Training & Nutrition - Eating like a horse & still loosing weight!

Question: I'm really in excellent shape, 5'6 and was 150lbs, trail run 10 miles 5 days a week and lift weights to keep toned another 3 or 4 days a week. Have abs and legs of steel! My problem is I recently started mountain biking and this added activity has me loosing weight like crazy. Over the past 2 months I've dropped down to 132 lbs and really hate it!! I'm burning muscle, no fat to burn; my body fat is 9%. I estimate I'm burning around 2000 to 2500 calories a day and consuming 2000 to 3000 calories a day maybe more, I should be maintaining not loosing. I only eat healthy foods, and lots of it. All I seem to be doing is eating, I'm eating so much I'm always feeling bloated and this is affecting my workouts.

Any suggestions on how or what to eat to gain weight yet not feel bloated?

Here's an example of a typical days workout & menu (I aim for at least 1 day a week off for recovery):

Snack: Yougrt

Workout: Morning 10 mile trail run, huge uphill sections. usually burn 1500+ calories.

Recovery (immediately following): 8oz water & whey, large bananna.

Breakfast: Huge bowl of Shredded Wheat w/lots of blueberries, almonds and walnuts mixed in with 2% milk. Glass of OJ. Bananna.

Snack: Fat free Yogurt w/fruit. Bananna, apple or other fruit. Granola bar.

Lunch: Love turkey hoagies & subs usually get 6" subs, Subway is great. Always on whole wheat. Large fruit cup.

Workout: 45 minute of weight training. Not sure of calorie burn.

Recovery (immediately following): 8oz water, whey & creatine.

Snack: Fruit of some sort. Large chocolate ice cream or milk shake - I love ice cream! Store bought smoothie.

Workout: Evening bike ride. Aim for 25 to 30 miles of really strenuous mountain biking. Try to maintain my heart rate in z3 & 4 for at least 2- 20 minute periods. Usually burn another 1500 to 2000 calories.

Recovery (immediately following): 8oz water & whey.

Supper: 3/4 pound lean steak, fish or chicken breast; baked potato; 1/2 lb asparagus or brocolli. Everything made on the charcoal barbecue grill. Large chocolate milk shake or ice cream.

Before bed snack: large bowl shredded wheat w/blueberries & 2% milk & bananna.

For hydration during the day I consume around 1/2 gallon Gatorade and 1/2 gallon water. I'm in the process of looking for a good blender so I can make my own smoothies. Within the next week I should be making them.

All this and I'm still loosing weight!!

Wish I had your problem. :(
Well, maybe try eating more as post recovery meal? Not sure how much calories are in water and whey, but can't be more then 200? Also are you consuming anything during your ride? Try adding some sport drinks, like GU2O to your water, and maybe chew on some energy bars like cliff bars.

I hate to say thats not much food at all. I know you think it is because you only weigh 132lbs but if you want to maintain your weight with that much activity you will have to eat a lot more.

Sorry to tell you this, but there is a reason for that food you are avoiding - it is so that you aren't walking around bloated all the time. You are eating like a sedentary secretary - not like a hunter. Get some high calorie foods in there and you will be fine.

It looks like to me you are low on fat - start piling on the nuts! There are some very healthy fats like nuts and olive oil - enjoy.

My cure is chocolate chip cookies when I start dropping weight too fast. :D

I realize this isn't enough food, the problem is I can't fit any more food inside me. I want to get my weight back up to 150lbs, and maintain it there. This loosing weight stuff is canabilizing my muscles. I'm trying to figure out what to eat that will give me more good calories. I refuse to eat junk food, but I know that will pack on the weight.

Never heard of GU2O before. I just Googled it and it sounds interesting. I'm going to try and find some and give it a try. This is the kind of info I'm looking for here on this forum. Much Appreciated!!

Would you believe that I weighed around 180 lbs of pure fat a couple years ago?? LOL Amazing what exercise and a good diet will do for you. I'm 52 yrs old and getting ready to retire.

Thanks for the weight loss food tips!

Let's define junk food - nuts and oils are not junk food. You need fats. Even pizza isn't junk food if done in moderation.

Look at it this way, normally people eat healthy foods because they need all the nutrition they can get because they need to eat as little as possible. You have another problem. You are getting plenty of nutrition but not enough pure energy. You have to boost the energy in your food. You aren't eating enough dense foods if you are too full before getting sufficient food.

Remember, you are not living like a cow now, more like a predator.

If you look at your BMI you are in a normal range. Yes, I know the arguments for and against using a BMI but it does give you a rough place to start. For what it is worth there are quite a few cyclists that are taller and weigh the same.

Of course, if you do not like your weight the above statements really have no bearing at all upon this thread.
The other posters in this thread have good advice about what to eat. Nuts are a favorite of mine. Pistachios! Yummy....
Like 99% of Americans I have the opposite issue and calorie count to make sure I do not eat too much. Maybe you should calorie count to make sure you eat enough. Something like fitday.com

Drink whole milk, and eat Ice cream. Yes, Ice cream. It is a nice, high calorie food that is nutritious when used with exercise.

I went from a bony 14 year old, 105 lbs, to a muscular 128 In 3 months. I gained more than 20 pounds in muscle (wow, we both have the same body fat percentage!) and it only took me a couple of months of lifting every day and riding my bike.

I ride about 20 miles a day, and I eat whatever I want. I would reccomend not working out so often. Maybe drop a day off and bike that day, you can't do both and expect that you will not be losing weight.

I went from a bony 14 year old, 105 lbs, to a muscular 128 In 3 months. I gained more than 20 pounds in muscle and it only took me a couple of months of lifting every day and riding my bike.


Cap'n, at 14, you are still growing. That's your whole body adding 20 lbs. It is nigh impossible to add 20 lbs of muscle in 3 months, even on a teenager's testosterone level.

Yeah, no way to add that much muscle. About 2-3 pounds per month max if you're doing a lot of weight-lifting in the gym. Maybe a little more with injections of anabolic steroids.

qwerty37 , if you want to stop canabolising your muscles, eat more carbs before and during your workouts so that you're not getting low on muscle-glycogen. Then have a 4:1 carb+protein energy drink right afterwards.

Also eat more, you need about +200-300 more calories ingested per day than you're burning off to gain weight. And if you want it to be muscle weight, you need to be doing high-intensity exercises.

My question is: How old are you? The reason is I recall my sister-in-law as a little 95 pound twenty-something that used to 'complain' that she couldn't gain weight. Once she neared thirty, those problems were long behind her. I doubt she'll ever see 160lbs again, let alone 95.

The point is, eventually your metabolism will slow down and you'll be, um...happy?

I do remember one time a body builder mentioned he would have peanut butter sandwiches between the late snack and early breakfast. In other words the bodybuilder would eat around 3:00 am and then go back to sleep.

I do concur that is not a lot of food. The food intake is not aggressive at all.

There is nothing wrong in switching the breakfast for a dinner meal. I knew a friend who was huge like a rock and ate a big bowl of rice and beans for breaksfast with 4 to 5 scrambled eggs.

I honestly you are not eating like a horse.

I may have weighed more, but that was the last start I recorded. Figured *close enough*

That and the start was weighed on a doctor scale, the other one is on my house scale, which mum says weighs a little heavy. Gosh, wish my parents would TELL me this stuff..

Oh, and I like.. barely ate till recently. I used to be a nerd >_<

At any rate, I still had a signifigant weight gain. You should just wait and see what happens after you adjust.

Haha, at new years, i was 5'6. Now I'm 5'8! I just measured. Wow, I grow fast. I'm 15 now by the way.

I had this same problem when I was doing ultra marathon riding, like PBP qualifiers and riding with some of the RAAM riders. I'm 5' 9" and rather heavily muscled, and I'm pretty darn skinny when I'm at around 170lbs. But I got myself down to 150 at one point and I got so thin that I actually got sick and ended up having to go see a professional homeopathic nutritionist to get myself back to feeling good. Most of these posts are right on, increase your healthy fats intake but still keep lot's of fresh veggies and lean, non-processed meats and whole grains.

I really appreciate all your advice and input. Thanks!!!

I know this might sound weird, but when I re-read my initial post and saw how my diet looked on paper I also realized that I was lacking enough protein and good fats. Strange how something looks different once you see it on paper. I probably should have done this before I posted. Anyway.... Today I bought a Braun Power-Max blender, going to change my recovery drinks to large smoothies with whey after every workout, I'm sure this should help especially since I love smoothies. Going to pump up the smoothies into a real calorie intensive drink.

Another dietary change I'm going to start making immediately is doubling the amount of lean meats & poultry in my daily diet. Buffalo steaks are really good and lean and I have a place that sells buffalo meat right up the road!!

On the way home from work just now I stopped and bought 3 lbs each of walnut pieces, almond slices and unsalted sunflower seeds. Also bought lots of PB & J. Going to try and eat a couple PB&J sandwiches over the course of the day.

One thing I should mention is although I'm only 5'5 I'm really very muscular, very broad shoulders and tiny waist. 132lbs on me makes me look like a skeleton, you can almost see the muscles hanging off me at this weight. I'm willing to bet that I can get some weight back on me pretty quick!!

I have a book by Monique Ryan "Sports Nutrition for Endurance Athletes". Started re-reading it at work today. Lots of really good info in it that I was overlooking. One thing I'm finding out is there is more to working-out than just the workout. Your body is like a machine, you have to keep it well maintained to see any benefits from performance upgrades.

I thought I put my age in the initial post, thought I did but didn't. I'm 52, looking to retire in another 3 years. About 10 years ago I weighed in at around a nice fat & plump 185lbs. All I ate was junk food and fatty foods. My cholesterol levels were off the charts. My doctor told me that I was on the way to a having a massive stroke if I didn't have a life-style change. I started working out, it became an obsession and within a year I was in decent shape and my cholesterol was well within normal ranges without any medications. Ever since then I became an exercise & fitness junkie. I feel& look better now at 52 than I did at 25.

Umm.. What are some good examples of "Healthy fats"?

Because I would REALLY like to stop beng so skinny at the waist.

I have to custom order dress pants, but most jeans and racing pants fit me. How in gods name does that work?

Anyways, it is good to see older people fit and still mountain biking.

Nuts, avocados and olive oil for starters.

The monounsaturated fats are good (nuts, olive oil, etc). The polyunsaturated fats are good too (salmon, etc). The omega 3 fatty acids are polyunsaturated fats.

Instead of worrying about foods, have you thought about cutting back on your mileage? How many days a week do you run 10 miles worth of trails? If it's everday- That's just insane, especially when combining it 45 minutes of weight training AND 25-30 miles of mountain biking.

Oh, omega 3, you say? I used to take them in the capsule form, but they actually made my hair too greasy. I LOVE pistachios so the nuts aren't a problem. I guess I'll try that stuff and keep you guys updated.

I probably eat 3500-4000 calories per day, and the only way I can get that much food consistently is to wake up and eat in the middle of the night, then go back to bed. And lots of little meals throughout the day. And if you lost of a lot of weight with increased activity, my money is on dehydration. If it happens slowly enough, you hardly even notice. ALSO, you should beef up your recovery. Instead of 8oz water & whey, add in some milk and carbs. And if you want more calories use milk instead of water. THe drink won't fill you up much more than your current drink but it will get much more back into.

Edit: Wow I just reread that and I must have been drunk or something while I typed it. Oh well, I'm sure the ideas come through even if the words suck...

I hear ya on waking up at night just to eat! Over the past month or so seems like around 3:00am I wake up starved and raid the fridge. Also today I switched from water & whey to milk & whey, actually I like the taste much better!! Tastes just like a milk shake, I switch between vanilla & chocolate whey.

Warden11: LOL Yup I know it's insane that my workout is so extreme. Everyone tells me that, but it just feels so damn good!! I do exactly 9.73 miles of trail with a 2,200 ft elevation gain in the first 1 mile, guys on 4-wheelers see me and can't believe I'm actually running up!! They use it for hill climbing. I'm getting my data figures from a Forerunner 305. I don't do running, lifting & biking all the same day, 7 days a week. But there are at least 2 days a week that I make it a point to do all 3 the same day. I try to have at least 1 or 2 days off a week to recover, I found I do better with the recovery periods. Usually the day after a recovery day I combine all three activities in one day.

Good fats: salmon, light tuna, sole, and tilapia. Lean cuts of red meats. Skinless chicken breast. Walnuts and almonds. Lots has to do with how you prepare the food. Frying is bad, grilling is good. Whole books have been written on this subject.

umd: You miht be onto something with the dehydration. That might be the reason why lately I wake up at night with an extremely dry mouth. My liquid intake might not be keeping up. Just this evening I went to Gander Mtn and bought 2 Camelbak hard waterbottles, they have the Camelbak bite valve on them. Going to keep 1 filled with water the other with Gatorade. Maybe having liquid more convenient to use might make it easier to increase my liquid intake.

Great saying from crtreerdude : "Remember, you are not living like a cow now, more like a predator".

qwerty37,

Sounds like you got it. Here is something else for those who need to throw on some more quality fat - black olives! Avocados are great too. Slice them over salads or just about anything you are eating.

You know, those out there who are sitting around not getting exercise are really going to hate you while you are pigging out trying to gain weight...

Grilling is bad if it is a food like Salmon - pan fry with just a touch of olive oil to lock in those very good Omega Threes - grilling removes fat if I recall.

Also, I am surprised that tilapia has much fat - it seems to me to be a pretty light fish. By the way, I have my own tilapia pond for fresh tilapia as well as another for Guapote - peacock bass for those who aren't familiar with the Spanish name.

I don't like frying anything, I do everything I eat over charcoal - even over the winter months (helps being single). For salmon and all fish what I do is smear a light coat of EVOO over the fish, get the grill surface to around 300 and sear the juices in that way. I grill it to 145F internal temp, this is about 6 min per side. Little fresh ground black or white pepper and fresh squeezed lemon juice and you have a meal fit for a king! Almost everything I grill I rub down with EVOO, it seems to lock in all the goodness, I use it on potatoes, veggies & sometimes even steaks. I'm a health food grill master!! LOL

I love avocados--I use them on my sandwiches instead of cheese. Lots of lean meat like chicken, and fish like Salmon and Ahi. I like to get cold-smoked salmon and sushi-grade ahi which I'll eat raw or pan-sear.

I know this might sound weird, but when I re-read my initial post and saw how my diet looked on paper I also realized that I was lacking enough protein and good fats. Strange how something looks different once you see it on paper. I probably should have done this before I posted. Anyway.... Today I bought a Braun Power-Max blender, going to change my recovery drinks to large smoothies with whey after every workout, I'm sure this should help especially since I love smoothies. Going to pump up the smoothies into a real calorie intensive drink.Don't know about that. Eating 3/4 pound of lean steak along with all the whey powder is way more than needed. Your body soaks up protein like a sponge soaks up water. Even if you pour a gallon of water over a hand-sized kitchen sponge, there's no way you can force it to absorb an entire gallon. Same with protein, your body will absorb ONLY as much as needed and the rest is converted to fat or dumped out. Look at the lean muscle-mass gained by professional bodybuilders in a month and divide by 30 and see how much protein is actually needed. Also check out these articles:

Bodybuilding.com - Anabolic Ammunition Arsenal (http://www.bodybuilding.com/teen/derek48.htm) (look about 3/4 down page for calorie-mix calculator)
ABCbodybuilding - A Scientific Investigation into the Rationality of Post Workout Carbohydrate Consumption (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/scientific.php)
ABCbodybuilding - Analysis of Nutrient use during Low, Moderate, and High Intensity Exercise (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/Nutrientpartitioningpart3.php)
Bodybuilding.com - Post Workout Supplementation (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/idssports8.htm)
Bodybuilding.com - Importance of post Workout Nutrition (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi4.htm)
SparkNotes - Functions of Carbohydrates (http://www.sparknotes.com/health/carbohydrates/section2.rhtml)
Peak Performance - How much protein do athletes need? (http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/protein.html) note "up to 150gm a day" for performance athletes.

If you are maintaining steady body-fat percentage while losing weight, then yes you ARE burning muscle. Low-glycogen on long rides is the cause of muscle catabolism. Eating protein does NOTHING to combat this, but only to repair that damage LATER. To prevent that muscle-loss in-the-moment while riding, make sure you eat enough carb-calories to keep your glycogen stores from getting depleted. It's A LOT easier to prevent the muscle catabolism in the 1st place than try to repair and build it back up later. The order your body prefers to burn substrates is roughly as follows:

1. carbs(glycogen)+fats
2. muscle-protein (in the immediate area when glycogen runs out)

The ingested protein DOES NOT go into being burned for energy, but into an intercellular amino-acid pool for repair later. Also note that when the glycogen runs out, you really cease to burn fat as well since an ATP from glycogen-metabolism is needed to initiate lipolysis. Your post-ride recovery drink should also have the most effective 4:1 carb-protein ratio as well. Check out these links:

BF - Recovery drinks (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=310959)
CPtips - physiology index (http://www.cptips.com/toc.htm#physio)
CPtips - carbohydrates (http://www.cptips.com/cmplxcb.htm), note the info on recovery drinks near the bottom.

Danno: I really appreciate all the info! You gave me enough info to keep me busy for a really long time. Tonight after dark I'll spend some time and look at all those links.

My body fat percentage is holding steady at 8% or 9%, don't remember exactly at the moment. I measure my body fat weekly. I figured that if I was loosing weight and my body fat percentage was stable I had to be loosing muscle - the weight has to be coming from somewhere. I also measure muscle mass, mine is 120 for my entire body, it used to hold steady at 132 but dropped. All measurements are done with a Tanita body composition monitor I own - I realize this isn't as accurate as professional measurements but I'm more concerned with consistency of measurements than exact measurements.

I'm curious, you sound like you really know what you're talking about. How do you know all this? I'm just a home schooled amateur, I have a couple books that I use for reference but that's about it. You sound like you do this for a living.

Danno, some really good links there. Wish I had more time right now to really read through them. Going to get dark in about 3 hours here, going to go for a mtn bike ride before the sun goes down.

I estimate I'm burning around 2000 to 2500 calories a day and consuming 2000 to 3000 calories a day maybe more

Your estimation needs some help. It's impossible to lose weight if you're taking in more calories than you are using. My guess is that you are burning more than you think.

... Brad

You're probably right. I'm going by the calorie burned estimation of the Forerunner. I've read lots of forum discussions of Garmin's calorie burned calculation being way off.

Your estimation needs some help. It's impossible to lose weight if you're taking in more calories than you are using. My guess is that you are burning more than you think.

... Brad

I just looked back at the original post - you're estimating that many calories burned from exercise, but your body burns calories simply to live! Quite a few, actually. (look up "basal metabolic rate.) So yeah, you're probably burning a lot more than you've estimated.

LOL, Man do I feel stupid!! I'm so fixated on calories burned during exercise I entirely forgot about basal metabolic rate. Going to bury my head in the sand for a while. LOL

I know my basal metabolic rate is very high outside of exercise. My body composition monitor gives me a daily basal metabolic caloric intake estimate, on the average it's 1,600 calories a day just to maintain my current weight without any exercise.

I have a highly active job & lifestyle, on my feet 8 hours a day, plus when I'm not exercising or working I'm always doing something - I am definately not a sedintary person!! A while back I was curious about how many miles a day I was walking on the average. I used a pedometer for a few months. I was averaging 21,000 steps a day, app 11 miles- before I did any exercising. I loaned the pedometer to a friend one day and that was the last I ever saw of it, I never replaced it.

Now everything makes sence to me! I appreciate your reply and reminding me of the obvious.

Man qwerty37, someone must have really put the "fear of death" into you to get you working out that hardcore :) More power to you.

And once again another fact-filled thread by Danno. Good stuff!

Question: I'm really in excellent shape, 5'6 and was 150lbs, trail run 10 miles 5 days a week and lift weights to keep toned another 3 or 4 days a week. Have abs and legs of steel! My problem is I recently started mountain biking and this added activity has me loosing weight like crazy. Over the past 2 months I've dropped down to 132 lbs and really hate it!! I'm burning muscle, no fat to burn; my body fat is 9%. I estimate I'm burning around 2000 to 2500 calories a day and consuming 2000 to 3000 calories a day maybe more, I should be maintaining not loosing. I only eat healthy foods, and lots of it. All I seem to be doing is eating, I'm eating so much I'm always feeling bloated and this is affecting my workouts.

Any suggestions on how or what to eat to gain weight yet not feel bloated?

Here's an example of a typical days workout & menu (I aim for at least 1 day a week off for recovery):

Snack: Yougrt

Workout: Morning 10 mile trail run, huge uphill sections. usually burn 1500+ calories.

Recovery (immediately following): 8oz water & whey, large bananna.

Breakfast: Huge bowl of Shredded Wheat w/lots of blueberries, almonds and walnuts mixed in with 2% milk. Glass of OJ. Bananna.

Snack: Fat free Yogurt w/fruit. Bananna, apple or other fruit. Granola bar.

Lunch: Love turkey hoagies & subs usually get 6" subs, Subway is great. Always on whole wheat. Large fruit cup.

Workout: 45 minute of weight training. Not sure of calorie burn.

Recovery (immediately following): 8oz water, whey & creatine.

Snack: Fruit of some sort. Large chocolate ice cream or milk shake - I love ice cream! Store bought smoothie.

Workout: Evening bike ride. Aim for 25 to 30 miles of really strenuous mountain biking. Try to maintain my heart rate in z3 & 4 for at least 2- 20 minute periods. Usually burn another 1500 to 2000 calories.

Recovery (immediately following): 8oz water & whey.

Supper: 3/4 pound lean steak, fish or chicken breast; baked potato; 1/2 lb asparagus or brocolli. Everything made on the charcoal barbecue grill. Large chocolate milk shake or ice cream.

Before bed snack: large bowl shredded wheat w/blueberries & 2% milk & bananna.

For hydration during the day I consume around 1/2 gallon Gatorade and 1/2 gallon water. I'm in the process of looking for a good blender so I can make my own smoothies. Within the next week I should be making them.

All this and I'm still loosing weight!!

Eat less often with bigger portions. You're fat-burning will dimish - visualzie what the difference between feedings small logs periodically in a fireplace, compared to shoving many in less often.

If that doesn't work, drink 1 liter of chocolate milk per day.

And if that doesn't work, go get tested for worms.