Bicycle Mechanics - a 4 part question

this is going to be a thread with 3 different questions in it, the will come when the previous one is answered
so keep reading each day
and ill even tell you the subect of each question
part 1: rear derailer problems
part 2: tires and wobble
part 3: disk brakes
part4: after market items

Part 1: Rear Derailer Problems
okay last week i bought my first dual suspension 21 speed mountain bike
and its been a while since i had rode a bike
but thats not the issue
the problem is that i think i had a ****** build my bike at target
my rear derailer wont shift into 1st gear
no matter what i do
if i try and set it in the 1st gear, and the grip shifter is in 1st it will slip off into second
and when im in 6th it is in 7th
and then 7th gear is useless
i only have 18 gears instead of 21:eek:
which means that i got shorted
so what do i do?

Return it! Get a used bike from a brand that makes quality bikes as those found in bicycle shops rather than Target/Walmart. The bike will fall apart amazingly fast if you take it off road as it's design implies. It way too heavy and inefficient to use on pavement for any distance. It is probably not the correct size for you. Even if you manage to adjust the derailleurs correctly they will never function reliably nor hold their adjustment. In short it is never going to meet your most minimal expectations of it. I am a grad student at a university and have to explain this to my colleagues all day long when they ask me why their $70 specials are always falling apart.

I agree with BikingGrad80 here, but if you are still stuck with the Target bike, try the methods here. (http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html) Although you will probably have to readjust constantly and the bike will never shift very well, some adjustments can make a world of difference.

As uncharitable as it sounds, I have to agree that it is unlikely a Target bike will ever work properly and certainly not for long. When you get all of those "features" at a Target price, none of them are well made. The poor assembly quality you've run into is only the beginning.

If at all possible, return it and buy a much more suitable bike at nearly ANY real bicycle shop.

Now, what was your second question?

i had a ****** build my bike at target
there's your sign. :D

but seriously, you will be able to make the RD work by setting it up correctly. Just charge yourself for labor time on all 4 questions and add it to the price you paid. You'll find a real bike shop ain't as expensive as you first thought.

still dancing around on the 1st question
even before i bought the bike i was thinking about changeing some of the equipment
first of all i was going to have the frame powdercoated (my mind is made up on that one, and has been for a long time)
so while it is dissassembled i would change almost everything (i knew that just by looking at it)
if i was to replace the crank wheel and arm and the pedals
while i would be in the area i would also replace the front and rear derailers
i was thinking about getting the shimano XTR crankset and front derailer
could i keep my current rear gears? or do i need to get different gears for a different rear derailer?
wow this thread is going to be long before all of my questions are answered
oh well thanks for the advise and bear with me, also i know .............
nothing (lets just say that) about any of my questions or have any knowledge of my choices or how to accomplish them
so if you could please be very detailed.
thanks

Why not just buy a real bike in the first place instead of throwing good money after bad on a BSO

No matter how much you try to shine ****, it's still a turd.

Is the bike built as in the opening post, or disassembled? In any case, click CB's link for Sheldon's page. His web site is a great source of information, as is http://parktool.com/repair

I cannot think of any part on one of those bikes that shouldn't be upgraded, wheels especially. One of my colleagues went over a pothole and cracked the cheapo hubshell. Even If you upgrade every part, the frame will still be cheap, heavy, and rust prone. You will save yourself a lot of money, aggrevation, and possibly even pain by just buying a decent bike. If you really want to build your own bike from scratch, with parts of your choosing, get a frame off Ebay or from Nashbar.

if you choose to upgrade, treat it as a learning experience..it's cheaper than a college class where you may learn nothing

I have a friend with a $60 walmart bike that he's reassembled, i'm in good shape, he's older and he still can smoke on that bike even when i'm on a 'real' roadbike

Buy a better bike when you can, learn and ride now.

does anyone know what powdercoating is?
it is a form of paint
they stip the item to bear metal and in the process charge it with ions
then they spray on a postively charged powder of the color that you have chosen
then they just cook it in a giant oven for a few hours
and voila! powdercoating is stronger than regualr paint since it is clinging to the metal and it will last longer
okay now it is time for the 2nd part

Part 2: Tires and Wobble
when i look at my tires i can see a definate wobble to them
at any speed
so my question is how straight are your tires? do they wobble?
and how do i attempt to fix the problem?
or is it just nothing but the rims?
or is it the forks or what?
thanks for your help so far

Powdercoat is a good, durable finish. No one will have problems with that. Wheel wobble - you need to remove the tires. It will be much easier to tell by eye if this is a rim issue or just some cheap tires

Excuse me for sounding pretentious, but XTR cranks, on Target bike? is this guy for real, we dont have target up in canada but if they sell bikes anything like wallmart or crappytire, no offence but the BB for XTR cranks proably cost more than you whole bike, Return that POS and get yourself down to a real bike shop before heading onto the shimano website and say hmmmmm......XTR i think that would look good on:

http://www.sportchek.ca/image/style/large/330311359.jpg


oooo man XTR on that would be *****'n

okay i respect your opinion
but here is where we are encountering some speed bumps
i dont like that frame at all
i looks like a big stinkin pile
and i sure as heck dont like the way those tires look either

thanks for the info on the tires
if its not the rims, and the tires are not square to the frame
how would i fix that? or is there a simple fix to it?

If your rims are true, then you may just need better tires. I haven't used cheap tires in a while, but I'll bet the manufacturing tolerances are looser.

If you're lucky just remounting the tires and checking the bead all the way around as you inflate may be all you need.

Your problem most likely is that the rims are out of true, which is not surprising considering the assembly and component quality of Target bikes. You can fix this yourself, however if you've never done it before, I'd advise you to take it to a bike shop and have them do it. Should be fairly cheap.

I wouldn't upgrade any components on the bike. If you're serious about riding, return the bike and go to a bike shop and buy a real bike, not a toy. No matter how many things you upgrade, you will still be left with a heavy, rust-prone frame and cheap suspension that's designed to work like a shock absorber rather than like a real mountain bike suspension. If you really want a project bike to work on, nashbar.com has mountain bike frames on sale for $45. Buy one of those and build it up with all the expensive components you like. It'll be a thousand times better than a Target bike. Don't be fooled by the lack of rear suspension-most riders have no need for it and it can actually slow you down. If you don't want to deal with the time-consuming and expensive process of building up a bike- go to your local bike shop and buy a decent bike. It's been said many times in this thread and it's good advice. You do get what you pay for in the bike world.

thanks for the reply

now then moving on

Part 3: Disk Brakes
i want to know everything about them
can they go on any bike?
does the frame cause any problems?
how much better are they?
right now i have some cantilever brakes that i tweaked last night
so that they work as well as i want them to
how much better are disk brakes in a direct compairison to the cantilever?
how difficult would it be to put them onto any bike that you grab off the shelf?
thanks for you help so far
we are almost done

Your problem most likely is that the rims are out of true, which is not surprising considering the assembly and component quality of Target bikes. You can fix this yourself, however if you've never done it before, I'd advise you to take it to a bike shop and have them do it. Should be fairly cheap.

I wouldn't upgrade any components on the bike. If you're serious about riding, return the bike and go to a bike shop and buy a real bike, not a toy. No matter how many things you upgrade, you will still be left with a heavy, rust-prone frame and cheap suspension that's designed to work like a shock absorber rather than like a real mountain bike suspension. If you really want a project bike to work on, nashbar.com has mountain bike frames on sale for $45. Buy one of those and build it up with all the expensive components you like. It'll be a thousand times better than a Target bike. Don't be fooled by the lack of rear suspension-most riders have no need for it and it can actually slow you down. If you don't want to deal with the time-consuming and expensive process of building up a bike- go to your local bike shop and buy a decent bike. It's been said many times in this thread and it's good advice. You do get what you pay for in the bike world.

i understand this
but if i do decide to build my own bike then i still need to have these questions answered
not to mention my current bike is a first for me in many ways
its my fist multi-speed bike
its by first dual suspension
its my first with hand brakes
and i would like to understand how everything works before i go off and get elbow deep in a build up project

Let's take a deep breath and think about this, shall we?

Powder coating a turd will leave you with a powder coated turd. Hang all the paint and components on it that you want, but in the end it won't function worth a damn. You don't seem to care about that.

What you really want is something that looks good from six feet away, and that can pedal down the street. But you don't care if it will take a three foot dropoff without splitting at the head tube because you never intend to do that. Am I right?

Well, then. Think about investment and resale value. The $100 Target bike that gets upgraded as you suggest is essentially a $100 frame with a bunch of throw-away parts on it. The resale value will never be higher than the value of the upgrade parts. Powder coating is a dead loss.

Instead, buy a $100 frame and build it with the parts you want. You can get a decent frame for $100, and in the end you will have a decent - and valuable - bike instead of turd with sprinkles.

Does that make sense?

i understand this
but if i do decide to build my own bike then i still need to have these questions answered
not to mention my current bike is a first for me in many ways
its my fist multi-speed bike
its by first dual suspension
its my first with hand brakes
and i would like to understand how everything works before i go off and get elbow deep in a build up project

...and everyone is telling you what you don't want to hear: you're going about this all wrong. If you want to learn about this stuff, your first lesson is to listen to those who know and not just simply jam your fingers into your ears and keep asking questions. There are real bikes and there are toy bikes. You want to learn about real bikes. The bike you bought was a toy bike. If you want to get down the street to your buddy's house, great, that bike will serve you fine. If you want to learn about real bikes, get a real bike. It doesn't have to be more expensive, if you do your homework.

You'll never be Bobby Flay by insisting on using your EZ Bake Oven.

Now, assuming that you have build project at hand, how to proceed?

First, decide how you want to use the bike. Be honest. More for show than for go? That's valid.

Second, decide on an overall budget. Then get some feedback on what is doable with that budget. Perhaps a titanium frame or an XTR group is out of the question with a $500 budget. You get the idea.

Third, break down the build into sections and start to explore each section, paying attention to cost. You will fairly quickly come up with a list of parts.

Fourth, get some feedback on the overall build - how the parts inter-relate and cost effectiveness.

Fifth, go for it.

>>> Powder coating a turd will leave you with a powder coated turd.

I’m not real sure about that. Where would you attach the electrodes? Would a turd hold a surface charge? Would it remain stable during the baking process? On the other hand, you CAN put lipstick on a pig!!

OK, seriously. . .

Hedoe, you’re getting some red-hot and wise counsel here. I admire and applaud your attitude toward learning about bikes and seeing this through. Whichever way you proceeded you’re going to learn a whole lot. Good luck.

all right i understand about the el cheap'o
so just drop it
lets just forget about the bike
i want to know more about the parts than anything
so
Part 3: Disk Brakes
i want to know everything about them
can they go on any bike?
does the frame cause any problems?
how much better are they?
right now i have some cantilever brakes that i tweaked last night
so that they work as well as i want them to
how much better are disk brakes in a direct compairison to the cantilever?
how difficult would it be to put them onto any bike that you grab off the shelf?
thanks for you help so far
we are almost done

Way too complicated to answer.

I really love the free-form poetry, it's great.

I've never used a disk brake so I can't compare them to canti's, but I can tell you that you will be able to lock up both your front and rear wheels with canti or any side-pull brake. Now I am assuming you don't have steel rims - they won't brake when wet. If steel - go disk. If you need to stop a tandem - go disk.

so nobody nows anything about disk brakes?
okay
is there some online retail outlet that offers a catalog?
or does anyone know anything about that either?

www.performancebike.com
www.nashbar.com

thanks for the reply

I normally stay quiet, but i'll throw in my two cents.

Disk Brakes : From what i understand, you need a frame with disk brake mounts on them. They're usually on the non-drive side on the rear triangle. Front disk brakes need the mounts on the fork. I don't know how they compare to regular brakes, as i've never used them.

Wheel Wobble : Is the rim wobbling or the tire? When you spin the wheel, watch the gap between the rim and the brakes. If that part wobbles, the wheel needs to be trued. If it's straight, it's probably just the tire. With practice, you can true wheels pretty quickly and save some money, otherwise a bike shop will probably charge $10-$20 a wheel.

Powdercoating : What's your reason for this? If the bike is relatively new, the paint and finish probably aren't toast. Do you just want a different color or look? Compare how much you like the bike, to how much it will cost powdercoat, and how long you plan on keeping the bike.

Upgrading parts : It sounds like you want a better group, plus disk brakes (assuming the bike came with canti's). My suggestion, is to ride your current bike as it is, and repair/maintain the components on it. It will be a great learning experience, and you'll figure out where/how/what you ride. Keep an eye out for a better frame. If you plan on going off-road, you'll probably want a lighter-weight bike, or something that can really, REALLY take a beating. Look for features that you want, like disk brake mounts, color, etc. Nashbar has a $45 frame, if you want to go cheap, otherwise, look for discount frames, second hand, or brand new frames. Save a little longer and instead of upgrading the current bike, buy for the new one (some parts/sizing might not transfer between them). As you learn, you can build up a pretty nice bike that everyone on here won't give you grief for.

Check out the mentioned links, Sheldon Brown's website and Park Tools. Head to the book store and get a repair manual (Bicycling magazine's book, Zinn's book on mountain bikes, etc.). Read through those, you'll learn a lot about bikes.

I'm doing the same thing right now, sort of. I've been building and riding road bikes for years, and now i want to get into mountain biking. I picked up an older Trek frame, and am looking at finding parts to rebuild it. I've working with Target/Wal-Mart/etc. bikes, and the parts either don't meet my expectations, or don't fit the frame. I think the limiting factor of your bike will be the frame.

But, those are just my rambling two cents. Enjoy the bike, and go ride. You'll get some grief from everyone else, but not from me. I'm glad you still ride and are thinking ahead and asking questions.

I normally stay quiet, but i'll throw in my two cents.

Disk Brakes : From what i understand, you need a frame with disk brake mounts on them. They're usually on the non-drive side on the rear triangle. Front disk brakes need the mounts on the fork. I don't know how they compare to regular brakes, as i've never used them.

Wheel Wobble : Is the rim wobbling or the tire? When you spin the wheel, watch the gap between the rim and the brakes. If that part wobbles, the wheel needs to be trued. If it's straight, it's probably just the tire. With practice, you can true wheels pretty quickly and save some money, otherwise a bike shop will probably charge $10-$20 a wheel.

Powdercoating : What's your reason for this? If the bike is relatively new, the paint and finish probably aren't toast. Do you just want a different color or look? Compare how much you like the bike, to how much it will cost powdercoat, and how long you plan on keeping the bike.

Upgrading parts : It sounds like you want a better group, plus disk brakes (assuming the bike came with canti's). My suggestion, is to ride your current bike as it is, and repair/maintain the components on it. It will be a great learning experience, and you'll figure out where/how/what you ride. Keep an eye out for a better frame. If you plan on going off-road, you'll probably want a lighter-weight bike, or something that can really, REALLY take a beating. Look for features that you want, like disk brake mounts, color, etc. Nashbar has a $45 frame, if you want to go cheap, otherwise, look for discount frames, second hand, or brand new frames. Save a little longer and instead of upgrading the current bike, buy for the new one (some parts/sizing might not transfer between them). As you learn, you can build up a pretty nice bike that everyone on here won't give you grief for.

Check out the mentioned links, Sheldon Brown's website and Park Tools. Head to the book store and get a repair manual (Bicycling magazine's book, Zinn's book on mountain bikes, etc.). Read through those, you'll learn a lot about bikes.

I'm doing the same thing right now, sort of. I've been building and riding road bikes for years, and now i want to get into mountain biking. I picked up an older Trek frame, and am looking at finding parts to rebuild it. I've working with Target/Wal-Mart/etc. bikes, and the parts either don't meet my expectations, or don't fit the frame. I think the limiting factor of your bike will be the frame.

But, those are just my rambling two cents. Enjoy the bike, and go ride. You'll get some grief from everyone else, but not from me. I'm glad you still ride and are thinking ahead and asking questions.

well two cents is better than nothing
and thank you so much for all of the info
i dont understand why people want to give a newbie so much grief just because he isnt rockafeller and can go out and drop upteen hundred dollars on a bike that still fails to meet my expectations.
call me crazy call me stupid
i just like to make everything different if possible
that way i know it is mine and there isnt another one like it in the world

Sorta like doing a rim job on a Yugo? ;)

Sorta like doing a rim job on a Yugo? ;)

Don't forget the spinners!!!

We're not dumping on you for not being a Rockefeller, rather you came to a place full of experience asking for advice. The advice we gave you is that you cannot paint the Mona Lisa with fingerpaints. You told us you were going to put XTR cranks on your Target bike. Those are $500 cranks. For $500 you could buy a pretty nice damn bike, made up of real parts on a frame that fits you and is made well enough to trust. If you want to build a bike, don't upgrade hundreds of dollars worth of parts onto a POS frame. Buy a decent frame (like, say the Nashbar that's been suggested about a dozen times) and build it up using inexpensive, but real parts. You could even build it up with some nice used parts.

Tell you what, if you buy a Nashbar frame to build up, I would send you some nice older parts for the cost of shipping them to you. I'd bet a few others on here would do the same. How's that for newbie grief?