefer the Greenspeed. There are SO
many advantages, I could never list them all.

I have no problems with car drivers seeing me. Just completed a 1300 mile self-contained ride up
the Atlantic coast with another rider (he coincidentally happend to be on a Vision recumbent) and
had no incidents. They appear to give me wider berth. Maybe they aren't sure what I am lol.

The rider with me on the Vision was looking for ways to justify a Greenspeed in his budget before
the end of the first day.

[tchazzard]

Hey. I have a Vision R40, but am very much looking forward to the delivery of my Velomobiel.nl Mango trike. Glad to hear the Greenspeed is working out. Enjoy!

[Ritz]

Any one have an opinion on the cat trike?

[Recumbent_Guy]

Hey, I have a Greenspeed GTE and am awaiting delivery of a m5 Shockproof. I cant tell you much about the 2wheeled recumbent experience until the shockproof arrives though. The 3 wheeled world is pretty nice however. Ive had some 'let downs' with my trike that are purely performance driven, and are my own fault. Ive got the Schlumpf Mountain drive and the SRAM dualdrive internal hub equipped on the trike. This give me a total of 48 gears, from the very low to the kinda high. :} Lets just say that ive never had any trouble climbing any hill with a full touring load attached to the back of the trike.

Having said that though, its not a speed machine. The drivetrain has a lot of inefficiency(due to the mtn drive and dualdrive) but I can keep up with 30k/ph group on a smooth road reasonably easily. I find it difficult to put on alot of a speed on rough roads simply because it starts bouncing around too much, but its easy enough to kick back to 20k/hr(or slower) for those areas. On a smooth road though, its a dream to pedal along. It tracks straight as an arrow, almost drives itself and of course is very comfy on long trips. And of course, being an expedition trike, it carries lots without hassle.

I have found several problems with it, mainly due to the width. These arnt your every day trouble in traffic kind of problems, but more practical issues, taking it on public transport(trains, ferries, etc) is a hassle, fitting through the doorway at the house is a hassle too. I have to lift the trike up and flip it onto its side and slide it in halfway, flip back to horizontal to fit the seat through...

I dont find any trouble with car drivers, as a previous member noted, they seem to give you extra room on the trike. Good comments are everywhere and people love coming over to talk about it and sometimes have a test ride. In fact, the first time I rode it in public a police car pulled me over, he wanted a go!

And just as a final note, regardless of all the drivetrain inefficiency talk, ive achieved my highest speed on this trike..99.8k/hr, downhill.

[Kev]

I just checked out those trikes at whizwheels I want one!!!! Anyone want to loand me 2 grand so I can get one :) I'll be you're friend :)

[allewedertje]

Hi,
I used to have a Greenspeed GTR, which I rode for nearly 3 years. Stopped riding it because of the harsh ride. In my opinion, any 20" wheel should have suspension, especially when riding on the real world ( rough surfaces, potholes, etc. ). Bought a third hand Alleweder ( a Dutch velomobile ) last november which I had upgraded by velomobiel.nl and am very happy with it : all three wheels are suspended, I can ride it all year through and it's much faster ! I use it mostly for commuting ( 25 miles almost every day ). If you ride only on very good surfaces, stick with a trike. If not, you should try a velomobile !

[tchazzard]

Originally posted by allewedertje
Hi,
If you ride only on very good surfaces, stick with a trike. If not, you should try a velomobile !

I would agree. I do not have my Velomobiel.nl Mango yet, but have been able to take a spin in a second hand Flevobike Alleweder a friend/neighbor just took delivery of. The suspension on each wheel makes for a very smooth ride. Velomobiles are definitely the way to go for the ultimate in commuting comfort in all weather and road conditions.

[alphamale]

I have been intrigued by recumbents for some time, and in turn, by trikes for part of that time. I have a few questions, though:

I have seen two basically different trike designs: single wheel in rear, or single wheel in front, with the former being much more common. What are the pros and cons of each layout. I assume the single wheel in the rear is advantageous, at seeems to account for about 99 per cent of models out there.

Although I've seen at least one post to the contrarty, it would seem to me that on a narrow two-lane road with no shoulders, blind curves, and hills, that the last thing you'd want to be on would be a trike, which is low and wide. At least if I was on a two-wheeler, I could get completely out of the way in an emergency.

I guess I'd just like to restate the question at the top of this thread, which is, what are the advantages/disadvantages of two wheeled recumbents vs. three?

[alphamale]

Ok... two more questions.

How does one transport a trike to the place where they want to ride it? They look awful large.

Some have mentioned the "Velomobile" on this thread. I took a look at it and the first thought that came to mind was, what if the weather outside is 97 degrees and 88% humidity? Looks like you would suffocate in a matter of minutes. Yes, I see the air intake on the front, but I dunno...

[Recumbent_Guy]

Some of the advantages ive found on my GTE are,

Stability on wierd surfaces, ice, water, puddles, slick metal plates on the road, etc. In fact anytime it looks like its going to rain I automatically ride the trike in favour of a 2 wheeler(due to a bad accident whilst riding in the rain on 2 wheels, 3 wheels just 'seems' safer). Also, I dont worry about falling when being shunted off the road by trucks and whatnot. I just drive off and know ill be able to keep going, even if its rough. Never had any problems with tipping.(Note, tipping can be a problem at speed with delta trikes, 2 rear, one front)

Awesome Stopping power, I upgraded to the Hope hydraulic disc's. They stop good, even when carrying a big load. This might be specific to me though.

Its low to the ground. Makes you think youre going super fast, though you might not be.

Delta trikes are perfect load carriers. Due to the design they can haul big loads on the rear wheels with affecting the balance of the trike too much. This might be offset by only having 'one' front brake. Tadpole trikes(2 front, 1 rear) can have 2 front brakes.

Tadpole trikes can brake-steer. Well, 'some' can, some say they cant. I find this advantageous, others dislike it. Means you can brake one of the front wheels, causing the trike to drift to that side. I find it useful for high speed when turning the handlebars makes too much adjustment. Im not sure if delta trikes have this problem or not.

Some delta trikes have more complex drivetrains, then again some dont, heh.

Transportation is a issue for me with my GTE. I cant break the GTE down into smaller components. Its one big unit. Other models of the greenspeed trikes can be broken down via a S&S coupling. Its not the fastest thing to do, but it allows you to break the frame down into smaller bits. I know a guy that has a GTX and it just slides into the back of his wagon, easy.

Obviously the width can be a problem on narrow roads, I havent had too many problems with the width of my trike(900mm), but there have been several occasions where ive decided to get off the road and wait to let a bunch of cars pass me before heading of onto the road again. Portability because of the width can be a problem too. However, the wider it is, the more stable on the ground it is...I carry dual mirrors on my trike to allow me to see behind, so I can see whats coming generally and take action if I need too.

If youre after a suspension, which is the one thing I miss on my GTE, look at
http://www.mrrecumbenttrikes.com/swiftadventure.htm for the full suspension 'adventure' trike...

Weight, trikes are heavy. My GTE, unladen tips the scales at 22kg. Its heavy. Its no problem when on the flat, its a little slow to accelerate, but keeping stable high speeds(30k/hr+ is not difficult for me). However, the moment that flat turns into a slight hill I find the weight really slows me down. Its not a quick hill climber.

It is a hill climber in the respect that it will climb anything, provided you have the energy. Ive seen trikes with upto 82 gears, and gear ranges down to 6 or so inches, enough to climb any hill. Because you have three wheels, balance is no problem, so you can go as slow as you like without worring about balance. This is especially useful when carrying a big load(ie, touring).

2 wheeled recumbents might be faster, or slower, depending on what models youre comparing, etc..I can bet most of the 2 wheelers will be lighter, but will also lack the complete stability of 3 wheels. Thery're bound to narrower, but than again, ive seen loaded touring bikes(upright and recumbent) that are no wider than some of the 700mm wide trikes..

There certainly is a lot of differences between 2 and 3 wheels, I suppose what you like depends on what you want.

[alphamale]

Thanks a lot for all that info. That was great.

[Recumbent_Guy]

No worries.

[beowoulfe]

There is a lot of controversy about which model is the better, delta with 2 wheels in the
back; or tadpole with 2 wheels in the front. I've got the tadpole design. IMO it is more stable.
I can do a U-turn in excess of 10mph in less than the width of our bike path (like a NARROW country
road). When I am on the roads, I do fly a streamer flag. I have felt uncomfortable a few times on
busy narrow roads, but I would have been uncomfortable on an upright also. I often felt drivers
were passing too closely when I rode an upright, I rarely feel that way now.

I have transported the trike on top of my Ford Taurus, lashed down between a roof rack.
No problems except some bugs in the seat webing. For a long haul I've broken it down and
put it in the trunk. I have a Greenspeed GTO with S&S coupler. It takes about 1/2 hour.
I now have a van and it just slips into the back. There are also plans available for simple
construction of a trailer hitch carrier.

My trike is 32" wide. It is a narrow version. I feel comfortable slipping through the
"car-blockers" on the trail at 25mph. I can easily get it into my house through the
front door without lifting it.

[tchazzard]

First, I can not speak to the pros/cons between the two style trikes, as I have only ridden tadpoles (single, drive wheel, in back). They would be a tad tricker on bike paths, but like anything, keep that in mind when you approach corners or crest hills. In otherwords, I would be more worried about sending an approaching bike off into the bushes due to the shock of a 30" wide trike approaching from the other direction. As for heat, they are slightly warmer than an open bike, but most of the velomobiles have great venting which channels air into the bike. As for me, I plan on riding my Vision R40 on the truly hot days and use the Mango for 70F and lower.

[alphamale]

Something I thought of last night: it scares me to think of a strange dog running towards me when riding in a recumbent (especially going up hill). I've had it happen before on an upright, but the trikes (or any recumbent) seems much more vulnerable since you're lying down right near the dog's mouth. I know this may seem ridiculous, but I have had at least 3 unpleasant encounters with dogs whose owners did not bother to corrall them on their property.

[tchazzard]

I have had a lot of crazed dogs chase me over the years. I have always stopped and talked nicely to the dog. In each and every case, they started wagging their tails or just walked back to the house where they live.

[Recumbent_Guy]

Ive only had a few issues with dogs, thankfully most were behind gates. There have been several occasions though when that wasnt the case. One time it was on a flat and I just picked up the pace and rode away. :} Another time, I just got up out of the trike and appeared at my full height, the dog stopped and wandered off. I find little dogs tend to get scared by the trike zooming past them, especially if they didnt hear my coming, heh. For the bigger dogs, they seem to just stop what they're doing and look at me as I pass. Ive always found that it pays to make yourself heard on bikepaths(with dog-walkers). The few times ive come up behind walkers with dogs and they've not heard me, I cruise past slowly, the dog sees me and jumps into the air or moves about unpredicably. Just 'bing' the bell about 10 meters away, the owner looks back, the dog slows and looks around, sees you, and doesnt get spooked. Problem solved.

One of the things I was reading about when I first got into trikes was that horses get spooked by them easily, perhaps because it was a low-to-the-ground fast moving object, like a wolf or something...but in practise horses have never been bothered by me zooming past them. Like the big dogs they just lift their heads and watch me zoom past.

However, ive heard of american folk(im australian) carrying an anti-dog spray. I imagine its a bit like peppar-spray, but not so nasty. Enough to keep the dog at bay. Ive not had any problems with animals so ive not looked further into it, some of the touring guys in my club swear by it though. Perhaps a loud air-horn(an air-zound or similar) would be sufficient for a quick get-away.

[alphamale]

I actually have the spray. I guess getting out of the trike might be the best idea.

I would never, ever trust an air horn to do the job.

[Aggressor]

Great info guys! Keep it coming..

[Ritz]

Ok, so maybe no one understood my question... I'll re-phrase, Has any one out there had any experiance with the cat trike speed? I'm really trying to size up my options before i purchase, and all Y'alls expertise will be greatly appreciated. So, Let it fly, good or bad , I want to know what you think of the cat trike. Thanks everyone! :D

[beowoulfe]

I've ridden theCatrike Road but not the Speed. Hope to this week. The Road was OK.
I didn't think it was anywhere near to the Greenspeed engineering level. But for
half the price it was a great trike.

A major limitation for me was the fact that Paulo has not yet designed a rear rack
for either model (last time I checked). I like to tour, often loaded; so that's a showstopper.

[Recumbent_Guy]

Looks like there is a rear rack available according to the website(an EZ-1 rack). I havent ridden any of the Catrikes, they seem kinda rare around these parts(mosty Greenspeeds and MR Components). The wheelbase on the 'speed' version looked pretty small, could that be a problem with stability?

Mmmh, im just comparing the pictures from the website to what I know, and have come up with some thoughts..It looks like one of the versions(the 'road' version I think) has the steering arms trailing from the wheel pivots, and connecting directly to the steering arm(without a crossover like the greenspeeds whos steering arm preceeds the wheel pivot). This whole system is attached to a normal looking bicycle headset unit, so there might be a little hint of tiller effect on the steering? Can anyone vouch for this? Also it looks like the 'handlebars' are quiet tall, is there a reason for that? Is that for wheel clearance reasons perhaps?

The barends shifters are a great idea, ive got them on my bikes/trikes and have no issues at all with them. There doesnt seem to be a replacable rear derailleur hanger...granted ive not actually seen any trikes in the flesh that do have them, but...*shrug*

The mirrors seem to mount directly onto the handlebars? Ive been used to my mirrors always being in the same place(on the kingpins) not moving around while im steering, small point, but maybe relevant.

Looks like a nice little machine though..the speed version seems pretty light too.

[Ritz]

Thanks Guys, Keep it coming if any one elese has an opinion. I thank you all for your help! :D

[BruceBrown]

[If youre after a suspension, which is the one thing I miss on my GTE, look at
http://www.mrrecumbenttrikes.com/swiftadventure.htm for the full suspension 'adventure' trike...]

I took a look as I was following this thread with interest. $3850 for the Adventure Trike from Swift. Seems a bit odd to spec it out with a Shimano Acera lower end rear derailleur. Other components also fall out of the "sweet spot" of available components as well. Makes me wonder just how good those RST coil shocks are for the suspension.

BB

[Recumbent_Guy]

To be honest, I didnt look at the specs of the swift adventure trike, I only listed it because it was the only full suspension trike ive had any dealings with. The components are pretty low-end really, but I feel you could upgrade the drivetain bits and still be cheaper than 90% of the Greenspeed trikes.

I doubt(not that ive had any experience with these particular RST shocks) that the shock units are of really good quality. I would place them at the same level as the rest of components. Mind you, it does have three of them, equipping with top-shelf shock units would be hideously expensive.

I cant imagine the weight of the trike is good either, they say it 'starts at 20kg'...thats pretty heavy.

To be completely honest, I cant say ive even craved 'full' suspension anyway. I really only missed suspension on the rear wheel, it seems to be the one that transfers most of the bumps. Other rear wheel only suspened trikes ive seen aorund on the 'net are the Optima Rider, http://www.ligfiets.nl/eng/2-09-1.htm and the Trice Micro http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/micro.html. The micro looks pretty nice to me, starts at a tiagra level, but an ultegra version is offered..mmh. I guess it depends on how much youre prepared to pay. If you want the suspension its always going to be more expensive than the unsuspended version.

[BruceBrown]

Thanks for the follow up, Recumbent Guy. And thanks for posting the link to the Swift Trike with suspension. I wasn't knocking anything you had done by mentioning the bike at all.

Rather, I was simply thinking outloud about the "package deal" that the company choose to spec the bike with for the sales price of $3850. One would think that an enthusiast who would be willing to spend that kind of money for a trike wouldn't mind paying that price or a little more if they would have a standard spec package that was a step or two up the component scale. RST makes some good quality suspension products, but with an Acera rear derailleur, Tektro brakes, etc... - I would wonder where the RST shocks fit in the component scale. Once again, I am just thinking outloud because I am weighing some options with regard to getting a trike and have miles to go before I finish my thinking and research process before I lay any cash down.

BB

[Recumbent_Guy]

hey BB,

Nothing wrong with thinking about options. I think I spend about a year toing and froing over the details on my trike. I wasnt disappointed, though my wallet was significantly lighter :}

As for the shocks, having no experience I can only point you to reviews of them..
RST-58/56/22A http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/olderrearshocks/product_22547.shtml
and the RST-22/20A/20B http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/olderrearshocks/product_22548.shtml
Or you could check out the manufacturers website, http://www.rst.com.tw/ (I couldnt get www.rstusa.com to work....)

Im not sure which one the adventure uses, but it would probably be one of those two.

What kind of options are you thinking over?

[Ritz]

Yeah, Bruce, I thought it was a little under staffed in the componant department also. I do like the cool photo of the trike with one wheel up on the curb though! I believe the price is seemingly high because it is listed in Aussie Dollars. ( Maybe it's the same in Vienna?) Overall, I like the layout... BUT... You can get the Catrike Speed for under two K.

[BruceBrown]

[What kind of options are you thinking over?]

Whether I am considering purchase of a road bike, mountain bike, tandem bike or now the possibility of a trike - I like to have components that are in the sweet spot of a manufacturer. So when I am looking at Shimano components, I would consider Deore, LX and XT to all be "sweet spot" components. XTR is high end (as is SRAM X) and the Acera is sub-par or below the low end of Deore. Since anything recumbent is new to me, I simply found it odd to see Acera components on the Swift Trike mentioned. Why? You wouldn't find anything in mountain bikes or tandems with Acera components unless they were selling way down in the sub $300 for single bikes to $700 for tandems.

I'm not sure that cleared anything up, but the point is that I would expect the recumbent community also knows the spread in price/performance/quality between an Acera derailleur and an XT.

BB

[Recumbent_Guy]

Heh, that has surprised me more than a few times in the past. It seems some people just dont mind/care about that kind of stuff. I tend to care about it, after my first experience with acera/alivio level components I moved onto higher end, LX and XT stuff simply because the acera stuff was breaking or wearing out.

Ive found that alot of home-builders and comfort oriented recumbent folk tend to not worry about the component levels as long as they do the job, but it seems also that the touring folk know exactly what they want, and the racers tend to know exactly aswell. That last guy I saw on a recumbent trike(racing version) had it kitted out with ultegra(front) and XTR(rear) running on XTR rear hubs and custom greenspeed slim drum brakes front hubs. Nice machine, very light for a trike. I was suitably impressed.

About recumbents though, many of them tend to be handcrafted in small production numbers which tends to make them much more expensive than a mass produced factory bike would be. Incidentally ive found most high end(low production) downhill mtb frames to be similarly priced. The recumbent bike I recently paid lots of money for had similar level components to bikes about $2000AU cheaper. What am I paying for? Low production numbers, custom setup(ie, its built for me), a much comfier seat, and im some cases a third wheel :}

Im guessing here, but I think the swift trike price was directly proportional to the number of extra shock units required and trying to keep it as cheap as possible to entice more people. I have no doubt you could simply order three fox float R and full XTR with dura-ace or campy Record for the front, but you'll pay extra for the frame. The components are going to be the same price, (youll need more for a trike though), but the frame is always going to be more expensive.

I think sometimes, when people go out to buy a bike they see a recumbent and think wow, comfy, fast, etc, but look at the price tag and wonder why its so expensive compared to bikes. The components are the same, or similar, but its so much more expensive. This might lead to alot of recumbents not being sold, simply because they're too expensive. If you cheapen up the components, the recumbent suddenly becomes much cheaper, and therefore more accessable, but if you know about bikes and bike bits, you'll automatically upgrade the cheapy components to something far more substancial. Ive found that most places that sell recumbents tend to work that way, sell the cheapest components they can reasonably equip in the hopes of enticing more people, because of the frame offset price.

[Ritz]

That makes sense.

[tchazzard]

Finally got the confirmation today that my Velomobiel.nl Mango will be ready to ship on August 30th. They have all the parts and are currently assembling it. So start checking http://www.hazbro.com/mango in mid-September.

[Ritz]

Congrat's T.C.! I look forward to reading all about it. :D

[dougfoot]

I ride a Trice Micro, and live in rural Oregon - the roads around here for the most part are in pretty good condition. When I ordered the trike in January 2002, I did so sight unseen. The options I choose for the trike were fenders, light mount for the front, rear rack and flag pole (the flag is standard on Trice's products). My micro has a hard tail - no suspension, but the ride is still pretty good.

[Bryan Ball]

I ride a couple of trikes regularly (Trice XXL and Pioneer). Never had a desire for suspension on the XXL as it is primarily used for fast day rides on good roads/bike paths. Sometimes wish for it on the Pioneer because I use that more like a car and often ride it on cobblestones and rough roads.

[Ritz]

Bryan! Hey dude! Glad to see your post, this is a really cool forum. Later, Ritz.:)

[Bryan Ball]

Of course I am a bit biased toward a different forum but this one is pretty good.

[Ritz]

Me too! But when everythings been read (2 or 3 times) this is a nice place to visit, and some darn nice folks here too! :D

[tchazzard]

My Mango (velomobile) arrived this morning. I will be taking it to work today once I tie up some loose ends here at home. I will start posting ride experiences to my web site:

http://www.hazbro.com/mango

Stay tuned.

[Ritz]

My Mango (velomobile) arrived this morning. I will be taking it to work today once I tie up some loose ends here at home. I will start posting ride experiences to my web site:

http://www.hazbro.com/mango

Stay tuned.
Hey T.C, I think now that you finally have your long awaited fruit, that you may consider a name change... Perhaps...MANGO-MAN!!!!!! :D

[mtessmer]

Ok, so maybe no one understood my question... I'll re-phrase, Has any one out there had any experiance with the cat trike speed? I'm really trying to size up my options before i purchase, and all Y'alls expertise will be greatly appreciated. So, Let it fly, good or bad , I want to know what you think of the cat trike. Thanks everyone! :D

I've got a Catrike Speed trike, I've had it two months now and I think it's great. It's fast, handles well, predictable and it climbs really well. Before I bought it I had concerns about it being to low and I wouldn't be seen in traffic. Well, that has been proven to be a myth, at least here in Minneapolis and surrounding suburbs. I've got it decked out for commuting and it's working out great.

[ALLAN PILLARD]

I ride a zing trike desinged and built by me.It has articulated steering(no fork the frame is 2 piece joined by a hinge pin). Front wheel drive ,under seat steer ,delta trike. The trike has fiber glass rod and A-frame suspention. SRAM 3x7 drive,SRAM drum brakes rear ,V brake front.Seat heigth-24 in.

[bentrox!]

A single picture = thousand words.
I really can't envision the thing from your description.

[ALLAN PILLARD]

Go to webshots.com they have pictures of the ZING. From the 2002 mid west recumbent rally