Road Cycling - Are we hypocrites?

Hi all,

I always see posts complaining about cars not following the rules of the road and endangering cyclists, and agree.

However, sometimes it appears we endanger ourselves.

Laws in most states say on a 2 lane road the cyclist has to stay as far right as is safe. Many states specifically prohibit riding abreast in such situations.

Then I also see people posting pictures or descriptions of large packs of cyclists operating on two lane public roads. Some of these packs of cyclists are hundreds of yards long, all but prohibiting people from passing.

For example, would the accident where the old guy in florida ran over all those people have been as bad if they were following the laws and staying right in a single file line? They would maybe have been more able to see the guy coming or avoid him if not in a tight pack? (not blaming them for the accident, just wondering if the impact could have been minimized by more defensive cycling?)

Now, I have never ridden in a big group like that and may find myself doing the same thing in the future, but is it really that common to do a pack like that instead of single file on the road like the law says? It seems somewhat insensitive to do that on a 2 lane road especially a rural highway where the cyclists can't get anywhere near to going the speed limit.
(what the annoying illinois leader lady may have been complaining about. If it was a big pack on a rural road, she has a right to complain, she just used a too wide brush and condemmned all cyclist for the bad behavior of a few.)

However, if you can go the speed limit, I think it is legal to take the whole lane and ride abreast pretty much wherever. (this may be the case for the loop another member does around the rose bowl.)

I really don't know what to think here, any input?

take care,

Steve

Single file makes sense to me - doesn't hold up the traffic, and it gives the rider some place to go if they encounter potholes, glass, etc.

life is full is inherint inequities. however, i know that you can't be serious when you say that the accident in fla. wouldn't have been as bad if....

who are you crapping? the driver should never have his auto in any position to even come close to causing an accident. does he ram the car in front of him for going below the speed limit? while cars do have the right to the road, they aren't the sole proprietors of the road. did the car need to pass at that moment? if it was unsafe to him, the other people in the car (if any) or in this case the cyclists he mowed down, then NO!

cars do crazy things while in traffic. they cut each other off, they tailgate, they take chances that endanger others.

when you see any pedestrian, weather on foot or on bike, it is clear that the driver needs to alter his behavior to avoid conflict.

Many states allow riding two abreast, but no more. Don't forget, that under the uniform vehicle code, bikes are considered a vehicle, and have full road rights.

The Florida driver crossed over the line to hit the riders. Had it been a school bus full of kids, with a professional driver at the wheel, the carnage could have been just as bad or worse.

Check out many state laws about bicycles here: http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/

Know the laws of your area, and ride smart.

Yes, I'm a total hypocrit. I gawk at motorists who don't obey traffic laws, yet, I do the same when I'm on my bike. Yes, I am ashamed of myself. Please help me.

originally posted by RiphRaph
life is full is inherint inequities. however, i know that you can't be serious when you say that the accident in fla. wouldn't have been as bad if....


I in no way excuse the driver, he was in the wrong and the accident was his fault. 100% he screwed up.

However, if people were in single file, would less have been hit? If it is illegal in FLA not to ride in single file would there have been contributory negligence on their part? As cyclists we can't go around breaking laws and expect there to be no consequences for us, but consequences for others, can we? If riding in a pack makes us less safe AND breaks the law, why is it done?

Oh well, I really did want to just discuss this, but apparently if you put the least bit of light on to the cyclist half of the safety equation the discussion seems to degrade quickly.

take care,

Jester

P.S. I am 100% in the cyclist category, I have cyclist rights bumper stickers on my car, but am wondering how much do we do our part to be responsible and legal road users. We often make fun of the DUI birds riding the wrong way, but how often do supposedly experienced and knowledgeable cyclists run afoul of what is correct? Not for increasing our safety, but because breaking the law and making things less safe makes our ride more enjoyable or more productive from a training standpoint. I only point out the pack thing as it is something that has come up 3 times recently on this board (the Illinois leader article, the florida accident, and the pack photo) where at first glance it would seem that we are not keeping up our end of the safety equation to some degree. I am hoping for someone to point out logically why my first glance observation is incorrect. I want to know why I am wrong. I am not pointing fingers at others, I will likely be doing group and racing training rides in the future and might end up in a pack.

I know the law states that we can share the road, and we need to pay attention & observe the rules/laws as well. I prefer, and I think a lot of us do, to have areas designated for just cyclists/runners/walkers that are dedicated just for that purpose. It is always in the back of my mind, the dangers of riding with traffic.

I feel safer running, since I don't have to depend on drivers behind me watching what they are doing. Without a doubt, we need more trails/roads dedicated to those of us, who want to ride in comfor, and feel safe. Just recently I understand our State government is pulling all of the funds away from just this, since they are in financial binds. We all know how much better it is for the environment, our health, not to mention less injuries due to etc.
I guess it goes back to where society places there priorities.

Sometimes riders just have to ride next to each other no matter what,safe or unsafe.I cant tell you how many times i ride on the divided bike path and a set of riders coming towards me,just has to ride next to his buddy,over the line on my side.Does he at least drop back behind his buddy to get out of my lane,75% of the time,hell no and i have to move as far left as i can.Brains are hard to use sometimes.

i think that what you're trying to get at is that the "motorist runs over cyclist" issue is being blown out of proportion, automatically assigning guilt to the motorist and discarding any possible mistake that the cyclist might have made...

yes, it's a valid issue. there are many dumbasses out there who give cyclists a bad name. a motorist who turns right without checking for bikes is not as bad as the moron i saw this morning riding on the shoulder against traffic on a one-way.

the fact that we spend all day badmouthing motorists overshadows the fact that the distribution of idiots within the two communities is pretty even.

YEP

With the Fla situation it is easy to point out who was "right" and who was "wrong", but I would rather be alive and wrong, than dead and right. I always stay to the right.

Personally I have no problem sleeping at night. I know that I am a safe driver that respects other drivers, whether they be operating a bicycle, motorcycle, car, truck, or SUV.

Well, maybe not an SUV. :)

Yes, sometimes we are hypocrites, but then, I'm not a perfect person. Your question of whether the cyclists in Florida would have had a better chance of surviving is a valid safety question. If riding in single file, they might have been able to quickly get off the road on the right side, but, then again, we don't know if that was physically impossible or not, due to some kind of physical barrier.