Rack System for New Minivan?

[golftdi]

Hello. My wife and I expect to purchase a new minivan soon--most likely either a Toyotal Sienna or a Honda Odyssey. For the past 15 years we've happily used Thule roof racks on our cars, but now that we're getting a minivan, we're thinking that it would be better to use a hitch-mounted rear rack. We need to be able to carry 4 bikes (and skis in winter).

What might be recommended? And should we buy the trailer hitch post & ball (do I have that right?) at the car dealer, when we buy the minivan, or as aftermarket?

Many thanks in advance!

[srp]

With a minivan, the roof rack is still a good option. We do it with a full size. Yea, it's a pain and I need a ladder but it's worth it when I can open up the back doors without taking hte bikes off.

[Fibber]

If you want to stay at ground level, a swing-away hitch rack is the best answer. I have the Yakama Full Swing, and it gives full access to the back of my Odyssey even when fully loaded. While I like Thule designs, their swing rack 996(?) has a straight, long skewer that may touch the ground on some slopes given the low mounting point of the hitch receiver.

Getting the hitch installed at the dealer can be expensive. Honda may pressure you into a full tow package upgrade which can push the price to $900. It is a warranty issue if you were to tow a trailer. I bought just the rack and did it myself. My 'protection' is that I didn't complete the wiring package as 'proof' that I am only using the hitch for a bike rack and not to tow.

[golftdi]

Thanks for the replies. My wife is adamant about staying at ground level, so the roof isn't really an option for the bikes (although I'll still put my Thule box up on the roof during ski season since I'm the skiing parent).

Fibber, having access to the back is important. Does the Yakama take up much space when it's not in use? Or do you put it on only when you want to use it? I don't expect that we'll ever tow a trailer and I sure don't want to pay $900 for a tow package upgrade.

[masiman]

If you can get a decent price on the hitch installation, then there is no reason not to go with the dealer option. However, I would not expect there to be any deal there ;).

We have the Sienna and are using the Thule system. It works quite well but as srp noted it is a pain to get awkard items up there, especially a tandem. The swing mount car top carriers help but I can tell you our tandem rear wheel is about 3-4" off the ground when in the swung position. Way less awkward than if I had to lift it over my head but still a little awkward. Thule recommends the LB50 bars but we went with the next size up (LB58?) and they fit perfect.

What you are talking about installing is the hitch. I have always heard that the rental places install hitches inexpensively. U-haul (http://www.uhaul.com/hitches/) definitely does it. Check their prices before doing it through the dealer. We asked for the hitch when we bought our Sienna, but I think the dealership was kind of clueless to the whole thing and we ended up not getting it. I have not found a need for it yet, but of course it would be nice to have the option. One thing to consider about the dealer install, is that they might make it look a little nicer. I have seen some minivan hitches where they just remove the lower part of the rear bumper. I don't know if they can make a cutout to expose only the parts necessary for the hitch to work. Something to investigate.

Do they make hitch mount ski racks? I am not in a skiing area anymore so I rarely see ski mounts and they are roof mounts when I do.

[golftdi]

Do they make hitch mount ski racks? I am not in a skiing area anymore so I rarely see ski mounts and they are roof mounts when I do.

Yes, there are hitch mounted ski racks, but I probably would use my Thule box on the roof.

[golftdi]

What you are talking about installing is the hitch. I have always heard that the rental places install hitches inexpensively. U-haul (http://www.uhaul.com/hitches/) definitely does it. Check their prices before doing it through the dealer.

Excellent suggestion.

[Fibber]

Rob,

The swing-away designs have a bar and hinge assembly that runs out to the passenger side of the van below the bumper. The downside of all of this mass is weight - like 50 lbs. It is a bit harder to store, lift and insert into the receiver when you want to use it. The 4 bike rack top drops down, so you could keep the assembly on the van and swing it out of the way when you want to open the hatch. We took bikes on vacation last year. The bikes were kept in our lodging, and the rack stayed lock to the hitch for the week with little difficulty.

I bought it from ORS, but it was about $75 cheaper in Spring '06.

http://www.orsracksdirect.com/yakima-8002403.html

Steve

[HardyWeinberg]

I like the Saris Bones (http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Bike_Rack/product_78464.shtml), it's got a jaws setup that could wrap around a trunk or spread flat for a minivan or station wagon (we have the latter). Lists for $150, can get it for very close to a C-note w/ coupons, sales, etc...

(interesting range of opinions at that review site, by the way, pretty much full spectrum, though avg rating across 91 reviews was 4/5)

d'oh! Didn't see you specify hitch. Or 4 bikes. I still think the bones is worth plugging, though.

[Underworld]

We have an '04 Sienna and I had an old Saris Bones (2 bike) rack that I easily adjusted to fit the minivan hatchback now that our family is getting to the age where the little ones can ride. The top leg rests on the window and the bottom two legs rest on the flat part of the door just above the fender. We've taken it up into the colorado mountains several times with 2 bikes and had no problems with loosening or chatter. My wife drives 70-80mph around turns on a 1.5 hr drive so if it can take that, its not a bad option. You can pick those up for $100 or so. I've heard the 3 bike rack offers a little more room to work with so that might be a way to go.

[golftdi]

Thanks to all the posters--this is very helpful info.

[andymac]

Install the hitch yourself, there are literally 4 bolts that use existing threaded holes in the vehicle frame on every hitch I have seen so far. I have installed hitches on 3 vehicles so far and only my Subaru Impreza was in the slightest bit problematic as I had to mess with the exhaust hanger.

I use a Yakima roof system and a Yakima hitch mount rack on my car so that in theory I could carry 6 bikes. The hitch mount rack tips back enough that I can open the hatch but the rack makes it awkward to put anything heavy into the back of the car so I often just pop it off, it only takes a few seconds. The 4+ bike hitch mount racks can be a pain to put more than 3 bikes on, you have to line up the pedals, bars and seats so the bikes can nest together otherwise there is no way you will get 4 on. I like the Yakima clamping system as it stops the bikes from swaying and scratching each other up, a lot of the racks have nothing that stops the bikes from bashing into each other. The Yakima also curves upward more than some of the others so you do not have a lot of ground clearance issues.
Don't go with the light hitch (Class 1 I think) if you are going to carry more than a couple bikes, the guidelines suggest that you can only carry 3 bikes safely on the light hitches.

With my wifes RAV4 the rack interferes with the door (which swings sideways) even when tipped back, so it is not ideal. While camping a few weeks ago I saw someone in the next site with a swing away hitch with 3 bikes on it and I thought it looked like just the ticket as it swung the bikes right around to the side of the van it was mounted on. However, I watched the guy swing the bikes around one time with a kickstand extended on the inside bike and put a huge scratch down the side of his van. Perhaps it was not fully extended.
I have seen a number of hitch mount ski racks at our local mountains, they look pretty good to me but the skis/boards seem to be subjected to a lot more dirt than when roof mounted. I would be inclined to roof mount the skis on just the factory bars.

[masiman]

Install the hitch yourself, there are literally 4 bolts that use existing threaded holes in the vehicle frame on every hitch I have seen so far. I have installed hitches on 3 vehicles so far and only my Subaru Impreza was in the slightest bit problematic as I had to mess with the exhaust hanger.


That is good information to know. I thought that the frame hitches were welded on. I guess they would be heavier class hitches. Have you ever needed to do bumper mods to mount the hitch? How much do the hitches generally run? Are they standard sizes, i.e. would you need to purchase an OEM or aftermarket hitch made to fit the vehicle?

[Fibber]

I did the hitch installation on both my '02 Subaru Outback, and my '02 Honda Odyssey. I prefer to go OEM on things like this, so bought the kits at the dealer parts counter. It is pretty easy to find a great deal on the internet as well, as many dealerships from most of the brands have opened internet sales branches. Hint: I like to keep my money local when possible, so I printed out the competitive prices from a few internet stores. I then asked for a meeting with my dealership parts department managers and asked them to match prices. Both dealerships did, bring the prices down competitive with aftermarket products from U-haul, Hidden Hitch, etc. So I got OEM quality and guaranteed fit, at the lowest possible price. I think I paid around $150 for the Subi (class II - 1.25"x1.25"), $200 for the Ody (class III - 2"x2")

Both kits required some bumper modification, as they fit high and tight to the body. They provide paper templates, and often there are score marks molded into the plastic indicating where to cut. Hack saw, tin snips or utility knife will usually work just fine. Hitches are heavy, so a second set of hands to heft it into place is a plus. I did both solo with the help of a floor jack.

In my case, the Subaru was relatively easy, and it slipped up into the underframe cavity for bolt in. Access to the connector for the wiring harness electrical interface required a little trim removal in the hatch area. Maybe 1.75 hours start to finish.

The Honda was a different story. The taillights and entire rear bumper had to be removed, and the exhaust system rear two hangers dropped in order to slide the unit up to the frame. And severe rust damaged the threaded holes, requiring me to go out for a tap that I didn't own to clean them up. The connector for the taillight interface was buried down in a side panel, and would have required major plastic removal to mount the unit per instructions. I cheated and changed a ground and mount spot, but opted to not complete it as part of my "no trailer towed with this vehicle" warranty protection. Call it a 5 hour ordeal. Honda demands that you also add a tranny & PS cooler if you tow, or you void your tranny warranty. Again, I am referring to the '99 to '04 second generation Ody, and new ones may be different.

Steve

[masiman]

I did the hitch installation on both my '02 Subaru Outback, and my '02 Honda Odyssey. I prefer to go OEM on things like this, so bought the kits at the dealer parts counter. It is pretty easy to find a great deal on the internet as well, as many dealerships from most of the brands have opened internet sales branches. Hint: I like to keep my money local when possible, so I printed out the competitive prices from a few internet stores. I then asked for a meeting with my dealership parts department managers and asked them to match prices. Both dealerships did, bring the prices down competitive with aftermarket products from U-haul, Hidden Hitch, etc. So I got OEM quality and guaranteed fit, at the lowest possible price. I think I paid around $150 for the Subi (class II - 1.25"x1.25"), $200 for the Ody (class III - 2"x2")

Both kits required some bumper modification, as they fit high and tight to the body. They provide paper templates, and often there are score marks molded into the plastic indicating where to cut. Hack saw, tin snips or utility knife will usually work just fine. Hitches are heavy, so a second set of hands to heft it into place is a plus. I did both solo with the help of a floor jack.

In my case, the Subaru was relatively easy, and it slipped up into the underframe cavity for bolt in. Access to the connector for the wiring harness electrical interface required a little trim removal in the hatch area. Maybe 1.75 hours start to finish.

The Honda was a different story. The taillights and entire rear bumper had to be removed, and the exhaust system rear two hangers dropped in order to slide the unit up to the frame. And severe rust damaged the threaded holes, requiring me to go out for a tap that I didn't own to clean them up. The connector for the taillight interface was buried down in a side panel, and would have required major plastic removal to mount the unit per instructions. I cheated and changed a ground and mount spot, but opted to not complete it as part of my "no trailer towed with this vehicle" warranty protection. Call it a 5 hour ordeal. Honda demands that you also add a tranny & PS cooler if you tow, or you void your tranny warranty. Again, I am referring to the '99 to '04 second generation Ody, and new ones may be different.

Steve

Excellent writeup Fibber. I would have thought they would use through bolts with nuts rather than threading into the chassis. From what I have seen on the Sienna I would suspect the same as your earlier Odyssey, more or less.

I'll have to find some time to crawl underneath my Sienna to see if they do something similar with the markings and mounting points.

[andymac]

Neither the hitch for my Subaru Impreza or my wife's RAV4 required any cutting of anything and neither was an OEM hitch. The one on the RAV4 was from U-Haul and the Subaru one I picked up at Rack Attack but don't recall who the manufacturer was. In the case of the RAV4 the installation took 15 minutes. Both sit up tight to the bumper and neither has ever bottomed out.

That said, both the Impreza and RAV4 have an awful lot less body molding than an Odyssey or an Outback so that could be the difference.

[Fibber]

Thank you, sir! Even though these are unibody vehicles, there are boxed subframes. Within these members are block reinforcements (essentially a welded in place nut) where the hitch assembly bolts on. So what you assumed is basically already provided.

Concerning the question on why OEM sometimes requires cutting of the bumper underskirt: If you compare side by side the OEM hitch vs. some of the aftermarket offerings, you will see a big difference in the heft and approach angle of the brackets that drop down from the frame and attach to the tube that spans the width of the vehicle under the bumper. If all you are using it for is to carry a bike rack, it really doesn't matter. If you might someday tow something real, it might. As an engineer, I don't always agree with decisions made by my brethrin at the auto companies (I could elaborate, but remember this is "BikeForums", not "AutoForums"), but I think that in the case of hitches, they set a pretty high standard that few others match.

[Fibber]

Oh, I forgot to mention this earlier. Some of the dealership web sites will allow you to preview the instructions for the accessory kits. This is extremely helpful as it allows you to decide up front if the product will meet your needs, and if you have the tools and mechanical ability to actually pull it off.

An excellent site with plenty of helpful information:
http://www.handa-accessories.com/odyext05.html

Here are some of the ones for the Odyssey:

Roof Bike Rack:
http://www.handa-accessories.com/odyssey/odybikeattach.pdf

Trailer Hitch:
http://www.handa-accessories.com/odyssey/07hitch.pdf

Warning from Honda about warranty:
http://www.handa-accessories.com/pibhitch.gif

[golftdi]

many thanks, Fibber. I am quite familiar with websites for our current car (VW Passat), but I'll need to become familiar with websites for whichever minivan we buy.

[golftdi]

We're buying a Sienna (picking it up this Saturday). We haven't yet decided what rack system we'll use. One thing at a time. Thanks again for the posts.

[Fibber]

Best of luck to you, and enjoy the new van!

Steve

[golftdi]

Thanks!

[Martian Biker]

We're buying a Sienna (picking it up this Saturday). We haven't yet decided what rack system we'll use. One thing at a time. Thanks again for the posts.

Visit http://www.siennaclub.org/forum/index.php?showforum=42. The consensus is that the Valley Hitch (a subsidary of Thule) provides the snuggest fit (i.e. max clearing height) to Sienna 2006 and up. Tool-free installation. I got mine (http://www.etrailer.com/productdetail.asp?partno=V82700&vehicleid=5647&yearfrom=2006&h=) from www.etrailer.com. 99c shipping on orders over $150.

[golftdi]

Thule recall-- http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=325328

[masiman]

Visit http://www.siennaclub.org/forum/index.php?showforum=42. The consensus is that the Valley Hitch (a subsidary of Thule) provides the snuggest fit (i.e. max clearing height) to Sienna 2006 and up. Tool-free installation. I got mine (http://www.etrailer.com/productdetail.asp?partno=V82700&vehicleid=5647&yearfrom=2006&h=) from www.etrailer.com. 99c shipping on orders over $150.

Did you mean 2004 and above? Did they change the undercarriage layout between 04 and 06? I did not see anything on the forum that indicated a change between 04 and 06 undercarriages. I did see a difference in 2WD and AWD though.

Thanks.

[Martian Biker]

Did you mean 2004 and above? Did they change the undercarriage layout between 04 and 06? I did not see anything on the forum that indicated a change between 04 and 06 undercarriages. I did see a difference in 2WD and AWD though.

Thanks.

The undercarriage layout is probably the same from 2004 and above, but I was talking about the snugness. When fit to a 2006/7 Sienna there is virtually zero space between the hitch receiver and the bumper. The snugness even surpasses that of Toyota's dual-port hitch receiver. Not sure about the pre-2006 models though.

[Shubox]

I am really interested in finding the best 4 / 5 bike rack hitch mounted. My main concern is rubbing bikes and scratching my "baby". Do these racks keep the bikes from touching each other? And swaying is a big problem from what I hear. I have a Dodge Durango older model.

[Martian Biker]

I am really interested in finding the best 4 / 5 bike rack hitch mounted. My main concern is rubbing bikes and scratching my "baby". Do these racks keep the bikes from touching each other? And swaying is a big problem from what I hear. I have a Dodge Durango older model.

Things like this (http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?productId=47910193&storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&&ext_cat=undefined&ext_cat=undefined) can prevent your bike from swaying and touching each other.

[golftdi]

With a minivan, the roof rack is still a good option. We do it with a full size. Yea, it's a pain and I need a ladder but it's worth it when I can open up the back doors without taking hte bikes off.

I'm actually now leaning toward a roof system--using 4 Yakima HighRollers. From Yakima's site it looks as if the HighRoller is about as easy to use as a roof rack could be. Now just have to convince my wife!

[masiman]

I'm actually now leaning toward a roof system--using 4 Yakima HighRollers. From Yakima's site it looks as if the HighRoller is about as easy to use as a roof rack could be. Now just have to convince my wife!

Get some kind of portable stepladder. It is a fairly tall roof. You can get a decent step up with the sider doors open, but it could still be more awkward than you like for bikes mounted in the middle.

[golftdi]

Get some kind of portable stepladder. It is a fairly tall roof. You can get a decent step up with the sider doors open, but it could still be more awkward than you like for bikes mounted in the middle.

Will do if we go roof route.

[golftdi]

This morning my wife and I went on a bike ride together to and from our local farmer's market. On the way back we saw a parked car with a Thule hitch rack, and my wife told me that a hitch mount is what she would want--definately not a roof system.

I've done some surfing at a Sienna site and it seems that Yakima hitch mounts are the preferred brand for Sienna, due to better road clearance than Thules. I'll go with the FullSwing--what the heck, I just spent $32K on the minivan might as well get the top-of-the line rack! EMS has a decent sale on these now, and I like their guaranty as well as our ability to return it to a nearby EMS store if for some reason we don't like it (which I doubt will happen).

As far as skis, we have a Thule Summit box on our Passat, and from a bit of reseach I did at the Thule site it appears that that box can by mounted right on the Sienna's OEM roof cross bars, so we'll use that in winter. :)

Thanks again to all the posters. I'm glad I spent the time to think this through.

[Fibber]

Rob,

I bought mine thru ORS Racks Direct. At the time, their pricing was the best on the Fullswing.

Get the van yet? In another year or two it will be time for us to think about it again.

Steve

[zonatandem]

Have you considered carrying the bikes (front wheel removed) INSIDE the mini-van?

[Fibber]

Our Honda has a pretty cavernous interior, but I have found it difficult to do with three adult bikes without also sliding the two middle captains chairs all the way forward, or better yet, removing one. We did that once recently (three people - three bikes), rear seat stowed, right center seat removed. I think the rear rack is easier to deal with in the long run.

[golftdi]

We picked up the minivan on Saturday. Saturday evening I put about 150 miles on it. My initial impression is very high, but of course we in the honeymoon phase. It's the first minivan we've owned--up until this the largest vehicle we've had was a VW Passat wagon. We're looking forward to take it up to Vermont in August for a week's vacation, with our bikes. My wife and I used to live in VT ,and when we first dated we used to ride together on the Burlington bikepath in the evenings after work. I'm looking forward to ride the bikepath again, this time with our 2 kids with us (ages 9 and 13). :)

[Fibber]

The Ody is our third minivan. I drive a Subaru Outback, and we had two Toyota wagons before that. I personally don't find much attraction to SUV, but that is a personal decision.

BVT, eh? I work for a really big computer company, and our sister plant is down the road. You probably have heard of them.... When I was up there last on a visit, I went to the museum, then walked a section of the Lake bikepath. Beautiful, especially around sunset. I have to take the kids up there for a ride as well.

[masiman]

We've had our Sienna almost 4 years now. I still really like the car. However, I have never felt that a car defines my masculinity as some friends and acquaintances do :). Things I really like about it:
1) We can seat 8 (7 in family)
2) Room for decent cargo with van full of people (groceries, vacations, etc.)
3) Good gas mileage
4) We can put noisy kids all the way in the back and have grown up conversations in front
5) They can watch their portable DVD (long trips only) and we can listen to what we want up front
6) auto door
7) small kids can get in and out on their own.
8) Easy to remove seats to create a giant bed for our annual drive-in movie night

Things I don't like:
1) Interior lights don't auto shut off after 20 minutes even though the manual says they will. The kids have twice drained the battery. We generally disable the interior lights now.
2) Left sliding door will not lock open if the sliding door window is partially down. This has potential for a serious accident with one of the kids getting smashed by the door.
3) Middle row seats are heavy. I don't like carrying them somewhere but honestly I'd rather have them heavy, well built and hard to move than light and broken :).

Based on your cost I think you bought the XLE model and likely have all power doors, so #2 will not be an issue for you. We only have the right slider powered.

It's a really great car. I am sure the Odyssey would be just as nice.

[golftdi]

Yes, we bought the XLE. The $32K was the out-the-door price, including 7% NJ sales tax. I was happy with the deal.

I have no problem with my masculinity and driving a minivan.

I agree that the Odyssey would be just as nice.

Gee, is this a bike forum or did I get lost on the Internet? ;)

[golftdi]

The Ody is our third minivan. I drive a Subaru Outback, and we had two Toyota wagons before that. I personally don't find much attraction to SUV, but that is a personal decision.

BVT, eh? I work for a really big computer company, and our sister plant is down the road. You probably have heard of them.... When I was up there last on a visit, I went to the museum, then walked a section of the Lake bikepath. Beautiful, especially around sunset. I have to take the kids up there for a ride as well.

Yep I've heard of 'em. I also work for a big company, based in Philly. Got a new office tower going up with our name on it.

Vermont is wonderful, but job opportunities are not plentiful, plus neither my wife nor I have any family up there and we'd like our kids to be closer to their grandparents. (My wife's family is from PHilly.)