It seems that time is running out, and Rasmussen and Contador are outperforming Levi. Is it too late now? And who now is the Disco team leader given the GC? I'd say Contador has a real shot at yellow in Paris, given his fine timetrialing (he beat Levi on first TT). Levi just keeps going deeper into the hole but doing pretty well. Your thoughts.....

Levi was toast before the race started. He was never. Yes never a threat for the overall GC. This man never attacks. He follows wheels and in this race you can't always follow, you have to separate yourself at some point and Levi can't, or won't do it.

Contador has shown this season that he is a true candidate for TdF glory. One more year (if the sponsorship arrives) under JB's guidance he'll TT better and then, well we will see a great battle with him and guys like Andy Schleck, Thomas Dekker and few others.

easy to say now

I always struggle with what happens on the climbs, Contador attacks, Rasmussen follows, and Levi is left in the group. Sure I know he shouldn't go out front to chase down Contador (there's a difference between that and wheel sucking for the Levi-hating crowd) but if he just could make that acceleration he wouldn't have to sit in with the main group. Levi is just such a "steady pace" climber that he's left with guys like Sastre and Evans in the second group for sheer comforts sake.
I wouldn't mind seeing Levi try some more explosive stuff (Anyone remember the Rettenbachferner in '05 Tour of Germany, not exactly explosive but he turned the screws enough on Ulrich) but I have realistic expectations and at the moment unless Johan absolutely forces him off the front on Wednesday I think Levi will be content to contend for a podium spot in the final TT. Either that or he may be praying that he is in the front group if lightning strikes and both Contador and Rasmussen blow off the back (not very likely)
Either way, I still wish him the best of luck in the next week. GO LEVI!

easy to say now
except that EDR (and others) had been saying it long before tour even started...

He's not toast, he's WASA! :D:p:eek:

I was thinking there was some strategy going on using Contador to destroy Rasmussen, and he'd be there to lap up the victory. But now I don't think it's strategy at all. Contador is fighting for himself now and looking for yellow. Will Levi work for AC if need be?

he's WASA!

Look out! Pcad's gonna rain down some fury when he finds out you used his word :P

except that EDR (and others) had been saying it long before tour even started...

Yep, you have to look at how this year has gone. There is no way that Disco would have signed Basso if they though Levi was capable of winning the Tour. Levi can win short stage races, and then only if he can completely control the race. If he has to make a move to separate himself form the rest then he's done.

As it stands now, Levi has to put a couple minutes into Cadel and Kloden if he wants to stand on the podium. I truly thought this would have been the day he'd have made his attack on, but now he's down to Wednesday, (or he was bluffing, or just wasn't up to it). Levi is doing a great job of riding like he's protecting a lead, and he certainly hasn't made any stupid moves, but with each passing day, it's looking like Johan was hoping for Contador to be the guy from the start.

I never saw Levi as a real contender. A good team can help you win, but, at some point, you have to stamp your authority on the race. Levi's been promising an attack. I just don't think he has the killer instinct or ability. Just my .02

It is hard to attack when you are struggling to hang on. Just ask Evans. Levi is riding at his ability. He is in fourth. Not a bad ride.

Again better than Vino, Kloden, Sastre, Valverde, and on and on.

Look at the thread who will win the TDF. The one with the poll. Levi is in second I believe to all of the choices.

I guess all of those other world class riders suck to. The bums. Off with their heads.

Richard

I never saw Levi as a real contender. A good team can help you win, but, at some point, you have to stamp your authority on the race. Levi's been promising an attack. I just don't think he has the killer instinct or ability. Just my .02

I think Levi has a chance at the podium. Even if he gets fourth or fifth, how is that "toast?" He's a better athlete than most of us can even dream of being. All ye who criticize him, just think about what would happen is he showed up at your local training ride. Toast anyone?

Yep, Levi is second only to Evans of all the pre-race favorites. Contador has gained time on him primarily because he's been sent up the road to try to crack Rasmussen. If it wasn't for the fact that Chicken has suddenly found minutes in his long flat TT this race would be entirely different.

To say that he never was a threat to the GC is just ridiculous. If Chicken hadn't put in the TT of his life on Saturday, they wouldn't have sent Contador up the road the last two days and this tour would be between Evans, Kloden and Leipheimer. He's had an excellent tour.

Everybody just wants the "second coming of Lance". Not likely to happen anytime soon.

Levi was toast before the race started. He was never. Yes never a threat for the overall GC. This man never attacks. He follows wheels and in this race you can't always follow, you have to separate yourself at some point and Levi can't, or won't do it. Levi has never been known to suddenly explode up the mountain the way guys like Chicken and Contador can. :eek: I am surprised by how many people around here expected him to just suddenly crack the peloton and ride to victory.

Considering he is currently in 4th place overall, it's not like he has been a huge failure. :rolleyes:

Might want to look at how many educated cycling writers picked Levi in other polls.

Levi does what Levi does. Sit on wheels, ride a middling TT, and hope a bunch of other people crash, or blow up actually making an effort to try to win the race. He's only as high as he is because of Vino and Kloden's bad luck.

This is not a GC "LEADER", leader being a key word here. Yes, he's a very good bike racer compared to most, but the question isn't can Levi win your local crit or roadrace. That's not what they are paying him for. They hired him because they needed someone that all the "USA! USA!" folks who don't get cycling can root for.

Answer me this: How many TDF stages has Levi won during his career? I would think that would stick out like a sore thumb.

BTW, I've run into the guy a half dozen times. He may be a really nice guy to his intimate friends and wife, but to the general public, he's a jerk. When someone says hello to you you might at least give a nod.

Disco looks enlivened and organized this year because of the kid. They are killing it for him, not for Levi. Levi will keep the US audience at least watching, while the kid is going to help them secure a new sponsor.

Yep, Levi is second only to Evans of all the pre-race favorites. Contador has gained time on him primarily because he's been sent up the road to try to crack Rasmussen. If it wasn't for the fact that Chicken has suddenly found minutes in his long flat TT this race would be entirely different.

To say that he never was a threat to the GC is just ridiculous. If Chicken hadn't put in the TT of his life on Saturday, they wouldn't have sent Contador up the road the last two days and this tour would be between Evans, Kloden and Leipheimer. He's had an excellent tour.

Everybody just wants the "second coming of Lance". Not likely to happen anytime soon.

Disco went into this with 2 contenders and Contador has been the stronger rider. he hasnt been sent off the front for Levi, its for his own chances.

Contador has gained time on him primarily because he's been sent up the road to try to crack Rasmussen. If it wasn't for the fact that Chicken has suddenly found minutes in his long flat TT this race would be entirely different.

To say that he never was a threat to the GC is just ridiculous. If Chicken hadn't put in the TT of his life on Saturday, they wouldn't have sent Contador up the road the last two days and this tour would be between Evans, Kloden and Leipheimer. He's had an excellent tour.

:roflmao:

Sorry. Couldn't help that.

Contador has clearly out climbed Levi. More than that he's beaten him in the TT's. He's been sent up the road because he's the only one who can stay with the Chicken.

The only way Levi beats the kid is if they end up being the only two guys in the race and Johan makes Alberto ride a three speed.

I don't know JB may need to put him on a single speed. That being said Levi is still a good rider.

Contador is just in another league.

Richard

:roflmao:

Sorry. Couldn't help that.

Contador has clearly out climbed Levi. More than that he's beaten him in the TT's. He's been sent up the road because he's the only one who can stay with the Chicken.

The only way Levi beats the kid is if they end up being the only two guys in the race and Johan makes Alberto ride a three speed.

Although Levi is doing better than I had expected, he is, indeed, toast. The biggest suprprise to me is that Valverde is more toast than Levi. Had he crashed, like Vinokourov or Kloden, it might be understandable. As it is, he just looks lousy and unprepared.

Contador, on the other hand...definitely not toast.

if there was an award for the safest, most conservative rider - than levi would take it no problem.

Levi has never been known to suddenly explode up the mountain the way guys like Chicken and Contador can. :eek: I am surprised by how many people around here expected him to just suddenly crack the peloton and ride to victory.

Maybe he'll attack while the yellow and team are drinking champagne on the way into Paris? :)

if there was an award for the safest, most conservative rider - than levi would take it no problem.

no doubt...hes like vanilla ice cream. Acceptable but not what you really wanted.

if there was an award for the safest, most conservative rider - than levi would take it no problem.

His Trek even has airbags and seat belts.

BTW, I've run into the guy a half dozen times. He may be a really nice guy to his intimate friends and wife, but to the general public, he's a jerk. When someone says hello to you you might at least give a nod.


Not saying hello constitutes being a jerk? A touch sensitive aren't we? How many autographs do you think this poor slob signs every year? Give the guy a break. Like any other pro cyclist is any better.

I think we're forgetting that Levi is 9 years older than Contador. He can't recover the same way. It's a little unfair to say that Contador is in a different league when he is so much younger.

So, it's probably wise for Levi to bide his time, not torture himself, and hope for the other riders to make mistakes. He may not take the GC, but I think he's shooting for 3rd at this point and I'm not sure he wants to jeopardize that by attacking on one of the stages.

His Trek even has airbags and seat belts.

i think it is a rebranded volvo.

Not saying hello constitutes being a jerk? A touch sensitive aren't we? How many autographs do you think this poor slob signs every year? Give the guy a break. Like any other pro cyclist is any better.

I don't think I'm being "a touch" sensitive. I think I'm being reasonable, and actually polite to the guy. Not a one time thing in my case...more like six. And I'm not interested in an autograph or conversation. I've ridden past and gave him the cursory wave, walked past and said "hey Levi" several times, Etc, just like I would to any other cyclist. Not so much as a nod. Maybe he's deaf. I dunno. I'm not alone in this experience or opinion BTW.

And as far as other cyclists being better, I got a guy living around the corner who was on the podium at the TDF. He does some of the local rides and races, stops in at the local shops to say "hi", and generally thought of as a nice guy. We've got another local pro here who seems to be able to acknowledge other human beings. And I've seen UCI guys go out of their way to send a "get well" to one of our junior races who was in a bad crash.

And I've heard even Lance waves and says hello to folks when he's out and about.

I don't think I'm being "a touch" sensitive. I think I'm being reasonable, and actually polite to the guy. Not a one time thing in my case...more like six. And I'm not interested in an autograph or conversation. I've ridden past and gave him the cursory wave, walked past and said "hey Levi" several times, Etc, just like I would to any other cyclist. Not so much as a nod. Maybe he's deaf. I dunno. I'm not alone in this experience or opinion BTW.


Yes, exactly. You are not alone in this experience. Many other people have said hello to a celebrity and not received any acknowledgment. He's a complete stranger to you, yet you feel that because you know his name he should treat you like a friend. If some random person said my name and started waving at me, I'd probably walk away also.

But I live in NYC, and we don't even smile or wave at people we like here. Take it easy on the guy. He's probably just more of an introvert than the other "pro's" that will wave back. Do you think Rasmussen is a nice guy? He seems like a prick to me, and he's on top of the GC at the moment.

Yes, exactly. You are not alone in this experience. Many other people have said hello to a celebrity and not received any acknowledgment. He's a complete stranger to you, yet you feel that because you know his name he should treat you like a friend... If some random person said my name and started waving at me, I'd probably walk away also.

But I live in NYC, and we don't even smile or wave at people we like here. Take it easy on the guy. He's probably just more of an introvert than the other "pro's" that will wave back. Do you think Rasmussen is a nice guy? He seems like a prick to me, and he's on top of the GC at the moment.

I have zero personal experience with the Chicken, I'm not one of those starfookers who base my opinions of people on what I read in celebrity mags or my personal investment as a "fan" of someone who I really know nothing about. "Seems like" impressions as we know from Tyler Hamilton, are often wrong.

I've been around enough famous and noteworthy people that I treat them pretty much like I do everybody else. In the 100 or more bikes races I've been at or raced in I've never seen anyone act like that. And other folks have made similar comments about the guy.

And you might want to reread my post. I don't expect him to get all lovey dovey, I didn't want to have a conversation with the guy, because I had business to take care of. But when I'm at a bike race in the middle of nowhere and I say "good morning" to the person coming out of the Port-O-John as I'm going in, I expect at least the same back, not a blank stare. It's called being polite.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt the first couple of times. I'll go so far as to say it's pretty unprofessional, considering he's the public face of the companies that write his checks.

And you might want to reread my post. I don't expect him to get all lovey dovey, I didn't want to have a conversation with the guy, because I had business to take care of. But when I'm at a bike race in the middle of nowhere and I say "good morning" to the person coming out of the Port-O-John as I'm going in, I expect at least the same back, not a blank stare. It's called being polite.


He's a pro. If he's at a bike race, maybe he's focusing on his job. Personally, if you said Hi to me as I was stepping out of the port-a-John, I'd give you a blank stare also.

if there was an award for the safest, most conservative rider - than levi would take it no problem.
Yes, that would be the Lazy Loser award. :D

Not saying hello constitutes being a jerk? A touch sensitive aren't we? How many autographs do you think this poor slob signs every year? Give the guy a break. Like any other pro cyclist is any better.

I think we're forgetting that Levi is 9 years older than Contador. He can't recover the same way. It's a little unfair to say that Contador is in a different league when he is so much younger.

So, it's probably wise for Levi to bide his time, not torture himself, and hope for the other riders to make mistakes. He may not take the GC, but I think he's shooting for 3rd at this point and I'm not sure he wants to jeopardize that by attacking on one of the stages.

Most TdF contenders hit there peak in their late 20's and early 30's. Levi is at the prime age to be at his peak.

Look I've never said that Levi sucks. Like Vinokurtov said he's a very very good bike racer. He's just not going to win the TdF without the others cracking. He not going to make them crack, he needs them to do on their own. You can't win by following the guy in the lead, he can't rely on MS to have another meltdown in the TT, he needs to take matters in his own hands and that is a trait he's never shown. If you can show me one instance when he's attacked and made it stick I'd love to hear about it. The last time I saw him attack at all was at the ToC in 06 and Flandis chased him down.

The formula has been set, gain time in the mountains and do a good TT. So far Levi has done average in both.

The hype surrounding Levi is no more than the hype surrounding Tommy D or Hincapie. Last year the Forum was all a buzz on how Big George was gonna win the Tour. For years now we've heard about TD being the next LA. Levi was put up as our great American hope to win the Tour. He has never shown to be a GT winner. Podium maybe, winner, only if all the stars align and he's in the exact right place at the exact right time.

:roflmao:

Sorry. Couldn't help that.

Contador has clearly out climbed Levi. More than that he's beaten him in the TT's. He's been sent up the road because he's the only one who can stay with the Chicken.

The only way Levi beats the kid is if they end up being the only two guys in the race and Johan makes Alberto ride a three speed.

Well, contrary to what most people believe cycling is a team sport. If Chicken had lost minutes on Saturday (as his past performances had indicated he would) Sunday and Monday would've been completely different races. Rasmussen would've been allowed to go it alone counting him out in the final TT. Likely Contador would've been used to pace Levi and crack the likes of Evans, Kloden and Sastre. Instead, it's been necessary to try to crack Rasmussen. If you'll notice, it was Leipheimer who went first on the old one-two strategy. If he'd been able to drop Rasmussen, Contador would've sat on. Instead Rasmussen was able to follow so Contador attacked as the second punch. All of this is just elementary strategy. Leipheimer is a known quantity - he can be counted on to not crack in the final week. Contador is a young guy and historically young guys have more bad days no matter how good they look. Leipheimer has ridden EXACTLY as he would've been predicted to and has put himself into a position to win the Tour. He may well not win, but he's had an excellent Tour.

Now, it certainly has been shown in the past that a young guy can surprise and hold up and beat his older, more reliable, teammate and win or have to be artificially held back. Such a situation is a DS's dream - nobody knows who to mark. Two prime examples: Saeco in '04 with young Cunego and older Simoni at the Giro as well as the young LeMond and the older Hinault for La Vie Claire in '85. You're going to tell me that Simoni and Hinault were toasted losers? Please.

Yeah - Levi's horrible. He shouldn't be riding a bike. Anybody can be 4th in the Tour. He needs to man up and do something like Kloden, Sastre, Vinokourov and Valverde. Those guys are kicking his butt every day. They're real pros. Oh, wait........what the heck happened?

I agree with Vinokurtov, he has some good points in this thread.

Prediction: Levi brings the race down to under a minute difference after the last Mtn stage and the TT. It will be the chicken, Contador and Levi gunning at each other making for the most exciting finish in TDF history...even better than Lemond.

Winner: Levi!

Prediction: Levi brings the race down to under a minute difference after the last Mtn stage and the TT. It will be the chicken, Contador and Levi gunning at each other making for the most exciting finish in TDF history...even better than Lemond.

Winner: Levi!

:roflmao:Pfftt!! I think you need a 12-step program...:D

Most TdF contenders hit there peak in their late 20's and early 30's. Levi is at the prime age to be at his peak.

Look I've never said that Levi sucks. Like Vinokurtov said he's a very very good bike racer. He's just not going to win the TdF without the others cracking. He not going to make them crack, he needs them to do on their own. You can't win by following the guy in the lead, he can't rely on MS to have another meltdown in the TT, he needs to take matters in his own hands and that is a trait he's never shown.


I agree. I don't think Levi will win it this year. He could, but a lot things would have to line up for him.
He may or may not be at his peak, I just don't think his body can recover the way Contador's can.

I didn't even realize Levi was a celebrity.

He's bald...I highly doubt half of you would recognize him with his helmet on and if he was riding in generic cycling clothes without all the logos and crap.

And as far as other cyclists being better, I got a guy living around the corner who was on the podium at the TDF. He does some of the local rides and races, stops in at the local shops to say "hi", and generally thought of as a nice guy.

Is that Bobby J perchance?

xxx

if there was an award for the safest, most conservative rider - than levi would take it no problem.

Do they have a "milquetoast" colored jersey? This would go to Levi.

Not saying hello constitutes being a jerk? A touch sensitive aren't we? How many autographs do you think this poor slob signs every year? Give the guy a break. Like any other pro cyclist is any better.

I think we're forgetting that Levi is 9 years older than Contador. He can't recover the same way. It's a little unfair to say that Contador is in a different league when he is so much younger.

So, it's probably wise for Levi to bide his time, not torture himself, and hope for the other riders to make mistakes. He may not take the GC, but I think he's shooting for 3rd at this point and I'm not sure he wants to jeopardize that by attacking on one of the stages.

Deep down, he probably knows he's ridding for third at best, its just that no one wants to admit it.

I almost feel for him the way all the expectations of being the top american have been heaped on him. LA left some damn big shoes to fill and Levi ist going to fill them even if the press keeps putting them over his feet. Hell, the feedback loop of rider ego and america's expectations even got hincapie thinking he had a shot at GC last year. In his interviews lately he hasn't played up his talk as much, and is subtly starting to refer to Contador as the lead of the team. I just would like to see him ride in support of Contador now instead of stubbornly clinging to his lackluster top-5 shot.

I'm not realy bothered by the fact that he's not going to win or that he rides conservatively. Just all the talk about how he was going to attack and was somehow magically destined to sieze yellow ended up being very hollow.

Better to not talk and deliver big than to talk big and not deliver. Thats my only aggravation in the matter.

If he came in saying he was only shooting for top-5 (which is all he has ever really had a shot at), people wouldn't be cutting him down as much now.

We'll see where everybody is at after the last mountain stage. Rasmussen only has to limit his losses the rest of the tour. If Rasmussen cracks on Wednesday, then the tour is wide open again with the last TT as the decider. Levi has to start making up the minutes he's behind...not much time left IF he wants to win this year...a podium position is certainly attainable. Expect to see the stronger teams set a higher tempo to devastate Rabobank team and their support, make MR uncomfortable, and not let him dictate the pace/tempo. MR has been dropped in the past due to those tactics and we'll see if his training for this years tour can limit any damage. Who knows, MR could increase his lead. Been an interesting TdF so far.

Levi is awful, man has no balls

Most conservative rider jersey for next year? Beige?

Levi is awful, man has no balls

Right, he should be more like Vino. Hmmm, 28 minutes back with no chance of any Astana member getting to the podium. Balls are good but so are brains.

Let's face it, the white jersey for Contador, and two Discovery riders in the top 5 would be a huge win for Disco and JB, and a huge redemption from 2006. Johan is a sly fox, I wouldn't put it past him to pull out a few tricks in the next few days. I'm not saying Levi will be put into top spot, but I wouldn't be surprised if JB sent George or Popo out to do something crazy to put Contador in the yellow. I don't think AC can break Rasmussen on his own. He needs the whole Disco team to crack him, and that probably will include Levi somehow.

What I don't understand is, when MR & AC go on a break, the other contenders seem fine just riding in a pack. Are they hoping for MR & AC to crash? I would think the other guys, Levi, Sastre, Kloden, Evans, etc, would want to try to get time on the guys fighting for third. But I'm not a team manager. Maybe JB has a trick up his sleeve.

What I don't understand is, when MR & AC go on a break, the other contenders seem fine just riding in a pack. Are they hoping for MR & AC to crash? I would think the other guys, Levi, Sastre, Kloden, Evans, etc, would want to try to get time on the guys fighting for third. But I'm not a team manager. Maybe JB has a trick up his sleeve.
Levi has said that attacking is not his 'style of riding'. He and Cadel just don't ride like that (though Cadel has shown a bit of life in him this Tour).

Discovery and Predictor-Lotto have got to crack Chicken tomorrow if they want any hope of the yellow jersey. But I don't know if Discovery or Predictor-Lotto are willing to risk a decent finish in the tour on a chance at the whole thing.

Or maybe Rasmussen will fall off his bike a lot on Saturday.

What I don't understand is, when MR & AC go on a break, the other contenders seem fine just riding in a pack. Are they hoping for MR & AC to crash? I would think the other guys, Levi, Sastre, Kloden, Evans, etc, would want to try to get time on the guys fighting for third. But I'm not a team manager. Maybe JB has a trick up his sleeve.

It just ain't that easy riding against the worlds greatest cyclists on an HC climb. I'm sure they would all like to be able to ride away from the other guys. "Want" doesn't have a whole lot to do with it.