Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Cramps, oh man the cramps

It seems that every time I go on a ride over 20 miles where I push myself, about an hour or two after arriving home I get some of the worst leg cramps imaginable. It's mainly in my quads, and man, I've been through some pain in my life - but these are about as bad as anything. My question lies in what am I doing wrong?

Last night I was a little dehydrated toward the end of the ride, but I quickly gulped down a ton of fluid (64oz of Gatorade then 64oz of water) in the hour after arriving home. But, right as I was getting out of my easy chair to go to bed, the legs "lit up". And oh man did they ever light up.

So.. what am I doing wrong? Or am I just doomed to cramping up after a long hard ride?

I drink before the ride. When I plan on an organized ride where I will be pushing myself, I drink G-ade the night before. Plenty of water too. I once read that before a ride, you know that you are well hydrated if you have to get out of bed twice at night to go pee-pee.

Maybe you don't need to be so extreme since they are your daily training rides, but maybe drink the night before. Yesterday it was hot. KNowing that I was going out ot do some climbing, I mixed a couple of big galsses of G-ade a couple hours before I went out. At 3pm, it ws hot but I climbed with no problems and no fellings of fatigue.

One other thing to note. If your seat height is wrong, it can cause problems. They say if you have problems with the quads, the seat is too low (like doing too many squats). If it's hamstring problems, the seat is too high (over extending)! Something to think about!:D

I too used to get really bad leg muscle cramps after riding 20+ miles. My cure was to stretch before my ride and then do a cool down period with a short walk after the ride. I used to consume most of my liquid after my ride, but I started drinking more consistently during the ride and that really seemed to help. Here is a really good link to an article by an exercise physiologist who specializes in skeletal muscle:

http://www.roadbikerider.com/cramps.htm

I hope this helps.

A few things I've read that can cause cramping:
1) not stretching after exercise
2) dehydration/electrolyte imbalance
3) low blood sugar/depleted glycogen stores in muscles
4) Dietary potassium/calcium deficiencies

From my experience, cramps usually come from two sources:

1) Dehydration (its hard to realize you are dehydrated sometimes...force drinking even if you don't feel thirsty).

2) Leg bend - Your saddle height should be that your legs at full stroke (downturn on pedal) are still "slightly" bent. Not straight and not "very" bent still. Just a slight bend past straight.


Those are the two culprits that have bitten me.

I'm new here and I don't know you personally but if memory serves me, you have some monster quads and run them like a freight train. You've mentioned hydration, are you keeping hydrated or trying to catch up afterward. Is it possible that you are getting dehydrated and your not catching up fast enough afterward? Also what about nutrition Are you getting enough potassium to keep from cramping and proteins to rebuild the muscle? Sounds to me like a build up of lactic acid that might be causing your cramps. Unfortunately I don't have your answer.

Try some bananas, apricots or avocados the night before. Packed with potassium.

It seems that every time I go on a ride over 20 miles where I push myself, about an hour or two after arriving home I get some of the worst leg cramps imaginable. It's mainly in my quads, and man, I've been through some pain in my life - but these are about as bad as anything. My question lies in what am I doing wrong?

Last night I was a little dehydrated toward the end of the ride, but I quickly gulped down a ton of fluid (64oz of Gatorade then 64oz of water) in the hour after arriving home. But, right as I was getting out of my easy chair to go to bed, the legs "lit up". And oh man did they ever light up.

So.. what am I doing wrong? Or am I just doomed to cramping up after a long hard ride?

bdinger -- I'm one of the guys you rode with last night! (the one who wanted to stop for a beer, riding the Surly Cross-Check :D). Just wanted to say I admire you for getting out there and it was nice riding with you. I hope your experience was a good one, other than the cramps. Don't hesitate to join that Thursday night group again. Unfortunately, there wasn't much of a "group" as everyone split up.

About your leg cramps -- it might be a hydration thing -- drink LOTS of water BEFORE you begin the ride, then drink LOTS of water during as well. Did you have two water bottles with you? Also, stretching afterward might help.

See you out on the trails!

Try some bananas, apricots or avocados the night before. Packed with potassium.

http://djforum.free.fr/smileysmileysmiley/v2/surprises/surprises.smileysmiley.com.54.gif

sounds like you need to drink and watch your electrolytes

also, if you're new to the sport, it takes a while for your legs to get used to cycling, longer than you might think

Thanks for all the advice! I think the problem yesterday most likely was hydration. I kept hydrated during the day - but all day I was "populating" a new server cabinet at work - in our warehouse.. with no AC :). Right after work I took a nap, and didn't drink much. I had two bottles of water during. I'm guessing that hydration is the culprit, and I need to be more careful.

Also I'm going to try the potassium route. Someone mentioned that to me before, but I shrugged it off. that and hydration are the only things I can think of.

Finally, the seat height I think FINALLY is right! I had the knee issues, then the hamstring issues with this bike. Finally I'm to the point where I have neither - right on the edge of the hamstring - so I'm hoping that isn't it. But I may try raising it another hair this weekend.

Thanks for all the input so far! I'm really wondering if it's a combo of protein/potassium and hydration.

It seems that every time I go on a ride over 20 miles where I push myself, about an hour or two after arriving home I get some of the worst leg cramps imaginable. It's mainly in my quads, and man, I've been through some pain in my life - but these are about as bad as anything. My question lies in what am I doing wrong?

Last night I was a little dehydrated toward the end of the ride, but I quickly gulped down a ton of fluid (64oz of Gatorade then 64oz of water) in the hour after arriving home. But, right as I was getting out of my easy chair to go to bed, the legs "lit up". And oh man did they ever light up.

So.. what am I doing wrong? Or am I just doomed to cramping up after a long hard ride?

you should stretch after a ride...
if that does'nt help, try eating a "tums" antacid... I have heard that the minerals will help with cramps...

bdinger -- I'm one of the guys you rode with last night! (the one who wanted to stop for a beer, riding the Surly Cross-Check :D). Just wanted to say I admire you for getting out there and it was nice riding with you. I hope your experience was a good one, other than the cramps. Don't hesitate to join that Thursday night group again. Unfortunately, there wasn't much of a "group" as everyone split up.

About your leg cramps -- it might be a hydration thing -- drink LOTS of water BEFORE you begin the ride, then drink LOTS of water during as well. Did you have two water bottles with you? Also, stretching afterward might help.

See you out on the trails!

Sweet, nice to see you here! Man that beer sounded good, and I was regretting passing it up by the time I got home. :D

Overall I *really* enjoyed it, and my other riding partner (Oliver, on the Bianchi) also echoed that. We're going to be out again, probably not next Thursday as I have prior commitments, but likely the week after that. I had a *lot* of fun, and was happy that I kept up - aside from the long hills, which are definitely NOT my strong suit :).

I did actually have two bottles with me, but by the time I met up with you and the other rider at 77 and Saltillo, they were basically empty. So I'm pretty sure I was dehydrated, and need to plan my water consumption on longer rides a little better. Either that, or try to find 32oz bottles!

And yeah, hope to see you out on the trails again. That really was a good time.

I also get severe, excruciating leg cramps but they sneak up on me in the middle of the night. I can feel the muscle knotting up in my hamstrings. Very painful. Here is what works for me: MUSTARD! A teaspoon brings relief within 90 seconds and the cramp doesn't return. Not very tasty but effective. I have also read somewhere that pickle juice is effective at relieving leg cramps. Give it a try.

I also get severe, excruciating leg cramps but they sneak up on me in the middle of the night. I can feel the muscle knotting up in my hamstrings. Very painful. Here is what works for me: MUSTARD! A teaspoon brings relief within 90 seconds and the cramp doesn't return. Not very tasty but effective. I have also read somewhere that pickle juice is effective at relieving leg cramps. Give it a try.

Picke juice, hmmm. I eat a lot of pickles which concerns me because of all the sodium in them. But I never have cramps so maybe the pickles aren't so bad. Plus I eat a lot of banana so I'm double protected.:D

Don't overlook the possibility that you may be calcium or magnesium deficient. Either can also result in cramping.

I used to be bothered by leg cramps, mostly hamstrings and quads, when I got dehydrated. It would often hit me at night or just before going to bed. Here's what I do now.

1, I switched to Morton Lite salt. I don't use much salt in my food but the Lite has a lot of potassium chloride in it.
2, Eat a banana 1 hour before bed.
3, For rides in hot weather, I carry one bottle of half and half sports drink and water with 1/4 teaspoon of Lite salt mixed in. I also drink additional plain water as the situation calls for it. I drink another bottle of the sport drink/water/Lite salt mixture immediately after the ride.

No cramps if I follow this routine. If you are taking a diuretic (water pill), it may cause a potassium deficiency. Ask your Doctor about it.

I've heard that drinking more milk (skim, for us fatties) can help out with cramping....just my 2 cents

Besides the cramps, do you get that bloated feeling too? :eek: :D

Sweet, nice to see you here! Man that beer sounded good, and I was regretting passing it up by the time I got home. :D

Overall I *really* enjoyed it, and my other riding partner (Oliver, on the Bianchi) also echoed that. We're going to be out again, probably not next Thursday as I have prior commitments, but likely the week after that. I had a *lot* of fun, and was happy that I kept up - aside from the long hills, which are definitely NOT my strong suit :).

I did actually have two bottles with me, but by the time I met up with you and the other rider at 77 and Saltillo, they were basically empty. So I'm pretty sure I was dehydrated, and need to plan my water consumption on longer rides a little better. Either that, or try to find 32oz bottles!

And yeah, hope to see you out on the trails again. That really was a good time.

Trust me, the beer was cold and delicious -- oh, and while we were sitting there downing a pitcher, a couple of bike chicks joined us --- great time had by all! Needless to say, we pedaled home on the trail in the dark.

This is getting off-topic, but checked out your blog. I congratulate you on your efforts -- what you are doing (and have done) is fantastic. Keep up the great work. Sounds like you've come a long way, and it will only get better. You're putting in the work, and more results surely will come. We'll ride again, for sure. :beer:

Besides the cramps, do you get that bloated feeling too? :eek: :D

What a butthole!!!:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Besides the cramps, do you get that bloated feeling too? :eek: :D

Hahah I'm surprised it took this long for someone to "say" that! :D

Hahah I'm surprised it took this long for someone to "say" that! :D

Sorry for the delay, I was over in the roadie forums taking abuse for being 'overly fat'. ;)

Besides the cramps, do you get that bloated feeling too? :eek: :D

:eek: And you were my favorite, too... you've got to read the roadie forum last, so that it doesn't spread. Kind of like millfoil.

I was getting cramps a few weeks ago when started back riding regularlyh again, but after getting some really bad cramps, i now down G'aid and water before a ride and so far no cramps! and i also tried the pickle juice and i think that did actully work 1 time, but need to buy some more pickles. Read where a coach gives it to his players and also read that rolaids has calcium and magnesium which may be a culprit, so i carry that around, but havn't used it yet cos i havn't had the cramps in awhile, but definitely going to prepare some....ike!...mustard water and put it on the night stand just in case, if anything the taste may take my mind off the cramps for awhile, but definitely going to make sure i've got it within easy reach cos those when nightmare cramps hit!, you can barely move an inch to reach anything!

Good riding!
BobK

Trust me, the beer was cold and delicious -- oh, and while we were sitting there downing a pitcher, a couple of bike chicks joined us --- great time had by all! Needless to say, we pedaled home on the trail in the dark.

This is getting off-topic, but checked out your blog. I congratulate you on your efforts -- what you are doing (and have done) is fantastic. Keep up the great work. Sounds like you've come a long way, and it will only get better. You're putting in the work, and more results surely will come. We'll ride again, for sure. :beer:

I missed beer AND bike chicas? Oh man, that's one heck of a lesson. That's worth pedaling home in the dark, I'd have to say :D.

And thank you, it's been quite the trip, but it's a lot of fun. Definitely a hell of a lot better than sitting around doing nothing with my life ;).

Darn right, I'm going to try to make Monday depending on work, but if not I'm definitely planning on Thursday August 2nd. The group was a lot of fun, and I was glad I could keep up :).

Besides the cramps, do you get that bloated feeling too? :eek: :D

Well, I get that, "Not so fresh" feeling.

Also, don't slug down the liquids. Slamming down 32 oz twice a day isn't the same as drinking 8, 8oz glasses throughout the day. Keep the hydration slow and steady. This is especially true during the rides. Take a couple of good swigs every 10 minutes rather than half a bottle every 30 minutes or bottle every hour.

somebody said something about stretching, and I have to agree wholeheartedly, stretching solved a great volume of my leg cramp problems.

Just for kicks, try doing a ride running one gear easier than you normally would....

As an aside, I've been trying a new routine. I have a hard time starting out on rides. My legs feel heavy, and the first 2 miles are harder then the next 10 combined. I've been stopping at about 6 miles, after my muscles are warmed up, and stretching before the rest of the ride. It seems to a good time to stretch, because the muscles that need it are already feeling a bit tight. Lets me figure out if I'm holding my shoulders tense, and stuff like that too. Kind of an early ride body check.

Just for kicks, try doing a ride running one gear easier than you normally would....

As an aside, I've been trying a new routine. I have a hard time starting out on rides. My legs feel heavy, and the first 2 miles are harder then the next 10 combined. I've been stopping at about 6 miles, after my muscles are warmed up, and stretching before the rest of the ride. It seems to a good time to stretch, because the muscles that need it are already feeling a bit tight. Lets me figure out if I'm holding my shoulders tense, and stuff like that too. Kind of an early ride body check.

Sounds like you're developing very good riding habits!:D

Sorry for the delay, I was over in the roadie forums taking abuse for being 'overly fat'. ;)


Does that mean one can be not overly fat? Is that "just right" fat? :D

Sorry for the delay, I was over in the roadie forums taking abuse for being 'overly fat'. ;)

OK, I just read that thread, and you're still my favorite... you are always a refreshing voice of reason!

Yeah, i used to get those monster quad cramps.. feel like their never gonna stop.. we're you actually think this could be the end! lol

50/50 water,gatorade and a banana or 2 afterwards work fine for me.

Try some bananas, apricots or avocados the night before. Packed with potassium.

+1

I work in a nuke plant. Steam pipes everywhere. In the summer I have actually stepped outside to cool off in the 100+ weather. During an "Outage" we are working hard and fast in a hot environment to get back to power as fast as possible. Lots of heat related injuries and cramps. Taking a potassium vitamin will usually make the cramps go away the fastest. I would suggest taking them all through the summer. I also found glucosamine is a great pill as well for joint pain.:D

Seems potassium is the way to go! I'll attempt that, as I'm going to be "dialing it up" next week a bit. Bananas unfortunately are hard to keep around the house, so I think I'll go the pill route.

Thanks for the tip!

got some pretty severe cramps for the first time i quite awhile, could be because i'm starting to use the upswiing on my clip pedals more now, more hills lately, but tried the mustard + water combo and it may have helped! cramps went away for the rest of the night. Checked the incrediants on the mustard bottle and it's only a low percentage of salt so maybe there's something in the mustard incrediant? didn't see any reference to potassium on the bottle but maybe that's a given? anyway adding mustard water to my night stand arsenal!

Good riding!
BobK

Tonic water after the ride.

tonic water? will give that a try too, thanks!

Good riding!
BobK

I used to have the same problem with cramps after a long ride but made some pretty easy changes. Switched to a fluid replacement that had a lactic acid buffer, HYDRATE, HYDRATE & HYDRATE. Very few of us adequately hydrate in general, let alone when exerting on pounding the pedals.
Your pee is the best indication on hydration. If it is clear, you are hydrated close to enough. If you only drink when thirsty, you are already behind in the game.

Late to this but don't just concentrate on the potassium. I would also watch the calcium and magnesium both of these can cause muscle cramping as well. When dieting it is really easy to cut yourself short on the calcium side.

Shog

saw references to HEED on another forum, going to look into that too!

Good riding!
BobK

I've been working on solving cramping issues for a while now, and I think I may have found the magic combo (for me). A little background: I'm training for a century next month. I attempted one in March of this year, and I had to jump on the SAG wagon at mile 82, due to disabling leg cramps. I did a lot of research, and started taking Endurolytes tablets on longer rides, along with my usual water, Hammer gel and Accelerade. I managed to complete a Metric Century in May, albeit with some minor cramping issues from mile 40 on. A couple weeks back, I set out on a 50-mile training ride with about 3200 feet of climbing. I had consumed a couple of diet sodas and a glass of water the night before. At mile 23, I felt the onset of cramping in my left quad (where it usually starts for me). I stopped soon after at a Robeks and got a fruit smoothie and refilled my water bottles. I got back on the bike after about a 15-minute break and felt better. The cramps were manageable until I got to the last major climb of the day at mile 40. I had to stop four times in two miles to un-knot my legs. It got so bad that when I tried to stretch, they locked up even tighter. By the time I was over the hill and on the flat heading toward home, the pain was constant, and the knots were all over my legs. At one point, I stopped at a light, unclipped, put my foot down and proceeded to fall over as both legs locked up and gave out. I'm sure the motorists got a kick out of it, and one couple did a U-turn down the block to come back and check on me. When I arrived home from the ride, I didn't trust my legs to hold me up, so I rode onto my lawn and fell over in the grass. Also, despite drinking four bottles of water and a smoothie, I did not have to pee during the entire ride (dehydration, anyone?).

Fast forward to this weekend. My wife and I had a 42-mile training ride planned. At the suggestion of some of the posts on this and other forums, I added one thing to my prep list. I consumed 3 liters of Smartwater (it's got Electrolytes!) the day before my ride (kind of 'hydro-loading'). I had to get up twice during the night to pee, and once more the next morning, peeing clear each time. I also traded my two water bottles for my 3L camelbak, so I would be sure to drink more often during the ride. Over the course of the ride, I consumed most of my camelbak of water, one gel, four Endurolytes caps and a bottle of Accelerade. I had no cramping whatsoever, and stood on several of the climbs (which generally brings them on for me). I also had to stop and water the bushes twice.

Conclusion: I think enough fluids in the days before a ride are the key for me, and I'm guessing the Smartwater doesn't hurt. We'll see if this success translates to 102 miles in a couple of weeks. :D

Jim

bdinger, have you tried any of this stuff out? What's your opinion?

I also traded my two water bottles for my 3L camelbak, so I would be sure to drink more often during the ride.


I think I might have to do that also. I really don't want to carry a pack but my 2 water bottles aren't cutting it and I got pretty deydrated the other day on a 2 hour ride. Either that or I'm going to have to strap two more cages on my bike somewhere.

Dehydration can play havok on a persons body.

I think I might have to do that also. I really don't want to carry a pack but my 2 water bottles aren't cutting it and I got pretty deydrated the other day on a 2 hour ride. Either that or I'm going to have to strap two more cages on my bike somewhere.

Dehydration can play havok on a persons body.

Lookie here! Double cage behind the saddle mount!, just add cages!

http://www.keithstriathlon.com/detail.aspx?ID=433

Lookie here! Double cage behind the saddle mount!, just add cages!

http://www.keithstriathlon.com/detail.aspx?ID=433


I've been looking for one of those that will work with my under saddle bag. Also one that sits back far enough that my extra butt cushion isn't sitting on the bottles. I'll be stopping at the LBS tonight to see what they got. I suppose I could get a different bag also.

Edit: Maybe something like this would work.

http://www.keithstriathlon.com/detail.aspx?ID=551

I've been looking for one of those that will work with my under saddle bag. Also one that sits back far enough that my extra butt cushion isn't sitting on the bottles. I'll be stopping at the LBS tonight to see what they got. I suppose I could get a different bag also.

Edit: Maybe something like this would work.

http://www.keithstriathlon.com/detail.aspx?ID=551

That would be the other one I'd suggest!:D

That would be the other one I'd suggest!:D

This also might work if I mounted it way down at the bottom the post.

http://www.keithstriathlon.com/detail.aspx?ID=307


Hopefully the LBS will have one of these.

This also might work if I mounted it way down at the bottom the post.

http://www.keithstriathlon.com/detail.aspx?ID=307


Hopefully the LBS will have one of these.

Or this, you'd need the cages, but the angle is also adjustable as far as bottle tile. (Saddle mounted)
http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/ACH2OSYS/WC2019

Or handlebar clamps
http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/ACH2OSYS/WC3002