Road Bike Racing - Stage 12 Results *spoiler*

17 H 21 - The Top 5 In Stage 12
Jan Ullrich has won his seventh stage in the Tour de France. The top five in stage 12 is:
1. ULLRICH (GER, TBI) 58'32"920
2. ARMSTRONG (USA, USP) at 01' 35"
3. VINOKOUROV (KAZ, TEL) at 02' 05"
4. ZUBELDIA (ESP, EUS) at 02' 39"
5. HAMILTON (USA, CSC) at 02' 42"

Ullrich wins stage by over a minute. LA still in yellow...finishing second to Ullrich.
Tyler H picks up a spot in the GC moving from 5th to 4th.

Ohhhh!
I so wanted Lance to lay the smack down! But I guess at least he is still in the jersey.
:p

Amazing performance by Ullrich!!
:D

Lance loses 1' 35"

Some people appear to be correct. Lance is not himself.

What this means for the rest of the tour: Postal can not count on Lance to not lose time to JU in the final time trial. For that reason they HAVE to put some time on JU in the mountains. If they don't, Lance will lose the tour.

Ullrick is looking very strong, and is now very well placed. He already had a fire coming into the race; now he's got an inferno. We get mountains tomorrow; don't expect Ullrich to wait for the next TT to close the remaining gap. I think the riders will be bleeding from their eyeballs before this race is over. Free for all in the Pyrennees!!:eek:

I think you're right don......gonna be a fist fight all the way to the end.

yes indeed he is looking strong and I suspect we'll see another Lance /Jan battle in the mountains tomorrow and sunday. I'm not gong anywhere. Eurosport GB is showing 3hours on sat and 3 on sunday and highlights in teh evenng. It's couch potatoe weekend for me.
what to watch, Cycling British GP ,Golf, oh so many choices so little time

One thing to remember is that as bad a day as Lance had on L'Alp Duez, Ullrich was even worse. I still don't know that Jan can climb with Lance.

I'm thinking that about 12 riders will actually finish the
race, everyone else will be eliminated by not being able
to make the time limit. The pace that the big guns are gonna
set will be brutal.
I have these nightmare visions of Fignon losing by 8 seconds.

as for stage 12, I'm exhausted, and all I did was listen to it
on OLN.

Marty

Originally posted by lotek
as for stage 12, I'm exhausted, and all I did was listen to it
on OLN.

Marty

:roflmao: :lol: :roflmao:
I feel the exact same way!

The interesting part is that Lance focused on targeting the Tour so what is the problem? Bad timing for his peak?

I don't know but it looks like somebody make a perilous mistake about their preparedness to dominate another tour. I hope he pulls it off but with Vino and Jan on his heels it may be a hat trick.

Don't forget that Jan may also be coming into better and better form while Lance seems to be marking time. Jan could very well blossum in the Pyrenees and blast everybody.

Atleast we have a very exhilarating race this year and not just a tally of how many minutes Armstrong has over his closest rivals. I like watching a good fight. I just hope Lance will have it in him to make the fight good.

I believe that this is just as much a result of the other riders getting faster as Lance being off a little. This is an incredibly fast tour and very fast TT's...Ullrich is just growing up...we forget how young he is

I remember hearing that Lance had a slight stomach problem right before the tour started. That may be the problem.

It's a hell of a race though.

Ullrich beat the pants off everyone but Lance today, and still gave Lance a solid beating. The good news for Lance is that several of the climbers are way back in the standings now, like Mayo, so Lance only has to worry about attacks from Vinokourov and Ullrich. That simplifies his problems. Imagine if it were still bunched tightly and Mayo attacked hard tomorrow. If Lance were to follow, then he could wear himself out and get caught on the descent, but he couldn't afford to let Mayo get away. Now Lance has to try to keep a brisk pace, which might drop Ullrich, and not let Vino break away. There are fewer traps to catch him, so even though Ullrich is closer, the tactics have become simpler. Basically Lance needs to make sure he has at least a three minute advantage over Ullrich going into the last time trial, and not to let anyone else in the top few break away. It isn't a gimme, but it is very doable.

Originally posted by Laggard
One thing to remember is that as bad a day as Lance had on L'Alp Duez, Ullrich was even worse. I still don't know that Jan can climb with Lance.

I think this really is a key. Jan has never had the "dance" in the mountains that LA has, but Jan can climb. AND, Jan has always followed the "old ways" of riding oneself into shape in the tour, while Lance comes at his peak. If we can extrapolate anything from this, it is that Jan may be neck and neck with LA now, possibly even on his way up while Lance may be redlined.

The next few days will tell us alot about LA's drive, motivation, and fitness. Vino will be attacking constantly. Hamilton will be there to exploit any mistakes. The Spaniards will be riding on pogo sticks in the mountains. All Ullrich has to do is sit back and force LA do defend his jersey, and then strike at the first sign of weakness.

Originally posted by Tilly1
:roflmao: :lol: :roflmao:
I feel the exact same way!

LOL....ME TOO Lotek!!!


The New Overall Places...
The top five riders in the overall classification after the 12th stage are:
1. Lance Armstrong (USP)
2. Jan Ullrich (TBI) at 34"
3. Alexandre Vinokourov (TEL) at 51"
4. Tyler Hamilton (CSC) at 2'59"
5. Haimar Zubeldia (EUS) at 4'29"

Ok, I have two theories. One is more realistic, the second being a bit to hopeful.

1 - Lance is in trouble. This is one stage where Lance would have wanted to put time into his rivals, but not only did Ullrich blow him away, LA didn't put much time into Vino either. LA is going to put time into Ullrich in the mountains, JU just didn't look that strong on the previous climbs. The problem is that the final ITT is another 49km, so LA is going to have to put another 2+ minutes into JU with enough energy left over to place high in the ITT. So in a realistic sense with 4 more grueling mountain stages LA is going to have to put even more time into JU because he knows JU is on fire and is setting the TT course on fire. And then on top of that he has to worry about Vino as well who has been climbing VERY well and just showed us that he can still place well in the TT. And with the pace that USPS has been setting, they aren't going to have a lot of power left to help LA in the mountains.

2 - Since I am never suprised by tactics coming out of USPS I could also see LA "taking it easy" in the TT to help out for tomorrow and the coming mountain stages. He blazed out of the gate and was dead even with JU at the first time check, then he slowed down a bit. LA knows that he can take time out of JU in the mountains, and we just never know. Tomorrow and Sunday we could see LA drop the hammer and leave everybody behind as they have all been giving 110% attacking him constantly, while LA has been riding their wheels and that has to be taking it's effect on everybody. If this is the case, watch for the rest of the GC contenders to wilt away very fast, as they know they are giving everything and then some, and watch LA ride away from them. This would let LA basically cruise into Paris.

Honestly though I'm leaning more towards the first theory, I think LA still has the best chance of winning, but he's going to have to fight tooth and nail all the way to Paris to do it. The 2nd theory does fit in with the USPS basic strategy, but it's a little to hopeful.

Andrew

Good analysis, Ajay.

So, do we agree that Lance has to put time on JU in the mountains?

Good insight Andrew, I lean to theory number 2!

Originally posted by Ajay213
...Since I am never suprised by tactics coming out of USPS I could also see LA "taking it easy" in the TT to help out for tomorrow and the coming mountain stages. He blazed out of the gate and was dead even with JU at the first time check, then he slowed down a bit. LA knows that he can take time out of JU in the mountains..., Andrew

This is an interesting thought and has some validity, but it is extremely risky. Lance has huge respect for Jan, and I would be surprised if he would underestimate him, which is what this strategy does. Still, I would not put this past Johan and Lance to come up with a strategy like this. It makes some sense.

Originally posted by Ajay213
Ok, I have two theories. One is more realistic, the second being a bit to hopeful.

1 - Lance is in trouble. This is one stage where Lance would have wanted to put time into his rivals, but not only did Ullrich blow him away, LA didn't put much time into Vino either. LA is going to put time into Ullrich in the mountains, JU just didn't look that strong on the previous climbs. The problem is that the final ITT is another 49km, so LA is going to have to put another 2+ minutes into JU with enough energy left over to place high in the ITT. So in a realistic sense with 4 more grueling mountain stages LA is going to have to put even more time into JU because he knows JU is on fire and is setting the TT course on fire. And then on top of that he has to worry about Vino as well who has been climbing VERY well and just showed us that he can still place well in the TT. And with the pace that USPS has been setting, they aren't going to have a lot of power left to help LA in the mountains.

2 - Since I am never suprised by tactics coming out of USPS I could also see LA "taking it easy" in the TT to help out for tomorrow and the coming mountain stages. He blazed out of the gate and was dead even with JU at the first time check, then he slowed down a bit. LA knows that he can take time out of JU in the mountains, and we just never know. Tomorrow and Sunday we could see LA drop the hammer and leave everybody behind as they have all been giving 110% attacking him constantly, while LA has been riding their wheels and that has to be taking it's effect on everybody. If this is the case, watch for the rest of the GC contenders to wilt away very fast, as they know they are giving everything and then some, and watch LA ride away from them. This would let LA basically cruise into Paris.

Honestly though I'm leaning more towards the first theory, I think LA still has the best chance of winning, but he's going to have to fight tooth and nail all the way to Paris to do it. The 2nd theory does fit in with the USPS basic strategy, but it's a little to hopeful.

Andrew I don't think your theory 2 makes much sense, although it isn't out of the queestion. If Lance could have matched Ullrich stroke for stroke, then Lance would be clear of all rivals by more than 2 minutes, and would have his choice of a smorgasbord of tactics. I don't think he had the gas to stay with Ullrich.

That said, we don't know how much of his reserve Ullrich dipped into. He might be a very tired man right now. There is a lot of bluff and counterbluff going on.

Tomorrow's stage is really strange, a huge climb and a huge descent, on which a breakaway climber might get caught, and then another hard climb. The obvious tactic is to let anyone but the next three get away, and hope that if their result is too good on the climb that they can be caught on the descent. If any of the next three attack, then Lance has to answer, but the good news might be that if Lance and a rival breakawy, then the remaining rivals might get dropped. If Lance, Heras, and one rival all crest the first big climb together, then all the remaining rivals will be in the hole.

Ajay-

Total agreement. I was just saying the same thing to someone else!

We'll know by Saturday which theory is correct, eh?

Koffee

So, do we agree that Lance has to put time on JU in the mountains?

Has to, has to, has to, has to! 30-some seconds is just not a comfortable margin by any means, and certainly not when the guy that is that close to you is one of the greatest time trialers around.

I haven't seen the video of it, so I can't comment on how good these guys looked, so it's hard to say who was doing what. If Armstrong looked like he was giving everything, by seeing his form fall off towards the end, pain in his face, standing up to sprint (not always a good tell), then he's in trouble. I mention that because when they were climing up Alpe D'huez LA looked a lot better than Beloki, more relaxed, more refreshed, his interview a few minutes after the stage ended and he didn't look like somebody who just climbed that mountain.

And then there is something that I didn't mention above, and that is the psych side of it all. If LA doesn't crush these guys in the mountains that is going to give JU and Vino a HUGE mental boost, the kind of boost that will allow both of them to go harder and faster than even they thought they could go. Never underestimate that power and how it effects athlete's.

Andrew

Originally posted by Laggard
Good analysis, Ajay.

So, do we agree that Lance has to put time on JU in the mountains?

I don't think that either Lance or Jan can count on the final TT to win the race. Both of them are capable of exploding a huge effort. I think that is why we are going to see some high octane racing in the Pyrennees. Vino may start to ride just for a podium spot to, instead of for the win, which may cause him to be more cautious and less aggressive.

Interestingly, Zabel came out in the press b4 the TDF, and said that since Jan used to ride for Telekom, it was not beyond possible for Telekom to support Jan in some way in the TDF. I don't think that would happen as well placed as Vino is though. I hope he doesn't ride to settle for a step on the podium, although That will "make" him financially.

My opinion is simply that Lance is a little weaker this year than he was in the past. That can happen. Whether it's some virus he had last week, whether it's that he's distracted, or whether it's age (people who recover from serious illnesses can sometimes be physiologically older than thair calendar age), he appears to have lost a fraction of a step. That's inspiring other riders to come after him.

If he wins, it will be that much sweeter, and that much more monumental an accomplishment.

If he doesn't win, he will be graceful and generous in defeat, and will move on to accomplish more great things in his life. He's amply demonstrated that he is maturing into an individual who will transcend the sport.

Either way, I believe we're seeing Armstrong's last TdF. And it will be unforgettable.

RichC

For what its worth Jan has always been a better
time trialer than Lance. Look at the Olympics where
he placed Gold to Lance's Bronze (Eki silver).
Jan hasn't changed his riding style, he is still grinding
away on big gears on the climbs and there is always
the chance that he will not be able to respond
if Lance and the Posties attack hard in the Pyrenees.
That is the tactic I expect to see, USPS keeping the
tempo so high that very few will be able to keep
pace.
As always look for constant attacks from Euskatel,
Ibanesto and Once, I think that Lance can afford to
let some of these guys in since he did gain time on
all of them in the TT.
Vini is the real spoiler here, I did not expect him to
time trial as well as he did today, where did that come
from?
This is gonna be a dog fight right up to the final ride up
the Champs Elysees.
Marty

Folks...let's all be somewhat realistic here. Ullrich just rode the TT of his life and for Lance to lose 1'30" is not that bad of a finish.

Did Lance want to win this one, sure he did. I am sure he wanted to take another 30" out of Ullrich, but we all know that Jan is a superb TT rider.

Now the race has truly begun. The next two mountain stages will give a pretty good idea of what the final placings will be.

I still don't think that Jan can handle the pace of Lance and Co. But at this point all bets are off!

Any way you look at it, Lance will have to give everything he has left to win this one.

Still pulling for Lance to do something decisive in the next few days!

Vino rode well, but remember that Lance and Beloki were running him down and most likely would have caught him, absent Beloki's crash, so Vino would have lost both the 42 second winning margin and the 20 second bonus on stage 9. He is in a good position, but lost time today when it counted, and I don't think he is a good as Lance in the mountains. Lance has said all along that Ullrich was the man he had to beat, and nothing has changed there.

Originally posted by lotek
Jan has always been a better
time trialer than Lance. Look at the Olympics where
he placed Gold to Lance's Bronze (Eki silver).

Marty

2000 Olympic ITT results:

1. V. Ekimov

2. J. Ullrich

3. L. Armstrong

:)

Here's the profile for the next 4 days, all in the mountains.

Graciously grabbed from http://www.coachcarl.com
Toulouse (Cite de l'Espace) - Plateau de Bonascre Mountain Stage (Stage 13)

This stage will follow three mountain stages, a day in the flats, a day of rest, a day in the flats, and the first time trial. Even without all of this, I rate this as the second most significant mountain stage in this Tour. It is tied as the third longest mountain stage at 197.5 km and has a mountain top finish. It only has two significant climbs but they are both at the end of the stage with the first one being fifth in distance at 15.5 km and fifth in grade at 7.8%. The second of these climbs is 15th in distance at 9.1 km and 10th in grade at 7.2%. I consider these two climbs to be two of the most important climbs in the Tour and they are back-to-back at the end of the stage with the finish at the top of the second climb. This will be a very important stage, especially with very tired legs but it is followed by THREE more mountain stages and there will still be seven stages to ride after this stage. Did I tell you this is going to be a tough Tour? It keeps getting better because this stage precedes the third and fourth most significant mountain stages.


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Saint-Girons - Loudenvielle Mountain Stage (Stage 14)

I rate this stage as the fourth most significant mountain stage. It is long at 191.5 km, has six significant climbs of which two are 13 kms or longer, one is the third steepest at 8.2% and another one is tied for seventh steepest at 7.4%, and ALL six climbs are between 6.6% and 8.2%. Ouch!!! This stage is interesting in that it does not have a mountain top finish but it does have an elevated finish meaning it is semi-mountain top.

With everything that has preceded this stage and it preceding the third most significant mountain stage, it makes this stage very important. You can see why I say that this Tour was designed to break legs and possibly break them twice. This has to be the toughest Tour in at least 30 years. You must ride this Tour right or you will lose it. I believe that this is the first stage to begin watching for the race leader to crack, especially if he took the lead at L'Alpe d'Huez. This Tour will be brutal and is perfect for the 100th Anniversary Tour. They will sweat blood in this Tour.


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Bagneres-de-Bigorre - Luz Ardiden Mountain Stage (Stage 15)

They will be at the sixth mountain stage, it will be the third most significant mountain stage with a mountain top finish at the top of two of the most significant climbs in the Tour, and follows the second and fourth most significant mountain stages in the Tour. Fortunately, it is the shortest mountain stage at 159.5 km and only has two significant climbs. The next-to-last climb is 12th in length at 12.3 km and 21st in grade at 6.4% with the last climb being FOUTH in length at 17.1 km and tied for SEVENTH in grade at 7.4%. Watch for the Tour leader to break on these two climbs. It is very probable that he will, if he took the lead on L'Alpe d'Huez. The lead could easily change hands in this stage.

To add insult to injury, there is still one more brutal mountain stage left which can break legs and change the lead. I believe it was added and designed to do this. Fortunately, these last two mountain stages are separated by a day of rest which may or may not help. It is possible that the most significant day in this Tour may be a day of rest.


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Pau - Bayonne Mountain Stage (Stage 16)

I rate this as the fifth most significant mountain stage. It is tied as the third longest mountain stage, has four significant climbs of which the last two climbs are the two steepest at 10.5% and 9.2%, the third climb is the sixth steepest at 7.5% and is tied as eighth longest at 14.1 km, and the last two climbs are piggy backed for a total of 11.2 kms of climbing with only a tiny break in the climbing. Fortunately, the stage does not have a mountain top finish and the significant climbs are in the middle of the stage. But, by this point, it may not matter much.

With all things considered, this stage will be brutal and the lead could change, if the right legs break. They should have signs on the roads for the last three mountain stages saying, "Watch For Breaking Legs!" But the hell may not be over yet.

Following this stage, will be two flat road stages, the last individual time trial, and the last flat stage finishing in Paris. It is very possible that all of this will cause legs to break in the last time trial as they almost did for Lance when his legs broke years ago. Remember how he didn't dominate that last time trial? He could lose time on this one.

Sunday and Monday and to some extent tomorrow look to be the key days, the final day will be grueling in it's own way (considering the 3 days before it). When he's talking about the leader taking the yellow on the Alpe D'Huez he was more talking about a rider dominating the climb (like Mayo did), and not in the way that LA did. But the commentary on the website doesn't sound good, strategy wise, for USPS.

Andrew

Just wanted to say that I really love this sport and this tour.

It's going to be a hell of a weekend.

Phenomenal job by JU. And Vino! Who knew? I hope he didn't burn too many matches today.


Originally posted by Ajay213
Ok, I have two theories.
I'm with theory 2. So far, LA has only done what he needed to... riding defensively. He's shown a moment or two of prodigious riding (relatively speaking). Why change now? Knowing JU's splits, he rode only as fast as he needed to, perhaps conserved some strength, and in doing has treated us to a few more days of excellent suspense.

I hope Jan has enough left to perform in the mountains. He looks to be on form.

Hoping for a true battle of the titans in the Pyrenees.

Originally posted by Ajay213
Here's the profile for the next 4 days, all in the mountains.

Graciously grabbed from http://www.coachcarl.com
[ I wonder if he knows more about cycling than he does about ski coaching. He has some bizarre story about a women's GS contender on the website, and some weird advice. He would apply some kind of cookie cutter approach to fear, which is a much bigger factor in Alpine skiing than in cycling (although descending takes some serious nerve).

Ladies and Gentlemen,

We have a race ! I'm pulling for Lance... but Ullrich kicked some butt today... Vino says he will attack continously in the mountain stages.. there is not much of gap in the top 3... not a comfortable one anyways... Lance has always said that the only other rider he fears is Ullrich... so unless Ullrich dug too deep today jsut to prove something, it's gonna be some serious racing action the next few days... damn this is exciting !! Sure beats a blow out !!

Jeff

Originally posted by SipperPhoto
Ladies and Gentlemen,
so unless Ullrich dug too deep today just to prove something

I never thought of that. He may have known that he couldn't hang in the mountains and thus decided to just destroy himself in the TT. One final bit of glory.

Originally posted by Laggard
I never thought of that. He may have known that he couldn't hang in the mountains and thus decided to just destroy himself in the TT. One final bit of glory.

Es possible'.

uhuh hu huhu I jsut heard Bob Sherwin say "French Cock" ok... sorry.. had a Beavis and Butthead moment.... back to racing ;-)

Jeff

Yeah I agree, and who say's that the tour's boring??? this is going to be super exciting!!


TimB going back to your post back on the first page of this whole thing, I ask one thing in jest, you said that it's a couch potato weekend for you...I ask awww come on Tim, you've got to find some hour to ride that pimpy bike right??:D


Benjamin

Originally posted by Laggard
I never thought of that. He may have known that he couldn't hang in the mountains and thus decided to just destroy himself in the TT. One final bit of glory.
I wonder... Jan was pedalling smooth as silk at the end, and never looked in distress. In contrast, Armstrong's shoulders were rolling quite a bit as he came up to the line. He was working pretty hard. If Jan is cooked for tomorrow, then so is Armstrong. This will be interesting, and remember: there's still another TT, and Jan has shown that he's the class of the field. If doesn't lose time in the mountains and he performs as well in the next TT, he could conceivably win...

I think that there are a lot of interesting ideas circulating as to how things are going to shape up. One thing I know for certain is that this is without a doubt the most nail biting tour that I have ever watched. It's really interesting to note that Armstrong and Jan both head into these mountain stages with their full teams. That alone could spell the doom for everyone else who is trying to chase. From watching the body language of the two riders in the time trial, I would have to say that Jan really laid it all on the line, the last 5 kilometers or more he had his mouth wide open, gaping trying to pull in as much oxygen as possible, while Lance still had his normal poker face, yes he was grimacing, but not gasping. But he has been known to effectively hide when he's hurting. Lance has seemed to have a lot of "excuses" this year, (the brake rub, stomach problems, today he said he wasn't hydrated enough) which seems uncharacteristic and makes me wonder if he isn't pacing himself for something huge in the pyranees and throwing out some rhetoric to confuse his opponents. Then again it could be a sign that he really is losing a step. Either way, I believe we will see something happen of mythic proportions in the pyranees. WE have seen some amazing performances in this tour, Jan's TT, Hamilton still hanging tough and showing that he is going to be a force to be reckoned with in the near future, Vini's unexpected contention. This is going to be an historic tour whatever the outcome, and it excites me to be able to say I watched it.

Go Lance!!!

Originally posted by FOG
I wonder if he knows more about cycling than he does about ski coaching.

He rated a stage with two cat 1 climbs to finish to be more significant than a stage with two hors cat climbs to finish. Confusing.

"When the elephants play, the grass gets trampled."

I'm afraid that's going to be true for a lot of riders the next three days.

great quote Laggard, and probably very telling of the next few days.

i just can't wait to see if big jan attacks in the mountains. what with the team support, he'll have to attack on his own most likely. all of a sudden, heras, chechu and beltran become incredibly important--they've got to shed jan's teammates quickly on the climbs, leave him out there alone. i'm for lance, but i'm really excited for jan too. i'm glad to see a race on our hands. i'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop: will lance attack like mad in the mountains, having loafed along so far? will jan have used up too much gas today and crack in the mountains? is lance simply weaker this year? should be fun to watch. and should make for INCREDIBLY low productivity at work.

WTG Jan! I'm always rooting for him, but I honestly didn't think he'd win this stage, or beat lance by that much. Holy S***! This was the most exciting TT i've seen since, well ever. It was obvious that Jan was doing very well, considering he hasn't ridden a grand tour in 2 years, except for the Tour de Suisse, which isn't one of THE grand tours.

As for LA. I keep thinking, ahhh..... he's faking it like in 2001, pretending to be sick, but that seems less likely. Why pull the gimp act in the yellow jersey? ANd you can't pull that gimp act in a TT. He really was killing himself to win that stage.

I still think LA will probably win, but it's obviously not going to be the cakewalk it was last year. Remember in 2001, there were 5 minutes between him and Ullrich by the end of the race, andhe'd already won 2 stages by this time. This year, there were only about 2 minutes between him and Jan when jan was in 6th place, which also shows you how close it has been so far. Not an easy race for lance. If he could have put himself far ahead by now, he'd have done it, but he could still have that reserve and he's being cagey.

Don't look for him OR Jan to be looking to win tomorrow's mountain stage. They'll be fried from the time trial. It'll be Virenque, mayo or one of the spanish climbers. Virenque could care less about the time trial, he wants that KOM jersey.

Go jan!!!! I can't wait for this wekend.

I think Mayo still has the legs and motivation, in front of 250,000 Basques, to decide this Tour. Not sure he can gain enough time to hold off the time triallists and take the jersey to Paris himself- but his attacks over the next few days will definitely end the aspirations of at least one podium hopeful.......

Don d.

Yup you're right I was thinking of Jan getting gold but
that was in Road Race.


Marty

Keep in mind- Lance is in a better position this year by stage 12 than the last two years' stage 12. He was always behind in those other stages. So he seems to be doing pretty good- he's ahead of schedule.

Still, the mountains will tell the story... we can speculate all we want, but the mountains will determine who ends up winning the Tour, I think.

You could see the difference in the pedalling styles. Jan looked smooth, Lance was moving his body a lot.

Also, Lance said he was suffering from dehydration, in that he said this is the first TT that he has ever felt thirsty in. With temps near 100 F that could certainly hamper one's performance. I think Lance will make a move in the pyrennees since he has yet to take a stage win. The TT was a wake up call and he knows what he's up against and if anyone is going to beat the odds it's Lance. And how bout that Mr. Hamilton? Moving into 4th , TT'ing with 2 fractures in your collarbone...thats a story for ya. This is defidently what you would call epic. I beleive Vino will falter near the end. The last TT may do it in for him. Then Hamilton would move into 3rd and get a spot on the podium! Lance, Jan, Tyler. That's the way it should be. If LA isn't up by several mintues by the last TT it will defidently be a close one, but I doub USPS would allow that.