Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Track shoes

Anybody here rides real track shoes with a cleat? As I'm training hard on my keirin bike I think the next step would be keirin shoes, so I can pedal more efficiently. I won't go clipless though, I'm in Japan, and I wanna train and race like the keirin guys do. Besides, in Japan track racing is pretty much only keirin. It's just stupid to stick clipless pedals on a keirin bike.

The keirin shoes cost a lot, just because they're rare. I have Nike Ventoux Plus road shoes though. Here's the sole:
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l283/TadashiEX/nike.png

Can I buy track cleats like these ones (http://www.takizawa-web.com/shop-shoes07/cleat.html) and put them on my shoes? I use MKS Royal Nuevo Pedals with MKS steel toe clips.

But the thing is I'm gonna train on the road as well (with a front brake, put via clamps). I think it will be 50/50 road and velodrome. What do you think, is that dangerous to ride track shoes on the road? I think I'm just gonna loosen straps a bit while on the road.

it looks like some of those cleats you linked to are spd (two bolt) and some are look (three bolt) compatible, if this is the case any of them will work with the shoes pictured

I have to admit that there is a great deal in your post that I do not exactly get, but the cleats that you link should be easily mountable on a standard road shoe by the look of them.

Yeah, but will the form of the shoe be ok for toe clips? Here's how the shoe looks.
http://activesportskit.co.uk/images/Gnike_ventouxplusM_blackchro07.jpg

you do realize that keirin shoes and cleats are a type of clipless, right?

I can't see a reason they would not slip into a toe clip just fine. I know this is somewhat unsolicited advice, but I would consider using a clipless pedal for serious training on the road. They give that secure "locked in" feel with a safer disengagement in my experience. Others will no doubt have a different opinion.

I have to admit that there is a great deal in your post that I do not exactly get
Like what? How the thing does work?

The cleat clips into the cage of the pedal, then you tighten the strap. It's impossible to get out if you don't reach to the strap. It creates the same efficiency as riding clipless. That's how track riders do it.

I think it may be tricky to use road shoes for this. Here's how it looks.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l283/TadashiEX/IMGP1676.jpg

I believe he was wondering why you would want to use a setup that is "impossible to get out of if you don't reach the strap" on the road, where getting out of your pedals easily is useful from time to time.

I believe he was wondering why you would want to use a setup that is "impossible to get out of if you don't reach the strap" on the road, where getting out of your pedals easily is useful from time to time.

On the button.

Well, I'm consulting about my training with a guy who was riding a track bicycle since his childhood. He rode it on the road as well. He suggested that I should use shoes with a hard sole and track cleats if I want to get serious about track racing.

Anyway, at that time even roadies used the same setup. They just loosened straps a bit for the road.

. It's just stupid to stick clipless pedals on a keirin bike.

...

But the thing is I'm gonna train...with a front brake, put via clamps.

..

So, what? It's easily detachable (while on a velodrome just unscrew 3 bolts) and saves my 80$ tires from skidding. And I'd like to see you skidding with a 90" gear.

Are you training to race keirin?

Are you training to race keirin?
For now I just want to get serious about track cycling. To stay in shape I need to train every day, that's why there's a brake, I won't have access to the track everyday, so I will train on the road. The bike is not for fashion, but for training, that's why there's 90'' gear and the brake to stop it. And I want to train classic style, keirin is just a representative of it. I'm Russian, and in Soviet Union people raced just the same (http://www.bikecult.com/works/archive/03bicycles/takhionVVV.html) steel track bikes, absolutely identical.

how about you ride with those shoes on the track...then on the road just some sneakers lie everyone else with clips and straps do.

maybe a pair of these?
I know its Us...but just for comparison..these are $20 USD new.

http://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photos/250/YS-LOMB-NCL-ANGLE.jpg

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=600084&subcategory=60001042&brand=&sku=18599&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Road%20Shoes

Yeah, I think I'll use track cleats only on the track. I may try riding them on the road with loosen straps though.

The brake makes good sense to me, as they do in most situations. I understand the desire for retro training (I have been known to toss the ol' medicine ball between rounds of boxing a kangaroo), but since you are not subject to any of the silly NJS restrictions I would choose the pedal system that works best for the conditions you are riding in. On the road, I would want clipless. Pedals are quick to swap in you want to stay traditional on the track. Best of luck with your training.

I rode and raced for years with clips and straps and so I can't see the concern about using them on the street. Obviously you are not going to have double straps cinched down while you are doing flying 200's through Shinjuku Ku, ride them loose when you need to and tight when you are in safe area doing repeats.

The shoes you posted are not comfortable or easy to insert, you really need a smooth topped shoe like TedC posted, they lace underneath and have a cover with velcro that prevents the clips and straps from hanging up when you are trying to put in your shoe after stopping for a Teryaki burger at MOS burger....

vjp

I rode and raced for years with clips and straps and so I can't see the concern about using them on the street. Obviously you are not going to have double straps cinched down while you are doing flying 200's through Shinjuku Ku, ride them loose when you need to and tight when you are in safe area doing repeats.

The shoes you posted are not comfortable or easy to insert, you really need a smooth topped shoe like TedC posted, they lace underneath and have a cover with velcro that prevents the clips and straps from hanging up when you are trying to put in your shoe after stopping for a Teryaki burger at MOS burger....

vjp

Thanks for the reply. Any idea where to get not very expensive track shoes in Tokyo? Keirin ones cost 240$!

my duegi track shoes with regular slotted cleats.

works for me.

http://www.fyxomatosis.com/images/news/skingrowsback.jpg (http://www.fyxomatosis.com)

Wait, how is this better than clipless?

in track racing i think the idea is that you dont want to ever accidentally unclip.

in normal road riding i think it makes all the ladies want you to impregnate them

lol!

http://mt.happytreefriends.com/writersblog/images/boxing-kangaroo.jpg

I seem to recall reading that most Keirin riders just rode regular SIDIs with their clips-and-straps setup.

I want these:
http://www.rocket7.com/images/Shoe-Track.jpg
http://www.rocket7.com/images/Shoe-Track-Bottom.jpg

I'm old enough to have started cycling when ALL road riders used clips and straps. And I'd ride to the velodrome with my track shoes on with clips and straps. You get very good at undoing them quickly when you need to.

It looks like you might have a problem with the toeclip digging into the top of your shoe with your current clip/shoe combination. Although you might be able to bend the clip a tiny bit.

Keep in mind, no gaijin has ever raced keirin in Japan outside of the invitation series.

Keep in mind, no gaijin has ever raced keirin in Japan outside of the invitation series.

Yes, and to be invited, you have to have one a national championship, right? Think Theo Bos and Josiah Ng.

Did you get one of these yet?

http://ehouse.air-nifty.com/ehouse/keirin.JPG

Yes, and to be invited, you have to have one a national championship, right? Think Theo Bos and Josiah Ng.

But I wonder if you can get into the lowest ranked competition (which I presume is one star?) by meeting the time requirements - which are a 1.10 kilometer and a 12 second 200.

I used to train with a lowly ranked keirin rider. He was a uninversity student but he was trained by Koichi Nakano. He could do 11.4 for 200m. He said he had to race at 9am because that's the only time the track was open to his low level of riders. But I've lost touch with him - I'd like to know whether he ever went to keirin school.

I'm old enough to have started cycling when ALL road riders used clips and straps. And I'd ride to the velodrome with my track shoes on with clips and straps. You get very good at undoing them quickly when you need to.


Im half as old and agree completely. Doubles straps, slotted cleats, and wooden soles are the best!

But I wonder if you can get into the lowest ranked competition (which I presume is one star?) by meeting the time requirements - which are a 1.10 kilometer and a 12 second 200.

Woah I didn't realize it was that slow. I'd only read about the 10.8 for the top level in the other thread which I thought also suggested there had been some foreign keirin racers outside of the invatational series. With requirements that low is there a large number of amateur keirin racers?

AS far as tadashi's question goes:

Slotted cleats will work fine but outside of keirin hardly anyone uses them anymore even on the track. They are really a huge hassle especially if you are just getting into the game now. On the road(when we did use them) we didn't keep them loose either and neither should you. If you are planning to do that just buy some clipless. It's really not worth the hassle to look like a keirin racer and I would be suprised if even they used them outside of training.

Regarding the rest of your plan. If you are serious and don't just want to get into shape you need to decide what you are training for. Do you want to race keirin? Do you want to be a better all around cyclist? Maybe road racing is more your thing? If you are supposed to be a keirin rider that 12s/1:10 should be easily acheivable by this time next year but you need to start working for that and that means training like a sprinter.

If you are pretty sure you're never going to or don't want to race keirin is there other amateur track racing in japan? Why not give road racing or some other discipline a try too. Sure you don't get to ride a fancy track bike but other disciplines can be nearly as fun.


Finally unless you are pretty strong now 90" is probably too steep for most workouts. It's definitely too steep for endurance stuff and unless you have something to get you up to speed it's probably too steep for sprint stuff too. Really working out on the road is much much easier with a geared bike most of the time. Unless you have a freind with a scooter or something willing to sacrifice a lot of time the freedom of gears will let you get much much more out of most workouts.

Woah I didn't realize it was that slow. I'd only read about the 10.8 for the top level in the other thread which I thought also suggested there had been some foreign keirin racers outside of the invatational series. With requirements that low is there a large number of amateur keirin racers?

AS far as tadashi's question goes:

Slotted cleats will work fine but outside of keirin hardly anyone uses them anymore even on the track. They are really a huge hassle especially if you are just getting into the game now. On the road(when we did use them) we didn't keep them loose either and neither should you. If you are planning to do that just buy some clipless. It's really not worth the hassle to look like a keirin racer and I would be suprised if even they used them outside of training.

Regarding the rest of your plan. If you are serious and don't just want to get into shape you need to decide what you are training for. Do you want to race keirin? Do you want to be a better all around cyclist? Maybe road racing is more your thing? If you are supposed to be a keirin rider that 12s/1:10 should be easily acheivable by this time next year but you need to start working for that and that means training like a sprinter.

If you are pretty sure you're never going to or don't want to race keirin is there other amateur track racing in japan? Why not give road racing or some other discipline a try too. Sure you don't get to ride a fancy track bike but other disciplines can be nearly as fun.


Finally unless you are pretty strong now 90" is probably too steep for most workouts. It's definitely too steep for endurance stuff and unless you have something to get you up to speed it's probably too steep for sprint stuff too. Really working out on the road is much much easier with a geared bike most of the time. Unless you have a freind with a scooter or something willing to sacrifice a lot of time the freedom of gears will let you get much much more out of most workouts.

Thanks for the detailed answer.

I want to become an amateur sprinter. I really like the track discipline, especially sprint. Unlike road racing here you get lots of muscles and don't look like alien, you have strong legs, strong arms and you're fast as hell. Keirin would be sweet, but I wonder if it's possible for a gaijin.

90'' is mostly ok, my main problem is my weak arms though, not enough power to accelerate. I guess, I'll put a 16 cog on the other side of the wheel (I have 50/15 for now) and try them both. Have to train more with weightlifting.

Thanks for the detailed answer.

I want to become an amateur sprinter. I really like the track discipline, especially sprint. Unlike road racing here you get lots of muscles and don't look like alien, you have strong legs, strong arms and you're fast as hell. Keirin would be sweet, but I wonder if it's possible for a gaijin.

90'' is mostly ok, my main problem is my weak arms though, not enough power to accelerate. I guess, I'll put a 16 cog on the other side of the wheel (I have 50/15 for now) and try them both. Have to train more with weightlifting.

Unless your 200 is already near 12s you shouldn't be doing much work in a 90 by yourself. It's just too high and your cadence will be to low. Leg speed is just as important as strength to a sprinter and you are at a greater risk of hurting yourself.

If you're not the type of person that naturally carries a reasonable amount of muscle you are probly going to have trouble becoming a sprinter naturally. Likewise if you do well in medium length efforts compared to freinds of the same general fitness but they can outsprint you it's probably another bad sign. There is plenty of track racing left for those lucky enough not to be cursed with large amounts of bulky fast twitch muscle. The best thing to do if you're not sure is to start training without much specialization and see what happens when you race.

If you do decide you are a sprinter or are determined to become one against your bodies wishes short efforts with complete recovery are key. fixedgearfever is a cornucopia of information if you want to start training seriously.

Well, I'm consulting about my training with a guy who was riding a track bicycle since his childhood. He rode it on the road as well. He suggested that I should use shoes with a hard sole and track cleats if I want to get serious about track racing.

Anyway, at that time even roadies used the same setup. They just loosened straps a bit for the road.



Duegi wooden sole shoes. They are good to go but expensive now. I bought my for 35.00 and now cost 130 plus.

S/F,
CEYA!

Interestingly, I was poking around on Flickr and I found this picture of Josiah Ng's bike, and it looks like he's riding MKS Sylvans with a single strap - and no toe clips.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1322/868602484_628eee034f.jpg

So apparently it's "whatever works."

Interestingly, I was poking around on Flickr and I found this picture of Josiah Ng's bike, and it looks like he's riding MKS Sylvans with a single strap - and no toe clips.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1322/868602484_628eee034f.jpg

So apparently it's "whatever works."

Probably spent so much on that frame and wheelset that he could only Sylvans and one double strap which was chopped half for both pedals. ;)

those aren't sylvans, they are MKS Royal Nuevos. Sylvans are about $100 American less. The straps appear to be NJS Toshis...another $100 American. That bike is roughly $6000 American.

I rode on the diadoras for quite some time on the street you have to learn to walk on the cleat but it will work fine the champs cleats work with any shoe with a look style bolt patter you do have to screw a couple set screws directly into the sole of the shoe once you get it dialed in properly

Interestingly, I was poking around on Flickr and I found this picture of Josiah Ng's bike, and it looks like he's riding MKS Sylvans with a single strap - and no toe clips.

So apparently it's "whatever works."


Here's some I took of Josiah at the Sid Patterson. The Malaysian track team trains with us occasionally too.

http://www.fyxomatosis.com/images/news/josiah_ng.jpg

I also began riding when there was no such thing as clipless pedals. I am now using clips/straps but wear them loosely. I have tried to practice tightening them and loosening them in a safe area but it's hard to do on a fixed gear bike.

Wearing them loosely defeats the purpose if you're training.

I used to ride fixed with straps and a slotted cleat. You just have to remember to think ahead, predict likely spots where you might have to stop. At traffic lights, it's worth stopping early, if there is something you can lean against. Loosening the left strap becomes second nature.

Personally, I wouldn't go back to straps and cleats - the straps cut off your blood supply.

I don't mean to be a ******, but I don't think this pedal setup is a good idea for someone who is still learning to trackstand (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=313739). Really, for your own safety, don't ride beyond your ability.

Edit: "w@nker" isn't allowed?

A true Pimp would call these "track shoes"

http://www.leatherlollipop.com/prod_images_large/TIP-701-3chpg_tip_jar_shoes_hot_pink_lips1.jpg

I don't mean to be a ******, but I don't think this pedal setup is a good idea for someone who is still learning to trackstand (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=313739). Really, for your own safety, don't ride beyond your ability.



Thank you.

I don't mean to be a ******, but I don't think this pedal setup is a good idea for someone who is still learning to trackstand (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=313739). Really, for your own safety, don't ride beyond your ability.


Waitasecond.
you've only been riding for a month? and you're already training on a 90" gear?
you're gonna hurt yourself

Hey, hey, I've road biking for 6 months before this. I know what I'm doing. And besides, I'll gear down to 85'' very soon. This gear is perfect for sprinter newbies.

Hey, hey, I've road biking for 6 months before this. I know what I'm doing.

classic

I've been road biking ALMOST EVERYDAY, for atleast 40 km. Is that ****ing enough?

need slotted cleats on your scraper bike imoz (lawlz)

need slotted cleats on your scraper bike imoz (lawlz)

No, it needs dura ace clipless.

Anyway, can't find the shoes. ******** clerks at Y's don't even know what it is. I asked for cleats and shoes to use with toe clips, and they said that I can use any shoes with toe clips. Idiots. How can they have such idiots at such big shop. Their clerks always have no idea what they selling.

Any idea where to get shoes? Some online-shop, maybe? Can't find.

if you must do this remember most of what you find is not going to be specifically listed as being for use with a slotted cleat.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=600084&subcategory=60001042&brand=&sku=19938&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Road%20Shoes
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=600084&subcategory=60001042&brand=&sku=17991&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Road%20Shoes
ttp://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=600084&subcategory=60001042&brand=&sku=18253&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Road%20Shoes
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=600084&subcategory=60001042&brand=&sku=18265&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Road%20Shoes