Ultimate Cargo Bike

[Sammyboy]

So I've been thinking about how to make the ultimate machine for shifting stuff. Someone on the C&V forum has converted one of those huge Wald baskets into a Porteur style front rack, and that made me think, what about an Xtracycle, or more likely either a Surly BigDummy, or one of the ones Kona has in the pipeline, with a porteur rack, and a lowrider front rack (which might foul the stays for the Wald, meaning spending for a more expensive porteur). The other idea I had was, what about putting a FreeRadical on this, from Pashley....

http://www.pashley.co.uk/cms/products/main_16.jpeg

[donnamb]

Very interesting thought. With an Xtracycle, I personally would want a 7 or 8 gear hub, although BAH may well disagree with my opinion. Do you know if the Pashley could at least have a 3 speed hub?

[Sammyboy]

The Pashley comes with a 3 speed, and would be easy to upgrade to a 7 or 8 speed. The problem with it is that it's expensive, at £600 or so. There are similar bikes made in India and China, albeit single speed and with rod brakes, which ought to be much cheaper.

[johann]

Ultimate, yes, to me though it might seem a bit overkill. I am glad my Xtracycle has a 7-speed internal hub. But if you insist on low-gravity in the front, here's the American version that would certainly mate up with an Xtracycle. I believe Worksman can configure just about any hub you would want on the rear (except maybe they don't stock Rohloffs :)

http://www.worksman.com/images/basket2.gif

If you insist on carrying the big loads up front and in back, Worksman has something there as well...

http://www.worksman.com/images/reardelivery.gif

Lots of options for configuring Worksman bikes, and always a fun site for the cargo-bike minded to visit:

Worksman Bicycles (http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/index.html)

[Nightshade]

Ultimate, yes, to me though it might seem a bit overkill. I am glad my Xtracycle has a 7-speed internal hub. But if you insist on low-gravity in the front, here's the American version that would certainly mate up with an Xtracycle. I believe Worksman can configure just about any hub you would want on the rear (except maybe they don't stock Rohloffs :)

http://www.worksman.com/images/basket2.gif

If you insist on carrying the big loads up front and in back, Worksman has something there as well...

http://www.worksman.com/images/reardelivery.gif

Lots of options for configuring Worksman bikes, and always a fun site for the cargo-bike minded to visit:

Worksman Bicycles (http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/index.html)

Worksman is all about 'cargo' but their main focus is industrial cargo use. As far as special hubs
etc. you can get anything you want as long as Worksman has an industrial market already.
Rohloff hubs are not an industrial item so the choice is single speed,3 speed, or 7 speed. Period.

IMO, in America, Worksman IS THE ultimate cargo bike. Built like a tank and will carry more than
you can pedal.

[donnamb]

Now I realize the Worksman bikes are made for industrial purposes, so it's not a criticism of the company or quality of their bikes at all - but they're so ugly! :( What I really like about the Pashley is how aesthetically pleasing it is. I guess I'm shallow... :o

[Bushman]

Ultimate Cargo bike:

http://www.workcycles.com/workcycles-bakfietsen-images/nijland/gesloten-bakfiets/gesloten-bakfiets-420.jpg
http://www.workcycles.com/workcycles-bakfietsen-images/nijland/grote-bakfiets/grote-klassieke-bakfiets-420.jpg
http://www.workcycles.com/workcycles-bakfietsen-images/nijland/ouderwetse-bakfiets/kleine-klassieke-bakfiets-420.jpg


nuff said.

oh and this should be in UTILITY/CARGO CYCLING and not in "car free"

[donnamb]

Those are real beauties, Bushman. And be patient, we're working on it. ;)

[Nightshade]

Now I realize the Worksman bikes are made for industrial purposes, so it's not a criticism of the company or quality of their bikes at all - but they're so ugly! :(

Hey! Hey! Wait a minute Here!!! Worksman ARE beautiful cargo haulers they are so
robust and manly!! :D:D:D

Ya ought to see my tricked out Worksman PAV trike !!!;););)

[Bushman]

Those are real beauties, Bushman. And be patient, we're working on it. ;)

i know :) i'm all excited and my exuberance is besting me..... dont mind me (i'm always a bit surly int he morning before that first pot of java)

:p

[Sammyboy]

That thing is a beaut. I guess I should've qualified with "Ultimate cargo bike that still looks a bit like a bike!"

[mike]

Ultimate Cargo bike:

http://www.workcycles.com/workcycles-bakfietsen-images/nijland/gesloten-bakfiets/gesloten-bakfiets-420.jpg

"

What is that; a velo coffin?

[Platy]

What is that; a velo coffin?
Well, there could be a secondary market for velovampires on tour.

[wahoonc]

What is that; a velo coffin?

Only for midgets:rolleyes::p

I have a friend in the Netherlands that has one of those...belonged to his grandfather who owned a bakery. They used it to deliver bread to the local restaurants. I am sure there are other uses for them too.

And Bushman, I agree those things are drop dead gorgeous.

Aaron:)

[cerewa]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that thing pictured above (post#7) is a bicycle hearse.

Hey, everybody, let's write in our wills that we want to be transported by pedal power after death! Heehee.

[Bushman]

What is that; a velo coffin?


nope :) that is a locking Tradesman toolbox 4' x 5' .

in the new year i'll be dropping the coin ($5000 here in BC, Canada to bring one in) on that very model, with an additional $2000 upgrade for a custom built bull low Slumph drive on the BB and a Rohloff rear hub , with drum brake.

[donnamb]

nope :) that is a locking Tradesman toolbox 4' x 5' .

in the new year i'll be dropping the coin ($5000 here in BC, Canada to bring one in) on that very model, with an additional $2000 upgrade for a custom built bull low Slumph drive on the BB and a Rohloff rear hub , with drum brake.
You realize we'll all find you and hunt you down if you do not post pics when the time comes, don't you?

[AllenG]

nope :) that is a locking Tradesman toolbox 4' x 5' .

in the new year i'll be dropping the coin ($5000 here in BC, Canada to bring one in) on that very model, with an additional $2000 upgrade for a custom built bull low Slumph drive on the BB and a Rohloff rear hub , with drum brake.

You are going to have to go with a disk brake on that Rohloff, they don't make a drum brake version as yet.

[bragi]

I have a question: How do these things work on big hills?! Seattle has a LOT of hills, and I'm wondering how one could get a big load over Phinney Ridge, for example. This is a serious question, BTW. Last spring I borrowed a truck to haul science fair projects across town, but I would have preferred to transport them by bike...

[Bushman]

I stand corrected on the drum brake. The drum brake is only available on the rear if you go with a singlespeed setup. So looks like disc brake on the back if i go with the rollof, and smaller drums on the front.

as for hills, low and slow baby! spin spin spin spin. Let the gears do the work. When descending STEEP long hills, alternate the brakes (front, rear, on off, repeat. ) this lets the brake shoes cool and prevents brake fade.

the most i have carried in a borrowed cargo bike (Workman) was 500lbs. Going up hil using a 20 front 34 rear cog was actually quite easy. Going down i had some brake fade, but as soon as i pumped the brakes it went away. The hill was about a 15% grade, long and curvy.

[gcl8a]

These could be yours for only 2000 crowns.

http://www.guloggratis.dk/modules/xphoto/cache/96/3316596_520_1100.jpg

http://www.guloggratis.dk/modules/xphoto/cache/62/2411362_520_1100.jpg

[gcl8a]

http://www.mip.sdu.dk/~glewin/cykler/budcykel.jpg

[Doug5150]

So I've been thinking about how to make the ultimate machine for shifting stuff. ...
Overall I prefer the bakfiets-style (the long-johns).

....The problem with the delivery bike pictured is that the cargo floor (inside the basket) isn't as low as it could be, and if you need to carry anything heavy, it's best to carry it as low as you can get it.

....The Xtracycles don't impress me much because while it definitely does add cargo capacity, it's very odd-shaped capacity. The long-johns with their big open boxes on the front would seem to be far more convenient for just tossing stuff in. I want a bike with baskets that I can just toss stuff in and go! Having to strap stuff on is a pain. If you use a bike to carry a lot, you're going to be strapping and unstrapping things to and from it hundreds of times, perhaps thousands of times. Consider for one short moment, how much of your time those straps are going to take up, and you realize why it's best to have a big deep basket you can just toss things in and ride away.

....Also I prefer front-mounted baskets, because you can watch what you're carrying, while you're riding. If something comes loose or falls out, there's a decent chance you may see it happen. Not so with a rear-basket bike! :eek:

-----

About the only changes I'd make to a bakfiets is I'd want a wire-mesh basket instead of a wood box; the wire mesh is more durable and less wind resistance. And I'd want the rear of the frame leaned back like a RANS Fusion, with the same style seat.
~

[mstrpete]

I have a question: How do these things work on big hills?! Seattle has a LOT of hills, and I'm wondering how one could get a big load over Phinney Ridge, for example. This is a serious question, BTW. Last spring I borrowed a truck to haul science fair projects across town, but I would have preferred to transport them by bike...

Stoke Monkey? Or is that cheating?

[Bekologist]

This is by no means the 'ultimate' cargo bike, but it sure did serve me well for over a decade. The biggest Wald basket available in front, paperboy wald baskets in the back.6 speed drivetrain for hillclimbing.

Used it enough to actually break the front basket from fatigue, replaced it with same HD Wald basket. Sad to say I snapped the frame last year and need to recreate it with a new cruiser frame.

I had been thinking of reinforcing the stays and making a big platform for the back baskets that could be installed when needed, to haul a LOT of bulky stuff.

[le brad]

Stoke Monkey? Or is that cheating?

Cheating! You're banned from even viewing the forum.

[wahoonc]

This is by no means the 'ultimate' cargo bike, but it sure did serve me well for over a decade. The biggest Wald basket available in front, paperboy wald baskets in the back.6 speed drivetrain for hillclimbing.

Used it enough to actually break the front basket from fatigue, replaced it with same HD Wald basket. Sad to say I snapped the frame last year and need to recreate it with a new cruiser frame.

I had been thinking of reinforcing the stays and making a big platform for the back baskets that could be installed when needed, to haul a LOT of bulky stuff.

Bekologist,
To me that is the American version of the bakfiets...and a lot cheaper too;):D I am going to get an "oude bakfiets" eventually. For the interim I will be "building" up a grocery getter similar to yours. I plan on using the Schwinn Classic 3 as the base bike then bolting the Wald baskets on it. The xtracycle has it's place but it isn't for all people or all uses. Another item to remember is that the bakfiets comes from the Netherlands where the total elevation range is about 320 meters total, with most of it basically flat so the bakefiets worked quite well. Here in the US the terrain can be quite a bit more varied. From the Appalacians, to the flat Midwest to the Rockies. FWIW the area I currently live in has rolling hills and a single speed bike is murder. The town we are planning on moving to is flat, as in a total elevation loss/gain of less than 50 feet anywhere in the town limits, a bakefiets will work fine there. Also the bakefiets now come with multi speed internal gear hubs:D but you pay the price.

Have you looked into having the frame repaired? It looks to be steel. I broke a frame on my Schwinn Heavy Duty years ago and it was replaced under the lifetime warranty...those were the days:rolleyes:;)

Aaron:)

[makeinu]

This isn't a task for a small shop, but it would be really great to have a tandem pedicab that combines power like a tandem. Then me and my wife could haul bus loads of people at a time on the weekends.

[AllenG]

I've recently put a new hub on my cargo bike (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=288973&highlight=morgan), a NuVinci (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=281858) CVT (continuous variable transmission) hub. I've found that some of the less expensive internal hubs are not up to the rigors of a utility bike. So far it's impressed me as much my Rohloff at 1/4 the cost. It's huge and would not necessary be appropriate on many bikes, but for cargo and utility bikes I think it may very well be the best "bang for the buck" of all the internal hubs.

http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/NuVinci/XtraLite.jpg

[Cosmoline]

I've been experimenting with ways of hauling things for the past year, and I have a few observations.

--Big front baskets are great, except when you actually start putting a lot of weight in them. If you're buying nothing but bread it's not a big deal, but when you put over 20, 30 or more lbs up front the balance on most bikes starts going off. You can have a reverse trike, with two wheels up front. But this then limits the praticality of the bicycle for other functions. The key may be to design a two wheeled bicycle that has a frame designed to accept heavy loads up front, but lower down towards the center of gravity.

--On a diamond frame bike, there's a magic zone for weight carrying inside the diamond. The further behind or in front you get, the greater the leverage on the frame from the cargo and the more it impacts balance. In the old days folks used to take advantage of this space a lot more, but recent bike design has attempted to eliminate it or discard the diamond completely. A bike that EXPANDED the diamond and created cargo carrying capacity underneath the rider, without blocking knee room, would be interesting.

--Bicycles can be incredibly strong, and even mid-range factory bikes can carry over 400 lbs on a regular basis with some minor modifications. Assuming a rider of 220, this leaves a great deal of room for cargo. But the key is to center the cargo's weight where the rider's weight would be. The easiest way is probably to just wear a backpack, but this interferes with cycling and vision. One thing I've been thinking about is a sort of tandem bike where the spot for the second rider is used to hold cargo.

Anyway, just some thoughts. I'll add more later.

[johann]

Overall I prefer the bakfiets-style (the long-johns).

....The problem with the delivery bike pictured is that the cargo floor (inside the basket) isn't as low as it could be, and if you need to carry anything heavy, it's best to carry it as low as you can get it.

....The Xtracycles don't impress me much because while it definitely does add cargo capacity, it's very odd-shaped capacity. ....... Consider for one short moment, how much of your time those straps are going to take up, and you realize why it's best to have a big deep basket you can just toss things in and ride away.
~

I think you have to consider where you are using the bike... try jumping onto a curb with a bakfiets (or a trike). Maybe something like a Burrows Great 8?

[Doug5150]

I think you have to consider where you are using the bike... try jumping onto a curb with a bakfiets (or a trike). Maybe something like a Burrows Great 8?
In my country adults aren't supposed to ride bicycles on the sidewalk, and I rarely ever do.
~

[SingingSabre]

....The Xtracycles don't impress me much because while it definitely does add cargo capacity, it's very odd-shaped capacity. The long-johns with their big open boxes on the front would seem to be far more convenient for just tossing stuff in. I want a bike with baskets that I can just toss stuff in and go! Having to strap stuff on is a pain. If you use a bike to carry a lot, you're going to be strapping and unstrapping things to and from it hundreds of times, perhaps thousands of times. Consider for one short moment, how much of your time those straps are going to take up, and you realize why it's best to have a big deep basket you can just toss things in and ride away.

Well, if the long-john works for you.

I think it really depends on what you're needing to haul, how far the haul is, and what terrain you'll be covering. I have one buckle on my Xtracycle I mess with to carry my stuff and secure my backpack into the bag. Even that one strap is really unncessary.

However, I am riding at least 10 miles each way up varying terrain, 99% of the time with a climb where I have to go to my 2nd front ring and 3rd rear just to get a decent spin.

If I were in the business of delivering stuff and needing to constantly pack and unpack over 10 stops in 5 miles with flat terrain, the long-john would be suitable. I'm not, though. I need to haul stuff far and at a decent pace (I'm a busy man, what can I say?).

I also utilize the pouches inside the bags. I have a patch kit, pump, CO2 cartridges, spare tube (I'm redundant...deal with it!), dork vest, wrenches and tools (only a couple), and my U-lock (OnGuard Bulldog) all in one pouch. I still have room on it for firedancing gear (fire staff, poi, torches, glow staff, fuel, practice staff if I'm feeling frisky), my backpack including my laptop, my camera (another backpack with a DSLR, 3 lenses, and a flash), and a tripod. I'm sure I could carry more, but I just don't have anything else to load! This load on my Xtracycle will take me about 40 minutes to get 10 miles in fairly flat terrain (a couple mild climbs).

For me, the Xtracycle is the ne plus ultra for its sheer versatility and how it is out of the way when not in use. For you, it may be different, but I just wanted to give my input.

[Frankenbiker]

+1 for the Xtracycle. I have been very happy with its flexibility in hauling stuff over the past several years. Everything from groceries to bags of manure and the kitchen sink have been loaded on my bike. Last December I added a lockable/removable/water tight motorcycle trunk so I can store things relatively securely on the bike. See sig. Yesterday's grocery run saw me carry a hot, broiled chicken from the deli and three pounds of squishible table grapes in the trunk along with eight bags of groceries in the side pockets.

[Bushman]

im going to buy a used mountain tandem, and convert to a cargo bike by making the rear stoker area into a huge rack system, most likely with custom cargo boxes on each side

[bicyclerider1]

I only have a Miami Sun trike modified to pull my Home Depot garden card (1,000 pounds capacity) to haul my stuff.

[Sianelle]

This what I used for well over a year to haul allsorts of silly loads.....

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/331/raleightrikepv0.jpg

It's an old gents Raleigh fitted with a tricycle axle and 20inch wheels on the rear. The Raleigh itself was found down at the rubbish tip and the axle was purchased from a business that sold custom parts for lowrider bicycles. In the end I managed to sheer the drive and bend the axle, but that was my own silly fault for overloading the poor old thing.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/6149/bicycleto9.gif

Cheers,

Annie

[donnamb]

Wow, Annie, that's amazing.

[Sammyboy]

The problems with baskets are, I suspect, mitigated if the basket is mounted to the frame, rather than the bars/fork, so it can't pull the bars around. I imagine that's what's on the bike I posted originally, but it's definitely on this 1957 BSA I bought for my former housemate.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Samuelw72/P2120012.jpg

[Bushman]

^ i agree! i had a messenger bike with a huge fork/handlebar mounted flat rack, and it was brutal when loaded. Very hard to control. when i ended welding the rack to the frame all that sloppy handling wen t away

[bmike]

We have a Bakfiets, and love it...

http://littlecircles.typepad.com/little_circles/images/2007/07/25/img_3684.jpg

Some stock images:

http://lh5.google.com/mike.beganyi/Rq46lfZNf5I/AAAAAAAACaY/qT6sKGUJfG4/s400/Picture%20024.jpg

http://lh5.google.com/mike.beganyi/Rq46ufZNf6I/AAAAAAAACag/mbOPO11UySU/s400/H%20bak%201.jpg


I'm waiting on a shipment of kid / cargo covers... that will make the bike far more useful in foul weather. I've had 100 pounds of groceries, dog food, cat food, etc. in the front box.

[niknak]

Another option are the ANT bikes by Mike Flanigan: http://www.antbikemike.com/flom.html

[donnamb]

We have a Bakfiets, and love it...

I'm waiting on a shipment of kid / cargo covers... that will make the bike far more useful in foul weather. I've had 100 pounds of groceries, dog food, cat food, etc. in the front box.
Mike, did you know there's someone in Portland who is custom sewing bench cushions for Bakfietsen?

[bmike]

Mike, did you know there's someone in Portland who is custom sewing bench cushions for Bakfietsen?

No... that's cool. I'll look into that when our little one arrives early next year!

[Elkhound]

This isn't a task for a small shop, but it would be really great to have a tandem pedicab that combines power like a tandem. Then me and my wife could haul bus loads of people at a time on the weekends.

Try Lightfoot Cycles or Rhodescars.

[bmike]

This isn't a task for a small shop, but it would be really great to have a tandem pedicab that combines power like a tandem. Then me and my wife could haul bus loads of people at a time on the weekends.

You need a conference bike (http://www.conferencebike.com/index.html).

[neoslan]

http://bayareabikes.com/merchant/1173/images/large/cargotrike.jpg

Now thats the one you gta get

[lancekagar]

Here's a shot of a Long Haul in progress at the shop I work at. The American Bakfiets, or "box bike", without the box.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa243/pedalersexpress/3-1.jpg

[donnamb]

Here's a shot of a Long Haul in progress at the shop I work at. The American Bakfiets, or "box bike", without the box.
I saw 3 of these today delivering packages around downtown Portland. :)

[lancekagar]

I saw 3 of these today delivering packages around downtown Portland. :)

Hey, cool! If I'm not mistaken, we just shipped the newest one with aluminum tread-plate (flat-bed) to a rider in Portland. It'll be hard to miss!