Touring - Trek 400T Elance selling for cheap--be wary?

I've set myself an ambitious goal to go on a fully-loaded tour to Utah one year from now, so I'm shopping for a used touring bike. I've read everything on-line that I could find, and I think this is a good deal, but should I be wary? I'm looking at a touring bike being sold in my area: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bik/379347311.html. It's only $175, even though it's just been tuned up and has what sounds like nice components. This is the perfect price for a poor college student like me, but I don't want to get burned.

If the condition is accurate, I would snatch that up in an instant! Don't hesitate if you want that bike (esp. since you are in the San Jose area).

While not a heavy duty tourer, the price is right for a 531 frame! It's more like a lightweight sports tourer, but I'm sure It'll handle anything you can dish out.

Be aware that it has downtube shifters (which I personally like) and the brakes are not cantilever. It doesn't have mid fork braze-ons but that isn't a big deal. The most important thing is that the frame fits you and is sound--not rusted, dented or bent.

I would meet him and check out the bike to get a better idea if he really re-built the bike from the ground up. Most people would not take the time to do this for the price he is asking.

Looks like a fair deal. It seems like brifters are the main factor driving up used bike prices. You may find the brakes to be less powerful than you would like for a fully loaded bike. Make sure it has all the eyelts you need for fenders and pann's.

"Reconditioned" is a hard thing to prove, but if everything on it operates smoothly and looks well-maintained, that should be good enough. If I were you, I'd offer $125 and see how much he might come down.

If you're not in a hurry, there's sure to be a deal that good or better to come along soon, anyway.

I've set myself an ambitious goal to go on a fully-loaded tour to Utah one year from now, so I'm shopping for a used touring bike. I've read everything on-line that I could find, and I think this is a good deal, but should I be wary? I'm looking at a touring bike being sold in my area: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bik/379347311.html. It's only $175, even though it's just been tuned up and has what sounds like nice components. This is the perfect price for a poor college student like me, but I don't want to get burned.
Hi,
This is a beautiful bike!
You just need to check that it will fit you and the components are good for touring.
If you will need to upgrade some components in order to adjusting the bike for touring, I think it will be hard to find replacements.
If you buy the bike, make sure you get friendly with the seller, I think he knows one thing or two on vintage bikes. If you will need to change some thing, you will be able to consult with him, and maybe he have the components for you in his garage.

OK, so it sounds solid. ronzorini, I assume (though I have no experience) that I'll be pretty heavily loaded traveling to Utah; would that cause any problems if it's a lightweight sports tourer? I found a page (http://www.cycle-tours.com/bikes/trek400t/index.php) saying it will only take very narrow tires; is this something I can fix somehow? As truman guessed, I'm not in a hurry, so if that's going to be a problem, maybe I should wait for something else.

OK, so it sounds solid. ronzorini, I assume (though I have no experience) that I'll be pretty heavily loaded traveling to Utah; would that cause any problems if it's a lightweight sports tourer? I found a page (http://www.cycle-tours.com/bikes/trek400t/index.php) saying it will only take very narrow tires; is this something I can fix somehow? As truman guessed, I'm not in a hurry, so if that's going to be a problem, maybe I should wait for something else.
You will need to know in advance what size of tires it will get. If its 32 I think it will do. 28 I think is narrow. Yesterday I have checked my Trek 1200 in the shop and 32 will fit but very close to the frame.

OK, so it sounds solid. ronzorini, I assume (though I have no experience) that I'll be pretty heavily loaded traveling to Utah; would that cause any problems if it's a lightweight sports tourer? I found a page (http://www.cycle-tours.com/bikes/trek400t/index.php) saying it will only take very narrow tires; is this something I can fix somehow?

I didn't realize it would only fit up to 28mm tires. Many people tour on 28's, but I prefer something beefier. (Usually most sport tourers during the 80's gave generous tire clearance.) Remember that you might want to add fenders, which will cut down on clearance even more.

Also, some say the older bikes are "noodley" when loaded down, but I haven't experienced that. If you are a clydesdale, it might be better to get a more modern frame.

If you are close, I would take the time to check it out anyway. The more bikes you see, the more you will know when the right one comes by.

If you are a clydesdale, it might be better to get a more modern frame.

I had to look that one up. If you mean a large person, I am not. I'm something like 5'10", 140lb, but size 15 feet. My inseam is 34", which according to various sizing charts and formulas I looked at indicate I should get a 23-24" frame.


If you are close, I would take the time to check it out anyway. The more bikes you see, the more you will know when the right one comes by.

I'll definitely do that. It sounds like a nice bike, but I don't know how important wide wheels are.

I had to look that one up. If you mean a large person, I am not. I'm something like 5'10", 140lb, but size 15 feet. My inseam is 34", which according to various sizing charts and formulas I looked at indicate I should get a 23-24" frame.
I'm 34'' inseam and its about 56-58. As I have learned from other threads, people with our inseam use Surly LHT 58cm size.
The guy wrote 60-61 cm, so I guess its little too big. Rivendell (http://www.rivbike.com/how_to_pick_your_bike/choosing_a_frame_size) will think differently from what I have read.

Two more things to consider. Are you going to be climbing big hills? This bike is geared with a "road" triple, so it's geared much higher than a loaded tourer usually is. If it's stock, the lowest gear on the rear is 28T, and the front is 52/42/32. Compare that to loaded touring gearing which usually offers at least a 32T low on the rear, and 46/36/26 on the front, or even 44/32/22.

Another thing is the short chainstay. Look at the link to the brochure the seller provides. The chainstays are 42.5; very short. Compare that to the 520 from that year, which are 45.5. The wheelbase is also 2 cm shorter than the 520 (not too bad actually), and the fork rake is tighter, which may make it a bit less stable under load. However, the short chainstay will cause heel strike unless you carry your gear high. If you carry 60% of your weight up front, and load your gear on the rack high, you can probably manage.

There are also only one set of eyelets on the rear and front, so you'll have to double up if you want fenders, or find racks with fender mounts (if you're planning on using fenders).

That being said, it is a good deal for what it is. I'd tend to believe the seller about the reconditioning, and that could easily cost you another couple hundred dollars at a LBS.

Check on the gearing, though...unless you have strong legs and are up the challenge!

kipibenkipod, thanks, every site seemed to say a different thing; maybe I should go to REI and try out different size bikes. My current one is definitely too small at 20". I jack my seat up more than 4", so I thought a 24" frame would work.

JunkYardBike, I have looked for pages describing which gears one would want and why for touring but all I've gathered so far is that one wants a wide range--20 to 100 gear inches, according to some sites. If you know of some good reading material on the subject, could you point me to it? As for chainstays, I know they're supposed to be long, but I don't know how long long is or how long it needs to be to fit a pannier. However, I don't want to be limited by my frame, so I'm thinking I want one with long chainstays.

Two more things to consider. Are you going to be climbing big hills? This bike is geared with a "road" triple, so it's geared much higher than a loaded tourer usually is. If it's stock, the lowest gear on the rear is 28T, and the front is 52/42/32. Compare that to loaded touring gearing which usually offers at least a 32T low on the rear, and 46/36/26 on the front, or even 44/32/22.


Don't let the 32T small chainring be a deterrent. You can buy a 74mm Bolt Circle Diameter (BCD) small chainring from many online vendors fairly cheaply. You will have to remove the drive side of crankset to install it, though. Smilarly, chainrings of many sizes are readily available for most cranks.

welll, being the proud owner of one of these bikes, maybe I should weigh in......

This was one of the best bike purchases I ever made. I bought it right out of the shop waaaaay back in the 80's. I have used it as a loaded tourer, for century rides and as a full time commuter. It's semi-retired now as I have more bikes better suited for each purpose, but I keep it at my office and use it on occasion for running lunchtime errands.

I used this bike for loaded touring in both Estonia and Ireland. It performed marvelously and never left me with so much as a busted spoke. Regardless of how many bikes I may collect in my stable, I will never part with this bike due to the high sentimental value I have for it.

While it may be multifunctional, it is not the ideal for touring. It is difficult to put fenders on this bike, though clipons may be an option. The widest tires I have ever used were 28s. I never had a problem with that size tire when touring on this bike, but I was using thick avocet cross tires which I do not believe are made anymore. Also, I pride myself on touring light so the amount of weight on the bike was probably not too demanding...only rear panniers and tent/bag/pad on the rear rack with occasionally a handlebar bag. The comfort level cannot be compared with my current tourer, the Trek 520. It is a bit similar to the Bianchi Volpe, though I think the Volpe rode a little smoother.

The bottom line: It's a good, solid, versatile bike with a long life and well worth the asking price provided it is a size that works for you.

Another thing is the short chainstay. Look at the link to the brochure the seller provides. The chainstays are 42.5; very short. Compare that to the 520 from that year, which are 45.5. The wheelbase is also 2 cm shorter than the 520 (not too bad actually), and the fork rake is tighter, which may make it a bit less stable under load. However, the short chainstay will cause heel strike unless you carry your gear high. If you carry 60% of your weight up front, and load your gear on the rack high, you can probably manage.

+1

Yea, with your big feet, you might want to get a bike with the longest chainstays you can find. I would still consider this bike, though, if you want to go FAST and LIGHT. With a penny-pinching college budget, it'll be tough to find a dedicated touring rig for that price.

IMHO...a decent used Trek 520 or Fuji will cost you $400+. Building up a Nashbar frame from scratch with new cheap components will cost you at least $600. A new Windsor Tourer will cost $600 on eBay. You might consider a rigid 80's mountain bike if you want something low cost and bulletproof, with low gears, ample braze-ons and fairly long chainstays.

kipibenkipod, thanks, every site seemed to say a different thing; maybe I should go to REI and try out different size bikes. My current one is definitely too small at 20". I jack my seat up more than 4", so I thought a 24" frame would work.
Reading the link I have sent you on Rivendell sizing, I think this is the way to go in touring rigs. They should let you be comfortable, so the bar should be the hight of the saddle or more.This can be achieved with 60-61 cm frame for 34'' inseam. With this information, I would go and test the frame.


JunkYardBike, I have looked for pages describing which gears one would want and why for touring but all I've gathered so far is that one wants a wide range--20 to 100 gear inches, according to some sites. If you know of some good reading material on the subject, could you point me to it?
Take care that you will have hard time, I think, to find replacements, and if you decide to go for 11-34 rear cassette, you will definitely have to change the rear derailiur and shifters if they are with clicks and not touch-shifting. This can be a big problem for you.


As for chainstays, I know they're supposed to be long, but I don't know how long long is or how long it needs to be to fit a pannier. However, I don't want to be limited by my frame, so I'm thinking I want one with long chainstays.
Yep, touring rigs are definitely pricey hobby.
If I were you, I would find a small job or just save money, and buy Novara Randonee Bike (http://www.rei.com/product/744804) for about 650$ with the coupon from REI. But you will need to wait for the coupon to arrive ;)
This will make you a very good touring bike for the money.
If you feel very lucky and can save about 1000$ you can go for the Surly LHT.

[QUOTE=ronzorini;4920689You might consider a rigid 80's mountain bike if you want something low cost and bulletproof, with low gears, ample braze-ons and fairly long chainstays.[/QUOTE]
I remember there was a post of recommending Trek 970 MTB, because of good components and long wheel base.h

Two more things to consider. Are you going to be climbing big hills? This bike is geared with a "road" triple, so it's geared much higher than a loaded tourer usually is. If it's stock, the lowest gear on the rear is 28T, and the front is 52/42/32. Compare that to loaded touring gearing which usually offers at least a 32T low on the rear, and 46/36/26 on the front, or even 44/32/22.

Another thing is the short chainstay. Look at the link to the brochure the seller provides. The chainstays are 42.5; very short. Compare that to the 520 from that year, which are 45.5. The wheelbase is also 2 cm shorter than the 520 (not too bad actually), and the fork rake is tighter, which may make it a bit less stable under load. However, the short chainstay will cause heel strike unless you carry your gear high. If you carry 60% of your weight up front, and load your gear on the rack high, you can probably manage.

There are also only one set of eyelets on the rear and front, so you'll have to double up if you want fenders, or find racks with fender mounts (if you're planning on using fenders).

That being said, it is a good deal for what it is. I'd tend to believe the seller about the reconditioning, and that could easily cost you another couple hundred dollars at a LBS.

Check on the gearing, though...unless you have strong legs and are up the challenge!

He's already said it, but 42cm chainstays and size 15 feet make this bike a poor choice for touring duty.

The 400t is simply an old sport racing bike that came with a triple crank.

Gearing is too high, 6 speed freewheel drive (redone ?). 1987 400T stock is 32/28*27= 31 gear inches. 20 for a low gear would be better.

You're better off getting a surly LHT and building to suit. JensonUSA's got em for 400 shipped. You can build it up for under 1000 if careful shopper. Then add in 300 for rack annd panniers (people often fail to budget for this).

Cheaper option may be an old hardtail mtb and a trailer.

You're better off getting a surly LHT and building to suit. JensonUSA's got em for 400 shipped. You can build it up for under 1000 if careful shopper. Then add in 300 for rack annd panniers (people often fail to budget for this).
Can you please explain how to get components for building the LHT for about 600$ ?

Don't let the 32T small chainring be a deterrent. You can buy a 74mm Bolt Circle Diameter (BCD) small chainring from many online vendors fairly cheaply. You will have to remove the drive side of crankset to install it, though. Smilarly, chainrings of many sizes are readily available for most cranks.

But then he may need a new front derailleur that can handle the larger jump. I really don't know of any front derailleurs that would work with a 52T large chainring and something like a 26 or 22 small. I'm sure I could be proven wrong though. With a smaller chainring, you would also need to take up more slack, so it's possible, but not necessarily certain, that you'd need a rear derailleur with a longer cage to take up the slack. The stock derailleur is likely a long cage, but it's designed for 20T difference in front. Increasing that may cause problems.


If you know of some good reading material on the subject, could you point me to it?

Gearing is a highly personal matter, and also depends largely on where you'll be touring, but a general recommendation if you will be climbing hills is something between a 22T - 26T low front, and a 32T-34T low rear. So something like a 48/36/26 or 46/34/24 or 44/32/22 on front and 11-34T rear. You can customize gearing quite a bit.

Here's a pretty good write up on gearing: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/gears.htm
Here's Sheldon Brown's gear calculator: http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

I'll agree with many of the comments above. It's going to be very difficult to find a dedicated touring bike at your pricepoint. One option may be to look for a dedicated touring bike in poor condition, and then having it reconditioned, or better yet do it yourself. But the problem with many vintage touring bikes is that the gearing is often too high, and the wheels are 27", which limits tire choice (no fat tires available).

That being said, your biggest mistake was posting here! :) Chances are you could have bought that thing without inquiring here, gone on tour, had a blast, and not known any different!

Can you please explain how to get components for building the LHT for about 600$ ?

It's possible. I built a Nashbar touring frame for about $700 (which includes $140 for the frame), but that also includes one set of panniers, rear rack and light kit. Found a $100 wheelset (Alivio hubs laced to CR-18 rims). Oh, and I built it myself...didn't pay the LBS to do it. Shopping for the bargains I found would cost many people their sanity.

You know, I think the seller of that bike may be a BF member, but I'm not certain. You might try contacting him and asking if he has any dedicated tourers, or if he can keep an eye out for one. There are a number of "flippers" in the SF area who are regulars of the C&V forum.

P.S. I don't use the term "flipper" in a derogatory way. I flip bikes myself to fuel my hobby, and usually, when I completely overhaul a bike, I COMPLETELY overhaul it to like new condition. If I'm right about this seller, he does the same, and that bike would be a steal, considering the time and small investment necessary to recondition a bike.

If the condition is accurate, I would snatch that up in an instant! Don't hesitate if you want that bike (esp. since you are in the San Jose area).

While not a heavy duty tourer, the price is right for a 531 frame! It's more like a lightweight sports tourer, but I'm sure It'll handle anything you can dish out.

Be aware that it has downtube shifters (which I personally like) and the brakes are not cantilever. It doesn't have mid fork braze-ons but that isn't a big deal. The most important thing is that the frame fits you and is sound--not rusted, dented or bent.

I would meet him and check out the bike to get a better idea if he really re-built the bike from the ground up. Most people would not take the time to do this for the price he is asking.

Actually the bike in question is mine. Another member from the Classic and Vintage forum sent me an e-mail just a few minutes ago. As for the reconditioned part, "Yes" I tore it down to the frame and built it back up. "Why would I do that and sell it so cheap?" I get parts for cheap but I also believe in selling a bike that you can just get on it and ride compared to these POS bikes you find on Craigslist that sell for the same price. Now here's the downside to the bike. The tires are not 700CC but 27" I had to replace the wheelset because the rear rim had a hairline crack in it and was unsafe to ride. I had this matching Araya 27" polished/eyeletted wheelset sitting around so I put those on instead because the brakes had room for the adjustment. So for "loaded" touring this would probably not work unless you changed to 700cc x 28. Does have rack braze-ons but again this is nothing like my Trek 720. I appreciate the comments on the bike form the other members as they always help people make decisions on bikes and do see good deals when they come around. Thanks Guys!

That being said, your biggest mistake was posting here! :) Chances are you could have bought that thing without inquiring here, gone on tour, had a blast, and not known any different!

Thats so true!:roflmao:

There's kids touring on fixies, dumpster find bikes, etc, etc. All you need is desire and youth!

And sorry Mhendricks...didn't mean to imply your bike wasn't as advertised. I've read your previous posts and respect what you do. Not many people would take the time to fully prep a Craigslist bike.

Thats so true!:roflmao:

There's kids touring on fixies, dumpster find bikes, etc, etc. All you need is desire and youth!

And sorry Mhendricks...didn't mean to imply your bike wasn't as advertised. I've read your previous posts and respect what you do. Not many people would take the time to fully prep a Craigslist bike.

No problem about anything from me. The reason my bikes go so fast is that I do prep them. Some people don't understand that they wonder why I won't budge on the price but then go out and buy a bike that then needs $100-$150 in work at a bike shop.

kipibenkipod, you mention a coupon that brings the Novara Randonee down to $650. I'd love to know where I can find such a coupon, since the bike's currently over $1000. At any rate, it looks like I'm going to increase my budget to get a nice touring bike.

kipibenkipod, you mention a coupon that brings the Novara Randonee down to $650. I'd love to know where I can find such a coupon, since the bike's currently over $1000. At any rate, it looks like I'm going to increase my budget to get a nice touring bike.
Reading the forum, some people did that. Just search the forum and read about the novara. There you will find how they did it. I think if I remember correctly that when REI want to move a year or in holidays they will have the coupon. Also I have read that if you have another discount, like a memeber of REI or something , you will get the discount also with the coupon, so people did very good with it.
People that have experience with REI Novara discounts, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Now, you did the right thing to wait and save money, and then buy a real touring bike. Just hang around and read the threads, you will learn a lot from them. I would also invest time reading about the Surly LHT frame and the nashbar frame which now it is on discount 140$ and just sizes 50 and 52.
Don't rush, read the forum threads about LHT, Nashbar, Novara Randonee, Sherpa 30, Jamis Aurora.
Learn about wheels, saddle, panniers and stuff.
Get technical, learn about your future bike. You will need it on the road.
Now you will have the big picture. I think then you will save more money and buy something that you will enjoy riding for a lot of miles. Thats what I'm doing right now.

I'd say this is a matter of money. It's an older bike, with limitations for touring compared to modern tourers. If you could possibly buy something new, and settle for this, you might regret it. On the other hand, if your budget is such that $175 makes this possible and something newer impossible, then this might be just the thing.

My first tours were on an old Raleigh 10-speed that my parents bought me in 1973. It was for riding to school and back when I went away to college. It certainly wasn't a touring bike. But it was all I had and I had no money. It took me on several great tours, which got me hooked on bike touring. It was tough going up steep hills with a load, but I was young and I had no choice, so I did it.

In those days I would have loved to have a bike like this.

If the price is still making you consider this bike, here are some thoughts. Don't worry too much about being limited to 28mm tires. I've toured on 28mm Specialized Armadillos for years. I'd worry more about the fact that these are 27inch rims instead of 700mm. However, you should still be able to find good 27 x 1 1/4 tires around.

If you have any money left over, you might consider investing in a new rear wheel. Breaking spokes on the rear wheel is probably the most common breakdown, after flat tires. It can spoil a tour if you're not prepared (with emergency spokes, tools, know-how, etc.), and be a major annoyance even if you are. Normal road wheels are not meant to carry a heavy load on tour. You might consider going into a good bike shop and asking the mechanic to build you a wheel that can handle a load. However, be prepared - it will likely cost more than this bike. If you don't weigh much, and you pack light, this might not be necessary. However, at least get some kevlar emergency spokes and a spoke wrench.

Downtube shifters work fine. If you haven't used them before, like anything else, they'll take a little getting used to, but no big deal.

This looks like a tall bike. Make sure it fits. I'd think you'd need to be at least 6' for a bike like this. Maybe the seller can chime in with how tall he is and how well it fits him.

The gear range may not be up to modern touring standards. If you're young and strong you might not mind - after all, 18 speeds are better than 10, right? (Oh, what I would have given for a granny gear on that old Raleigh!) I'm not sure how easy it would be to swap out chainrings on this, but there is usually a way. Sheldon Brown's website can help.

Overall, I'd say this is a sweet deal for $175, and if you have a limited budget, buy it. Then you could save any leftover money for panniers, a stove, a pump, etc.