Road Bike Racing - Another Tour de Newbie question...

O.K., I know there's been a lot of questions like these, but this is the first year I've been very interested in Le Tour, and I'm finding it facinating on many levels...

From Tour De France News (http://www.tourdefrancenews.com) :


After dropping the race's yellow jersey Claudio Chiappucci, LeMond carried a young Miguel Indurain to the summit before letting the Spaniard sprint around him for the stage win. LeMond virtually assured a third Tour victory, while Indurain got what would be his only road stage victory that year.

Now, I fully understand the gentleman's agreements involved with the race, but reading this caused me to wonder: If it is commonly known that a rider "let" another rider win a stage, where is the glory in that? In my experience in sports competition, it is more of a slap in the face to have your competitor let you win if they are better than you. Why would you want to win if you and everyone else knew that someone else let you win? Is there a lot more going on here than glory? Is it helping the team in some way if they win a stage? Or is it actually just giving the rider who let the other rider win an advantage by winning respect and honorability?

It's a great race, wish I had T.V. now so I could watch it. The bars here are playing baseball!!!!!

It's not an insult because getting to the finish line quickly involves a cooperative effort, LeMond couldn't have been there without Indurain that day, and LeMond was getting a different prize, the GC. It was fair, and not insulting to let Indurain win, just as it is not insulting to team leaders to have the help of their domestiques. In many wys the sportsmanship of pro cycling is a refreshing change from scuffed baseballs and corked bats.

Indeed!

Do you have to be in a team to compete in TDF or can you be solo? How do you get into TDF? Do you have to compete in a certain amount of other "qualifying" races (and presumably do well in them)?

Only teams are entered. Each team has nine members. There is a limit on the number of teams (22, I think). Jean-Marie Leblanc decides which teams will get in and which will not. There's no"qualifying" races but obviously, the TdF selection committee wants to have a competitive race. On the other hand, as it is a French race, the French teams (all else being equal) have better shot a getting selected than do teams from other countries.

Originally posted by gonesh9
O.K., I know there's been a lot of questions like these, but this is the first year I've been very interested in Le Tour, and I'm finding it facinating on many levels...

From a rider "let" another rider win a stage

The idea that one competitor let another win is subjective. For example, in a two minute drill in football, the secondary will "let" the offense have the short yardage passes, not because they are not defending them, but because the focus of their defense is preventing the deep yardage passes.

So to, the idea that Greg Lemond "let" Big Mig win the stage is entirely subjective. Greg did not contest the sprint is probably a more accurate appraisal. Why? Because contesting an uphill sprint requires a considerable amount of energy that can better be allocated for the next days stage, TT, Mountains, whatever. Miguel may not have led up the mountain because it is the responsibility of the person who wants the Yellow Jersey to go after it. He wasn't being given a free ride or a tow. He was using the situation to his advantage. (This is why it was so odd the other day to see Beloki chasing Vinokourov when Beloki crashed. By attacking, Vino was going after LA's Yellow Jersey, and [url]www.cyclingnews.com (http://www.tourdefrancenews.com) reported that Beloki's team manager, Saiz, was talking to Beloki on his radio trying to get Beloki to stop doing the work LA should have been doing. Beloki should have been sitting in taking advantage of the situation.)

Back to the Lemond/Indurain account, if Big Mig was not in contention for the overall, they also may have had a spoken or unspoken agreement that since Greg was not going to contest the sprint, Miguel's team would ally themselves with Greg's team in chasing attacks, etc.... In that sense, he may have "let" Miguel win, but he certainly didn't give away the stage victory.

This was not comparable to LA's misdirected philanthropy towards "Dumbo" in the TDF in, I think it was 1999, when LA actually tried to wave the Italian(Pantani) around him at a stage finish(I think L'Alpe de Huez) and "give " him the victory. Pantani was rightfully taken aback by such an overt acknowledgment in front of the entire world that he could not win on his own, but had to be "given" the victory.

I look at it this way: If Lance and a rider who is 40 minutes down found themselves a few minutes out front, Lance may just let the other rider have the stage.

As nice as it is to win a stage, it's not that big a deal to Lance because he's there to win the whole thing. For a guy who's won 4 tours and is on his way to winning a 5th, one stage victory isn't that big a deal. On the other hand, for 90% of the peloton, a stage win would be the highlight of their racing careers.

In other words, Lance probably isn't that greedy. Eddie on the other hand would probably enter a charity ride and try and outsprint a 10 year old.

Lance gave elephanito the win on Ventoux if memory
serves me well. And yes it was seen by marco as a slap in
the face.
2 years ago, Lance gave Ullrich a mountaintop stage win,
and Jan graciously shook hands with Lance and accepted
the "gift". an amazing gesture, probably more significant
than "the look" if you asked me. much like Sacchi and Piil on
stage 10.


Marty

Originally posted by lotek
Lance gave elephanito the win on Ventoux if memory
serves me well. And yes it was seen by marco as a slap in
the face.
2 years ago, Lance gave Ullrich a mountaintop stage win,
and Jan graciously shook hands with Lance and accepted
the "gift". an amazing gesture, probably more significant
than "the look" if you asked me. much like Sacchi and Piil on
stage 10.


Marty

Yes it was on Ventoux in 2000, pero, pardone mois, mes ami, but Jan Ullrich has never beaten LA in a mountaintop finish in the TDF. In 2001, after "the bluff", and "the look", LA smoked JU by ~2min to the top of L'Alpe d'Huez. In 2001, after JU rode off the course, LA waited and inquired of JU's welfare, they rode together until the last 3 km's and then, when Johan told Lance to launch, they shook hands and LA won by 1min at PLa d'Adet.

Originally posted by don d.
In 2001, after JU rode off the course, LA waited and inquired of JU's welfare, they rode together until the last 3 km's and then, when Johan told Lance to launch, they shook hands and LA won by 1min at PLa d'Adet.



Superb... any links to that, video or otherwise?

I watched the live coverage in 2001, but I don't have the videos of that year. World Cycling Productions has the videos; I would assume these vignettes are on there.

Originally posted by belfast-biker
Superb... any links to that, video or otherwise?

Try olntv.com. The hand shake was featured in the 2001 tour summary they showed a few days ago.

look at this movie - I think it's the right one:

7/14/03: Subaru Profile of Lance Armstrong - 2001 Tour Moments

Zack

Originally posted by ZackJones
Try olntv.com. The hand shake was featured in the 2001 tour summary they showed a few days ago.

look at this movie - I think it's the right one:

7/14/03: Subaru Profile of Lance Armstrong - 2001 Tour Moments

Zack


Many thanks to yourself and don....

mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa. . .

to quote Floyd : A momentary lapse of Sanity.


Marty

Originally posted by ZackJones
Try olntv.com. The hand shake was featured in the 2001 tour summary they showed a few days ago.

look at this movie - I think it's the right one:

7/14/03: Subaru Profile of Lance Armstrong - 2001 Tour Moments

Zack



I'm blind.... I can't see any any reference to 2001 on that site? Help!

Originally posted by lotek
to quote Floyd : A momentary lapse of Sanity.


Marty

"Which one's pink?"

in 1997 Virenque and Ullrich were in front together on the last climb of the day and it was clear that Virenque did not manage to get rid of Jan that day. Some miles before the finish line they started a short conversation in which Ullrich, as reply to Richard, made the well-known two finger gesture meaning "what will you pay me". Off course Virenque won the stage because overall leader Ullrich didn't participate in the final sprint. :rolleyes: