Electric Bikes - frame mounted with gearing

i'd like to put together a frame mounted motor running seperately off a 3 speed hub with a seperate crank chain and front deraileur i need a cheap l or xl frame - i'm 6'3'' the mongoose currie looks like a good frame
anyone have experience with frame mounting? i don't need to go faster than 20-25 but need the gears for steep hills without wasting alot of power (like hub bikes do) 600 watt powerpack motor would be great but nothing over 750 watts.

any suggestions/help appreciated

kisshu

i'd like to put together a frame mounted motor running seperately off a 3 speed hub with a seperate crank chain and front deraileur i need a cheap l or xl frame - i'm 6'3'' the mongoose currie looks like a good frame
anyone have experience with frame mounting? i don't need to go faster than 20-25 but need the gears for steep hills without wasting alot of power (like hub bikes do) 600 watt powerpack motor would be great but nothing over 750 watts.

any suggestions/help appreciated

kisshu I can't see BMC motors having the torque without a added gear reduction or jack shaft chain and sprockets like on the currie USPD.Power robbing and noisy. At worst it would still be more efficient than any hub motor without pedaling.How long before the tiny freewheel clutch burns up would be a concern..

I keep hearing talk about "more efficient" but no actual number posted. Where are the Wh/km figures?

I keep hearing talk about "more efficient" but no actual number posted. Where are the Wh/km figures? If you listen to the videos you may find out.You have asked before and Im tired of telling you.Look in the archives of the forum you kicked me out of.

Perhaps you should try reading replies in forums where you post things.

You know, kinda like this: http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=4856610&postcount=17


It's also already repeatedly been pointed out to you, and on several forums, how simple hub motor motorcycles own yours as for both hill climb and flat land efficiency.

EG: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1177&start=0

For the people who just joined us, the charts in that link was originally posted on Power-Assist so very long ago. I'll also yet again point out that given how Maui's videos do not show before and after readings of the watt meter on his motorcycle, the videos are useless for demonstrating actual energy consumption.

If you listen to the videos you may find out.You have asked before and Im tired of telling you.Look in the archives of the forum you kicked me out of.

You mean the videos where you just say numbers out of thin air?

You mean the videos where you just say numbers out of thin air? My thin air figures are something you can copy in your drain brain or try to achive.The truth is that you will not ever match them with any hub motor ebike.I'm sure you can pump up any hub motor to go fast and waste expensive batteries fast.But lets see how far you can go without pedaling on a round trip averaging 30 mph or more on the complete trip in one hour or so video. You may convince your girl scouts by your BS with your GS hub cookies but where is the REAL efficiency in your heavy chineese clunker motors ?

My thin air figures are something you can copy in your drain brain or try to achive.The truth is that you will not ever match them with any hub motor ebike.I'm sure you can pump up any hub motor to go fast and waste expensive batteries fast.But lets see how far you can go without pedaling on a round trip averaging 30 mph or more on the complete trip in one hour or so video. You may convince your girl scouts by your BS with your GS hub cookies but where is the REAL efficiency in your heavy chineese clunker motors ?

How much more than 30mph? Do you have such a video, with data visible in the frame?

How much more than 30mph? Do you have such a video, with data visible in the frame? You bore me.

You bore me.

Dodging the facts as usual. Like I said, the truth hurts...

hi randy, so what do you recomend? i don't want a full suspension bike because the suspension eats my pedal torque and it feels squishy riding . what frame, motor, mounting, gearing do you recomend. are you building motors for sale, are you selling e-bikes? i don't want to spend alot on the batteries right away - just someting to get me going for now - does the mongoose frame have possibilities or can you recomend another inexpensive L or XL frame?

thanks

BTW kisshu, you may want to look at the Charger, overall it's rather close to what you were describing. Central mounted motor drives through a 7 speed nexus.


Description of the bike, etc:
http://www.electric-bikes.com/charger.htm


More detailed pics of the guts here:
http://charger.renlabs.com/gallery/charger

hi randy, so what do you recomend? i don't want a full suspension bike because the suspension eats my pedal torque and it feels squishy riding . what frame, motor, mounting, gearing do you recomend. are you building motors for sale, are you selling e-bikes? i don't want to spend alot on the batteries right away - just someting to get me going for now - does the mongoose frame have possibilities or can you recomend another inexpensive L or XL frame?

thanks That's a tough one.Not the bike,any bike will work.No one that I know of sells or makes a light weight motor with the size,shape,power or efficiency that I desire.If I did not make my own the way I wanted it I would NOT buy or even use any ebikes that are now on the market even if it was given to me.Ebiking is a novel that manufactures have been far from making efficient, long lasting or reasonable in price for what you get.If I did not know about electronics and wanted to save on gas commuting and ditch the car right now I think my choice would be a Honda Moped.It would be cheaper in the long run than any ebike on the market to operate and to have someone maintain.Lead batteries with a hub motor would never be a option I would ever consider.And the volume prices for ebike lithium packs wiil not happen untill a quality volume of ebikes are built.It's a catch 22. you need good food to feed the horse before it is born.

which pancake motors are suitable and how much do you sell your motors for?

which pancake motors are suitable and how much do you sell your motors for?

The motor is probably a build-it-yourself affair unfortunately.

Perhaps you should try reading replies in forums where you post things.

You know, kinda like this: http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=4856610&postcount=17



For the people who just joined us, the charts in that link was originally posted on Power-Assist so very long ago. I'll also yet again point out that given how Maui's videos do not show before and after readings of the watt meter on his motorcycle, the videos are useless for demonstrating actual energy consumption. Showing wattmeter readings are useless too.Anyone can callibrate a watt meter to give figures that they want to show.Showing the size of the batteries tells the story.

Randy, i don't think it should be hard to find an investor to produce your motor at $100 a pop; but in the mean time i would like to build an e-bike within the year and could you please help me with selecting a pancake motor as you suggested - i don't know anything about them makes, torque, specs etc..

also, how much would it cost you to build another prototype motor?

That's a tough one.Not the bike,any bike will work.No one that I know of sells or makes a light weight motor with the size,shape,power or efficiency that I desire.If I did not make my own the way I wanted it I would NOT buy or even use any ebikes that are now on the market even if it was given to me.

It really is almost no help to people for you to sit there and say, "there all junk," about every motor. Particularly when you can not offer a detailed alternative (I say detailed because I have become tired of the, "the only good motor is my one-off, undocumented, untested, volcano racer.").

If the only choices are bad, then, if we still wish to proceeded, we must choose from the best of the poor alternatives. It really becomes tiresome hearing you, sitting in your volcano of enlightenment, mocking all others. You continually refuse to share this secret knowledge that you have obtained. I am beginning to join the others and doubting that you have any information to share.



If I did not know about electronics and wanted to save on gas commuting and ditch the car right now I think my choice would be a Honda Moped.It would be cheaper in the long run than any ebike on the market to operate and to have someone maintain.

Honda has not sold a moped in the mainland US market since the 80's. I would not recommend a twenty year old two-stroke engine to anyone who is actually looking for transportation.

You continue to insist that the imaginary, or unavailable, solution is the only workable solution. The rest of us live in the real world.

It really is almost no help to people for you to sit there and say, "there all junk," about every motor. Particularly when you can not offer a detailed alternative (I say detailed because I have become tired of the, "the only good motor is my one-off, undocumented, untested, volcano racer.").

If the only choices are bad, then, if we still wish to proceeded, we must choose from the best of the poor alternatives. It really becomes tiresome hearing you, sitting in your volcano of enlightenment, mocking all others. You continually refuse to share this secret knowledge that you have obtained. I am beginning to join the others and doubting that you have any information to share.




Honda has not sold a moped in the mainland US market since the 80's. I would not recommend a twenty year old two-stroke engine to anyone who is actually looking for transportation.

You continue to insist that the imaginary, or unavailable, solution is the only workable solution. The rest of us live in the real world.

4 years later and the tune hasn't changed. Randy will go wherever he can find an audience, and spout off the same lines over and over like a broken record until he wears out his welcome. I predict that history will repeat itself.

Kisshu: Where do you have space to mount the motor? Are you ok with hanging it off the upper chain stay like a USPD?

yeah thats the flaky thing about Randy - i can't get any straight answers- he knows but won't tell; i don't think he is as interested in advancing e-bike design as he is in maintaining his iron grasp over his Title of worlds fastest Maui volcano climber - thats the real reason why he won't help anyone else build a fast bike like he has or offer to build and sell his motor design:p but to be fair he has trickeled pieces of info like good hubs to use and sprockets, throttles, etc. maybe someone (Randy-that would be nice of you ) could gather all the info and post it so its usefull.

Lowell i don't care too much where its mounted as long as i can run it through a geared hub and get at least 3 spds - randy suggests high torque low rpm pancake motors - high torque low rpm sounds practical because when i'm in a speed gear with my 1/4 t0 1/2 hp legs i'm not doing high rpms - as long as you have gearing torque not rpms seems to be the important requirement.

yeah thats the flaky thing about Randy - i can't get any straight answers- he knows but won't tell; i don't think he is as interested in advancing e-bike design as he is in maintaining his iron grasp over his Title of worlds fastest Maui volcano climber - thats the real reason why he won't help anyone else build a fast bike like he has or offer to build and sell his motor design:p but to be fair he has trickeled pieces of info like good hubs to use and sprockets, throttles, etc. maybe someone (Randy-that would be nice of you ) could gather all the info and post it so its usefull.

Lowell i don't care too much where its mounted as long as i can run it through a geared hub and get at least 3 spds - randy suggests high torque low rpm pancake motors - high torque low rpm sounds practical because when i'm in a speed gear with my 1/4 t0 1/2 hp legs i'm not doing high rpms - as long as you have gearing torque not rpms seems to be the important requirement.
There ARE such motors that any ebike manufacture can obtain at a great price by the 1000s. but no one has.Why? Where is the volume market for small pancake size 750 to 1000 watt motors with a single reduction? Not ebikes!

There ARE such motors that any ebike manufacture can obtain at a great price by the 1000s. but no one has.Why? Where is the volume market for small pancake size 750 to 1000 watt motors with a single reduction? Not ebikes!

where are these "pancake" motors please. give me a link a brand ,etc i can't find them!

and how much would it cost to build your motor what are the specs?
(not that you will actually answer a direct question!)

he knows but won't tell

He tried to get his motor produced once and when the venture failed miserably, he blamed his partners. I don't think he knows, and therefore, he can't tell.

where are these "pancake" motors please. give me a link a brand ,etc i can't find them!

and how much would it cost to build your motor what are the specs?
(not that you will actually answer a direct question!)

Wondering what does EbikeHawaii mean "pancake motor" !?
Seems haven't seen on in his post !?

Wondering what does EbikeHawaii mean "pancake motor" !?
Seems haven't seen on in his post !?

You cook pancakes on it when it overheats, at least that's what Ken Trough said.