Advocacy & Safety - Berm rumble strips

Here in Pennsylvania the brilliant PENDOT has been on a campaign to install what I call "drunk saver rumble strips" on the berm of many roads. This all but eleminates the use of the berm when your riding a bicycle. They have even installed them on many of the marked bicycle routes. Drivers think you are being a jerk by riding on the highway when a berm is avilable but it is impossible to use.

Is this happening elsewhere? What is behind this, some insurance industry study or the brother in law of some offical has sold the idea?

Where in PA is this happening? A local road in DE (Route 141 between 48 and 100) has a short stretch where they added big wide rumble patches every few hundred feet that stretch almost the full width of the shoulder. If you want to use the shoulder at any point, you need to ride within about 2 feet of the high curb in the debris field. I have no idea why they were added. It's a very odd section of road too with traffic lights at either end and one in the middle and two free flowing exit/merge ramps.

They have them in kentucky as well there they are only a little wider than say a semi tire (single tire) It is mostly for long haul truck drivers to wake them up should they fall asleep at the wheel. Obviously good thing to have for any driver really. If they are covering the full shoulder of the road then yeh thats kind of silly and un needed should a driver ever cross that far in to the shoulder area they are already toast so why put something that expensive across the entire area?

I have seen these in quite a few areas of Arizona too... they are quite a hassle when riding a bike.

So much for shared roadways.

Why not just put little spikes that pop the tires of a car, but that a bike can ride through. That would wake the drunks and truckers up, wouldn't it?

Once again, bikes have to suffer because @#$% cagers can't stay on their precious, taxpayer supported roads.

Um, ride in the lane not on the rumble strip? Maybe I'm confused, but what in the world are doing riding way over there anyway?

Western PA. South of Pittsburgh in particular.

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/roadway_dept/docs/gapstudy.pdf

Um, ride in the lane not on the rumble strip? Maybe I'm confused, but what in the world are doing riding way over there anyway?

What he's saying is that the shoulder (is that what a "berm" is?) is supposed to be for slower moving traffic, pedestrians, stopped cars etc. But in this case, the government is co-opting it in order to keep drunk drivers from killing themselves. I guess that's so they can get back on the road and kill someone else.

Um, ride in the lane not on the rumble strip? Maybe I'm confused, but what in the world are doing riding way over there anyway?

Not sure what you are trying to say? When a good quality smooth berm is avilable I ride there, not on the road side of the white line. With the rumble strips(basically grooves cut in the pavement at a right angle to the road just to the right of the white line) you can not use this area to ride a bike. The whole thing makes it less safe for cyclists and more safe for drunk drivers?

Um, ride in the lane not on the rumble strip? Maybe I'm confused, but what in the world are doing riding way over there anyway?

Well that is not always possible on the 60MPH rural hiways in Arizona... sometimes other traffic comes along and they have an expectation that you can ride in that wide shoulder to the side.

But in this case, the government is co-opting it in order to keep drunk drivers from killing themselves. I guess that's so they can get back on the road and kill someone else.

Yeah I've never understood these. Why do we want to keep a drunk driver or for that matter a sleep impared driver on the road? Let them run off and hit a pole if that is what they are going to do. That way we can have police etc. arrive and arrest them if they are alive and bag them otherwise. Either way the responsible citizens are safer.

Also: Why is it so hard to stay on the road? Why do we have engineering studies etc. to keep a vehicle with power steering on smooth pavement in between a white and yellow line. Maybe I don't drive enough to understand the intricacies of motor vehicle operation, but it seems to me a simple matter even while impaired.

Here's an idea. Put the rumble strips in the traffic lane, so that they only contact tires on one side. That way the driver has to work really hard to keep the vehicle straight. Then, put a 5" deep and 5" wide trough between the shoulder / bike lane with entry and exit zones (for bikes) every 100 feet. Inside the trough put spikes so that your tires blow if you drive into it.

That way, you have to work really hard to keep your car going straight and suffer two nasty blowouts if you don't. Drivers would have to pay attention, and always keep both hands on the wheel. Talking on the cell phone could be perfectly legal because it would be an expensive trip to Big O Tires whenever you tried it.

They had some wide ones like that in Colorado several years ago, but now I think they're paving them over because of complaints from cyclists. I'm pretty sure they can achieve the same goals with narrower rumble strips that don't interfere so much with bikes.

To the OP - I recommend hooking up with a local cycling advocacy group to see if you can change the DOT's policies regarding the rumble strips.

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/roadway_dept/docs/gapstudy.pdf

Wow they actually tested these things with real cyclists.

I think one thing they missed is the fact that the road on those rural hiways is often quite smooth in the traveled way vice the shoulder, which is usually quite rough... I found when touring northern AZ that I prefered the right tire track over the shoulder and would often ride on the road and retreat to the shoulder when motor traffic came along.

Yeah I've never understood these. Why do we want to keep a drunk driver or for that matter a sleep impared driver on the road? Let them run off and hit a pole if that is what they are going to do. That way we can have police etc. arrive and arrest them if they are alive and bag them otherwise. Either way the responsible citizens are safer.

Also: Why is it so hard to stay on the road? Why do we have engineering studies etc. to keep a vehicle with power steering on smooth pavement in between a white and yellow line. Maybe I don't drive enough to understand the intricacies of motor vehicle operation, but it seems to me a simple matter even while impaired.

I think it's a matter of the sleepies more than the drunks. As for DUI - having been often drunk, and having played many video games drunk, it is my belief that judgement is impaired much more than the actual ability to 'keep it in the lines' - depending on the level of intoxication. I think the most dangerous scenario with DUI is being rear-ended or T-boned by someone who didn't notice a traffic signal or misjudged distance/speed.

I make it a point not to drive after having more than one drink with dinner, so this is observational knowledge.

I know exactly what rumble strips are, we have them here. I ride approximately 20" to the left of them.The shoulder is for broken down cars and other emergencies. I don't ride there regardless of the speed limit. You can ride over on the shoulder with the broken glass, broken cars, and wrecks if you want, but I won't. Bikes belong on the road, the real road, with the cars, trucks, and motorcycles. If they don't like it, tough!

Follow the money. Wrecks, no matter how many cars are involved, require the intervention of emergency personnel. If rumble strips can get half of the drunks, sleepers, and crashed tweakers home that might otherwise have wrapped themselves around a tree, the local government saves money. In the middle of the night, when most of these wrecks happen, even if the remaining half take out a few extra other cars and a few pedestrians and cyclists that's still half the number of incidents to respond to. The additional medical, property damage, and towing expenses are private expenses and do not affect the public budget.

Rumble strips save money. That's why they're there.

insurance companies and their lobby are the likely impetus behind installation of rumble strips.

Cool. Now you've got an excuse to take the full lane.

insurance companies and their lobby are the likely impetus behind installation of rumble strips.

Even if true, why is that a problem. If we are honest with ourselves, we will realize that there are far more drunk/sleepy/inattentive drivers on the road than there are bicycles. This is true even in cycling hotbeds. There are a few roads around here that have them, and I avoid them. If I am unfortunate enough to have to take that road, I either stay to the right of them, or I get in the right tire track. Its quite inconvenient and bothersome to ride around them, but I realize that they save lives so I'm willing to put up with them. If they also save taxpayer money, great. If they reduce the costs that the insurance companies pay, great, maybe I will not see continual rate increases due to higher costs. All of those things benefit me financially, as well as everyone else. As far as I'm concerned, these things are a good idea.

Even if true, why is that a problem. If we are honest with ourselves, we will realize that there are far more drunk/sleepy/inattentive drivers on the road than there are bicycles. This is true even in cycling hotbeds. There are a few roads around here that have them, and I avoid them. If I am unfortunate enough to have to take that road, I either stay to the right of them, or I get in the right tire track. Its quite inconvenient and bothersome to ride around them, but I realize that they save lives so I'm willing to put up with them. If they also save taxpayer money, great. If they reduce the costs that the insurance companies pay, great, maybe I will not see continual rate increases due to higher costs. All of those things benefit me financially, as well as everyone else. As far as I'm concerned, these things are a good idea.

This would be a good thing until some ahole runs into you going 60 mph! It seems that every decent road in this area is getting the same treatment, all while the state whines about the crumbling road system. The one road we frequent is State Rt 88 which was never very safe before they put in the drunk savers but less so now for cyclists.

Your statement: "There are a few roads around here that have them" says it all and your viewpoint will change when every road in your area has them. I did not post this as a NIMBY issue. This should be of concern to all who value the use of the roads. We pay taxes too.

This would be a good thing until some ahole runs into you going 60 mph! It seems that every decent road in this area is getting the same treatment, all while the state whines about the crumbling road system. The one road we frequent is State Rt 88 which was never very safe before they put in the drunk savers but less so now for cyclists.

Your statement: "There are a few roads around here that have them" says it all and your viewpoint will change when every road in your area has them. I did not post this as a NIMBY issue. This should be of concern to all who value the use of the roads. We pay taxes too.

I guess I feel that they have value and are not just "drunk savers." They will never be on most of the roads around me because most of the roads don't have paved shoulders (of any width), much less painted lines on the road. If they put the things on every road where they can fit I'd be slightly bothered, but as long as there is a place for me to ride that is not covered in the strips (either in the lane of travel or to the right of the strips), I don't see the problem. I guess I don't see this as a restriction from cyclists using the roads, but a limitation that is a reasonable sacrifice given the greater societal good.

As to the ahole hitting you at 60 mph...this is unlikely. If you are worried about it you can increase your visibilty by using lights, reflectors and high-vis reflective wear.

I've ridden on highways & interstates with wide shoulders and rumble strips only two feet wide, so most of the shoulder is still free and clear to ride on out of the way of high speed traffic. these work well for both drivers and bicyclists.

states and municipalities installing rumble strips across the entire width of shoulders should be gone after by the local & state bike advocacy groups to modify their standards for rumble strip emplacement.