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Does LL stand for Levi Leipheimer or Lazy Loser?
I mean, is LL really holding back for the TTs and to attack in the Pyrenees?
Or is he, well, a Lazy Loser?
Vote before Saturday.
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*sigh* What is with all of the hate on Levi?
Even if he cracks during the TT, or in the Pyrenees, that doesn't IMO mean he is lazy. :rolleyes:
If that is your failed attempt at humor, then I apologize. :p
If that is your failed attempt at humor, then I apologize. :p
If that's the case, I hardly think you should be doing the apologizing. While things might not go the way Levi would like them to, I see no justification for either of the alliterative labels that HelmetHead seems to be suggesting.
Halfway through the tour he's a minute 20 out of second place.
TCS
Does LL stand for Levi Leipheimer or Lazy Loser?
I mean, is LL really holding back for the TTs and to attack in the Pyrenees?
Or is he, well, a Lazy Loser?
Vote before Saturday.
Tell us how you would do it HH, since obviously you are much more qualified to ride the TDF than Levi...at least in your own mind. Don't you have a bike lane debate or something in A&S to attend to? :rolleyes:
No hes not lazy, but he doesnt seem to have that fire about him that I would like to see. Hes not all that alluring as a personality or in his riding style but he is clearly an effective rider and a podium finish could be within reach.
nobody riding le Tour is lazy......
but Levi is not as good as many on this forum seem to think.
Please define how good. Levi is a pretty dang ole good rider. He is a top 10 TDF rider, and a stage race winner. Man I can only dream.
Richard
nobody riding le Tour is lazy......
but Levi is not as good as many on this forum seem to think.
Does he have good form? We'll find out in the mountains next week. However, he hasn't shown much to date. Whether this is to plan or not remains to be seen. It does seem that there are a group of GC guys that are very close. That list included Levi ...... for now.
... Brad
nobody riding le Tour is lazy......
but Levi is not as good as many on this forum seem to think.
yeah we all know that vinokourev is a much better rider and is heavily favored to win le tour which he "deserves" :eek:.
ed rader
Lazy Loser. Otherwise he'd go out on solo breaks from the start every day. :rolleyes:
Please define how good. Levi is a pretty dang ole good rider. He is a top 10 TDF rider, and a stage race winner. Man I can only dream.
Richard
But of the GC contenders this year, so far he's in the second tier. That doesn't mean he's not a good stage racer, just not a tour de france winner. Top 10 in years past doesn't equal podium, ask Moreau.
The question wasn't whether Levi would win the tour. The question was whether he was a lazy loser.
Richard
But of the GC contenders this year, so far he's in the second tier. That doesn't mean he's not a good stage racer, just not a tour de france winner. Top 10 in years past doesn't equal podium, ask Moreau.
Another point Levi is in 6th place right now, so your 1st tier must be pretty small.
Richard
But of the GC contenders this year, so far he's in the second tier. That doesn't mean he's not a good stage racer, just not a tour de france winner. Top 10 in years past doesn't equal podium, ask Moreau.
Another point Levi is in 6th place right now, so your 1st tier must be pretty small.
Richard
Its the guys who are in the fastest group on the climbs, and can make the attacks. Not the guys in the second fastest group barely holding on. So yeah, its pretty small.
nobody riding le Tour is lazy......
but Levi is not as good as many on this forum seem to think.
I agree with this. Who ever the American hope is often elevated to be better than they really are. Mostly out of hope and optimism brought on by Lance Armstrong and to a certain degree Landis. The last 8 tours have been won by an American. So Levi being the biggest american threat is then elevated to hope for that level.
I personally think a podium finish would be a HUGE victory. Top 5 a good tour and a top 10 a dissapointment.
Hes not lazy.
And I would bet that after the upcoming time trial that he moves up and not down but then so will Kloden big time (small top tier indeed). When all is said and done, you've got to love this Tour, half way thru, no clear winner, no one playing safe and methodically protecting a lead, one bad day and you're on your way out. Really enjoying this one.
All of the same things being said about Levi were also said about Landis last year. Go back and check the old forums. Levi is a good racer. He could win the TDF, but it is unlikely. This tour is so wide open though, anything can happen.
With no major crashes or meltdowns by the GC guys I suspect Levi will finish 4th or 5th.
Richard
Anyone who thinks Levi is showing weakness by his current performance (or lack thereof) is someone I'd like to sell some nice swampland to. Not saying he will win, but if his strategy is translated into actual performance in the TT and Pyrenees, rather than just wishful thinking, he has a good chance of getting on the podium.
The thing is, being an attacking fool doesn't win Tours. This year there are two 50k TTs and the bulk of the climbing in the third week. OK, Rasmussen had a big day, but Levi'll easily gain 3:50 in those two time trials and probably a lot more. Beyond that he's only 1:20 out of second place. Being conservative in the first two weeks is clearly the right move. And you might say that it'll continue to be the right move. If he can continue to do exactly what he's been doing he'll only have to compete with Evans and Kloden in the TTs. If he can only match them in the TTs and gain time on just one day in the mountains, he'll win the Tour.
By GGDub's logic, Levi is stuck with Evans, Kloden and Sastre in the second tier with I suppose Rasmussen, Valverde, Mayo and Contador in the first tier. I reckon Levi will take that. I figure the only one of those "first tier" guys the "second tier" guys are at all worried about is Valverde.
Huh, so attacking doesn't win tours? Better tell that to the last 9 winners.
How will he gain time, if he's always following wheels? Evans, Contador, and Kloden all finished ahead of him in the prologue and Valverde finished just behind him. If you're expecting Levi to put serious time into these guys in the TTs then you're expecting one of these guys to have a really bad day.
Huh, so attacking doesn't win tours? Better tell that to the last 9 winners.
How will he gain time, if he's always following wheels? Evans, Contador, and Kloden all finished ahead of him in the prologue and Valverde finished just behind him. If you're expecting Levi to put serious time into these guys in the TTs then you're expecting one of these guys to have a really bad day.
There is a difference between attacking and being an 'attacking fool'. What is the point of expending unnecessary energy early if you can wheelsuck and still remain within striking distance of the leaders? The time for attacking will come in the Pyrenees. This isn't the last 9 tours, this tour is the only one these guys are concerned about.
Levi has said repeatedly that he will attack in the Pyrenees. We will find out if he is just blowing smoke on Sunday.
Richard
How will he gain time, if he's always following wheels? Evans, Contador, and Kloden all finished ahead of him in the prologue and Valverde finished just behind him. If you're expecting Levi to put serious time into these guys in the TTs then you're expecting one of these guys to have a really bad day.
Like I said, the bulk of the Tour is still to come. If he can gain time one day in the mountains and follow the wheels the rest, he'll win the tour.
Ya think an 8k TT is an indicator of performance in a 55k TT? er............well, I'll remember that when reading your posts!
Yes, you are right, there is a difference. Look up last years two TT's then, if you want a better guide. Hint: You are going to have to look a little farther down the list to find Levi.
Two (or three?) years ago Lance soft pedaled the last couple km into an early mountain top finish to stay out of the yellow jersey. While the yellow jersey wearer spent an hour and a half getting his lion & kisses and giving interviews and urine, Lance was getting fluids, a massage and rest back at the team hotel.
The same guy that told Lance to do that, Johan Bruyneel, is guiding Levi's strategy this year. Hmmmm.
TCS
There is a difference between attacking and being an 'attacking fool'. What is the point of expending unnecessary energy early if you can wheelsuck and still remain within striking distance of the leaders? The time for attacking will come in the Pyrenees. This isn't the last 9 tours, this tour is the only one these guys are concerned about.
Totally, but who of the top contenders has been an attacking fool? Valverde? Evans? Contador? Those attacks have put them where they need to be.
Listen, I may come off like I'm hating on Levi, I ain't. I would love for him to win the tour, but from what I've seen this year and in past tours, it will be tough for him to even podium. Levi did well in the pyrenees last year, but still wasn't the protagonist and if he wants to move from 8th to 3rd, then he better start being one soon.
Levi was either sick, or not on form last year. He would have a good stage then a poor stage. In 2005 against better riders he did better.
Levi seems to be more suited for time trials around 25 to 30 kilometers.
He dropped out of racing for a little while after the Sea Otter due to poor form.
We shall find out Saturday.
Richard
Yes, you are right, there is a difference. Look up last years two TT's then, if you want a better guide. Hint: You are going to have to look a little farther down the list to find Levi.
He attacked several times on the stage Menchov won.
Except for last year he was either setting tempo for Lance, or being destroyed by tempo being set by Disco.
Richard
Totally, but who of the top contenders has been an attacking fool? Valverde? Evans? Contador? Those attacks have put them where they need to be.
Listen, I may come off like I'm hating on Levi, I ain't. I would love for him to win the tour, but from what I've seen this year and in past tours, it will be tough for him to even podium. Levi did well in the pyrenees last year, but still wasn't the protagonist and if he wants to move from 8th to 3rd, then he better start being one soon.
"Gee, thanks, Jan, for congratulating my lazy @ss on my 2005 Tour of Germany win."
http://www.velonews.com/images/int/8742.12306.f.jpg
"Oh, my bad..... I thought it was called the Dauphine Lazy...."
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/_photos/2006-06-11-levi.jpg
Your photos bring up another point. Levi's team almost acted as though he didn't exist. I never saw Levi getting team help last year or the year before in the tour.
Richard
"Gee, thanks, Jan, for congratulating my lazy @ss on my 2005 Tour of Germany win."
http://www.velonews.com/images/int/8742.12306.f.jpg
"Oh, my bad..... I thought it was called the Dauphine Lazy...."
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/_photos/2006-06-11-levi.jpg
That's because they couldn't decide who was their leader. They always seemed to name Levi leader but at the same time be hoping to switch to Georg Totschnig. Levi's had a lot of bad breaks that way - the one year Rabobank really put a good support team together he went down in the big crash where Hamilton broke his collarbone. They decided they didn't want to put all their eggs in one basket and didn't do that again. Imagine if he'd had a guy like Chicken to do the mountain pacing for him! But look at the team he's got this year - it's a murderers row in the mountains. I really think one day they're gonna spring Levi big time in the Pyrenees.
Totally, but who of the top contenders has been an attacking fool? Valverde? Evans? Contador? Those attacks have put them where they need to be.
You just sound like you expect him to attack every day. I think it's by design that he hasn't attacked yet. Probably been the plan since a week after Basso left.
I think we have successfully fed the troll.
Let's wait for the TT tomorrow to make our decision.
Let's wait for the TT tomorrow to make our decision.
I agree. If Contador finishes ahead of Levi, then I think its clear what Disco will have to do, if Levi finishes ahead of him, then its wide open in the pyrenees I think.
Levi has said repeatedly that he will attack in the Pyrenees. We will find out if he is just blowing smoke on Sunday.
Richard
Exactly. And by lazy I mean relative to, well, that other L guy who used to lead Discovery... He just seems to lack the fire, man.
Let's wait for the TT tomorrow to make our decision.
Day after tomorrow, eh?
Tomorrow is:
Stage 12 - Friday, July 20: Montpellier - Castres, 178.5km
Day after tomorrow is:
Stage 13 - Saturday, July 21: Albi - Albi, 54km ITT
LL = smart
I would suck as much wheel as I could if I were in his spot.
Vino = crazy
I would sink as many ships as I could if I were in his spot.
Levi is riding a very smart race. Y'all have been spoiled by Superman .. er, Lance .. defying all comers and beating them into the ground. Levi (nor anyone else) is that dominant. He has to ride smart and rely on his team. He is doing just that.
Remember, "90% of this game is half mental."
[Remember, "90% of this game is half mental."]
LOL, is that a Yogi-ism?
I think we have successfully fed the troll.plus juan.
Kloden is probably the strongest contender to win the GC in Paris. And, "LL" is within one minute of Kloden. Does anyone doubt "LL" will kick Rasmussen's behind in Saturday's time trial?
And, if "LL" beats Kloden in the time trial tomorrow, he will be in position to win the whole thing in Paris. Almost makes me want to get out of bed before noon...
yeah and maybe boonen will beat mayo over the moutains:rolleyes:
[Remember, "90% of this game is half mental."]
LOL, is that a Yogi-ism?
Yep. :D
Kloden should win the TT. Levi, if he's going to be a real contender, won't be far behind. Ras will lose 5ish mins. So will Mayo. Valve will lose less, but still lose. Evans, Levi, Kloden battle it out on the slopes of the Pyrenees for the GC... or it stays very close through the mtns, and Kloden wins yellow for sure in the last TT. Unless his ass hurts a whole lot. Too many ifs to pick this Tour. Which riders will crack spectacularly in the Pyrenees? Who might go down and get hurt? Will Rasmussen starts riding stages out of his team kit, thinking it will fool the testers?
Looking back at the 2005 ITT, the best placed rider out of those still remaining was Vinokourov, 1'16 behind Armstrong. If you rule him out you then have Evans at 2'06. Levi Leipheimer was 3'13 behind Lance whilst a then 22yo Contador finished 6'12 behind Armstrong and just 2'59 behind Levi. I would imagine that Contador has improved a fair bit since then so it'll be quite interesting to see how close they are at the end of the ITT
Australian TV interviewed former Olympic champion Scott McGrory last night. He'd spoken to one of the Disco mechanics and reckoned the mechanic said Bruyneel has Contador as leader, not Leipheimer, no matter what Bruyneel is mouthing in the meda.
Looking at the over all positions after this time trial, what two riders would drop off if Levi was to podium? Of course anyone can crack on any one day, but the other 4 ahead of him seem pretty solid.
I figured this thread would be revived after Leipheimer's poor TT today. :o
Australian TV interviewed former Olympic champion Scott McGrory last night. He'd spoken to one of the Disco mechanics and reckoned the mechanic said Bruyneel has Contador as leader, not Leipheimer, no matter what Bruyneel is mouthing in the meda. And since McGrory has his own reasons for wanting to get quoted in the media throughout the world, I will hold judgment of his statements. :p
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