Levi earned a lot of respect from me today. He almost snagged second overall with an incredible TT and he finished on the podium, and the last part of the tour he was riding for Contador.

He gives interviews when asked and comes across as a nice guy.

This has to be the highlight of his career.

Way to go Levi!

On the toughest mountain stage of the Tour, Levi beats them all.
On the most important TT of the Tour, Levi beats them all.
Yet he's not in yellow. Why? That should answer the question in this thread's title.

Did you hear the interview before today's TT. He actually said (I'm paraphrasing) "I've had good time trials and bad time trials, but it's human nature to remember the bad ones so that's what I keep thinking about". The dude admits he's the "glass is half empty" type.

He gains on Cadel at every time check through the whole TT, then... gives up. He actually loses time in the final 5k!

And now that he's only 8 seconds behind second place on GC, and their are 32 seconds of time bonuses tomorrow, and he's on the strongest/fastest team by far, what does he say? "Cadel does not have to worry". "I'm not going to pull a Vinokourov on him.". Q.E.D. Lazy Loser.

Perhaps the most ludicrous (and there have been MANY!) post I've seen in this forum.

... Brad

Perhaps the most ludicrous (and there have been MANY!) post I've seen in this forum.

... Brad

Just consider the source.. :lol:

Levi earned a lot of respect from me today. He almost snagged second overall with an incredible TT and he finished on the podium, and the last part of the tour he was riding for Contador.

He gives interviews when asked and comes across as a nice guy.

This has to be the highlight of his career.

Way to go Levi!

Maybe if Levi had been treating the TDF as a race and not a training ride he would be on the TOP step of the podium. It would be so nice to see that now after having seen what we HAVE seen in this tour. If Levi could ride for himself like he did for Contador he would TRULY be a winner. He is a NICE guy, but he has no guts when it comes to his racing. the TDF started on July 7, Levi's TDF started when he started working for Contador.

Is that who we as americans really are. Riding someone's wheel or waiting to the last minute to do something about the situation at hand.

Ive been looking for this type of inspired ride from him, and he came through today. I will forever be a LL fan.

Maybe if Levi had been treating the TDF as a race and not a training ride he would be on the TOP step of the podium. It would be so nice to see that now after having seen what we HAVE seen in this tour. If Levi could ride for himself like he did for Contador he would TRULY be a winner. He is a NICE guy, but he has no guts when it comes to his racing. the TDF started on July 7, Levi's TDF started when he started working for Contador.

Is that who we as americans really are. Riding someone's wheel or waiting to the last minute to do something about the situation at hand.

Let's see. Millions of "serious" cyclists around the world. Hundreds of thousands who race on a regular basis. Over a thousand "pro" cyclist involved in stage racing. Less than 200 of them invited to the Tour de France. And, Levi is finishing 30 seconds behind the Yellow Jersey.

Yeah, no guts. Levi is just a big nothing. I'd sure hate to be third best in the world at something...being third best in the world is a sure sign that someone is a gutless failure.

Maybe if Levi had been treating the TDF as a race and not a training ride he would be on the TOP step of the podium. It would be so nice to see that now after having seen what we HAVE seen in this tour. If Levi could ride for himself like he did for Contador he would TRULY be a winner. He is a NICE guy, but he has no guts when it comes to his racing. the TDF started on July 7, Levi's TDF started when he started working for Contador.

Is that who we as americans really are. Riding someone's wheel or waiting to the last minute to do something about the situation at hand.
:beer:

Exactly.

Ive been looking for this type of inspired ride from him, and he came through today. I will forever be a LL fan.
Me too. But where the heck was this inspiration in the alps and the first TT?

On the toughest mountain stage of the Tour, Levi beats them all.
On the most important TT of the Tour, Levi beats them all.
Yet he's not in yellow. Why? That should answer the question in this thread's title.

Did you hear the interview before today's TT. He actually said (I'm paraphrasing) "I've had good time trials and bad time trials, but it's human nature to remember the bad ones so that's what I keep thinking about". The dude admits he's the "glass is half empty" type.

He gains on Cadel at every time check through the whole TT, then... gives up. He actually loses time in the final 5k!

And now that he's only 8 seconds behind second place on GC, and their are 32 seconds of time bonuses tomorrow, and he's on the strongest/fastest team by far, what does he say? "Cadel does not have to worry". "I'm not going to pull a Vinokourov on him.". Q.E.D. Lazy Loser.

He admits half empty attitude...will you admit to " they're never good enough attitude " that seems to relate to those who aren't that kinda dominant winner.Seems me that Levi rode a PHENOMINAL TT. One of the top three EVER I believe in the TDF. Dominated every time check and just slowed by seconds at the end. Perhaps a perfect...I mean perfect execution of a long TT...yet not flashy enough for HH. That would seem to reinforce a preconcieved opinion rather than judging the facts.

Then he states he will adhere to the historical ethos of a 100+ year event rather than placing his personal wants first and is judged poorly by HH. This, to me, is the kind of attitude that I try to raise my kids and teach those I coach to avoid... placing personal wants above ethos and history of team and the event. Thats one of the kind of attitudes that leads to doping...personal over team and sports goals.

I say " well done " to Levi, reminds me of how smart Lemond rode when lacking full team support

Let's see. Millions of "serious" cyclists around the world. Hundreds of thousands who race on a regular basis. Over a thousand "pro" cyclist involved in stage racing. Less than 200 of them invited to the Tour de France. And, Levi is finishing 30 seconds behind the Yellow Jersey.

Yeah, no guts. Levi is just a big nothing. I'd sure hate to be third best in the world at something...being third best in the world is a sure sign that someone is a gutless failure.
Levi got third in the Vuelta in 2001, and that was while working for Heras. That's almost six years ago. He should have gotten third in the Tour in 2002-2004 years, and been on top of the podium for the last couple of years.

Levi has always considered "top 10" success, and "top 5" as a wish. He fell asleep at the wheel and lost even 5th to Vino a couple of years ago through final stage time bonuses. For him, getting on the podium, much less in yellow, was merely a dream - something he didn't really believe he could do. The problem is it WAS something he could do. The only reason he didn't was because he himself didn't believe it.

I was hoping that winning the tour of germany and the tour of CA would somehow transform him in this respect, but no. And this was abundantly obvious in this year's tour. He practically leaped on the opportunity to work for AC and not have to have the pressure of being the leader. Yet he turned out to be the strongest in the mountains and the TT. Look back at this tour. Why the lack of inspiration in the alps? Why the lackluster performance in the first TT? Why was he alone and without teammates when his chain jammed that day? He had to work to get back, and even eat 10 seconds in penalty for being pushed by the mechanic in the car. Why was he fetching bottles for AC? Vino was down 30 minutes on Kloden and he still wouldn't fetch bottles for him. WTF? Every second counts.

This "lazy loser" evaluation of Levi is not made relative to you and me, or anyone else. Levis is a "lazy loser" relative to his own true potential.

Levi got third in the Vuelta in 2001, and that was while working for Heras. That's almost six years ago. He should have gotten third in the Tour in 2002-2004 years, and been on top of the podium for the last couple of years.

Levi has always considered "top 10" success, and "top 5" as a wish. He fell asleep at the wheel and lost even 5th to Vino a couple of years ago through final stage time bonuses. For him, getting on the podium, much less in yellow, was merely a dream - something he didn't really believe he could do. The problem is it WAS something he could do. The only reason he didn't was because he himself didn't believe it.

I was hoping that winning the tour of germany and the tour of CA would somehow transform him in this respect, but no. And this was abundantly obvious in this year's tour. He practically leaped on the opportunity to work for AC and not have to have the pressure of being the leader. Yet he turned out to be the strongest in the mountains and the TT. Look back at this tour. Why the lack of inspiration in the alps? Why the lackluster performance in the first TT? Why was he alone and without teammates when his chain jammed that day? He had to work to get back, and even eat 10 seconds in penalty for being pushed by the mechanic in the car. Why was he fetching bottles for AC? Vino was down 30 minutes on Kloden and he still wouldn't fetch bottles for him. WTF? Every second counts.

This "lazy loser" evaluation of Levi is not made relative to you and me, or anyone else. Levis is a "lazy loser" relative to his own true potential.

I don't understand your take at all. The real "lazy losers" in this tour were the chicken and Vino and Ullrich and Basso.

Just because Levi doesn't do "all the right things" you expect of him does not make him a loser in my book. I think he put it all out there and didn't blow up on one day to put him at risk the next day UNLIKE Vino. Great tour for him in my mind.

Also how do you really know what his true potential is?

I don't understand your take at all. The real "lazy losers" in this tour were the chicken and Vino and Ullrich and Basso.

Just because Levi doesn't do "all the right things" you expect of him does not make him a loser in my book. I think he put it all out there and didn't blow up on one day to put him at risk the next day UNLIKE Vino. Great tour for him in my mind.

Also how do you really know what his true potential is?
Ras, Ullrich and Basso never tested positive, just like LL. And Vino tested clean for years. Not sure how you differentiate them from LL unless you're assuming not just for legal purposes, but for practical purposes, that everyone is really truly innocent of doping unless they are proven to have doped.

As far as knowing what his true potential is... he showed us today and in the pyrenees, particular on the last climb. He showed us his true potential at the Tour of CA this year and the Tour of Germany a couple of years ago. And that is most certainly not what he showed us in the prologue, the first TT, or the alps. I'm just saying...

Jeez where do I start?

1) Levi has said from the beginning he has a limited amount of energy to attack. Why do you think he can attack whenever he wants and not pay for it later. If he had attacked in the Alps he likely would not have ridden the time trial today in 1st place.

2) To his credit, and I admit I was suspicious Levi said the Alps don't suit his climbing style. He said he always suffers in the Alps. He said he would do better in the Pyrenees, and he did fairly well.

3) You claim to want to be rid of doping in cycling, but if a rider doesn't go balls to the wall in every stage you brand him a loser. How can he go all out in the TDF everyday without doping? Which is it you want?

4) Several riders crashed in the first time trail including 2 of Levi's teammates. I suspect Levi figured it would be better to lose a minute than to risk broken bones.

Richard

Ras, Ullrich and Basso never tested positive, just like LL. And Vino tested clean for years. Not sure how you differentiate them from LL unless you're assuming not just for legal purposes, but for practical purposes, that everyone is really truly innocent of doping unless they are proven to have doped.

As far as knowing what his true potential is... he showed us today and in the pyrenees, particular on the last climb. He showed us his true potential at the Tour of CA this year and the Tour of Germany a couple of years ago. And that is most certainly not what he showed us in the prologue, the first TT, or the alps. I'm just saying...

I wonder which will be forgotten first--Levi's place on the podium tomorrow or some anonymous internet thread?

I am amazed by Levi's ride today. In reality he had nothing to lose so he could go all out, something I've felt that he doesn't always do. Still it was a great TT, possibly something he can build on.

I wonder which will be forgotten first--Levi's place on the podium tomorrow or some anonymous internet thread?
Brutal, but ...

:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:

I am amazed by Levi's ride today. In reality he had nothing to lose so he could go all out, something I've felt that he doesn't always do. Still it was a great TT, possibly something he can build on.
Bingo, that's all that I meant by "lazy loser".
I love the guy. I wish him the best. In fact, there is nothing I would love more than to see him win. It's just so frustrating because he appears to have the physical ability to do it, but it's his mental attitude that holds him back.

Maybe he should have went all out like Sastre did on stage 16. Again do you want clean riders, or all out attacks daily?

Richard

Bingo, that's all that I meant by "lazy loser".
I love the guy. I wish him the best. In fact, there is nothing I would love more than to see him win. It's just so frustrating because he appears to have the physical ability to do it, but it's his mental attitude that holds him back.

You don't think Sastre was clean, do you Richard?

Whatever the source of the "inspiration" today and the last climb of the pyrenees, it would be nice if... WHOA. I just figured it out! He knew from the beginning that he had a limited supply of his own blood in storage, and he would have to be careful about when and where he used it. So he saved it for the Pyrenees and the final TT! Apparently, he used every drop of it today!

Got a better explanation?

Tell us how you would do it HH, since obviously you are much more qualified to ride the TDF than Levi...at least in your own mind. Don't you have a bike lane debate or something in A&S to attend to? :rolleyes:


Burn!

But not as hot as Levi smoking the competition in that time trial. Really, Helmet Head, you should study the racers a bit more carefully. I had Levi picked to win the Tour; he came in third. That ain't bad at all. Levi said it himself, he doesn't do attacks like a Rasmussen or a Soler or Contador. But he does win races.

Burn!

But not as hot as Levi smoking the competition in that time trial. Really, Helmet Head, you should study the racers a bit more carefully. I had Levi picked to win the Tour; he came in third. That ain't bad at all.
It's bad because he should have won, and would have if he could have gotten his negative/loser thinking out of the way.

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy for him. He sure as hell achieves much more of his potential than I do! But, as a fan, it's frustrating to see him not do as well as he seems like he should be able to do.

And, at 5 pages, it obviously makes for an interesting topic.

That is a possibility, but there are others also which are reasonable. Most riders even pros can't attack on every stage. They have to pick and choose their moments. Levi is not a young buck either.

You still have not answered whether you want a clean tour or riders that can attack constantly.

Richard

You don't think Sastre was clean, do you Richard?

Whatever the source of the "inspiration" today and the last climb of the pyrenees, it would be nice if... WHOA. I just figured it out! He knew from the beginning that he had a limited supply of his own blood in storage, and he would have to be careful about when and where he used it. So he saved it for the Pyrenees and the final TT! Apparently, he used every drop of it today!

Got a better explanation?

Does anyone get the feeling this thread was started by a troll?

Does anyone get the feeling this thread was started by a troll?

Please stop feeding him.

I am amazed by Levi's ride today. In reality he had nothing to lose so he could go all out, something I've felt that he doesn't always do. Still it was a great TT, possibly something he can build on.

I'm happy for him, as I thought that this tour he would do well (in fact, I thought it'd be between him and Kloden).

Still, I don't think there's much to build on. He's 33 and there's a 'wave of the future' that'll be the focus next year, in my not-so-humble opinion. This is it.

It's bad because he should have won, and would have if he could have gotten his negative/loser thinking out of the way.

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy for him. He sure as hell achieves much more of his potential than I do! But, as a fan, it's frustrating to see him not do as well as he seems like he should be able to do.

And, at 5 pages, it obviously makes for an interesting topic.

5 pages just means you keep banging your head against the wall trying to prove your initial point. It is obvious over 80 percent of the people disagree with you.

And you have no idea what his potential is. Lance didn't win every stage either and he did his attacks in measured doses. Why didn't Lance race and win the other grand tours? The last dominant year around rider was Eddy. If you measured riders against them, then they would all be a bunch of losers.

Give it a rest. Levi did better than 186 other riders. If Cadel was 10 seconds slower and Contador would have blown up Levi would be in yellow. I am sure he wouldn't lose any sleep over you calling him a loser.

5 pages just means you keep banging your head against the wall trying to prove your initial point. It is obvious over 80 percent of the people disagree with you.

And you have no idea what his potential is. Lance didn't win every stage either and he did his attacks in measured doses. Why didn't Lance race and win the other grand tours? The last dominant year around rider was Eddy. If you measured riders against them, then they would all be a bunch of losers.

Give it a rest. Levi did better than 186 other riders. If Cadel was 10 seconds slower and Contador would have blown up Levi would be in yellow. I am sure he wouldn't lose any sleep over you calling him a loser.
80% disagree with me? Apparently you think I voted for Lazy Loser. I did not.

Unfortunately "fans" are some of the most critical and thoughtless people out there. All they want to see is thier boy win. Levi raced for years and never even won a TDF stage though he always showed potential. It may have been him getting hooked up with the right team and just his timing that allowed him to reach his better performances this year.

Who knows. Floyd Landis has been tested to have a higher VO max than Lance yet he never could win when Lance was racing. Why not? Personality differences? Training not yet optimized? Personal discipline? Help from team?

I think that to actually do your best you have to have had enough good performances that you know what you can actually do compared to the best that are out there. Sometimes this takes a while to happen. It takes a lot of things to fall into place to get your best performance.

For some guys like Lance he just wanted to win more than most guys and he had the physical ability and the brains to figure out how to do it.

80% disagree with me? Apparently you think I voted for Lazy Loser. I did not.


So just how did you vote?

So just how did you vote?
I didn't vote. Look for yourself.

Unfortunately "fans" are some of the most critical and thoughtless people out there. All they want to see is thier boy win. Levi raced for years and never even won a TDF stage though he always showed potential. It may have been him getting hooked up with the right team and just his timing that allowed him to reach his better performances this year.

Who knows. Floyd Landis has been tested to have a higher VO max than Lance yet he never could win when Lance was racing. Why not? Personality differences? Training not yet optimized? Personal discipline? Help from team?

I think that to actually do your best you have to have had enough good performances that you know what you can actually do compared to the best that are out there. Sometimes this takes a while to happen. It takes a lot of things to fall into place to get your best performance.

For some guys like Lance he just wanted to win more than most guys and he had the physical ability and the brains to figure out how to do it.
Agreed. Well said.

"Levi Leipheimer uncorked the time trial of his life to win Saturday's time trial shootout in Angouleme, but a controversial 10-second penalty in stage 12 will likely cost him second place on the Tour de France podium."

http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/new...s/12994.0.html

Unfortunately "fans" are some of the most critical, thoughtless, and least knowledgable people out there.


I fixed it for you.

I love people evauating the performances of people about whom they know nothing, under circumstances about which they have never come close to experiencing.

I'll take Lance's evaluation of Levi's performance that he offered while on Versus this morning.

Some of you...we'll see you next July for your once a year appearance. Take heart...football season's coming. You can be experts on that, next.

:beer::)

I didn't vote. Look for yourself.

Why didn't you say that earlier???? You left us with the impression that you voted. All your arguments have been against Levi.

After all didn't you start this thread with a poll?

Let's see. Millions of "serious" cyclists around the world. Hundreds of thousands who race on a regular basis. Over a thousand "pro" cyclist involved in stage racing. Less than 200 of them invited to the Tour de France. And, Levi is finishing 30 seconds behind the Yellow Jersey.

Yeah, no guts. Levi is just a big nothing. I'd sure hate to be third best in the world at something...being third best in the world is a sure sign that someone is a gutless failure.

hmmm... 3rd rate is what Levi is. That's why hes in that spot still today. The talk before Levi went to France was that he could win it. He even said he would like to but then came back with a "we will see how it works out" and his performance showed it. Yeah, he's 3rd to 189 other guys, but he let some Spanish kid win the glory for spain in his 2nd Tour. No guts no glory. 3rd place is still the 2nd Loser.

hmmm... 3rd rate is what Levi is. That's why hes in that spot still today. The talk before Levi went to France was that he could win it. He even said he would like to but then came back with a "we will see how it works out" and his performance showed it. Yeah, he's 3rd to 189 other guys, but he let some Spanish kid win the glory for spain in his 2nd Tour. No guts no glory. 3rd place is still the 2nd Loser.

Me thinks


http://eatourbrains.com/EoB/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/troll.jpg

No guts no glory. 3rd place is still the 2nd Loser.

I really hope you don't have any children.

hmmm... 3rd rate is what Levi is. That's why hes in that spot still today. The talk before Levi went to France was that he could win it. He even said he would like to but then came back with a "we will see how it works out" and his performance showed it. Yeah, he's 3rd to 189 other guys, but he let some Spanish kid win the glory for spain in his 2nd Tour. No guts no glory. 3rd place is still the 2nd Loser.

Can we rate you? Please?

None of the above equates him being a serious GC contender. Yet this is what Versus and US cycling mags tried to sell us before the race.

LMAO..you wouldn't know a GC contender from a certain body part below the small of your back (nicest thing I could say before I edited out what I typed the first time)...

You are the one that was stunned to learn that Rebellin was not a favorite for the Giro after he won a one day race...

I can't stand it. You are the funniest guy out here...:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

hmmm... 3rd rate is what Levi is. That's why hes in that spot still today. The talk before Levi went to France was that he could win it. He even said he would like to but then came back with a "we will see how it works out" and his performance showed it. Yeah, he's 3rd to 189 other guys, but he let some Spanish kid win the glory for spain in his 2nd Tour. No guts no glory. 3rd place is still the 2nd Loser.

Joins the board in October 04 and has six posts.

See you next July...

Frankly, there will be a lot more bandwidth next week.

Joins the board in October 04 and has six posts.

See you next July...

Frankly, there will be a lot more bandwidth next week.

Yep.....and all 6 in August of 06 or July this year regarding the TdF or Lance doping...or some other bollocks.

Ya gotta love guys like this.:rolleyes:

Glad this is the only forum I frequent.

Cheers,

Brian

Yes, you are right, there is a difference. Look up last years two TT's then, if you want a better guide. Hint: You are going to have to look a little farther down the list to find Levi.


Sooooo....do you want that crow fried or baked?:rolleyes:

For the record, I'm a HUGE Levi fan and this whole thread is tongue in cheek. But the reason it's kind of funny is that there is some truth to it.

You know there is precious little worse in here than starting a bone-headed thread and then, when it all goes south the OP claims..."this whole thread was tongue in cheek." You should have stated that at the outset. Now you just sound like a backpedalling gutless troll, and yes I do know how long you've been a member.

Just be a man and eat your words....and as penance you are banned until next July:p:D.

Now THAT was tongue in cheek.

Yep.....and all 6 in August of 06 or July this year regarding the TdF or Lance doping...or some other bollocks.

Ya gotta love guys like this.:rolleyes:

Glad this is the only forum I frequent.

Cheers,

Brian

That would be because I am out on my bike, not sitting behind the computer talking about them.

I really hope you don't have any children.

Nope, but they won't be second to anyone when i get them.

Sooooo....do you want that crow fried or baked?:rolleyes:

Doesn't it all taste like chicken?

That would be because I am out on my bike, not sitting behind the computer talking about them.

Oh really.....it sure is funny how you miraculously seem to find time every July or August to spout your nonsensical BS. If you are going to be a troll at least be a good one and try to come up with a better response.

You can go back under your bridge now.

Oh really.....it sure is funny how you miraculously seem to find time every July or August to spout your nonsensical BS. If you are going to be a troll at least be a good one and try to come up with a better response.

You can go back under your bridge now.

When the TDF is on, I'm on. Anything else doesn't require my attention. You should ride more, then you will understand what it means to be first in something other than getting upset at someone's opinion.

When the TDF is on, I'm on. Anything else doesn't require my attention. You should ride more, then you will understand what it means to be first in something other than getting upset at someone's opinion.


Although I agree with your stance re: when you choose to participate your view that 2nd place equals first loser is so contracdictory to the essence of life and especially cycling. That leads me to believe you would be a questionable parent and don't understand cycling all this despite the fact I may be a troll also since I choose to spend intermittent time here

When the TDF is on, I'm on. Anything else doesn't require my attention. You should ride more, then you will understand what it means to be first in something other than getting upset at someone's opinion.

Let's see your palomares Mr. super cyclist racer dude.:rolleyes: