View Full Version : Proof that Rasmussen is as good as Lance.
"A former amateur mountain-bike racer alleged Thursday that Tour de France yellow jersey holder Michael Rasmussen (Rabobank) attempted to trick him into carrying illegal doping products to Europe in 2002."
http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/news/articles/12851.0.html
Just goes to show it's not an anti-US conspiracy, anyone can get targeted from the past.
The following will now happen:
1. Denial, denial, denial.
2. Some ridiculous story will surface,"the dope was for my chickens".
3. He will hire lawyers, big $$ lawyers.
4. He'll write a book.
5. Danes and chickens will filter into forums blindly supporting him.
6. He'll start a blog to raise money.
7. He'll blame the French.
http://www.adamssuperfood.com/data/productimages/fried%20chicken%20-%20large.jpg
Blaireau
07-20-07, 12:12 PM
"A former amateur mountain-bike racer alleged Thursday that Tour de France yellow jersey holder Michael Rasmussen (Rabobank) attempted to trick him into carrying illegal doping products to Europe in 2002."
http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/news/articles/12851.0.html
Just goes to show it's not an anti-US conspiracy, anyone can get targeted from the past.
The following will now happen:
1. Denial, denial, denial.
2. Some ridiculous story will surface,"the dope was for my chickens".
3. He will hire lawyers, big $$ lawyers.
4. He'll write a book.
5. Danes and chickens will filter into forums blindly supporting him.
6. He'll start a blog to raise money.
7. He'll blame the French.
Doc,
I hate to say it, but you are probably right.
Interestingly, this story was in David Walsh's excellent but very depressing new book: "From Lance to Landis." Though no one was named.
God what a sad state of affairs.
Hornbiker
07-20-07, 12:16 PM
"A former amateur mountain-bike racer alleged Thursday that Tour de France yellow jersey holder Michael Rasmussen (Rabobank) attempted to trick him into carrying illegal doping products to Europe in 2002."
http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/news/articles/12851.0.html
Just goes to show it's not an anti-US conspiracy, anyone can get targeted from the past.
The following will now happen:
1. Denial, denial, denial.
2. Some ridiculous story will surface,"the dope was for my chickens".
3. He will hire lawyers, big $$ lawyers.
4. He'll write a book.
5. Danes and chickens will filter into forums blindly supporting him.
6. He'll start a blog to raise money.
7. He'll blame the French.
You kill me! #5 is my favorite, I'll keep a look out.
I doubt they'll be able to do much with this confession so he won't have to raise money or fight a doping charge, but I agree the denials and crazy stories are about to roll!
Enthalpic
07-20-07, 12:22 PM
Wwibd?
'nother
07-20-07, 12:23 PM
Wwibd?
he would say, "I was only preparing to dope"
Lithuania
07-20-07, 12:26 PM
Doc,
Im curious here. Is it even possible for you to believe an athlete that has been accused of something? Regardless of wether the athlete actually did it or not it really seems like you condem that as soon as possible.
Randomus
07-20-07, 12:30 PM
What would the TdF be without a dopin allegation halfway through the race? :rolleyes:
I'm surprised that the clean cyclists (assuming they still exist on the ProTour level) aren't pissed that all these blood dopers are ruining it for everybody. Why is there so little outrage among cyclists?
'nother
07-20-07, 12:32 PM
Why is there so little outrage among cyclists?
Oh, but there is...outrage about all of these 'false allegations'.
Doc,
Im curious here. Is it even possible for you to believe an athlete that has been accused of something? Regardless of wether the athlete actually did it or not it really seems like you condem that as soon as possible.
Not when that athlete is pulling minutes/stage way all alone from the world's best cyclists without even sweating.
Super human efforts are just that. This is just the tip of the iceberg, the issue with the Danish team is independent of this.
If you want to live your life believing in fairies and +8 minute solo breaks, go ahead.
Bacciagalupe
07-20-07, 12:54 PM
Yeah, whatever.
I have no doubt that doping rates are high in every sport, not just cycling. But circumstantial evidence like this is pretty flimsy and unreliable.
Unless there's tangible evidence, it seems rather pointless to accuse a rider in this manner.
5. Danes and chickens will filter into forums blindly supporting him.
And since it's, at this point, completely unsubstantiated, jackasses and trolls will filter into forums blindly trashing him...especially ones that display a clear bias against his country of origin.
Lithuania
07-20-07, 12:58 PM
Not when that athlete is pulling minutes/stage way all alone from the world's best cyclists without even sweating.
Super human efforts are just that. This is just the tip of the iceberg, the issue with the Danish team is independent of this.
If you want to live your life believing in fairies and +8 minute solo breaks, go ahead.
for the record i am in the i think they all dope boat
So if I understand you correctly, if a middling domestique with no heroic efforts is accused of doping and he denies it you will believe him.
Not when that athlete is pulling minutes/stage way all alone from the world's best cyclists without even sweating.
Super human efforts are just that. This is just the tip of the iceberg, the issue with the Danish team is independent of this.
If you want to live your life believing in fairies and +8 minute solo breaks, go ahead.
Absolutely right. Besides, look how much it helped his time trialing!
'nother
07-20-07, 01:01 PM
Absolutely right. Besides, look how much it helped his time trialing!
There is no drug on earth that could help that.
Cromulent
07-20-07, 01:09 PM
There is no drug on earth that could help that.
We'll find out on Saturday. If he loses six minutes... okay, he practiced. If he keeps up with Valverde and Leipheimer, that'll raise an eyebrow. If he keeps up with Evans and Kloden, then both eyebrows go up along with a red flag. He wins? Then we will be witnessing a brand new super drug, and I will want to know where I can get some.
Yeah, whatever.
I have no doubt that doping rates are high in every sport, not just cycling. But circumstantial evidence like this is pretty flimsy and unreliable.
Unless there's tangible evidence, it seems rather pointless to accuse a rider in this manner.
this is not circumstantial.
dropinloads
07-20-07, 01:20 PM
This $hit is getting old. I have a feeling whoever wears MJ will always be a target now for crap like this.
Absolutely right. Besides, look how much it helped his time trialing!
You listen to bobke too much, Rasmussen crashed twice during that infamous time trial.
This $hit is getting old. I have a feeling whoever wears MJ will always be a target now for crap like this.
perhaps if they weren't hiding anything they wouldn't be.
Two people documented as making these accusations off the record years ago. Seems like a pretty complex set up for the type of opportunistic fame seeking you seem to be implying.
Yeah, whatever.
I have no doubt that doping rates are high in every sport, not just cycling. But circumstantial evidence like this is pretty flimsy and unreliable.
Unless there's tangible evidence, it seems rather pointless to accuse a rider in this manner.
Talk to the Danish team.
As noted, this is not circumstantial, this is a direct accusation. The guilty until proven innocent thing is getting old...especially when people don't even understand basic principles of law.
What's amazing to me is that you guys think that professional organizations of ex-cyclists and nations just randomly pick out people to frame.
My guess is by the end of this weekend, some more facts will come to light.
From my perspective, some one who used to ride alot but not any more but still loves to watch the tour on tv each year, these allegations really do take alot of the fun out of it. It takes away from the excitement of wanting to see people push themselves to greatness in a fair way, because that is what makes humans great, the ability to go further than was believed could be done and break boundaries, but also rooting for the underdog and having the underdog or the guy with heart dig deep and find he had it in him. That's why the landis thing seemed special last year, and that is why people dont want to believe he doped. Part of me wants this industry of making money from alleging atheletes are doping, and believe me it is a big industry, it give publishers books to publish, and commentators something to talk about, but if all the allegations go away I guess that just leaves us with an illusion, because as long as there is money or fame to be had a large percentage of people will cheat to win. Is an illusion a bad thing? Are our heroes ever really who want to think they are? An if our idea of a hero really is an illusion, is it not a necessary illusion for the vast majority of us who will never reach that level?
Lithuania
07-20-07, 01:35 PM
Talk to the Danish team.
As noted, this is not circumstantial, this is a direct accusation. The guilty until proven innocent thing is getting old...especially when people don't even understand basic principles of law.
What's amazing to me is that you guys think that professional organizations of ex-cyclists and nations just randomly pick out people to frame.
My guess is by the end of this weekend, some more facts will come to light.
so accusations equal guilt these days?
chipcom
07-20-07, 01:37 PM
What's amazing to me is that you guys think that professional organizations of ex-cyclists and nations just randomly pick out people to frame.
Now that you have mentioned our organization and its goals, we're gonna have to kill you, or at least add you to our list of people to frame. :eek:
skinnyone
07-20-07, 01:45 PM
He also said "I have never failed a doping test"..
You listen to bobke too much, Rasmussen crashed twice during that infamous time trial.
He did crash twice. Because he's a terrible, awful time trialist. He looked like he could barely control that bike. I suspect this year will be a little different, because he actually practiced on a time trial bike for the first time ever.
And not for nothing, but he said he never practiced on one before, because he thought he was such an awful time trialist that nothing would help.
linux_author
07-20-07, 01:49 PM
- nothing new here, really...
- doping has been a part of the TDF since the beginning... the practice is ingrained, and part of the tradition of this bike race...
- the TDF has NEVER been 'dope free'...
Theakston
07-20-07, 01:54 PM
And since it's, at this point, completely unsubstantiated, jackasses and trolls will filter into forums blindly trashing him...especially ones that display a clear bias against his country of origin.:D well said that man!
What's amazing to me is that you guys think that professional organizations of ex-cyclists and nations just randomly pick out people to frame.
Not at all. I just think it's completely irresponsible, not to mention intellectually dishonest and lazy, to make the kind of assumptions that you routinely make.
However, while I don't think, say, Floyd was picked out, framed, whatever, I don't think for a second that WADA, etc, feel they have to "prove" his guilt at this point, simply to cover up their own incompetence. I don't know whether or not Floyd is guilty, but I do know that WADA, their labs, etc...have not put themselves above reproach or suspicion.
I'm assuming, by your screen name, that you are a doctor? Certainly you understand the need for protocol, and the damage that can be done by failing to follow it. Tell you what - fix the problem they have with the labs, and I'll absolutely be the first to forsake these guys. Fair enough?
My guess is by the end of this weekend, some more facts will come to light.
Heh...
Not at all. I just think it's completely irresponsible, not to mention intellectually dishonest and lazy, to make the kind of assumptions that you routinely make.
However, while I don't think, say, Floyd was picked out, framed, whatever, I don't think for a second that WADA, etc, feel they have to "prove" his guilt at this point, simply to cover up their own incompetence. I don't know whether or not Floyd is guilty, but I do know that WADA, their labs, etc...have not put themselves above reproach or suspicion.
I'm assuming, by your screen name, that you are a doctor? Certainly you understand the need for protocol, and the damage that can be done by failing to follow it. Tell you what - fix the problem they have with the labs, and I'll absolutely be the first to forsake these guys. Fair enough?
Heh...
I'll assume you're a buddhist then, so put down the bong and read the thread.
To start with, we're talking about Rasmussen and an accuser. no labs.
but you're already at point #7..blame the French.
Blaireau
07-20-07, 02:02 PM
He also said "I have never failed a doping test"..
That's so goddammed meaningless. :rolleyes:
In the world of UCI sponsored tests, negative results in no way mean that no doping has taken place. That is a truism that no amount of legal babble can negate.
Newsflash: the legal system, such as it is today , is a tool to protect the wealthy (including cyclists, a la Landis, Lance, Basso....) from accountability and nail the small guy.
How many "cases" are we going to go through before people get this through their heads.... And yes, to be competitive in the Tour, you have to dope! Period.
That the above is true, should be obvious regardless of whether or not you approve of doping....
so accusations equal guilt these days?
no, but information forms opinion. See other threads about the Danish cycling team and the chicken.
And since it's, at this point, completely unsubstantiated, jackasses and trolls will filter into forums blindly trashing him...especially ones that display a clear bias against his country of origin.
That's ok, because he'll just point out that he is trustworthy because his home country is morally superior to all others.
He also said "I have never failed a doping test"..
next it's, "I never cheated my fellow riders".
'nother
07-20-07, 02:17 PM
next it's, "I never cheated my fellow riders".
When does the "whiskey theory" come in? Or does he have to have an "adverse result" to trigger that :p
Blaireau
07-20-07, 02:19 PM
When does the "whiskey theory" come in? Or does he have to have an "adverse result" to trigger that :p
I don't know, but in light of your humor I don't get your sig line....
Want mine ?:p
'nother
07-20-07, 02:22 PM
I don't know, but in light of your humor I don't get your sig line....
What's not to get?
Want mine ?:p
Not really.
Lithuania
07-20-07, 02:30 PM
saying i never failed a doping test is so stupid. Its like they are leaving themselve a loophole.
'nother
07-20-07, 02:31 PM
Its like they are leaving themselve a loophole.
I know -- weird. Why on earth would they want to do that?
7. He'll blame the French.
People, people, people. We're not blaming the French on this one. It's the Italians, dammit!
And since it's, at this point, completely unsubstantiated, jackasses and trolls will filter into forums blindly trashing him...especially ones that display a clear bias against his country of origin.
Er, what? What's not to love about Denmark?
Bacciagalupe
07-20-07, 05:07 PM
As noted, this is not circumstantial, this is a direct accusation. The guilty until proven innocent thing is getting old...especially when people don't even understand basic principles of law.
It's a verbal accusation; it is, to my knowledge, insufficient evidence to enact any kind of sanctions. For example, CJ Hunter testified under oath that his ex-wife, Marion Jones, doped extensively. Since Hunter was (acrimoniously iirc) divorced from Jones and himself busted for nandrolone, he could have a wide variety of motives to either tell a damaging lie or a damaging truth; without physical / corroborating evidence it's obviously difficult to say. At any rate, his testimony was still insufficient for any anti-doping organization to punish Jones.
When you have lab tests or physical evidence, I'm on board. Random accusations where the physical evidence was destroyed years ago are far too easy to fabricate, and therefore do not strike me as sufficient cause for action.
What's amazing to me is that you guys think that professional organizations of ex-cyclists and nations just randomly pick out people to frame.
Others might think that, but I don't. I have no problems believing that it is highly likely that Landis doped, that Millar fully deserved to be busted, that Hamilton's defense was often ludicrous, that Basso and Hamilton (and currently unnamed others) used Fuentes in order to acquire PED's, etc.
However, I find accusations like this to be somewhat specious and questionable. Show me some hard evidence and I'm on board. Otherwise, it seems like you are presuming that 100% of riders / athletes are doping, and are merely hunting for any excuse to nail their heads to the floor.
And if that's the case, may I suggest you take up Madden NFL? (http://www.easports.com/madden07/) At least then you don't have to worry about UCI busts. ;)
I'll assume you're a buddhist then, so put down the bong and read the thread.
To start with, we're talking about Rasmussen and an accuser. no labs.
but you're already at point #7..blame the French.
:rolleyes: There was never any doubt in my mind that you'd avoid the question.
You really don't bother with facts at all, though, do you? You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy, it's too bad you can't stop the knee-jerk trolling, and actually have a conversation about ... anything.
Er, what? What's not to love about Denmark?
That was a comment on the troll that started this thread, not on Denmark.
no, but information forms opinion. See other threads about the Danish cycling team and the chicken.
are you a doctor? you dont argue like one. you argue, i mean debate, more like a lawyer or politician :D.
oh, and the all dope. he did it. they all do it. they will all get caught. later.
I thought this thread was going to be about how he was trying to get Hemopure into Europe, which seems to me to be similar to Actovegin, the calf-derived blood product which previously filled the empty bags that USPS team officials were found dumping in a public trash can some 60 miles from a stage in the 2000 Tour.
Talk to the Danish team.
As noted, this is not circumstantial, this is a direct accusation. The guilty until proven innocent thing is getting old...especially when people don't even understand basic principles of law.
What's amazing to me is that you guys think that professional organizations of ex-cyclists and nations just randomly pick out people to frame.
My guess is by the end of this weekend, some more facts will come to light.
Doc Ray,
I think you are a trolling ******.
What does missing/late paperwork have to do with the shoes fiasco?
One has nothing to do with the other.
You try to bully people with half truths,
I'll give you this you're good at smearing everyone. From your avitar to the catch phrase innuendo of child abuse.
What is your point? Other than being a schadenfreude.
Oh yea, Rasmussen crashed at least 3 times in the infamous TT and add in a couple of wheel/bike changes.
Just one example of your half truths.
BTW-I'm no fan of Rassmusen and I think he craps the bed tomorrow.
Also the title of this thread proves your intent.
YOU ARE A TROLL.
roadwarrior
07-21-07, 05:27 AM
Doc...
:roflmao:
Believe it or not, a lot of info about a bunch of things that was released last week is more the result of political infighting between ASO and UCI. Most of this stuff is old news and had there been any fire with the smoke, ASO would have banned Rasmussen from starting. In fact, had Rasmussen not achieved the leader's jersey, most likely none of this would have been released. There would be no point.
You realize that Sinkewitz' test occurred well before the Tour started and it was just released, right? The test took place on June 8. Over a month later, it's news.
Riiiiiighttt....
Whatever.
Theakston
07-21-07, 01:07 PM
Doc Ray,
I think you are a trolling ******.
.
right on bro!
Blaireau
07-21-07, 01:49 PM
right on bro!
"Bro". ?!?
What is this, the brotherhood of those who throw insults when they are incapable of responding to a cogent argument?
Insulting those you disagree with does no good to the point of view you represent. Which I gather is something of a misguided attempt to defend cycling by effectively denying that there is a doping problem in the sport. It includes a vehement attack on those who bring up doping; one could call it the "Botto-ostrich" position. Just imagine an angry know-it-all ostrich....
By avoiding and denying the reality that there is systemic doping in cycling you guys do no favors to the sport you pretend to support and know better than everyone. In fact you are digging its grave.
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