Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Article: "An argument for returning to treating obesity with simple willpower"

Since some people don't like links, here's the article's text:



When I was growing up, the word "willpower" was used a lot. If only one was strong enough to resist sweets, according to logic of the time, one could stay thin.

Yet today, based on a series of scientific discoveries, the importance of willpower in promoting weight loss is becoming an obsolete notion. Is it worth saving?

The concept of willpower came less from scientific data than from Christian teachings about the dangers of temptation. Gluttony, after all, was one of the seven deadly sins, up there with pride, greed, extravagance, envy, wrath, and sloth.

The late 19th century was perhaps the heyday of the revolt against what John Burnham, a historian at Ohio State University, calls "bad habits." In the United States, groups like the Salvation Army and the Women's Christian Temperance Union urged sinners to stop drinking, gambling, and smoking.

Comparable sentiments characterized writings about obesity. In 1946, Wilson Smillie, a public health professor at Cornell University in New York State, wrote that the physician should appeal to the obese patient's "ability to manifest self-control." Weight-loss programs like Weight Watchers reflect this philosophy.

Similarly, many American physicians have also discouraged surgical procedures like stomach stapling or shortening of the intestines, not only because of their risks but also because they were somehow seen as quick fixes for lazy patients who choose not to stick to their diets.

But as critics have pointed out, while willpower can work, it usually does not.

A study published in The Journal of the American Medical Association in 2005 found that regardless of the diet attempted, patients lost an average of only 5 percent of their baseline weight after one year. And dropout rates exceeded 40 percent.

As a result, strategies for promoting weight loss have recently begun to shift from a focus on individual behaviors to a public health approach.

As the late Dr. Donald Gemson of Columbia University once put it, "the causes of the obesity epidemic are environmental, and the answers will be as well." Rather than simply urging people to eat better and exercise more, experts like Gemson have increasingly argued that society has to facilitate such changes by reducing the availability of high-calorie foods, advertisements of junk food to children, and reliance on automobiles, while increasing access to healthy foods and exercising.

The environmental theory of obesity is prompting governmental interventions, like New York City's ban on most trans fats in restaurant food.

Environmental strategies have successfully been used in other areas that formerly relied on moral suasion. For example, taxes on cigarettes have contributed greatly to lowered smoking rates.

In the United States, local legislatures also have enacted laws making restaurants liable if they permit drunk patrons to drive home.

So will people necessarily lose weight if society actively discourages fattening foods? Maybe not. Consider the genetic hypothesis, the latest reassessment of the obesity problem.

Research suggesting a strong hereditary predisposition to obesity goes back several decades, but several recent findings have put this theory into the forefront. In 1994, for example, Jeffrey Friedman, a molecular geneticist at Rockefeller University in New York City, discovered the appetite-regulating hormone leptin. Friedman believes that people's appetites are largely controlled by genetics, which causes them to have different "set points" at different times in their lives.

A study in The Journal of the American Medical Association in May suggested another way in which genetics might affect changes in weight. Researchers from Children's Hospital in Boston reported that differences in how young adults secrete the hormone insulin determine how well they respond to various dietary interventions.

So maybe it is time for health professionals to stop reflexively assuming that personal sacrifice will lead to weight loss. But this will not be easy.

For one thing, there certainly are success stories of people who have dropped dozens of pounds by drastically altering their lifestyles. Moreover, watching one's diet can have beneficial health effects beyond losing weight.

And I just cannot conceive of a session with an overweight patient that does not involve a discussion of being careful at holiday meals, controlling portion size, avoiding bedtime snacks, and trying to exercise three times a week. Somehow it still seems to me that part of a doctor's job is to push patients to try harder. Just call me old-fashioned.



What do you guys think of this?

I initially liked where this article was heading, saying that willpower is very important to weight loss (and gain, for that matter). Then the author 180's and does what every fat person who doesn't want to exercise does, he blamed the media. I understand that prolific advertising is VERY powerful, but that doesn't mean that you can't fight it. I've been vegetarian for over two years now, and I have yet to find myself in a zombie -like state walking into McDonald's and ordering a double cheeseburger for $1.

Then the next ilttle section went on to discuss genetics. This is where I have mixed feelings. It is true that some people have horrible genetics when it comes to this stuff and have a very difficult time keeping a healthy weight. If I remember correctly, our own Tom Stormcrowe falls into this "genetic problem" group. That being said, just because some people have a MUCH harder time controlling their weight because of genetics, it doesn't mean that everyone does. I've met a lot of obese people in my life, as I'm sure many of you have too. I am obese as well. It seems that an overwhelming majority of people I've discussed weight with blame it on genetics though. I find that very hard to believe. I find it especially hard to believe when lunch for you consists of almost $10 every day from your local fast food joint.

Allright, I think I'm done. If I've offended anyone, I really do apologize. I just get easily annoyed when people try to blame their weight on something even though that may not be the main cause. Many of us here are living proof that willpower is in general the strongest factor when it comes to weight management.

Good article

I'm not offended, but I am one of those people that have an endocrine disorder. Pituitary issue in my case. The article, unfortunately advocates a social engineering approach and rather than addressing the actual problem, either medically or behaviorally, they're aiming toward a "shotgun" approach of reducing food options societally. To me, this is a slippery slope, because in the long run, social engineering is used for this and other control purposes becomes a justification for other actions due to precedent.

Instead, address the behavior on an individual basis.


Environmental strategies have successfully been used in other areas that formerly relied on moral suasion. For example, taxes on cigarettes have contributed greatly to lowered smoking rates.

In the United States, local legislatures also have enacted laws making restaurants liable if they permit drunk patrons to drive home.

So will people necessarily lose weight if society actively discourages fattening foods? Maybe not. Consider the genetic hypothesis, the latest reassessment of the obesity problem.

Ahhhh Will Power.....
Just say no to food.
Just say no to drugs
Just say no to smoking

It is true in its essence. The bottom line is I put the food in my mouth.

But there is a great deal more to the picture and the level of will power now needed to avoid obesity is extremely high. Junk science, a weight loss industry, and an entire agro-economy has be set against you and your will power. Then you add to this what our nation now considers obese compared to what would have been considered obese in the 50's. Read 'The Omnivore's Dilemma for a better understanding of what king corn has done to our eating habits in America.

Yes, the bottom line is will power. No matter what the odds are against you it remains will power that gets it done. The person who has lost a leg running a marathon on a prosthetic takes will power to win. The unemployed need will power to find work. In the end though, stating that it takes will power is missing the issues at hand. The percentage of people that fill the ranks of the fit is down far more than ever before. I do not believe that the number of people with will power has diminished by that same amount.

Since some people don't like links, here's the article's text: (Snip)
What do you guys think of this?


Willpower is vastly overrated. Common sense is vastly underrated. I have no willpower. I may not have a lot of common sense - ask Neil F., he can tell you - but I try to work the little I have, and that saves me from my lack of willpower.

http://historian2wheels.blogspot.com/2007/06/lock-on-trigger.html

"Weight loss is largely a matter of behavior modification. And oftentimes these behaviors, including trigger foods, are very simple to moderate or eliminate. For instance, if you eat junk food while seated at your computer, don't keep it at your computer. Better yet, don't keep it in the house. Do you raid the vending machines at work? Don't carry cash with you, or if you do, carry large bills. I have yet to see a vending machine break a twenty. Do you have a weakness for peanut butter? Find ways to limit your 'automatic' consumption of it. To keep a gun from discharging, you put a lock on the trigger. And it helps to put a lock on trigger foods as well."

Not to over argue the point, but it takes will power to adjust or make behavior modifications. At some point there is a act...no a continuous series of acts of will. With that said, your point is valid.

It works for me, but I'm not sure it applies to everybody. I vary 40 pounds or so over about a two-year cycle, from 225-265 (I'm 6'4"), and my weight (surprise!) is directly related to what I eat and how much I exercise. I have absolute control over it when I choose to exert that control.
For years, I've just assumed it was my fault and I had lapses. But two of my neighbors happen to be physicians with strong interest in weight control, obesity and related health problems. They're more and more convinced that there's something going on, at least in some patients, beyond simple lack of will. I haven't talked with them enough recently to explain it accurately, but they've both told me at separate times that it's not as simple an issue as we used to think.
On the other hand, sitting and watching TV or dicking around with a computer six hours a day while eating potato chips would certainly contribute to the epidemic of porkiness you can see on every school playground you pass....

Genetics can set the stage, but if you believe that they determine the outcome, then you believe that you're powerless. And if you believe that that is so, then it is so.

In reality, however, genetics can influence, they can hinder, they can challenge, they can make a given thing easier or harder, and you can either cry about it or you can do something about it. Yes, some people are going to have a harder time than others accomplishing XYZ. That's a given. But what's going to be more satisfying to you personally: bellyaching about how hard it is to accomplish XYZ, or accomplishing it (or as much as you can) anyway? I used to train karate with a guy who had a congenital hip deformity, that made any kicking technique and a lot of stance work a very difficult challenge for him. I never once heard him make an excuse or complain that it was harder for him than for the person next to him. He wanted to improve himself, based on the body he had, and he understood that you never do that by complaining about your genetic lot in life.

Interesting article. It brings up a lot of important issues, though I'm not sure if the author really knew what the point was supposed to be.

My opinion: It's all true. Yes, the media, "car culture," fast foods, and cultural norms of overeating all make losing weight more difficult. But even if those factors weren't present, losing weight would still take will power. Changing habits is, after all, hard.

My only argument with the willpower issue is, perhaps, a purely internal one, and I agree with what The Historian said about willpower and common sense. I think a lot of diets that focus on willpower are starvation-type diets, not something that's sustainable for years, certainly not for a lifetime. That creates an association, at least in my mind, between the word "willpower" and being hungry and miserable. That's not something anyone can or should force themselves to do, long-term. But eating sensibly, and being a little hungry.. that is manageable (and also takes will... LOL).

"The concept of willpower came less from scientific data than from Christian teachings about the dangers of temptation"

I found that part a bit heavy handed and more than a little stupid. Prior to Christianity was everyone a big fatty? Why is it that there is a higher obesity rate in the south where there is also a higher rate of devout Christians?

I'm not offended, but I am one of those people that have an endocrine disorder. Pituitary issue in my case. The article, unfortunately advocates a social engineering approach and rather than addressing the actual problem, either medically or behaviorally, they're aiming toward a "shotgun" approach of reducing food options societally. To me, this is a slippery slope, because in the long run, social engineering is used for this and other control purposes becomes a justification for other actions due to precedent.

Instead, address the behavior on an individual basis.

For me health is primarily an ethical problem in the classical sense of the word, i.e. what is the good life and how do I go about living it?

Unfortunately, due to the influence of technology in the 20th century, we seem to think that health is primarily a technical problem rather than an ethical problem. In other words, my character is not the locus of my problems, but rather it is to be found in my genetics or in my environment.

All of this brings to mind Aristotle who, 2000+ years ago, did not fall back upon simple-minded conception of will, but rather explained that if your character did not possess the virtues of courage and temperance, you could not develop the rest of your character sufficiently enough to live the good life (bodily, intellectually and socially) in spite of your nature and/or environment. To possess these virtues requires, not willpower, but practice and habituation.

I agree with you Tom that a social engineering approach is a bad idea. Not only does it set horrible precedents, but, when it is successful, it reifies the notion that health and life is indeed a technical problem.

Well, I can go on for weeks....

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1585100358.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://www.marionboyars.co.uk/Web%20images/Book%20covers/medicine%20cover.jpg

In the end, everyone does what is most important to them. Many lie to themselves and others about what they feel is important, but we all do what we really want to with our time and our bodies. With the notable exception of issues such as organic disease which are of course out of our control.

"I'll do anything to loose weight, as long is it doesn't involve diet or exercise."

Unless the diet is pizza and beer.

I just had to chime in here. Once you are already obese or remain habitually overweight with extra body fat for a significant amount of time, there is a lot more going on than simple "willpower" can usually handle. Everyone does use willpower over the short-term to avoid over-indulging at something or another. But once a cycle has been established where your body has adapted itself to processing too many calories on a daily basis, and your hormones and metabolism are geared to handle that, it is very, very, very difficult to make drastic changes to your food consumption habits. Your body thinks that something is "wrong".

People have been starving to death for millions of years, and our biology is set up to prevent that when possible (gain lots of weight now, or you may starve to death next year). Your body does not LIKE to get smaller, no matter how big you are when you start losing weight. Obesity has only been a population-level problem for the last 100 years or so. Even if there was genetic pressure to select for people that don't become obese too easily, it takes a lot longer than...3-4 generations to see a significant decrease in the number of people with the various versions of the "don't starve to death" genes. People born with too much willpower concerning food were just more prone to starving to death, and they had fewer kids. Even the most obese people live more than long enough to have children. Do the math.

Your emotions also come into play here. Most people, even thin people, use food to some extent to calm their nerves and remain in emotional control, and as a reward and shared social experience (holiday feasts come to mind). Obese people often learn to use food more than other people do as a calming agent to help them work longer and harder, stay calm, maintain concentration, etc. Breaking this emotional dependence on food as a coping mechanism adds and entirely different dimension to the problem.

Okay. I'll get off of my soap-box. I DO agree with the concept that some obese and overweight people take no responsibility at all for their actions, but there is a difference between accountability and guilt. Being obese in no way makes you a terrible, horrible, stupid, etc. person. It just makes you a big person who's life could be better. My opinion.

I DO agree with the concept that some obese and overweight people take no responsibility at all for their actions, but there is a difference between accountability and guilt. Being obese in no way makes you a terrible, horrible, stupid, etc. person. It just makes you a big person who's life could be better. My opinion.

I agree.

All I am saying is that to illicit any positive change through conscious decision takes an act of will.

I just had to chime in here. Once you are already obese or remain habitually overweight with extra body fat for a significant amount of time, there is a lot more going on than simple "willpower" can usually handle. Everyone does use willpower over the short-term to avoid over-indulging at something or another. But once a cycle has been established where your body has adapted itself to processing too many calories on a daily basis, and your hormones and metabolism are geared to handle that, it is very, very, very difficult to make drastic changes to your food consumption habits. Your body thinks that something is "wrong".

People have been starving to death for millions of years, and our biology is set up to prevent that when possible (gain lots of weight now, or you may starve to death next year). Your body does not LIKE to get smaller, no matter how big you are when you start losing weight. Obesity has only been a population-level problem for the last 100 years or so. Even if there was genetic pressure to select for people that don't become obese too easily, it takes a lot longer than...3-4 generations to see a significant decrease in the number of people with the various versions of the "don't starve to death" genes. People born with too much willpower concerning food were just more prone to starving to death, and they had fewer kids. Even the most obese people live more than long enough to have children. Do the math.

Your emotions also come into play here. Most people, even thin people, use food to some extent to calm their nerves and remain in emotional control, and as a reward and shared social experience (holiday feasts come to mind). Obese people often learn to use food more than other people do as a calming agent to help them work longer and harder, stay calm, maintain concentration, etc. Breaking this emotional dependence on food as a coping mechanism adds and entirely different dimension to the problem.

Okay. I'll get off of my soap-box. I DO agree with the concept that some obese and overweight people take no responsibility at all for their actions, but there is a difference between accountability and guilt. Being obese in no way makes you a terrible, horrible, stupid, etc. person. It just makes you a big person who's life could be better. My opinion.


All true. But it does not change the inarguable fact that an obese person will stay obese until it becomes more important to them to not be obese than the sum of all the things that result in being obese. No judgement intended, clearly it's a complex and seldom easy journey to get to that point. And once you get there, it's no overnight thing to change from being an obese person, it's not just will, it's seeing clearly enough to know that time is involved and that perfection is not required, but continued commitment is, along with being patient enough to wait for results. The delayed gratification gene has to be active for it to occur!

the problem is that a lot of people are looking for a black and white answer. I think everything is a part of the equation. willpower is part of it, a necessary part, but not all of it. you can't look at someone who is fat and say they have no willpower and someone who is thin and say they do. they may eat exactly the same diet. and I don't believe it's a rare case of extremes, as in only some people have this problem, we all process food differently, and it's all over the scale.

of course if you're fat and you don't want to be then you're going to have to have willpower, and a lot of it, since many of us will, at least partly, be overcoming our genetics.

bb

All true. But it does not change the inarguable fact that an obese person will stay obese until it becomes more important to them to not be obese than the sum of all the things that result in being obese. No judgement intended, clearly it's a complex and seldom easy journey to get to that point. And once you get there, it's no overnight thing to change from being an obese person, it's not just will, it's seeing clearly enough to know that time is involved and that perfection is not required, but continued commitment is, along with being patient enough to wait for results. The delayed gratification gene has to be active for it to occur!

I think I'm going to print that out and put it on my refrigerator, along with Pinyon's last paragraph.

One thing that I never said, and hopefully wasn't taken the wrong was that I don't think thin people are better than fat people, or that fat people are "terrible, horrible, stupid, etc.". Personality-wise, I've found that bigger people tend to be much nicer and more honest than the really in shape ones. Now, that is no where near a general rule and there are tons of exceptions, but I basically want everyone to know I have nothing against big people. If I did, I'd have something against myself, and I usually think I'm pretty awesome.

The problem that I do have is with big people who complain that they are big and aren't doing anything about it. I completely understand the psychological reasons for being and staying overweight. Pinyon mentioned how people use food as a coping mechanism. From personal experience, I agree that giving up the food is a very hard thing to do from this aspect. I guess that is why in some ways it was easier for me to make a complete lifestyle change when it came to exercize; I became vegetarian more than two years ago, so it was almost like the seeds were sown way back then.

Many of you are also right that there is something different in today's society that overall makes for more obese people. This is largely due to the media (i.e. advertising) and also to what we put in our food. So you're right, once you become overweight, it is hard to shed those pounds because there aren't many healthy choices left.

I still, however, stand by my point that losing the weight is pretty much all willpower. Some of you have said that it also takes commitment, but that's still willpower in my book. To me, willpower is noticing something that you want to change and setting your mind so you accomplish your goal. But just because someone is thin doesn't mean they have willpower and vice versa. But, at least to me, if someone is big and wants to be thin but tells themselves that they can't, it's too hard, it involves too much work, etc. then I feel that there is a willpower issue. Humans are remarkable creatures and I have yet to find a problem that can't be overcome if you try hard enough.

Joe, most of it is the realization that you can do it. A large portion long term obese individuals have reached a bit of a "Oh well, I can't do it anyhow, so why try?" state of mind. What it really takes is a behavioral and perceptual paradigm shift. First, they have to learn to believe in themselves enough to make the attempt. Then they have to come to the point where they learn it's not a diet, but instead, a holistic change in lifestyle.

A good comparison would be the paradigm shift that occurred with you as you learned your capabilities on the bike were far greater than you initially thought, and the increasing level of ability progressing far faster than you thought it would.

Joe, most of it is the realization that you can do it. A large portion long term obese individuals have reached a bit of a "Oh well, I can't do it anyhow, so why try?" state of mind. What it really takes is a behavioral and perceptual paradigm shift. First, they have to learn to believe in themselves enough to make the attempt. Then they have to come to the point where they learn it's not a diet, but instead, a holistic change in lifestyle.

I completely agree with you here, especially the last line. A lot of people have trouble that what you need isn't a diet, it's a lifestyle change. But I still call this willpower. I guess I should not have such broad definitons, huh?


A good comparison would be the paradigm shift that occurred with you as you learned your capabilities on the bike were far greater than you initially thought, and the increasing level of ability progressing far faster than you thought it would.

That certainly was a huge part of it, but another part of equally significant size was me telling myself that I wasn't happy with what I was and I really needed to do anything I could in order to make my outside look like my inside thought it should.

I completely agree with you here, especially the last line. A lot of people have trouble that what you need isn't a diet, it's a lifestyle change. But I still call this willpower. I guess I should not have such broad definitons, huh?



That certainly was a huge part of it, but another part of equally significant size was me telling myself that I wasn't happy with what I was and I really needed to do anything I could in order to make my outside look like my inside thought it should.

Concerning Bolded Text: This was also a paradigm shift! A very positive one at that! You changed your perception of YOU and how you relate to the world for the better! You also changed your perception of you AS you for the better.:D

Ahhhh Will Power.....
Just say no to food.
Just say no to drugs
Just say no to smoking

It is true in its essence. The bottom line is I put the food in my mouth.

But there is a great deal more to the picture and the level of will power now needed to avoid obesity is extremely high. Junk science, a weight loss industry, and an entire agro-economy has be set against you and your will power. Then you add to this what our nation now considers obese compared to what would have been considered obese in the 50's. Read 'The Omnivore's Dilemma for a better understanding of what king corn has done to our eating habits in America.

Yes, the bottom line is will power. No matter what the odds are against you it remains will power that gets it done. The person who has lost a leg running a marathon on a prosthetic takes will power to win. The unemployed need will power to find work. In the end though, stating that it takes will power is missing the issues at hand. The percentage of people that fill the ranks of the fit is down far more than ever before. I do not believe that the number of people with will power has diminished by that same amount.

The real issue is that it's easier to eliminate then it is to cut back, which is why, typically it's easier to quit smoking or drinking alcohol then it is to lose weight. Two inventions have really become the bane of the 20th century, the automobile and the television.

The television encourages one to sit on their growing behind, and since it's only half entertaining and food advertisements are the most prevalent, it encourages one to eat in front of the TV. Forget about the social psychology aspect of whole families that spend all of their waking off hours watching the box and haven't had a conversation in years.

Then there is the automobile (AKA in biker parlance as "the cage"), the automobile also encourages inactivity, and sitting on ones behind, and the pandemic of drive up windows in "fast" food restaurants, encourages one to eat in the car, while being largely inactive. Note here, the isolation of each person in their own glass encrusted cage, has exactly the same social psychology aspect, of being in your own little world, with no interaction with others.

Both encourage over eating, and sedentary living, so throw out the TV, and trade the car for a bicycle, and you will probably find yourself eating less, eating better and exercising more.

Another concept is, food=fuel replacing the concept of food=fun. Too many people eat for comfort, rather then eat for the energy the food supplies, and the quality of that energy. Lots of fresh, locally grown fruits and vegetables are your best energy source. This time of year, around here, the local crops of raspberries and blueberries, plant ripened are in, and frankly I like both, The imported winter varieties that have been trucked from California, pass, they have little taste, no flavour and are way too expensive. What bugs me, is that some larger chain stores, buy from the same suppliers all year around, and so import their fruit, even while local crops are in abundance.:mad::mad::mad:

The issue is, that if you make exercise fun, and biking is fun, then you start to look at your diet differently, how can I eat to make it easier to, and improve the quality of my riding? Eating a double cheeseburger with all the trimmings, fries and an artificial chocolate shake, mid ride, and that meal will spend the rest of your ride, making life miserable, it will sit like a lump of lead, trying to use all of your blood supply to digest that mess. Blood you want for the leg muscles to keep riding, to summarize, lactic acid buildup!

Throw out the TV? But how am I supposed to watch the Tour?!

Many of you are also right that there is something different in today's society that overall makes for more obese people. This is largely due to the media (i.e. advertising) and also to what we put in our food. So you're right, once you become overweight, it is hard to shed those pounds because there aren't many healthy choices left.

I'm gonna have to call BS on this. The media? How about biology? How about the fact that our bodies evolved to crave calorie-rich foods and to pack on the pounds, during tens of thousands of years when the average person's main problem was food scarcity? How about the fact that these tens of thousands of years were followed (in the wealthy industrialized countries) by a radical change over the course of just a few generations, where the average person does not do hard physical labor and food, particularly calorically dense food, is plentiful? How many of you had grandparents who did hard physical labor all day and could rarely afford butter or ice cream or lots of meat? We've got their bodies and we aren't living their lives -- it's as simple as that. The media has nothing to do with it.

As for there not being many healthy choices left...well, yeah, if you must eat out at restaurants every night, can't be troubled to carry around healthy snacks or brown-bag a healthy lunch, and can't cook anything from scratch, you are indeed not going to have many healthy choices. For anyone else, there are plenty of healthy choices.

Unfortunately, due to the influence of technology in the 20th century, we seem to think that health is primarily a technical problem rather than an ethical problem.

Very insightful! I never thought of it in that way, but it does make some sense.

... Brad

Many of you are also right that there is something different in today's society that overall makes for more obese people. This is largely due to the media (i.e. advertising) ...

I agree with 'little brown bat' that the comment blaming the media is BS. You might as well blame Charles Dickens for the "obesity epidemic" because of all the gluttony in his novels - "I read Oliver Twist, and I was so influenced by it I had to eat that entire plum pudding. 'Please sir, I want some more!'"

Apparently I wasn't clear. I don't mean that if someone sees a McDonald's commercial, then they always go out and get a Big Mac. What I meant was that we are bombarded by advertisements since we were children and when some people are hungry, the first thing they think is fast food, because you don't see, for example, homemade pasta with zucchini, chick peas and galic on TV.

You also misunderstood my "healthy choices" comment. I was trying to think like someone who was overweight and making excuses as to why they are still that way. When it comes to my diet, I'm vegetarian and try my very hardest to eat locally grown, organic food. I definitely know there are healthy choices available and many healthy meals are very easy to make. Mr. I-Drive-Everywhere-I-Go might not know how easy it is to eat healthy though. And you know what, not everyone is comfortable cooking, some would rather have others make their food for them. I also know some people that when you mention healthy diet, they think all you eat is salad. Not everyone has the same education when it comes to food.

Apparently I wasn't clear. I don't mean that if someone sees a McDonald's commercial, then they always go out and get a Big Mac. What I meant was that we are bombarded by advertisements since we were children and when some people are hungry, the first thing they think is fast food, because you don't see, for example, homemade pasta with zucchini, chick peas and galic on TV.

You also misunderstood my "healthy choices" comment. I was trying to think like someone who was overweight and making excuses as to why they are still that way. When it comes to my diet, I'm vegetarian and try my very hardest to eat locally grown, organic food. I definitely know there are healthy choices available and many healthy meals are very easy to make. Mr. I-Drive-Everywhere-I-Go might not know how easy it is to eat healthy though. And you know what, not everyone is comfortable cooking, some would rather have others make their food for them. I also know some people that when you mention healthy diet, they think all you eat is salad. Not everyone has the same education when it comes to food.

I think you underestimate the average fat person's knowledge of food choices. I certainly knew what I was eating was killing me. It didn't stop me.

My obesity was entirely a problem of my own creation. Once I realized that, and that I alone had the power to change myself, I won the battle of the bulge. Major combat ended. The past 17 months have been clean-up operations.

Had I made the sort of excuses for myself you are offering in this post, I would be dead. Or in a living death, which might be worse.

I think you underestimate the average fat person's knowledge of food choices. I certainly knew what I was eating was killing me. It didn't stop me.

My obesity was entirely a problem of my own creation. Once I realized that, and that I alone had the power to change myself, I won the battle of the bulge. Major combat ended. The past 17 months have been clean-up operations.

Had I made the sort of excuses for myself you are offering in this post, I would be dead. Or in a living death, which might be worse.

This sort of thing is what makes you my hero.

This sort of thing is what makes you my hero.

Chiding Joe Metal? Is heroism so easy? :-)

No, seeing the truth and telling it, unvarnished.

It's ironic, my fiancee and I were discussing something very similar today... as we sat in Burger King! :D

You see, she brought up how a major point is that McDonald's/BK uses the "Playlands" to lure in kids - and they are correct. That's what drew us there today, it was 90 degrees outside and the kids were having a serious case of cabin fever. So needing lunch, we opted to go to BK and let them play in the massive "playland".

Now, she brought up another heck of a good point. The kids are going to BK, having a couple nuggets and fries - then they are exercising for an hour (quite literally). While that's teaching them that BK/McD's is a place to eat, it's also maybe drilling in that they should exercise to burn off that energy. The logic may be flawed a bit, but you get the gist.

Finally, it really is up to the consumer. You can get a decent meal anywhere - I enjoyed a "Tenderbroil" chicken salad, which actually was quite tasty. You are damn right I was tempted to slug down a whopper and choke, but in the end I was glad I had the salad. I'm learning this, as with children many times you must go where, frankly, they will actually eat. VI is a favorite for them, and the one closest to our house has been doing a stellar job with their Cobb Salad. Absolutely fantastic, it is, and allows me to resist my old VI favorite(s) :). IHOP? They have a great chicken caesar salad. Both are more filling, and more satisfying than the rest of the menu.

The children are only starting to ask about the salads, I'm guessing it's a matter of time before they try one. It's all about choices, and how they are presented.

Chiding Joe Metal? Is heroism so easy? :-)

Well, all I have to do is just ride a bike apparently. :p

[QUOTE=v1k1ng1001;4894456]
I agree with you Tom that a social engineering approach is a bad idea. Not only does it set horrible precedents, but, when it is successful, it reifies the notion that health and life is indeed a technical problem.
QUOTE]

Well I have to respectfully disagree. What do you call the billions spent in advertising every year by the food industry? I'd call that social engineering. Obesity in the US has become a societal problem. Children showing up at the age of 10 or 12 with type II diabetes is not simply a manifestation of missing willpower.

I think the article was dead on. To truly combat obesity in America we need to consider the environment that has been created around us. I say created because much of what and how we eat is clearly not natural. We have bodies meant to do hard physical labor from sunup to sundown and now we find our day consists of 8 hours of sitting at a desk followed by 2 hours of sitting in a car followed by 6 hours of TV.

now we find our day consists of 8 hours of sitting at a desk followed by 2 hours of sitting in a car followed by 6 hours of TV.


That might be your day, but it is not mine. Mine goes more like this:

1 hour of cleaning kennels and exercising dogs.
8 hours at work, 30% desk, 30% pickup, 30% directing jobs
1 to 2 hours cleaning kennels and exercising dogs
1 to 3 hours on the bike.
Collapse
Repeat

bdinger (http://bikeforums.net/member.php?u=62989) - exellent points!

We can't blame anything or anyone for being fat! (unless you have a specific illness) but the media has a huge role in american lives.. thats
unarguable.. commericals work! advertisments work! period.. many of folks make top dollars to study trends and demographics..

The problem is everyones pointing the finger! of why thier fat or over weight! and it comes down to you ate more then you burned!
and genetics play a role but ultamitly we are all human and the body works the same.. less colories more burning! = weightloss..

and yes it is Will power! regardless if Wendys told you to eat that triple cheese burger! 3 times a day! we all know better!

We need stop the pity party.. and get off the couch... in general as most americans! i was watching Discovery health and some of the excuses
these obese people were making were purly delusional! man/woman kinds enormous ability for self pity!

oh man! i used to tear into a triple cheese like No ones business!! whoo! lol

Throw out the TV? But how am I supposed to watch the Tour?!

I don't know about anyone else, but frankly I find cycling is like swimming, golf, bowling, more fun to do, then to watch someone else do.

I don't know about anyone else, but frankly I find cycling is like swimming, golf, bowling, more fun to do, then to watch someone else do.

I like watching the Tour and just imagining myself as those guys. Some kids watched Michael Jordan and went out and practiced every day to become great basketball players; I watch Vinokourov this year and go out and practice every day to become a cyclist who never gives up. :)

Ahhhh Will Power.....
Just say no to food.
Just say no to drugs
Just say no to smoking

It is true in its essence. The bottom line is I put the food in my mouth.



This is the bottom line with the emphasis on I. At one point I weighed 275 lbs and while there may be some contributing factors as mentioned in other posts eating away at my willpower, the bottom line is nobody held me down and force fed me anything. I am the only one responsible for my weight and ultimately only my lack of willpower was to blame.

On a positive note I've lost 45 lbs in one year and while I have been stuck at 230 for the last year or so I haven't put back on any of the weight I lost. At this point I would think some additional willpower is needed to pass this plateu and reach my weight goal of 190-200 lbs. Will I ever be 170 again as I was in my twenties, probably not but that for the moment isn't a realistic goal.

In addition I haven't had a cigarette in over 10 years (Camels, minimum of 2 packs/day habit).

Just my two cents on willpower and who's to blame.

ryder47- Great job! and thank you!!

I like watching the Tour and just imagining myself as those guys. Some kids watched Michael Jordan and went out and practiced every day to become great basketball players; I watch Vinokourov this year and go out and practice every day to become a cyclist who never gives up. :)

I've never been able to do the visualization exercises other folks practice. I can't see myself as anyone other than me. Fortunately, I am already a cyclist who never gives up.

I lost 160 lbs with willpower alone. With that said, had I failed in that attempt, I would not have hesitated to go the surgery route. At 380 lbs I was living about 1/2 of my potential. I wasted a lot of potential. My advice would be to do WHATEVER it takes and do it NOW! Life is way too short to be squandered.

I lost 160 lbs with willpower alone. With that said, had I failed in that attempt, I would not have hesitated to go the surgery route. At 380 lbs I was living about 1/2 of my potential. I wasted a lot of potential. My advice would be to do WHATEVER it takes and do it NOW! Life is way too short to be squandered.

I admire you. Starting with the same weight as you, I lost 142 pounds with little or no willpower. I made up for it by using common sense.

I agree that it is a lot of willpower but I suspect there is something else happening. In the USA I have to fight very hard to lose weight - it is a constant battle. But here in Costa Rica, weight drops off me without even working hard at it. Perhaps it is because it is so easy to exercise here or perhaps because our food isn't pumped full of hormones - not sure. I do know that it is a common comment from visitors that they have been eating like pigs for the whole vacation and still losing weight.

Just got back from a visit to the USA (business) and we were there for 10 days. I gained 5 lbs! :eek: It was expected. There are so many good things to eat and I wasn't going to deny myself any of it. :D Perhaps this is the issue as well. We have great things to eat here, tropical fruits, etcs. but there isn't the HUGE selection of processed foods in the USA. I could eat a year up there and never eat the same thing twice I think. Incredible.

I used to find in the fall I would start gaining weight like a bear getting ready for hibernation - no such urge down here. It might have been all in my mind but perhaps not.

One thing that I have found works the best is DAILY getting on the scale. Five pounds is relatively easy to get rid of, 40 lbs is more work. Constantly reminding myself of my current weight is the key for me - it helps me make the right decisions.

I have to say that with the exception of people who have a real medical issue, the "want to" is the most important factor. For me, my weight loss journey started when my doctor put a scare into me. Last June ('06) at my annual physical I weighed in at 405 lbs, my blood sugars were hitting dangerous levels, my blood pressure was very high even wiht two medications and sleep apnea was a major issue. I'm 6'4", btw. The doc suggested bariatric surgery. "What ?!? I'm not THAT bad, am I?" Yep.
That woke me up. I started keeping track of how much I ate and paying attention to what I was eating. Yikes! On july 27th, '06, I made a decision. I'm by no means Mr. Willpower, but I realized that I was making excuses for eating the way I did and not getting off the couch. Now, one year later, I actually get greater satisfaction from eating than before and have discovered that biking and other excersise is more fun than some brainless sitcom. The result is that I'm at 239 lbs, blood sugars are normal, blood pressures normal (off ALL meds) and sleep apnea is a thing of the past. On top of that I get cranky (well, crankier than normal) if I can't get on my bike or at least the elliptical every day.
I guess my point is that, for me, there was a "spark" that triggered what little will power I have to get me started on my journey. No diet, no exortations from my wife, parents, siblings or children, no talks with the doc before this one worked. Perhaps a just reached a tipping point but I had to make a decsion to do what needed to be done to make a long term change in my lifestyle. I know now that I have a choice. It's up to me to continue this lifestyle and I can't imagine going back.