Today, both of these stories broke. Vino is busted for blood doping, while Vick is indicted for hosting a vicious dog fighting ring. Vino transfused someone elses blood into his body, while Vick participated in the sadistic and systematic torturing and killing of dogs purely for amusement purposes. I certainly don't think these are like issues, but I think you understand where I'm going.

For Vino, it's pure and TOTAL disgrace. For Vino, it's the loss of a year's worth of wages. For Vino, it's being fired, and the entire team (read: sponsor) will most likely leave the sport. For Vino, he will forever live a life of disgrace for cheating in a bike race.

For Vick, there's a slightly different story. Has he been fired from the Atlanta Falcons? No, in fact they are still paying him and want him to report to camp. Did the NFL or the Falcons do ANYTHING? Well, the Falcons did consider a 4 game suspension, but have now backed down from even that tiny little slap on the wrist.

I'm not stating that Vick will necessarily walk clean (although my money is on that very thing), but consider the different attitudes in sport for just one second. It's startling. Perhaps the most ironic part of this story is that given the total lack of doping controls in the NFL, you know Vick is doping also. I can't imagine that he has any moral problem with doping given the above. Great stuff. :(

... Brad

Technically the Falcons were told not to do anything by the NFL commish. Vick won't play this year, in fact I would bet my year's pay that he won't play in Atlanta again.

Technically the Falcons were told not to do anything by the NFL commish. Vick won't play this year, in fact I would bet my year's pay that he won't play in Atlanta again.

Yes, but like many other criminals before he will promptly be hired by another NFL team once released by the Falcons.
In professional sports MONEY is more important than Honesty, Integrity, and Morality combined.

Vick has been told not to report to training camp while the NFL determines what direction they will go in this. We will learn nothing more until after his initial hearing, when is that, thursday?

There really isn't any comparison here. Vick's alleged behaviors affected victims. The sport of cycling may be a victim of Vino's actions, but only philosophically.

I'm not stating that Vick will necessarily walk clean (although my money is on that very thing)

No chance he walks clean. Unless there is a serious breakdown in the case, and Vick is cleared of all charges, he will not play a single game this season. And depending on what he ends up being convicted of, I think there is a possibility of him never playing in the NFL again. I was actually pleasantly surprised to hear the amount of outrage in the press and among the general public. This one isn't going away. (And neither is the NBA ref scandal.)

It took this long to indict him because they didn't want this to be a witch hunt. I think they waited till they had the nail in the coffin before doing so.

and I agree, I even think he could pull some jail time, but someone would pick him up.

I though you were talking about this Vick:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/halimec05/vick.jpg

Vick was just working on his resume for the raiders job....

Vic Mackey (sp?) is the man!

Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

Cycling: 1st adverse finding = 2 yr ban + fine of 1 full year's salary (a new penalty), 2nd = lifetime ban
NFL: 1st adverse finding = 4 game suspension + fine of 25% of annual pay, 2nd = 8 game suspension, 3rd = out for the season. Also, no testing for HGH, and 8 stimulants (vs 40 for Olympic sports).

And the NFL apparently has the most "stringent" policies for any major US sport.

Is that enough of a contrast for you? ;)

Vino cheated in cycling so cycling has come down hard on him. Vick's misdeeds were not in football, so it's not up to football to punish him unless he broke football rules, for example around gambling with his dog ring.

Vick screwed up on a human level not just a sporting one. Vick should never play football again. But I'm a member of PETA so what do I know? :)

Of course to stop dopers make it a lifetime ban? If you cheat your done....

Vick is accused of multiple serious felonies. Which means instead of jail time, he's facing the Penitentiary, in this particular case the Federal Pen. He gets out in let's say 4 years, and the State probably doesn't also charge him, but oh well he's now almost too old and slow to play in NFL.

Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

Cycling: 1st adverse finding = 2 yr ban + fine of 1 full year's salary (a new penalty), 2nd = lifetime ban
NFL: 1st adverse finding = 4 game suspension + fine of 25% of annual pay, 2nd = 8 game suspension, 3rd = out for the season. Also, no testing for HGH, and 8 stimulants (vs 40 for Olympic sports).

And the NFL apparently has the most "stringent" policies for any major US sport.

Is that enough of a contrast for you? ;)

Hey, according to the NFL, there is NO reliable test for HGH! :rolleyes:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11588.0.html

Why would you insult Vino like that, comparing him to Vick!:eek:
Vick may be doping as well, but I'm sure Vino not torturing and killing dogs.

Vick will never play in the NFL again.

Vino, unfortunately, will probably be too old to ride again, but he would be welcomed back

Vick will never play in the NFL again.

Vino, unfortunately, will probably be too old to ride again, but he would be welcomed back

Yep Vick is done in the NFL. Hes going to jail for a long time. He wasnt that good anyways. Good riddance you piece of trash.

and

As was stated earlier Vick did not cheat in his sport. He committed a terrible crime that I and 95% of the NFL will never forgive him for. Hes a piece of garbage that the NFL has tossed out as such.

Vino did no harm to another person/animal but he has probably dealt a final death blow to the sport. Where as Vicks action have had no negative impact on the game of football.

95% of the NFL will never forgive him for.

.

I don't believe that at all, I bet something in the range of 25% of NFL players think dog fighting is ok, it's all part of the hip hop "culture" Probably another 25% don't like dogfighting, but don't think it should be illegal.
Plus you've got a fair amount of Samoans in the NFL, and I believe dog fighting is legal there.
Of course any NFL players with a brain would hate dog fighting.

Yep Vick is done in the NFL. Hes going to jail for a long time.

Do you remember the OJ trial? :eek:

My guess is that Vick walks with NO jailtime, and he's back in the NFL either this year, or next. Perhaps he'll spend his time off looking for the REAL dog torturer? :D

... Brad

I could not disagree more. People are nuts (I mean that in a good way) about the Vick thing. Protesting the league, protesting the Falcons and protesting Home Depot (the Falcons owner owns HD). I know people that have canceled their DirectTV NFL package because the league did not act fast enough. My father actually is trying to spend his own money putting up billboards in NFL cities with dead pit bulls with 'is the face of pro sports' (no place will do it). I will stop watching NFL and will stop doing Fantasy football if he plays this year.

Doping cyclist . . . I honestly see no disgrace at all here, but that is from a US perspective. It is expected.

Wait for both to play out . . . Vick has played his last game and he will get what he deserves.

Wait for both to play out . . . Vick has played his last game and he will get what he deserves.

I HOPE you are correct, Greg.

... Brad

I hope I right too. This is a federal grand jury, not the knuckleheads who came up with the verdict on OJ.

If I am right and he gets what he deserves, then lets compare these two. One will be banned from cycling. One will be in jail and will have lost probably 50+ million dollars (between lost endorsements and contracts). That would make these not even friggen close. Nor should they be. One is a SICK MEAN crime and one is a guy doing what many others do in a sport.

Do you remember the OJ trial? :eek:

My guess is that Vick walks with NO jailtime, and he's back in the NFL either this year, or next. Perhaps he'll spend his time off looking for the REAL dog torturer? :D

... Brad


OJ was up against an incompetent LA County PD. Vick is up against teh FEDERAL government.

I don't believe that at all, I bet something in the range of 25% of NFL players think dog fighting is ok, it's all part of the hip hop "culture" Probably another 25% don't like dogfighting, but don't think it should be illegal.
Plus you've got a fair amount of Samoans in the NFL, and I believe dog fighting is legal there.
Of course any NFL players with a brain would hate dog fighting.


I was refering to the fan base. Not the players.

I agree . . . many NFL players see nothing wrong with this (and they have said so). It shows how friggen clueless they are. And how many of our sports idols are pieces of crap that would not survive in the real world without going to jail.

If I am right and he gets what he deserves, then lets compare these two. One will be banned from cycling. One will be in jail and will have lost probably 50+ million dollars (between lost endorsements and contracts). That would make these not even friggen close. Nor should they be. One is a SICK MEAN crime and one is a guy doing what many others do in a sport.

That may be the way it all shakes out. I REALLY hope so. However, my OP referred to what has happened right now - that contrast. Right now Vino gets whacked. He's gone from the TdF, and so is his team. His racing career and reputation is also done. Vick, on the other hand, is still getting paid. Even a 4 game suspension has been overruled. That's the contrast I'm referring to.

... Brad

That may be the way it all shakes out. I REALLY hope so. However, my OP referred to what has happened right now - that contrast. Right now Vino gets whacked. He's gone from the TdF, and so is his team. His racing career and reputation is also done. Vick, on the other hand, is still getting paid. Even a 4 game suspension has been overruled. That's the contrast I'm referring to.

... Brad

That is a fair point, but I think it is sort of apples and oranges. Cycling has a drug problem, I think we could all admit that. As such, they do things like kicking them off the TdF if they test positive. They have rules in place.
On the contrary, while bad behavior is widespread in the NFL, no one 6 months ago could have said the NFL has a dog fighting problem. The new commish, Roger G, has started to crack down on repeat offenders. Vicks crime is serious (very serious to me) but he does not quite have the threshold of the other players that have been whacked as far as repeat offenses. Secondly, much of this is going to at least start quickly, unlike many of the charges in the PACMAN Jones cases. I think this allows Roger to kind of hold on.

I wish Vick was given a 1 year ban from the NFL right now. I wish that he never plays again. I just think that these will both effectively happen, which is why I have my stance. I am clearly letting what I hope and think will happen change my outlook.

That may be the way it all shakes out. I REALLY hope so. However, my OP referred to what has happened right now - that contrast. Right now Vino gets whacked. He's gone from the TdF, and so is his team. His racing career and reputation is also done. Vick, on the other hand, is still getting paid. Even a 4 game suspension has been overruled. That's the contrast I'm referring to.

... Brad
The NFL is moving quickly on this and Vick isnt going to take even a sanp in practice. What more could you want? This is a criminal matter that the NFL is taking its own steps to punish Vick. If VINO got indicted for tax evasion then would the TdF do anything? Would he be kicked off the tour prior to a conviction? Maybe?? Who knows. But you looking to hold the NFL in some lower light because of their dealings with a player on a CRIMINAL matter, it simply does not hold any water in trying to compare it to an infraction within the sporting guidlines.

Secondly, much of this is going to at least start quickly, unlike many of the charges in the PACMAN Jones cases.

So true. With the season staged to start next month, we should have some sort of an idea of Vick's future very soon. Timing is everything! :D

... Brad