Professional Cycling - Do you still care about the Tour after all this?

This tour was sooooo exciting at first... yesterday and today I lost all enthusiasm for the tour.... might just stick to betting on keirin races....

Yes.

Sadly, yes. But less and less.

Yes - but a bit less than before.

This particular TdF? I'm ambivalent.

Next year's? I'll be back.

i dont know

overall yes but this years tour... i just dont know

Yes. It's the cheaters I don't care about, and they're being bounced. Unless pro cyclists are really, really, extraordinarily stupid, next year should be a cleaner race.

Yes. It's the cheaters I don't care about, and they're being bounced. Unless pro cyclists are really, really, extraordinarily stupid, next year should be a cleaner race.
:roflmao:

That's what they said in 1988! And 2006!

Here are each rider's choices:

Be "clean" but irrelevant and have a really hard time getting a contract next year, much less one that supports you and your family.
Quit pro cycling
Do what you and everybody else has to do.
The worst case for choosing (c) is you're caught and forced to retire. Right off the bat that's no worse than (b), and if you get away with it for enough races to place relatively well, you're already better off than (a). You gotta remember we're talking about making less than a hundred grand per year versus several hundred thousand, or even a million or millions.

Also, remember the mentality of most of these guys is that they'd be willing to take something that they know will kill them within a couple of years if it will make them a champion.

None of that will change, so I don't see why anything will be cleaner next year.

it's the greatest sporting event in the world, with a wonderful, rich, layered, storied tradition.

Even these F'wads can't kill it.

This particular TdF? I'm ambivalent.

Next year's? I'll be back.

same here

:roflmao:

That's what they said in 1988! And 2006!

Here are each rider's choices:

Be "clean" but irrelevant and have a really hard time getting a contract next year, much less one that supports you and your family.
Quit pro cycling
Do what you and everybody else has to do.
The worst case for choosing (c) is you're caught and forced to retire. Right off the bat that's no worse than (b), and if you get away with it for enough races to place relatively well, you're already better off than (a). You gotta remember we're talking about making less than a hundred grand per year versus several hundred thousand, or even a million.

Also, remember the mentality of most of these guys is that they'd be willing to take something that they know will kill them within a couple of years if it will make them a champion.

None of that will change, so I don't see why anything will be cleaner next year.Anybody who can't support a family on less than a hundred grand a year is living too large for his salary.

Nevertheless, if you look at the history of the Tour, you'll notice that riders were cheating from the very beginning, so what they're doing today is within that vein. Still, a rider would have to be stupid to think that there's an upside to doping today-- even if it pays off in the short run.

This tour was sooooo exciting at first... yesterday and today I lost all enthusiasm for the tour.... might just stick to betting on keirin races....

yes i care about the tour but i've also know for years that they all cheat, and really i don't care.

it's the witch hunt that's ruining cycling not the cheating, which is an integral part of pro cycling and most other sports.

so let's call off the witch hunt and let these guys race.

ed rader

Absolute YES! And I am very happy for the clean riders.

And I am very happy for the clean riders.

Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.

:roflmao:
That's what they said in 1988! And 2006!


That's what they said in 1904!

Anybody who can't support a family on less than a hundred grand a year is living too large for his salary.

Nevertheless, if you look at the history of the Tour, you'll notice that riders were cheating from the very beginning, so what they're doing today is within that vein. Still, a rider would have to be stupid to think that there's an upside to doping today-- even if it pays off in the short run.
Kind of hard to think that given the lives of Lance Armstrong and even Ullrich, Riis, Hamilton, Flandis and Basso.

Yes.. but I need some more time to reconcile..

Kind of hard to think that given the lives of Lance Armstrong and even Ullrich, Riis, Hamilton, Flandis and Basso.If Lance doped, it's never been proven. Allegations, yes. And maybe the allegations are true. So if he doped, he got away with it, and there was an upside for him.

Where's Landis's upside? Hamiltons? Basso's?

I don't see it.

If Lance doped, it's never been proven. Allegations, yes. And maybe the allegations are true. So if he doped, he got away with it, and there was an upside for him.

Where's Landis's upside? Hamiltons? Basso's?

I don't see it.
What actually happened is immaterial. What matters is what the riders know, and they know he did it and got away with it.

Flandis, Hamilton and Basso all had relatively lucrative years in the profession that they would not have had if they had not doped. Flandis has a best seller as we speak. Hamilton had the deal with Speedplay, for example, not any of the also-rans.

By the way, you can add Heras to that list, who got paid tons to go work for Lance, then got a lucrative contract before he got caught. He's already talking about coming back.

Doping pays.

Oh, HH, just tell me wheels are round, water is wet, anything we can agree on... :lol:

Le Tour is catchind dopers - FINALLY. What has changed other than that fact? Why would my feelings change? I really don't understand this sentiment.

... Brad

Sadly, yes. But less and less.


x2

YES!!! Will still watch and hopefully next year will take my wife to see it live!!!
Let the players change..the play will still continue... hopefully cleaner.....
Le Tour, La Vuelta, Il Giro ..... they are great!!!

Yes.

Definitely. In fact, I give them credit for trying to clean up the sport and the tour, though the process has been poorly managed.

I hate to say it, I've been a TdF fan since I was 16, watching Lemond on ABC sports for the 5 minutes of coverage... but I wasn't really paying attention to this year's Tour even before the recent incidents. I lost my passion for watching the pro tours after last year's round of "amazing, groundbreaking discoveries of rampant doping." Academically I know they've been doing this s***t since the early days of the sport, but on an emotional level I can't continue to watch and idolize these guys who I see as betraying our trust. I know all the arguements, and I don't care... as a group I have lost any and all faith in the riders.

I don't think anyone will rue my lack of interest, I'm not even an amateur racer, but a part of my cycling interest faded with the foibles of the pros. I guess this gives me more time to ride...

As an aside, Bicycling's support of Millar, allowing him a forum after he was banned, just proves that no one takes this seriously. I know the reasons they purport for their support, but seriously, with all the "clean riders" in the peloton, why would a national magazine care to hear the thoughts of someone who betrayed his companions? How about automatic lifetime bans? That would be taking it seriously.

So nope, no more all day OLN (vs now I guess) TdF fests on a July Saturday for me.

Actually I think the current mess and exit stage left of the leader and likely winner, has added some additional excitement in that we now have a new race with Contador as the leader with Evans & Liephiemer in close pursuit. Plus Rasmussen was kind of scary looking - a more "regular" looking guy with a nicer back story may actually help the ultimate image of the Tour. Assuming that he too doesn't become embroiled in yet another scandal and all...

Yes, I still care. I will tune in tommorrow and the next and so on. I still will watch and listen next year (if I can).

I am saddened by the beating cycling has and will take because of the doppers, but at the same time I am encouraged that they are being caught. I wonder how bad it would be if other sports had the same testing regiment as cycling?

Yes, I care. Enough to help them through this sour patch. At least (as far as I know) even the druggies do not kill their families.

Yes I care but will this still be on TV next year? Two years I have had the opportunity to watch the coverage in the early morning before work and thoroughly enjoy it. The past couple days with the stage winner getting dropped is disappointing to say the least, and certainly makes me wonder about the "credentials" of the winner. And its not just cycling, the basketball ref scandal, or the Vick dog fighting or watching Bonds break the HR record, seems like its all tainted. I just hope they get it cleaned up and I can still watch it next year.

I'll still watch it all and next year too, but it sucks to root for someone or a team only to find out three days later they've been kicked out or asked to leave. I can certainly see why people would get frustrated with it.

Anybody who can't support a family on less than a hundred grand a year is living too large for his salary.Apparently, you do not live in the SF Bay Area.

Apparently, you do not live in the SF Bay Area.I'm from the SF Bay Area.

I'm not saying it's fun to live on a small salary-- I'm just saying people do it every day of their lives.

Of course.

That is a fantastic event and I always had large respect for every one of the (none cheating) riders who have ever attempted to be in it. I read an article a couple of years ago about the guy who finished last that time. He is, in my and in the author's mind, a hero too: He was able to hang in despite... And I guess that he was not cheating.

What am I trying to say is that if once, if ever, the sport becomes clean, the average speed will go down a bit, but everything else will stay: the magnificent roads and scenery to ride, tradition, panache, all. Think off F1 races. A few technical devices have been banned for safety reasons. Races are maybe not as fast as they could be, but they are every bit as interesting.

I also care about the TdF because that organization is the one that appears to be doing somewhat more than others. Other big races seam to be less diligent in the effort to clean up.

Finally, regarding the comment that the riders have been cheating from the beginning, I am not sure. They were using PEDs, however that was stupid but OK then because people did not know much about consequences. Rules have changed and they will change further.

Yes... As long as Contador and Levi battle it out hard to the end instead of just sitting back after being handed the yellow jersey. For this to be a good TdF they still must earn the right to the jersey.

I'm from the SF Bay Area.

I'm not saying it's fun to live on a small salary-- I'm just saying people do it every day of their lives.That's not the same as living "too large" for their salaries. But, yeah, a Pro Tour rider wouldn't necessarily have to live in such a high cost-of-living area.

<snip>None of that will change, so I don't see why anything will be cleaner next year.Because in order to keep the sponsors in it, this $h1t can't keep happening. He teams are going to have to be more aggressive in policing their own to keep the sponsorship money flowing.

It seems like this kind of stuff almost solves its self.

A couple of years like this and the money dries up so there is no big incentive to cheat so the sport is cleaner.

Me? I'm not done with cycling. (It is still cleaner than anything you can watch on ESPN. Well except the spelling bee.)

Yes, i will still watch. Because doped or not, it still hurts like hell to go up mountains that long and steep that quickly, not everyone can do it. Give an average joe like ourselves all the drugs in the world, and we'd still never keep up.

Plus i don't believe that this worst part before it starts getting better. I think the sport is starting to clean itself up.

I happened to glance at a tiny hint on the Rasmussen (thank you, jackass who posted a spoiler in the road forum) situation before watching today's stage (which I had recorded).

All I knew from the thread title was something happened with him, but not what. It wasn't long before I suspected something was up. I knew pretty early on he wasn't going to crash or blow up, and I pretty much watched the whole stage bummed out because I had a sickening feeling what was coming.

There will be plenty of people who will say "This doesn't prove anything.", but they seem more and more pathetic to me every day. Races should be won on the road, not in a ****ing courtroom.

I will keep watching. Cheaters will always look for a way to cheat or gain an edge. Most will get caught. My favorite sport is college football and OMG at the scandals that turn up every year. I still watch though.

Most will get caught.

I dought. Most will escape.

Anybody who can't support a family on less than a hundred grand a year is living too large for his salary.

Nevertheless, if you look at the history of the Tour, you'll notice that riders were cheating from the very beginning, so what they're doing today is within that vein. Still, a rider would have to be stupid to think that there's an upside to doping today-- even if it pays off in the short run.

Ahh, this is what I've been waiting for... the truth is, modern dope testing is enabling the brass keep better and better track of something that indeed has been going on since the beginning of professional sports, especially a race that is so demanding its almost cruel. I think the press is being completely naive about the Tours' corruption, calling for the race to be sacked for this year. This is absurd, are they asking the San Francisco Giants to postpone the rest of their season? Whomever is not testing positive should be allowed to continue to race, and may the cleanest best man win. It does sort of destroy the team element of the race, which is almost everything, but I think it's unfair to the individual cyclists who have come this far not to let them finish what they started. Corruption has always been part of the Tour De France. I for one don't let it kill my enthusiasm, look forward to next year, with or without the witch hunt :(

TdF is the Superbowl of Cycling. People will continue to watch it. Stateside the viewing numbers go up and down depending if an American has a chance or not. Unfortunately, many are starting to feel the tour is turning into a reality show....good racing with soap opera (doping scandals) thrown in. So there may be drama every day, whether it's on the road and/or in the lab. You have to admit, this year, minus the doping scandals, produced some good racing and finishes that we've haven't seen in a long time.

Read an article today that while European sponsors are more sensitive to and are distancing themselves from cycling because of the cheating, American sponsors look at it as a way to reach or expand their market share and name recognition in Europe, esp in France where the coverage is an all day affair.

Some bicycle manufacturers are starting to add/require or already have drug free clauses as a condition to their sponsorship of a team...Wonder if Cervélo has MR in it's ad's? BMC may pull out or insist on clean riders...they are still deciding what to do. In the end, many sponsors will probably come back but may not invest as much money as they have in the past. So the riders may look like a NASCAR car with all those sponsorship stickers and need 5-10 mins to give credit to all of them after winning a stage...lol.

Maybe Versus should televise more cycling events in their entirety, like they do with the TdF. Not every event is going to have DQ's with the frequency we are seeing in the TdF. Think they showed the Giro d'Italia this year.

I will keep watching. Cheaters will always look for a way to cheat or gain an edge. Most will get caught.

I doubt that even a small percentage get caught. Cheating can occur in many different ways, including during the training season, that affects the outcome of the race. I firmly believe that a large percentage of the field has cheated in some way every year for many decades. I also believe that no matter what the officials do, racers will continue to try and find ways to gain an advantage. The rewards are too great, and worth the risk in the minds of most.

If this bothers anyone, they should quit watching all sports. This is not isolated to bike racers. It permeates sports in general. I for one, still enjoy watching. I realize that drugs aren't magic. It still takes a lot of training, pain tolerance and some genetic potential to be the best. They still have to implement the proper race strategy to beat others who have also taken advantage in whatever way they think they can.

I loved watching Armstrong dominate. I wasn't so naive that I thought he did it totally "clean". I'm also not so naive that I think his opponents (Ulrich, Basso, et al) weren't also cheating where they could. I could still recognize the biking greatness that he had. If no one cheated, I still believe he would have won, and I enjoyed watching. I'll continue to enjoy it in the future.

Yes... As long as Contador and Levi battle it out hard to the end instead of just sitting back after being handed the yellow jersey. For this to be a good TdF they still must earn the right to the jersey.

They will have to battle it out to the end; Cadel Evans and Predictor Lotto will see to that.

Rabobank doesn't ride Cervelo bikes so Rasmussen won't be in a Cervelo commercial.

I find the Tour very exciting; towards the end of a stage, I'm standing three feet away from the tv, yelling at the riders.

From all the discussions about the degree of enhancement doping provides, I think the Stage 16 results show it. Contador and Levi stayed protected the whole way as did Rasmussen yet MR was able to counter each attack by the other two, then launch a monster attack of his own which Levi and Alberto could not answer. I'm not saying Rasmussen was doping, just that the difference in their performances is equal to that of a doper versus non-doper.

Ahh, this is what I've been waiting for... the truth is, modern dope testing is enabling the brass keep better and better track of something that indeed has been going on since the beginning of professional sports, especially a race that is so demanding its almost cruel. I think the press is being completely naive about the Tours' corruption, calling for the race to be sacked for this year. This is absurd, are they asking the San Francisco Giants to postpone the rest of their season? Whomever is not testing positive should be allowed to continue to race, and may the cleanest best man win. It does sort of destroy the team element of the race, which is almost everything, but I think it's unfair to the individual cyclists who have come this far not to let them finish what they started. Corruption has always been part of the Tour De France. I for one don't let it kill my enthusiasm, look forward to next year, with or without the witch hunt :(

I have the solution that will save pro cycling. They should take a lesson from drag racing, and have racing categories:
Stock-clean
Modified-one power add
Super Modified- two power adds
Top Fuel- Take whatever you want

Wouldn't THAt make it interesting again? They would run the race as normal and do 100% testing at the end...top clean rider wins stock, etc.

Of course I am kidding, but they need to do something drastic soon. This is getting to be rediculous.

Anybody who can't support a family on less than a hundred grand a year is living too large for his salary.


Remember those careers are not endless. You have to make enough money that you can stay afloat for awhile til you find the next thing to do. Not to condone things but ... there is such a thing as saving .. :)

We all should be PROUD of our sport not at all ashamed.
How may other pro sports really do anything about doping?
It feally bugs me to see the news people laying into cycling.
If cycling officials didnt do anything about doping the media woudnt be putting down the TDF
So I really hate this attatude of pissing on a pro sport because they are trying to clean it up instead of turning a blind eye like every other sport were money is involved.

Yes, I think a pretty good effort is being made to clean it up. When sponsors not only withdraw but sue the dopers (see Cyclingnews this date), it should help. If MLB sponsors had sued Bonds and his steroid soaked teammates when the MLB scandals started, things would get cleaned up fast, IMHO. Sometimes it is about the money, if appeals to personal honor and integrity fail.