Bicycle Mechanics - Upgrading Sora

Recently bought a 2003 Fuji Flite 300 and already have the urge to upgrade.

Stock, it comes with the Sora groupo sans the crank, which is an even worse Cyclone. The stock chain is a KMC Z82.

My plan was to upgrade the following components:

FD and RD to Ultegra
Cassette to SRAM R8
Chain to SRAM PC58
Truvativ Elita Triple Crank and Truvativ ISIS BB.

Would this work OK with the Sora shifters??? Any kinks I coud run into???

Any ideas???

What's a Fuji Flite 300?

No reason it wouldn't work, AFAICT, if the BB matches. Waste of money, if you ask me, but you didn't.

RichC

Whoops...KHS Flite 300.

The BB on the bike is horrible, making a grinding and creaking noise when standing on the cranks.

Plus, Truvativ cranks require ISIS...

BTW, why do you believe it to be a waste of money???

Because as good a value in an entry-level road bike as the Flite 300 is, I generally think it's a waste to hang expensive parts on a cheap frame. And in the case of the upgrade you're discussing, you'll end up with 9-speed Ultegra derailleurs shifted with 8-speed Sora levers, so your drivetrain will still feel and perform pretty much like an entry-level 8-speed drivetrain.

Your BB sound's like it's defective. Why not get a warranty fix before you start spending your own money on upgrades?

RichC

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll make sure to get it checked at the bikeshop where I bought it.

Do you believe that at least upgrading the crank would be worthwhile???

I should be getting some more money shortly from both work and selling some of my hifi stuff, so I may just look into selling my bike and getting another.

.... must ..... swap ... out ... the .... Sora ...... crap ....

So should I swap it out???

...or should I just get a new bike???

For the money you'd be investing on a new groupset, you can probably get a new bike. However, you'd be looking at around $1k for a decent starter road bike. But they won't come with Ultegra or Dura Ace components, which you can get a group for around $700 I think.

Get the Cannondale R600. :D

I spent $500 for the Flite 300 new outta the shop.

How about upgrading the components to 9sp and getting a new wheelset???

I suppose I could get a bit less than that for it used (for about 1.5 months)

I'll have some $600 more in a bit from selling my hifi gear, but I also have to put some of it towards college (I'm working fulltime too during the summer),but I doubt I can end up spending $1k in the end.

I was thinking of making this a temporary upgrade, to be followed up with a Mavic Cosmos wheelset and a move to 9sp (Dura Ace shifters, SRAM R9 Cassette, SRAM PC89 chain)

Is Reynolds 531 really that bad???

If you really like the ride you have, you should definitely upgrade it. I have an old Trek 7000 I got on eBay and I've spent more money upgrading than than purchasing it. :p I'm just trying to give you some information before you decide on getting a new ride. Upgrading a roadie isn't cheap, though, not like a mountain bike.

I just took a look at the KHS Flite 300 and it doesn't look bad. I think it's worth upgrading. :)

Do you think upgrading Crank, FD, RD, and BB would be a good idea in the interim??? (not much more money to throw a new cassette and chain on it as well)

The Shimano Octalink spec BB is a much more affordable splined application than ISIS. There's one way to go. If your derailleurs are working fine, I would go for the shifters and save up for the derailleurs later. Maybe a roadie can chime in here.

A truvativ bb will only set me back between $30-$40 for their ISIS Elita Tripe crank for either the entry level SL or gigapipe-SL.

Also, the Elita Triple is only $79 from Nasbar right now.

And remember, you can always upgrade the frame later, and transfering the components over. ;)

Figured that would make more sense, seeing as I've only been riding my road bike for about 1.5 months, but about 2.5 hours every day of rain-free weather.

I think you're gonna like your ride much better every time you throw something new on it. :D

Sounds good. Thanks for your advice.

Two trains of thought. Buy something you can afford and wait to pick up parts along the way or just go bonkers and do the buy, buy, buy thing. I am doing the same thing you are. I have SORA on a Trek 1000. I bought it stock and along the way, I waited patiently and got some great upgrades. I have now acquired a 105 crankset off eBay for $65. The front & rear derailleurs went on special in Nashbar & Performance...both 105's for under $50. I am going to use those until I find a deal on shifters and then I'll go for the 9-speed setup. I know there might be differing opinions on this subject, but I say you'll come to appreciate what you're riding. BTW my dad has been riding a Klein he picked up in the 80's...it's still going great with periodic upgrades.

Thanks for the support.

that truvative ISIS BB is very hard to find, especially in the length that you need for the Elita crank. you need a 118, and I had a b*tch of a time trying to find someone who had on ein stock.

That's fine. I already found 4 websites.

Just a cautionary note:

The fastest way to depreciate an expensive part is to put it on a cheap frame.

If you sense that you're never going to be satisfied with this bike, it will ultimately be because of the frame. It's heavy, the fit isn't what you've come to understand is what you need, it's not stiff enough, it's too stiff, whatever. This is the bike where you learn these things.

When you go to sell the bike, it will still be a Flite 300, even if it has some upgrades. You won't recover the cost of the upgraded parts, because buyers of used Flite 300's are looking for a bargain.

And unless you plan to build your next bike from the frame up -- and put used parts on it -- swapping the old parts back before you sell it will just leave you with a set of mismatched used Ultegra and Truvativ parts that you have little use for.

That's why I generally advise people with new bikes who get upgrade fever -- and it's very common -- to hit the brakes and ride the bike as it is for a while. I've seen -- over and over again -- people sink two, three, four hundred dollars into a new, low-end bike that they end up selling within a year anyway, and most of the cost of the upgrades (which should have been invested in a better bike to begin with, but that's another thread) is wasted.

Just an opinion.

RichC

How about keeping the parts, but just selling the frame later...

If it were me, I would try to avoid upgrading the KHS. A goat dressed in silk is still a goat. That being said, the KHS is very ridable. You have put about 1000 miles on it so far, and based on what you said, the bike seems to be working out. The KHS has more utility value than the price it will fetch used, no matter what you upgrade.

Save yourself some time and money by just riding what you have for a while.

I would ride it while saving for another, and then keep it as a spare or a loaner bike, or maybe just give it away to someone who would ride it daily.

Dan

Dan

Originally posted by K6-III
How about keeping the parts, but just selling the frame later...

It would make some sense if you plan to buy a new frame and build it up yourself with used (which your parts would now be)and bargain-basement parts, although a used Flite 300 frame won't be worth much.

But will that really be what you do? It's almost always more cost-effective to choose your desired level of components (105, Ultegra, whatever) and buy a complete bike at that level. Bike manufacturers get groupsets a lot cheaper than individuals can.

The most expensive things on a bike are the wheels, the levers, and the frame. So those are what determine its value, particularly the wheels and the frame. Those (and the saddle and the way the bike is set up) are also the parts that create what a bike feels like to ride. Not changing those parts means not substantially changing the bike.

It won't hurt anything to replace the cranks, BB, and deraileurs. But it will still feel like the same bike.

RichC

Originally posted by Rich Clark
It won't hurt anything to replace the cranks, BB, and deraileurs. But it will still feel like the same bike.

RichC

No it won't. ;)

Originally posted by Chi
No it won't. ;)

Will too! :D

RichC

Rich makes sense, listen to him. If it's not broke, don't fix it! Seriously, if you've got a problem w/ the BB, get it warrentied. Otherwise, ride your bike for a while, enjoy it and figure out what you need and like along the way. Then, if you break something, replace it with an equal or higher level part.

Remember: it's the rider, not the bike.

Originally posted by riderx

Remember: it's the rider, not the bike.

Exactly my point. Sometimes we just need a few new things here and there to get our spirits going again with that ol' bike. It's all psychological. Which is the reason why I think getting upgrades will make the bike feel different. ;)

Originally posted by Chi
It's all psychological. Which is the reason why I think getting upgrades will make the bike feel different. ;)

No, you just have to believe you've gotten an upgrade. :D

RichC

Originally posted by Rich Clark
No, you just have to believe you've gotten an upgrade. :D

RichC

How do you do that without actually getting one? :confused:

How about upgrading the bike now, keeping the Sora stuff, and reassembling it for sale after acquiring a new frame later...

K6-III

It took me almost 18 months to change most of my SORA bike, started with carbon fork, cranks, wheels, saddle and everytime I made an upgrade , the bike does certainly feels a lot better esp the wheels, cranks, forks and saddle.

Ride the bike as it is unit the parts begins to wear then upgrade or if you have an old MTB hang the SORA parts on it for rainy days, trainer.

I already have an older Giant Perigee with Exage, and the Exage feels better.

Before I bought my 5200 I bought a Trek 1000 and I hated the bloody Sora components. For me, replacing the FD and brake calipers made a HUGE difference. Even with the Sora STIs it shifts faster, easier and more reliably than it ever did before I replaced those components with Ultegra. The Ultegra calipers will throw you over the bars if you dont treat them with respect, the Sora ones wouldnt even stop me in an emergency.

That said, switching to my 5200 which also has Ultegra was yet another huge change. Anyone who says that a $600 bike and a $3000 bike are the same and only the rider is different is obviously riding the $600 bike! :-) The 5200 is lighter, twitchier, faster and smoother.

My point here is that while making some changes to a cheap bike can yeild nice results, it will never compare to a nice expensive ride. It will however feed the upgrade bug which I still have in full force, now it's just accessories instead of components :-) must....have.....new......multitool!

Allan

Originally posted by Flea77
Before I bought my 5200 I bought a Trek 1000 and I hated the bloody Sora components. For me, replacing the FD and brake calipers made a HUGE difference. Even with the Sora STIs it shifts faster, easier and more reliably than it ever did before I replaced those components with Ultegra.

Setting aside the brakes, which have nothing to do with shifting, you replaced the Sora FD with an Ultegra FD, and this made a huge difference in the shifting. Front shifting, of course.

Sora FD's are wider than other Shimano FD's because Sora levers are the only ones that have no trim positions. In order to make an Ultegra FD work perfectly with Sora shifters, you have to adjust it perfectly. This is, of course, possible.

I suggest that it was the perfection of the adjustment, however, rather than the difference in the FD, which helped your shifting.

Indeed, Sora levers with a perfectly adjusted drivetrain can work very well. Mine do.

RichC

I suggest that it was the perfection of the adjustment, however, rather than the difference in the FD, which helped your shifting.

That may indeed be true. However the person who attempted the adjustments on the Sora prior to it being replaced was the same person who installed and adjusted the Ultegra one, at a discount, with no labor charges. So assuming that this mechanic did not actually want to lose money, I made the assumption that the Ultegra worked better. Unless of course my mechanic can not adjust Sora components correctly but can adjust Ultegra components correctly.

He is also the one who built and adjusts my 5200 all Ultegra, with absolutely no problems at all.

Oh wait, I forgot that my wife also has a Sora bike, and she has already had the FD replaced because it threw off her chain and was a pain to shift. Must be sympathy mis-shifts :-)

While not intentionally being a smart@55, I am mearly illustrating that my wife and I have personal experience with Sora that differs from yours, dramatically. We trust our mechanic completely and he has never recommended replacement. He adjusts, we test, works fine, week later works like garbage. We insist and buy Ultegra FD, he discounts and installs for free, never have to touch it again.

I sincerely hope your Sora components work well, and wish you luck. Ours were trash and were replaced.

Allan

Hmm rather interesting thread :)

I have always belived that it is the man and not the machine.. However I have to agree, Ultegra components feels a lot better than Sora ones, no doubt about it.

I wouldn't upgrade the bike though. I would get it fixed on warranty and then ride the hell out of the bike, and treat it good. After a while most of the parts would be worn out and I would buy a new bike with Ultegra components or something similar..

I learned this the hard way when I was mountainbiking, changed a uh some bike with a very Low Shimano group to LX components, took ages to get the damn thing to work, and it hasn't been doing that well either.

If you wanna improve your bike, start with the seat, fork, wheels, tires, brakes and very last the components.. Hmm I'm sort of preaching now I know :))

Agreed! Its always the engine that power away. Why do we upgrade parts ? Because it is easier than training?

I just don't see the problem here. He buys new parts, he throws the old parts in the bin. When he's got everything upgraded to where he wants, then he goes out and buys a nice new frame and transfers all the parts over to it. Then he goes into his bin and pulls all the old Sora stuff out and puts it on his KHS frame. Now he has a nice "beater" bike, or he can sell it for a few bucks.

Sure in the long run it cost him a few bucks more, but he's spread out that cost over the course of months/years and he's always "happy" with his ride.

Andrew

Sounds perfect. That's exactly what I now plan to do.

Originally posted by Ajay213
I just don't see the problem here. He buys new parts, he throws the old parts in the bin. When he's got everything upgraded to where he wants, then he goes out and buys a nice new frame and transfers all the parts over to it. Then he goes into his bin and pulls all the old Sora stuff out and puts it on his KHS frame. Now he has a nice "beater" bike, or he can sell it for a few bucks.

Sure in the long run it cost him a few bucks more, but he's spread out that cost over the course of months/years and he's always "happy" with his ride.

Andrew

Sure, and what makes you happy is what makes you happy. I get that.

But when new bike time finally comes, he doesn't get a new bike. He gets a new frame with a bunch of old parts hung on it. It's worth considering how much losing that "my first new high-end bike" feeling is worth.

RichC

Given that I'm a college student---no upgrading this bike means no new bike for some 3 years....or more...

Upgrading to an XTR FD (I know, no roadie here) did improve shifting, if only by a mere 25% IMO. Even though the price is high (almost $60), the sheer "shine" factor :D and the rigid construction of the part makes me believe it was a good upgrade. I have to disagree with the "my first new high-end bike" feeling, as a new high-end road bike, like you said K6-III, is hard to afford. It might be a nice novelty to have a Litespeed Vortex with Campagnolo Record carbon parts brand new sitting in your living room or garage, but who can afford THAT??? Certainly not us students (or those who recently graduated ;) )

I was going through about the same ordeal a few weeks ago- I have a new (1 month old) LeMond Tourmalet, which has mixed Tiagra and 105 components (and some terrible no-name brakes). I was talking to a buddy of mine who has a LeMond Zurich (little bit better frame, Ultegra components, and some sweet B. Racer Light wheels). I was mentioning that I was thinking about upgrading to all Ultegra on the bike, or at the very least, upgrade the Tiagra components to 105.

He shook his head at me, and swapped wheels with me, adjusted his saddle to my height (frames were the same size) and put me on his bike with the ultegra components, and my clunky LeMond Wheels.. Guess what? It felt like the same darn bike as my LeMond.. Sure there was a little difference in shifting.. the only thing I could REALLY notice is that the brakes were much better. Then I rode my bike, with his wheels.. And WOW!! Now there was the difference.

IOW: I experienced first hand what these guys are saying- the components.. you probably wont feel them much until you are a more experienced rider. If you get those Sora parts tuned up right, they will work just fine for you. However, changing out a wheelset, and brakes- now that makes a difference.. Hence why I am buying a nice set of Ksyrium Elite wheels from another friend, and have ordered myself a set of Ultegra brakes.

As far as MY inexperienced butt/legs meter can tell, I'll be riding the same bike as my buddy's, but in the end, will have paid a bit less (got a killer deal on the original Bike, and the wheels..) :D And, those wheels should last me a long long time.. and could easily go to a new bike, if I get one.

-BlueDevil

Originally posted by Rich Clark
I suggest that it was the perfection of the adjustment, however, rather than the difference in the FD, which helped your shifting. Indeed, Sora levers with a perfectly adjusted drivetrain can work very well. Mine do.

And so do mine. I find that the FD does need a bit of adjustment from time to time on my Trek 1000, but it performs adequately, and for me provides a reasonable trade-off between cost and convenience.

Sounds good. Looks like I'll be looking for a wheelset first, then a crankset, then the rest...

Good thread. I can relate to this. I bought my fixed gear built up with the cheapest possible components. Ended up replacing the wheels, bars, saddle & post, cranks. It rides a lot better now, and I really appreciate the difference, but it would have been cheaper to do it right in the first place.

On the other hand, I didn't know if this was going to be one of those things you get tired of, or one of those things you fund from the top of your paycheck. You can't tell in advance what someone's "gear comfort level" is.

On the third hand, there is a certain level of components that don't suck, take a beating, and yet don't cost too much. Stuff that, even though you know better parts, you wouldn't mind riding on. I think it would be really helpful, especially at the outset, to get a consensus on where this level is.

This is what I'm thinking about as I get ready to buy a real road bike...