Track Cycling - A good cycle computer for a track bike?

I need a good cycle computer for my track bike. I want it to be small, wireless and with cadence meter. Also not very expensive. Possible?

cadence meter? Just use a target speed instead of cadence.

I guess it really depends how you define cheap. Without cadence you can get it down to $20 or so. WIth you are probably looking at over $100. For anything other than really short intervals heart rate is as important as anything else though so consider getting a cheap hrm too.

Well, yes, I can judge my cadence from speed, so I guess I don't really need it.

I train for sprint, so I don't do long distances.

So, how much is a basic wireless cycle computer? Also, I should be able to put it on my stem (a quill one).

Well, yes, I can judge my cadence from speed, so I guess I don't really need it.

I train for sprint, so I don't do long distances.

So, how much is a basic wireless cycle computer? Also, I should be able to put it on my stem (a quill one).

$20 but you;ll have to figure out how to get it on your stem yourself.

If you want one that's meant to mount on the stem it's going to limit your options a lot.

this will be the last time I tell you this but since you never acknowledged it before I will reiterate:

Track sprinters are born not made. If you are not blessed with the ability to easily add lots of fast twitch muscle trying to become a sprinter is going to be a very frusterating pursuit. Further the extreme specialization of track sprinting will limit your ability to take parts in other aspects of cycling. It's not like road sprinting where you have to train so that you can get through the rest of the race and the wind up before you can sprint.

If you have not been racing I highly suggest you work on a more generalized training program and then see where you should specialize later. I say this both as someone who tried hard to compete in disciplines that didn't suit my body for years and as someone who realizes the limits that sprint training has put on my general riding abilities. I love sprints but they aren't for eveyone.

$20 but you;ll have to figure out how to get it on your stem yourself.

If you want one that's meant to mount on the stem it's going to limit your options a lot.

this will be the last time I tell you this but since you never acknowledged it before I will reiterate:

Track sprinters are born not made. If you are not blessed with the ability to easily add lots of fast twitch muscle trying to become a sprinter is going to be a very frusterating pursuit. Further the extreme specialization of track sprinting will limit your ability to take parts in other aspects of cycling. It's not like road sprinting where you have to train so that you can get through the rest of the race and the wind up before you can sprint.

If you have not been racing I highly suggest you work on a more generalized training program and then see where you should specialize later. I say this both as someone who tried hard to compete in disciplines that didn't suit my body for years and as someone who realizes the limits that sprint training has put on my general riding abilities. I love sprints but they aren't for eveyone.

I see your point. I'm not gonna overdo it, don't worry. I can't do what my body isn't able to. I'm just training for general track cycling, and then if I'm good, I'll train for sprint.

Could you recommend a specific model of a cycle computer that I can put on my stem?

Blackburn Delphi 5.0 Simply amazing wireless computer. Nice big numbers to read, simple to use, and if you want to run cadence it comes with a second harness with the sensor wire to run down your frame.

Ciclosport makes a wired cadence computer for $25 at Nashbar.

Tadashi, I used a computer on my track bike for training, but I found it all but useless. You can't time youself with it because at the start and finish of your efforts you need to hold onto the bars.

You don't care about distance when you're track training.

When you're riding flat out it's all but impossible to read the screen.

And the one thing I really loved waas seeing what top speed I hit, until I realised that if your wheel skips during a 200m effort (which is common on a track bike) your computer can record some mad speeds.

Far better to buy a heartrate watch that links to your computer (try Polar), so you can gauge how well you trained after you finish.

Tadashi, I used a computer on my track bike for training, but I found it all but useless. .

+1

computer on track bike is as useful as an ashtray on a hang glider....

Top speed is not important, but knowing what cadence you are at is invaluable for fine tuning gearing.

I'm a bit worried about my cadence, so that's why I need a speedometer. I guess I'll install a basic wireless cycle computer on my sprinter bike later (when I have money).

I'm a bit worried about my cadence, so that's why I need a speedometer. I guess I'll install a basic wireless cycle computer on my sprinter bike later (when I have money).

Don't get too caught up on what your cadence should be - rather find out what cadence is optimal for you. You've mentioned that you want to be a sprinter - this would imply that you will be pushing a larger gear than average and will probably have a slower cadence than most of the other people at the track.

Don't get too caught up on what your cadence should be - rather find out what cadence is optimal for you. You've mentioned that you want to be a sprinter - this would imply that you will be pushing a larger gear than average and will probably have a slower cadence than most of the other people at the track.

wait, what???

wait, what???

What I mean is that some people get it into their heads that they should be spinning because they heard spinning is more efficient. This may be true, but some people are just better at mashing (like Jan Ullrich). If your faster mashing a high gear at a low cadence than spinning a low gear at a high cadence, which would you choose?

What I also mean is that Tadashi has stated that he wants to be a sprinter and most sprinters run a higher gearing on the track. This means that during a race, before the sprint, you're going to have a lower cadence.

What I mean is that some people get it into their heads that they should be spinning because they heard spinning is more efficient. This may be true, but some people are just better at mashing (like Jan Ullrich). If your faster mashing a high gear at a low cadence than spinning a low gear at a high cadence, which would you choose?

What I also mean is that Tadashi has stated that he wants to be a sprinter and most sprinters run a higher gearing on the track. This means that during a race, before the sprint, you're going to have a lower cadence.

While some sprinters may choose a higher gear for a scratch race since they'll just be sitting in till the final sprint I don't think that's general practice. More importantly track sprinters more then any other cyclists have absurd spins. Leg speed is just as important as strength since a gear that will allow you to jump from a trackstand is going to require ridiculous cadence to get up to 40. Anyway sprinters don't train much for the sitting in part. They train to sprint. And that training needs to include a lot of work on leg speed.

While some sprinters may choose a higher gear for a scratch race since they'll just be sitting in till the final sprint I don't think that's general practice. More importantly track sprinters more then any other cyclists have absurd spins. Leg speed is just as important as strength since a gear that will allow you to jump from a trackstand is going to require ridiculous cadence to get up to 40. Anyway sprinters don't train much for the sitting in part. They train to sprint. And that training needs to include a lot of work on leg speed.

I completely agree with you. And yes, sprinters are going to need a high cadence in a high gear.

However I think my main point still stand - figure out what cadence works for you (if you are most efficient at 60 rpms then gear your bike accordingly, don't spin at 90 rpms because you're "supposed to").

I'm not saying cadence is unimportant or that Tadashi should work on spinning at high rpms - I'm just saying don't get hung up on it.

Edited because I know you are going to take what I said out of context and I really don't feel like arguing over absolutely nothing anymore.

I completely agree with you. And yes, sprinters are going to need a high cadence in a high gear.

However I think my main point still stand - figure out what cadence works for you (if you are most efficient at 60 rpms then gear your bike accordingly, don't spin at 90 rpms because you're "supposed to").

I'm not saying cadence is unimportant or that Tadashi should work on spinning at high rpms - I'm just saying don't get hung up on it.

Edited because I know you are going to take what I said out of context and I really don't feel like arguing over absolutely nothing anymore.

whatever no matter what you are doing anyone who has only been cycling for a few months like the op needs to be working on cadence if they want to be competetive. Maybe if you have been a serious cyclist for decades you can say 60rpms is the way I roll but anyone just starting out should work develop better technique and part of that is focusing on cadence.

The fact that you would suggest someone with aspirations of being a sprinter need not work on cadence is just mind boggling. Forget 60 vs 90 rpms sprinters need to be thinking about 130 vs 150rpms. You can't change gears in the middle of a race on the track so you need to technique that gives you an incredibly wide power band.

Hey guys, I was at Seibuen Velodrome yesterday. I trained with keirin guys on my keirin bike. I was spinning 50/16 and they said that it's recommended for a novice. The guy said he's warming up on 46/14 for 20 laps (each lap is 400m). At the end of the day I said that I still have a lot of stamina, so he stopped me, took out a a large truck tire from the middle of the track, attached it via a rope to my seat post and said "ride then". I managed to do 2 laps with it. He said that the tire is 10 kg (22lbs) and people train 20 laps with it. Some attach even 2 tires. He told me lots about training. He suggested that I go to mountains and train climbing (in high gear!). He suggested that I put some heavy stuff in my backpack and ride with it and so on. So, I guess this is the Japanese way of training. Anyway, in 3 days there will be kind of teaching seminar at the other velodrome, aimed at novices who want to become keirin racers. I'll attend it and they'll teach me basics and all. This stuff is gonna be hard.

So, on topic. I saw cycle computers on some of the bikes. But now I don't see the point of it. If I'm gonna climb steep hills in high gear, pull truck tires, ride with barbells in my backback and torture myself in other ways, then the cadence is not important.

cadence meter? Just use a target speed instead of cadence.

I guess it really depends how you define cheap. Without cadence you can get it down to $20 or so. WIth you are probably looking at over $100. For anything other than really short intervals heart rate is as important as anything else though so consider getting a cheap hrm too.

False.

DB4LW-C with cadence $25 CAD at MEC.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442617467&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302693003

Hey guys, I was at Seibuen Velodrome yesterday. I trained with keirin guys on my keirin bike. I was spinning 50/16 and they said that it's recommended for a novice. The guy said he's warming up on 46/14 for 20 laps (each lap is 400m). At the end of the day I said that I still have a lot of stamina, so he stopped me, took out a a large truck tire from the middle of the track, attached it via a rope to my seat post and said "ride then". I managed to do 2 laps with it. He said that the tire is 10 kg (22lbs) and people train 20 laps with it. Some attach even 2 tires. He told me lots about training. He suggested that I go to mountains and train climbing (in high gear!). He suggested that I put some heavy stuff in my backpack and ride with it and so on. So, I guess this is the Japanese way of training. Anyway, in 3 days there will be kind of teaching seminar at the other velodrome, aimed at novices who want to become keirin racers. I'll attend it and they'll teach me basics and all. This stuff is gonna be hard.

So, on topic. I saw cycle computers on some of the bikes. But now I don't see the point of it. If I'm gonna climb steep hills in high gear, pull truck tires, ride with barbells in my backback and torture myself in other ways, then the cadence is not important.


Tadashi, don't overdo the training. You'll feel good for the first few weeks of hard training, but then it hits you.

The stuff you've been doing is 1970s style training. But it won't hurt you unless you do too much.

Actually, the one of the guys who won Olympic gold at the Sydney Games trained with a backpack with bricks in it when he was young. BUT, the other thing he did was buy a heart rate monitor - even before he had a good bike, to make sure he was training at the right level every day.

+1

computer on track bike is as useful as an ashtray on a hang glider....

+1 And who hasn't wanted to smoke while they're hang gliding.



For general types of training you're better to have a meter that is out of sight and can be downloaded after to analyse what you have been doing rather than riding around trying to make the numbers move to were you think they should be.

Reading a meter is an instant gratification thang and won't really detect if your training is effective, you can easily deceive yourself.

Tadashi, don't overdo the training. You'll feel good for the first few weeks of hard training, but then it hits you.

The stuff you've been doing is 1970s style training. But it won't hurt you unless you do too much.

Actually, the one of the guys who won Olympic gold at the Sydney Games trained with a backpack with bricks in it when he was young. BUT, the other thing he did was buy a heart rate monitor - even before he had a good bike, to make sure he was training at the right level every day.

Thanks for the information. It's very interesting. I almost thought that the Japanese developed all these types of hard training.

Anyway, since I want to train for keirin, I'll have to follow this style of training. I rode 80km (50 miles) today with a 5kg (11lbs) barbell in my backpack on a 48/17 gear (my keirin bike awaits clincher training wheels, so I rode another one). It was ok. The summer heat and strong wind were a bit annoying, but not that much. The gear is low, I guess, I'll change it for 48/16. The weight is ok, hills got hard. But in around a month, I think I'll put 22lbs in my backpack.

I'm planning to ride 25 miles (maybe more, but I think it's better to take it easy in the beginning) with 11lbs in my back pack on the same gear tomorrow. Have to train everyday. Gonna train hard.

Yes, since I don't need a cycle computer now (I guess), I'll buy a heart rate monitor. It should be very valuable for this kind of training. Any suggestions on which one to get?

whatever no matter what you are doing anyone who has only been cycling for a few months like the op needs to be working on cadence if they want to be competetive. Maybe if you have been a serious cyclist for decades you can say 60rpms is the way I roll but anyone just starting out should work develop better technique and part of that is focusing on cadence.


You're absolutely right. I wasn't thinking about how new Tadashi was to track racing, and now is a good time to get into good habits and working on cadence is important to that.



The fact that you would suggest someone with aspirations of being a sprinter need not work on cadence is just mind boggling. Forget 60 vs 90 rpms sprinters need to be thinking about 130 vs 150rpms. You can't change gears in the middle of a race on the track so you need to technique that gives you an incredibly wide power band.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never suggested he not work on cadence. I just said don't get hung up on it. A lot of this was in reference to another post in this thread in which someone said that top speed isn't important, cadence is (with regards to a cycle computer). Now of course this doesn't matter much for a track bike since cadence and speed are directly tied to each other, and in general if you are trying to figure out your optimal gearing and you are faster in one configuration than another, you'll probably want to use that over a gearing that puts you in the "right" cadence.

That's really all I meant. But if it will make you happier (since I'm sure you've pretty much ignored everything else I've said in this post): YOU ARE RIGHT AND I AM WRONG.

So, on topic. I saw cycle computers on some of the bikes. But now I don't see the point of it. If I'm gonna climb steep hills in high gear, pull truck tires, ride with barbells in my backback and torture myself in other ways, then the cadence is not important.

All of these things will make you a lot stronger but they won't necessarily make you faster or a better sprinter. I'm not saying don't do them but you should also work on things like riding at a moderate pace for a few minutes and then sprinting really hard for a few seconds, then go back to riding at a moderate pace. Repeat this a few times.

You'll definitely need strong legs in order to sprint, but you also need to have very quick reaction time and acceleration (which is tied to cadence). Make sure you train for that as well.

I'm planning to ride 25 miles (maybe more, but I think it's better to take it easy in the beginning) with 11lbs in my back pack on the same gear tomorrow. Have to train everyday. Gonna train hard.

Yes, since I don't need a cycle computer now (I guess), I'll buy a heart rate monitor. It should be very valuable for this kind of training. Any suggestions on which one to get?

Since you're just starting out, you should probably focus on building base before you start with your strength training. A lot of the keirin guys you're riding with have spent the entire winter on rollers, so doing their workouts without the solid aerobic system to back it up won't be beneficial to you. Go on long rides (2+ hrs) and focus on keeping aerobic the entire time.

Try starting a periodic training plan, like the one outlined here (http://www.ultracycling.com/training/training_with_purpose.html). There are several other plans out there if you hunt around for them. The big thing is to have a micro-cycle for your weekly training and a macro-cycle for your season.

I've found a cyclocomputer with cadence is beneficial when doing roller training. There are many cadence drills you can do with your track bike and the rollers. Having that metric makes things easier for focusing your workouts.

[QUOTE=Tadashi;4993399
Anyway, since I want to train for keirin, I'll have to follow this style of training.

Have to train everyday. Gonna train hard.
[/QUOTE]

no you don't. Just because you may have to ride a bike that's stuck in the past doesn't mean you have to train as though you were too. If you train smart you'll get to that 12s qualifying mark a lot faster then if you train dumb and hard. That means forgetting all the traditional crap that doesn't make sense and learning how modern sprinters train.

-20-30min efforts pulling a tire around a track are not going to make you a good sprinter.
-weighted high gear riding in the mountains is a recipe for injury. It's also not very effective. Your muscles will quickly get exhausted so you won't be gaining strength as fast as you could and the super low cadence will shift work away from your cardiovascular system and prevent it from getting it's maximum work out.
-instead you should be thinking about what you need to win keirins(a 200 time for starters) and then thinking about how to train those systems specifically.
-REST DAYS and light days are an integral part of a training regimen. If you don't recover you won't get the maximum benefit out of the days you do work hard.

If you do want to train smart and not just play around go to fixedgearfever.com. There is much more training advice there from people far more knowledgeable then I.

If this is really how keirin racers train and not just a show for the noobs or gaijin I think this might be a good addition to the list of why japanese sprinters aren't competitive internationally.

[QUOTE=Tadashi;4993399
Anyway, since I want to train for keirin, I'll have to follow this style of training.

Have to train everyday. Gonna train hard.
[/QUOTE]

no you don't. Just because you may have to ride a bike that's stuck in the past doesn't mean you have to train as though you were too. If you train smart you'll get to that 12s qualifying mark a lot faster then if you train dumb and hard. That means forgetting all the traditional crap that doesn't make sense and learning how modern sprinters train.

-20-30min efforts pulling a tire around a track are not going to make you a good sprinter.
-weighted high gear riding in the mountains is a recipe for injury. It's also not very effective. Your muscles will quickly get exhausted so you won't be gaining strength as fast as you could and the super low cadence will shift work away from your cardiovascular system and prevent it from getting it's maximum work out.
-instead you should be thinking about what you need to win keirins(a 200 time for starters) and then thinking about how to train those systems specifically.
-REST DAYS and light days are an integral part of a training regimen. If you don't recover you won't get the maximum benefit out of the days you do work hard.

If you do want to train smart and not just play around go to fixedgearfever.com. There is much more training advice there from people far more knowledgeable then I.

If this is really how keirin racers train and not just a show for the noobs or gaijin I think this might be a good addition to the list of why japanese sprinters aren't competitive internationally.

I think that one thing that should be said is this:

If you are having fun, then keep doing it. We can spend the next week arguing over the best way to train, how important cadence is, etc. but at the end of the day, if you aren't having fun, what's the point?

I see your point. This kind of training is hard and all, but this is how they do it here. I'll be attending training seminars for novices here, so I guess they'll give me the same kind of training plan. I have no choice.

how do you have no choice?

You can go to the track and do as little of the bull**** as you have to get track experience and then craft a modern training regimen around it.

Your choice is "Do I want to be the best sprinter that I can be(or possibly race some other discipline in the likely event I'm not a sprinter) or do I want to play at some orientalist karate kid on track bikes game?" Not that the later doesn't sound like a blast but you do have a choice to make. Understand your options then make a choice!

No.

You see, I want to become a keirin racer. I love this sport, and I'll damn regret it if I won't try hard for it. So I can't question the training. They say - I do. No other way around it.

If I'm gonna question it, then I'd better look for carbon rig with disk wheels. You see what I mean?

No.

You see, I want to become a keirin racer.

So this doesn't mean you want to win keirins but rather that you want to play out some orientalist fantasy of "keirin racer".



I love this sport
The sport not being keirin racing which takes place inside and outside japan but rather the anachronistic ideal of japanese keirin racer you have created.



, and I'll damn regret it if I won't try hard for it.

try hard not meaning doing everything you can to do as well as you can at racing keirins but rather trying hard at living out your fantasy of the "keirin racer".



So I can't question the training. They say - I do. No other way around it.
No especially not now that you know the crazy methods they employ. I mean it's right out of one of the third rate anime series that seem to have fostered so many japanophiles orinalist urges. Questioning the ancient techniques would clearly bring the whole fantasy crumbling down.




If I'm gonna question it, then I'd better look for carbon rig with disk wheels.

Keirin racers love a carbon rig and disk wheels. The japanese ones don't have them yet because they are forced to comply to outdated equipment standards. As I said before just because you are stuck on an outdated bike doesn't mean you have to train with outdated methods.





You see what I mean?

Yes I see exactly what you mean. You have already made a decision on the question I proposed in my last post. I'm not trying to be hard on you just make it crystal clear what you are doing.

The Japanese keirin and international keirin are two different things. I've no interest in UCI stuff.

I'm going to stick up for Tadashi's choice here. Dutret, everything you've said is correct, but, Japan is a rigid place. They make the rules, you follow them. Take sumo for instance. The Russian sumo guys are much smarter at training, and rise to the top very quickly. But they missed the "experience" that comes with knowing the system. And in some circumstances that hurts them.

Training to be a keirin rider via Japan's antiquated system means getting where you want to go a little slower, but learning a lot about Japan on the way.

At the keirin school the riders are taught kendo (a martial art played with bamboo poles) which no other country would do. And yet maybe there's something good making giving young riders' bodies do a different activity. They also have to know how to assemble their bicycle. Doesn't make you faster - but it's a good skill to have.

I noticed that today was the first day of the junior world track championships - and a Japanese rider rode the fastest 200m in the qualifying for the Omnium - 10.6. I wonder if he trained traditionally?

The Japanese keirin and international keirin are two different things. I've no interest in UCI stuff.

When it comes to the type of strength you need they aren't very different.

Japan is a rigid place. They make the rules, you follow them.

Training to be a keirin rider via Japan's antiquated system means getting where you want to go a little slower, but learning a lot about Japan on the way.

Or in tadashi's case likely not getting there at all either because he'll suffer repeated injury or because he'll never reach his potential and give up. Which is fine of course if the journey is what interests him not actually racing.

Yes japan is rigid but that in no way means that tadashi is going to benefit fitness wise by carrying weights up mountains. There is no reason why he can't when away from the track he can't do modern sprint oriented training as I already pointed out. As far as I can tell he's not in keirin camp yet just went to some introductory thing and is doing unsupervised training. Since he probably isn't a sprinter by nature it's likely the only way he will ever get fast enough to qualify. It may not be his fantasy but if he actually wants to race why shouldn't he go about it that way.

As I said before... If he wants to play at some fantasy he is going about it right and will probably have a greattime till he gets bored, injured or discouraged. If he wants to actually race why bother with all the dangerous wacky stunts instead of effective training.

I wonder if somewhere out on the internet right now there's a forum thread going on in Japanese where some young guy hanging out in the US with too much time and money on his hands decided like a month ago he wants to be a pro basketball player and is declaring how much he loves the sport, doesn't care about the international forms of the game where the US gets killed because they play a stylized version, and is asking a bunch of people who sit around on computers all day for training and gear tips.

Ok, now that I've made fun of the OP, let's get down to business. Are you already in garden-variety excellent physical condition? I'm talking resting heart rate below normal, body fat near the 10% mark, mile in the low 6's is no problem, 200 crunches don't make you sore the next day, etc... Since it sounds like you've never trained for a sport before, I'm guessing not, as most people who are this fit have at one point or another done so. Forget all this event- and even sport-specific noise and get to that point first before you start getting excited about becoming a professional athlete. Get yourself a jump rope, some good cross training shoes, some information on basic stretching, and an alarm clock, and put yourself on 60-90 minute two-a-days for about a month. Don't overtrain, just get fit without getting hurt.

I think everyone's in agreement that pulling around tires and weighting down your backpack isn't the best training regimen. However.......

How about doing some training on a bike that's on the heavy side???? For example, if the bike you normally race on is, say, 18lbs., wouldn't it be......good(...??????) to train sometimes on a bike that weighs, say 25 lbs.????

Good idea, or not??????????

OK Yoshi, it's been 6 months so how's the training going?

Just a note on track racing and cadence: you need to pedal as fast as you need to pedal. Sounds basic, but... sometime riders come off the track citing 'I chose the wrong gear for ... blah blah blah'. Everyone makes mistakes with their gearing.

Its a fixed gear so you need to know how to sprint to win at 150rpm+ when you are under-geared and you also need to know how to tough it out to win when you're stupid enough to be over-geared or overweight. Both require a different way of applying power, but you (ie your legs and nervous system) need to know how to do both.

So that's where riding rollers, riding unloaded trainers, spinning downhill, spinning on the flat, grinding uphill, and playing with bricks come from. Simple, effective training from the 50's, 60's, and 70's.

The Union XT HRM has wired speed and wireless cadence at a reasonable price. Union XW HRM has no cadence but has no wires either as the speed sensor is wireless. Even cheaper.