Foo - VW Rabbit & Toyota Matrix

Their was a thread on here a week ago or so re buying a new car to transport bikes around.

What is everybody's experience with the latest VW Rabbits...? Thinking 4-Door......

Option #2 is an '07 Toyota Matrix.....

Reliability, fuel milage, interior room for bikes, etc.. Bear in mind the VW dealer is 1.5 hrs away, so reliability,dependability is important.

Reliability/dependability with VW's has been pretty poor lately. Next year, you could probably get a TDI in the VW for excellent fuel economy. I saw a recent article that says that the TDI (diesel) engine option boosts the resale value more than the additional sticker price.

I'm not very impressed with the cost of ownership on my VW. With that said, if you want bling go with the VW, if you want lower costs and reliable get the Toyota.

Have you checked to see if you can fit a bike in the back seat of either? Even if you have a bike rack you may need to do that in a pinch some day.

anyone here remember the VW Jetta Trek that was released in the 1996 model year, that came factory with a roof rack and a Trek bike? i don't remember what type of Trek it was, but i thought it was a great idea...

A friend of mine has a Golf hatchback (predecessor to the Rabbit) and it is a great car. She has had no problems with hers, and it easily holds her bike (front wheel removed) and lots of gear. Also gets great mileage. However, Consumer Reports and other sources generally give VWs poor marks for reliability and service in recent years. Too bad because in many respects they are very well designed.

If considering, I would hold out for the diesel version when they start importing again. They will be very low emissions with mileage comparable to hybrids. Perhaps VW will get their act together by then.

Have you also looked at the Honda Fit? Another friend of mine has a Fit, and I have been very impressed with it. Lots of room for a bike (front wheel removed) and legendary Honda quality and reliability.

I agree with most here, get the Toyota, VW's have a poor record for quality and reliability.

The Boy and I have been test driving various candidates for our next lease. It was down to the VW Rabbit (corners like it's on RAILS!) and the Toyota Matrix. We decided on the Matrix after looking at the resale value of 2003 models - they are really holding their value. Since we plan to buy out and re-sell at the end of the lease this made a big difference. The Matrix was also significantly cheaper.

We should get the new car next week, yay!

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j59/gorideabike/miscellaneous/2007MkVGTI.jpg

Go with the GTI - it's the souped up version of the Rabbit. :) Both have options to mount a roof-rack to carry your bike. Personally, I'm looking to add a tow-hitch to haul my motorcycle. And VWs - German cars in general - are more solidly than Japanese or American cars.

I agree with most here, get the Toyota, VW's have a poor record for quality and reliability.

Full disclosure: we've got a jetta vr6.

The jetta's been a super fun car. For daily drivers, vw's really do have some extra soul or something that make them a true pleasure to drive.

That said, when it comes time to buy another car, I can't justify buying another vw or audi. Their dealer network and parts engineering are simply terrible. Minor failures in parts that cost cents can only be repaired with kits that cost hundreds of dollars, as seen in the window regulators clips (need to replace whole window motor - $700 with labor) or the ignition coils/packs (plastic housing cracks, causing misfires in wet weather - also around $700 with labor). Add in crooked dealers that put the responsibility on consumers to determine what's still under warranty and what isn't (their philosophy really is to charge you unless confronted with evidence), and it's just a bad ownership experience.

Yes, you could invest more time to get the same fixes cheaper, but the standard joe blow vw owner has to spend way too much to keep their car running.

Executive summary: I'd lease a GTI. I'd buy the Toyota.

I can't justify buying another vw or audi. Their dealer network and parts engineering are simply terrible. ... Add in crooked dealers that put the responsibility on consumers to determine what's still under warranty and what isn't (their philosophy really is to charge you unless confronted with evidence), and it's just a bad ownership experience.
I think it's the latter on your part. I've had no dealer problems at all. The A/C bolt wasn't mounted correctly at the factory and the dealer replaced it. Later on the valve for the A/C clogged and they replaced the entire unit. Then one of my wireless keys started to malfunction and they replaced it. They also upgraded the engine software. My dealer informed me that everything was under warranty and I paid nothing. They even paid for a rental car while my GTI was in the shop. Maybe you just got unlucky with a certain dealer. However, since you are in the VW database, you can go anywhere in the US to get your car fixed. Have you tried another dealer?

My other friends drive Jettas and they love it. I think you just had a bad experience with VW's.

I think it's the latter on your part. I've had no dealer problems at all. The A/C bolt wasn't mounted correctly at the factory and the dealer replaced it. Later on the valve for the A/C clogged and they replaced the entire unit. Then one of my wireless keys started to malfunction and they replaced it. They also upgraded the engine software. My dealer informed me that everything was under warranty and I paid nothing. They even paid for a rental car while my GTI was in the shop. Maybe you just got unlucky with a certain dealer. However, since you are in the VW database, you can go anywhere in the US to get your car fixed. Have you tried another dealer?

My other friends drive Jettas and they love it. I think you just had a bad experience with VW's.

I've actually had a really good experience with VW, considering what others have gone through (ask anyone who had ignition coils instead of the packs. Those would go out in weeks or months). And it's not just one dealer. I've moved around a lot, and have personal experience with dealers in and around LA, San Diego, Chicago, and now the bay area. Yes, there were a few good ones in there, but plenty of bad ones, too.

The point is that for cars that need to visit shops this often (and VW's do), their dealer network needs to be consistently good - and it's fairly characterized as spotty, at best. Further - why do have so many visits to the shop in the first place? A decently designed car wouldn't require me to have this much experience with this many service departments, some of whom either deliberately neglect to tell customers about things that are covered, or are ignorant of warranty changes from VWoA (see window regulators).

Like I said, I LIKE the car (heck, I even lust after the new GTI), but there's no way I'd buy another product from them. They're fun, but also finicky, high-maintenance, and expensive to own relative to other cars in their class.

Like I said, I LIKE the car (heck, I even lust after the new GTI), but there's no way I'd buy another product from them. They're fun, but also finicky, high-maintenance, and expensive to own relative to other cars in their class.
Are we still talking about cars or women? :D

Get the Matrix. Or, the Pontiac Vibe is the same thing. If you look underneath, "Toyota" is stamped into the muffler.

I've got a three year old Vibe (same exact car as Matrix, except for grill, roof rails, and tail lights).

Gets great mileage (average 30-31 mpg in stop/go/stop Chicago suburban traffic)
With seats folded down, can fit my 58 cm road bike in the back w/o removing wheels
No reliability problems going on 70,000 miles.
It's not the fastest car and does not like to race off the line, but if you are willing to accelerate at a sane pace, then it's alright. That said, it can be peppy when in the passing lane.

I'd probably not have bought a Pontiac if wasn't really just a Toyota.

I have a 2002 VW Gti, my girlfriend has a new VW Rabbit. Both are fun cars do drive and fit bikes in really nicely. I think the VW is a funner car to drive but in terms of customer service and care the Matrix is more reliable. My friend who bikes as well has a Matrix his brother has a Rabbit. Likes the VW for performance.

One of the engineers at work bought what I think is a Mazda 3. It's a 4 door, and the body reminds me of a PT cruiser. You might look into that. It's got quite a bit of power, and is about the size of the rabbit.

One of the engineers at work bought what I think is a Mazda 3. It's a 4 door, and the body reminds me of a PT cruiser. You might look into that. It's got quite a bit of power, and is about the size of the rabbit.


I got one.. Its got nice power, great handling and drives zippy ( well a manual ). You can get a fully loaded one for under 20K. Flip side I get only about 25MPG city, 30MPG hwy.. But that could just be how I drive ;)

I just picked up a Toyota Matrix last month. I'm very happy with it. I'm hitting about 36mpg driving 75mph down the free way and still hit around 30mpg in town (stop/go) IF I keep my foot out of it. If I zip I'm more like 28mpg. I looked at the rabbit as well and did like it but the lack of room and my buddy having a s-load of problems with his put me off.

Best of all, I can drop the seat and put any one of bikes in the rear with out any problems. lol.

http://www.5point7.com/1/matrix1.jpg

http://www.5point7.com/1/matrix2.jpg


Hope this helps.

I would take a look at the Honda Fit.

I've seen it in action, and it looks like a spectacular little car.

HAD both.. sold cars too, If you want a car made in the USA which has Japan made parts and domestically made as well that statiscally goes a quarter of a million miles with few problems.. get the Toyota. However If you want a car that is inferior in every way, made in Mexico, has the poorest repair record in the industry but pose's real nice, you ought to consider the VW.

HAD both.. sold cars too, If you want a car made in the USA which has Japan made parts and domestically made as well that statiscally goes a quarter of a million miles with few problems.. get the Toyota. However If you want a car that is inferior in every way, made in Mexico, has the poorest repair record in the industry but pose's real nice, you ought to consider the VW.

Well put! Couldn't have said it better.
And this coming from a guy who's owned a watercooled VW of some sort since since 1984.
1982 VW Derby (while living in Germany)
1984 Rabbit GTI
1987 Golf GTI
1992 Corrado G60
1993 Corrado VR6
2000 Passat

The only one of these that wasn't built in Germany was the '87 GTI and it happened to have the worst reliability record with me.
I picked VW's simply because of the intangible qualities like feel and style but there is no way I could argue on the basis of reliability.

I would pick the Matrix over the Rabbit anyday or go for the slightly less expensive Vibe since it's mechanically identical.

I got one.. Its got nice power, great handling and drives zippy ( well a manual ). You can get a fully loaded one for under 20K. Flip side I get only about 25MPG city, 30MPG hwy.. But that could just be how I drive ;)

It's probably how you drive. That car looks really great. The engineer has the 6 speed manual transmission, and 3rd gear in that thing is just fantastic. This guy races it where ever he goes, and I can't blame him, it must be tempting.

I own a 2005 Matrix. Love it! I've had no problems with it to date. I installed a Class 1 hitch and bought a Thule Hitch Bike Rack. You're only supposed to carry 2 bikes on a class 1 hitch, however it nicely carries 4 ... as long as you don't hit any big bumps. I like the fact that both back seats plus the front passenger side seat folds down flat allowing you to carry a lot of cargo (I've fit 2 adult size mountain bikes in the back.

BTW, the Matrix is made in our Cambridge, Ontario plant which has an excellent quality control record.

Just slightly off topic: are the Rabbit and the Golf the same thing? I've never heard of VW Rabbit where I grew up in Europe.

My 2 cents - get the Toyota. I have a Prius 2005 and so far am very happy with it. I haven't bothered with a bike rack since I can drop the back seats and fit my bike in there. That way mileage stays normal.

Just slightly off topic: are the Rabbit and the Golf the same thing? I've never heard of VW Rabbit where I grew up in Europe.

My 2 cents - get the Toyota. I have a Prius 2005 and so far am very happy with it. I haven't bothered with a bike rack since I can drop the back seats and fit my bike in there. That way mileage stays normal.

The Rabbit and the Golf are different models, built using different design philosophies.

Golf: Sporty, lightweight compact car with reasonable fuel mileage and a relatively low price compared to cars with similar performance.

Rabbit: Essentially a barebones compact car, and although very inexpensive, is rather durable and economic.

This is a present description of these cars.

During the 70's and 80's, they were the same model. The Golf Mark 1 was sold in Europe, and it was also exported to North America as the Rabbit Mark 1.

One of the engineers at work bought what I think is a Mazda 3. It's a 4 door, and the body reminds me of a PT cruiser. You might look into that. It's got quite a bit of power, and is about the size of the rabbit.I think what you're talking about is probably a Mazda5, if it made you think of PT Cruiser. The Mazda3 is a very cute little car, though.

Just slightly off topic: are the Rabbit and the Golf the same thing? I've never heard of VW Rabbit where I grew up in Europe.

My 2 cents - get the Toyota. I have a Prius 2005 and so far am very happy with it. I haven't bothered with a bike rack since I can drop the back seats and fit my bike in there. That way mileage stays normal.

Jaa, they are the same car. When the Golf came out in Europe in the 1970's it was re-badged the Rabbit for the North American market. The Golf II, Golf III, and Golf IV were all sold as simply 'Golf' in both Europe and North America. The Golf V has been re-branded as the Rabbit again for the North American market.

BTW, the Matrix is made in our Cambridge, Ontario plant which has an excellent quality control record.

The Canadian manufacture was a BIG part of our decision to go with the Matrix.

Wait for March 2008, for the Jetta SportWagon TDI.

I've heard 40's city, somewhere between 50-60 highway is what they're expecting for the EPA rating.

The Rabbit is built in Germany, FWIW. The Jetta and SportWagon are built in Mexico. However, they're the same car - just the Rabbit is a hatchback, the Jetta is a sedan, and the Jetta SportWagon is a wagon. ;)

You must stay RIGHT on top of the maintenance, but if you do so, the diesels will reward you with a very long life. Don't maintain it properly, and it'll be your worst nightmare. The DSG automatic isn't proven, and has expensive maintenance, so stick with a manual - it has better fuel economy potential anyway, despite what the EPA says.

DO NOT go to the dealer for maintenance, whatever you do. Oil changes, do yourself using only the VW approved oils. Other maintenance, if you don't feel comfortable doing it, find a TDI expert. Actually, look around on TDIClub.com.

why do have so many visits to the shop in the first place? A decently designed car wouldn't require me to have this much experience with this many service departments, some of whom either deliberately neglect to tell customers about things that are covered, or are ignorant of warranty changes from VWoA (see window regulators).

Like I said, I LIKE the car (heck, I even lust after the new GTI), but there's no way I'd buy another product from them. They're fun, but also finicky, high-maintenance, and expensive to own relative to other cars in their class.

We have an (almost) eight year old civic. I have changed the tires, changed the oil and brakes. Changed the coolant and added windshield washer fluid.

I have NOT changed any mechanical parts or lightbulbs. Basically I've done the routine maintenance and nothing else.

Would I buy another Honda? Yep, considering the fit :D - drove one and they're huge inside and well thought out.

+1 on Toyota.

I feel bad by not buying domestic, but with the way other car makers have slipped on quality control, I just don't want to gamble on a vehicle I will be using for years, if not decades, so its either Toyota, BMW, or Mitsubishi here until some other automaker shows a good quality record over the long haul.

As for VW, I personally would not buy one, after a close friend's experience. He barely got off the dealer's lot before the car had issues, stranding him at his workplace several times in one month.

+1 on Toyota.

I feel bad by not buying domestic, but with the way other car makers have slipped on quality control, I just don't want to gamble on a vehicle I will be using for years, if not decades, so its either Toyota, BMW, or Mitsubishi here until some other automaker shows a good quality record over the long haul.

Toyota is more "domestic" than the Big Three are.

Many of the cars that Chrysler, GMC, and Ford produce are assembled and finished in either Canada or Mexico.

Toyota is more "domestic" than the Big Three are.

Many of the cars that Chrysler, GMC, and Ford produce are assembled and finished in either Canada or Mexico.

A lot of Toyota trucks (the full size one I know is) are made in San Antonio. You are absolutely right about that.

I just wish the US automotive industry will learn (and make quality vehicles to last the long haul) before its too late, before China does the boot to the head thing to them. Chinese cars were considered jokes (and bad ones at that), but they are getting a lot better each passing year, and it won't be long before Chery (one of the bigger Chinese car makers) starts car dealerships in the US.

Would I buy another Honda? Yep, considering the fit :D - drove one and they're huge inside and well thought out.

We were seriously considering the Fit but we are leasing, and the rates were ridiculous. The monthly payments were the same for the Fit as for the new Civic (which no longer come as a hatchback), but the purchase prices were several thousand dollars apart. I don't really understand why they have a 6% rate on the Fit but 2% on the Civic!

That would be because of the high demand for the Fit.

. I don't really understand why they have a 6% rate on the Fit but 2% on the Civic!

The Fit is too popular I guess. I just got an email about great deals from Honda. Guess what - the trucks (Pilot and the Ridgeline) have great lease deals, so does the Accord... where is the Fit you ask? No need to promote a car that sells itself.

They are still made in Japan too, where all the 1990 civics were made and are still on the road around here.

Hmm, I guess I'll never really understand marketing... oh well, I'm glad we kept looking, as the Matrix will probably be a better car for our needs and the price was much better.

where all the 1990 civics were made

I had a 1988 Civic built in Marysville, OH. ;)

To the OP, grab a Prius, it'll be more reliable, have as much if not more interior room, and get better mileage than those other two. I'd nab one before even looking at the other two. The difference in MSRP will have paid itself off within ~100k miles.

edit- nvm, need to read before posting. :o

Don't know if you're also in the market for a used car, but you could pick up a B6 generation (99–02ish) Audi A4 wagon with a manual trans and quattro awd for about the price of a Rabbit or Matrix new.

I'm loving my Mazda5. Drove six hours the other day and didn't see another one. For me, that's a plus.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/thomps_on/postfront.jpg


looks big in this picture but it's not. built on the european focus and mazda3 chassis. dual sliding doors makes it sort of a mini mini van. i'm getting 25+ mpg combined.

chase: Don't forget about the Audi maintenance expenses, though. ;)

RB1-luvr: In Europe, that car would be called a "compact MPV." (MPV, or Multi Purpose Vehicle, being their name for a minivan.)

My brother has a Matrix and it's a great car. LOTS of room. I use it like a truck whenever I borrow it. It gets 30-35 mpg.

Another great option is the Honda Fit. This little car has an amazing amount of room, almost as much as the Matrix, I believe.

RB1-luvr: In Europe, that car would be called a "compact MPV." (MPV, or Multi Purpose Vehicle, being their name for a minivan.)

righty-o. my attraction to these cars probably stems from time spent in europe.

someone mentioned the Fit .. i recently advised someone to buy one and they are ecstatic with it. it has paddle shifters i believe. sweet.

FWIW, I'd rather have a REAL shifter and a clutch pedal, instead of paddle shifters and a +/- gate. ;)

FWIW, I'd rather have a REAL shifter and a clutch pedal, instead of paddle shifters and a +/- gate. ;)

i ride motorcycles a lot and when i'm not riding them i don't wana shift. now that cars (like my 5) have manu-matics, i'm in heaven.

The Rabbit and the Golf are different models, built using different design philosophies.

Golf: Sporty, lightweight compact car with reasonable fuel mileage and a relatively low price compared to cars with similar performance.

Rabbit: Essentially a barebones compact car, and although very inexpensive, is rather durable and economic.

This is a present description of these cars.

During the 70's and 80's, they were the same model. The Golf Mark 1 was sold in Europe, and it was also exported to North America as the Rabbit Mark 1.

Actually elsewhere besides the united states the VW golf was the VW rabbit and now to add hype to the new generation the US is calling their new Golfs rabbits.

Exactly.

The Golf and Rabbit are the same thing, and they have always been the same thing.

Well the engineer at work indeed drives a Mazda 3. I would definitely check out that car. It comes with a real shifter and clutch pedal if you want. I love the body of that car, looks really sleek and sometimes makes me think of evil. The 6 speed transmission is nice too, I would love to have a 6 speed.

Well the engineer at work indeed drives a Mazda 3. ...... The 6 speed transmission is nice too, I would love to have a 6 speed.

That's because he has the Mazdaspeed 3 not the regular one. His (much more expensive than base) Mazda puts out something like 220+hp (I'm not going to look), has lowered suspension and a few other gadgets in addition to the six speed.

The OP wanted a fair comparison so I guess we'd have to compare the Mazdaspeed 3 to the no longer available Matrix XRS which had IIRC 170hp from a 1.8NA engine.

Not really fair as a 1.8NA can't compare to a 2.3 Turbo but they both came with a six speed :)